One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[thedude]

Thats complete subjective. Buu was introduced in chapter 428 i think. Imu in chapter 906.

Onepiece is longer running and therefore we kinda forget how many has happened. CP9 was introduced in the arc they were fought etc.

You can lay more hints in a manga with 1000 chapters, then in one with 500, easy as.

But OP is unlikely to go to "uh, now this new enemy, and he can destroy the universe with a sneeze, lol, so...uh...Goku can too?" Dragonball was broken because there was no plan for the series after Frieza. And you can tell when reading it. OP you did see the top early on because it had more of a plan on where it was going.


(god I hate DB after Goku grows up...)

 

[grey matter]

To be fair, Law can probably one-shot the verse with a well placed anesthesia blade directly into one's heart if they weren't expecting it

Actually yeah, Law probably can. That dude is hax AF.
If he can get a clean shot, he can one shot anyone within his tier. Unless they can regenerate, like Marco for eg. If he can get a clean shot that is.

Anyway, my point was about the gap in PL.
IMO: Law, Kid and Zoro are in same tier. Killer a tier below them. Luffy a tier above them.
Nobody is one shotting anyone here (i.e in a "no diff" sense)

 

[thedude]

Actually yeah, Law probably can. That dude is hax AF.
If he can get a clean shot, he can one shot anyone within his tier. Unless they can regenerate, like Marco for eg. If he can get a clean shot that is.

Anyway, my point was about the gap in PL.
IMO: Law, Kid and Zoro are in same tier. Killer a tier below them. Luffy a tier above them.
Nobody is one shotting anyone here (i.e in a "no diff" sense)

Yeah, i'm kind of consfused with Laws power. like...how does it make his sword grow? At first, his power lets him create a "room", and in that room, he can manipulate people's bodies. He can cut and reattach them in any way he sees fit. Cool, that makes sense.

Now, he can make a sword grow? How??? How big is his room when he does this, how does it work? Oda kind of just lets Law do anything with that power lol.

 

[goldb]

I think the "kroom" is coated to the sword, so that's the only thing is manipulating. I mean, he can literally do anything with his ability; just need imagination.

 

[Wurstkuche]

Yeah, i'm kind of consfused with Laws power. like...how does it make his sword grow? At first, his power lets him create a "room", and in that room, he can manipulate people's bodies. He can cut and reattach them in any way he sees fit. Cool, that makes sense.

Now, he can make a sword grow? How??? How big is his room when he does this, how does it work? Oda kind of just lets Law do anything with that power lol.

Someone that is familiar with the German language said the K in k-Room probably stands for Kunstlich which means Artificial and
R in r-Room probably stands for Ruhig which means Quiet. So the k-room maybe give him artificial control over matter? Regardless, Law is officially broken lol

 

[grey matter]

Yeah, i'm kind of consfused with Laws power. like...how does it make his sword grow? At first, his power lets him create a "room", and in that room, he can manipulate people's bodies. He can cut and reattach them in any way he sees fit. Cool, that makes sense.

Now, he can make a sword grow? How??? How big is his room when he does this, how does it work? Oda kind of just lets Law do anything with that power lol.

Oda hasn't explained things quite clearly. I'm not really sure either.

This was the explanation I found most sensible:

I think Law's awakening work in two ways:

1. He gives whatever he coats the properties of his ordinary room. This is how the sword is able to go through everything and also extend, just like his room can engulf everything and expand. The bigger the (k)room the more energy it consumes.

2. The bigger the room, or in this case the sword, the bigger the impact of whatever technique he uses. With a larger room he's able to lift or slice a larger object, the same thing goes for his shock abilities as well. I wonder though, whether Shock/Puncture Wille are stronger Counter Shocks or Gamma Knives?

 

[hokageji]

Unless she.... gave 1 year of her own lifespan to give.... her brain life? So she has... wait how does that work....

Would she get 2 brains?

She doesnt have one.... big head but a tiny brain, she's basically Trebol there... that explains it...

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 10, 2022, Original Post Date: Feb 10, 2022 ---

I think the "kroom" is coated to the sword, so that's the only thing is manipulating. I mean, he can literally do anything with his ability; just need imagination.

I mean if Law can keep swapping his blade fast enough and create a speed illusion (courtesy flash from DCEU), you can use that as an explanation for such a long blade...
Its not just the blade length that was impressive. he was able to handle Big Mom's damage to make sure the injection shot will go through... I think Oda has handled Law's abilities very well...

 

[Pirate Queen]

She doesnt have one.... big head but a tiny brain, she's basically Trebol there... that explains it...

Bro you got it all wrong. It's like Naruto. He gets all those clones and they add experience with each new clone so when he destroys the clones he gets that many times more powerful.

She just gotta keep giving her brain life and then that brain life and the next brain life and so on.

She's so smart she's 4 parallel universes ahead of everyone

 

[McNuss]

Someone that is familiar with the German language said the K in k-Room probably stands for Kunstlich which means Artificial and
R in r-Room probably stands for Ruhig which means Quiet. So the k-room maybe give him artificial control over matter? Regardless, Law is officially broken lol

That's like stretching German to the max lol.

I initially thought Kroom would be derived from "krumm" , which means crooked or bent, "den Raum krümmen" means bending space (literally Room).

However, it is not read Kroom, Kurumu at all. It's Kuromu. Chrom. The German pronunciation of chrome. Regular Room is Rumu, so to Japanese readers the difference is apparent but it gets quickly lost in translation.

Chromium is used in stainless steel, which in turn is used in surgical tools.

 

[XXGenesis]

In terms of power scailing was does it mean that

Kidd + Law > Big Mom.

I believe her lost was a tad situational. However they maintained an advantage in the end even though she was Removed from the battle field & likely to survive.

 

[DeadlyBeast]

In terms of power scailing was does it mean that

Kidd + Law > Big Mom.

I believe her lost was a tad situational. However they maintained an advantage in the end even though she was Removed from the battle field & likely to survive.

I don't think we can say current Kid + Law > Big Mom. Unless you believe they would have knocked her out with their techniques alone (without any of the bombs) this would not be a true statement. I think currently its more like Big Mom >> Kid + Law in a straight up fight.

I think if there were no bombs and they were not on a floating island this situation would be more of Kid's attack sending her falling down into the hole Law made. And as we saw she was conscious until the end when the final set of explosions happened so Kid's attack + even one explosion was not enough to take her out. That means without the circumstantial bit, she would have come right back to a Kid + Law who are on the ground unable to continue fighting.

 

[AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA]

They we

In terms of power scailing was does it mean that

Kidd + Law > Big Mom.

I believe her lost was a tad situational. However they maintained an advantage in the end even though she was Removed from the battle field & likely to survive.

They weren't able to defeat her in a physical straightforward battle. Their job from day 1 was to prevent her from reaching the top which they did successfully sending her to the bottom. Their all wasn't enough to knock her out or damage her beyond a point where she's unable to keep fighting... In fact we see she has a lot of fight in her even as she was falling down... They outsmarted her and won their objective... It's a win for the duo but not in a power level sense. Still... They were both mighty impressive they can oh get better from here on.

 

[grey matter]

Kid and Law already forced BM beyond her limits like no one has in decades, and forced her to eat up one year worth of her lifespan.

What Law and Kid did right now is push a BUFFED Big Mom to her limits.

Yeah, they didn't straight up defeat her by the end of the arc.
Would've been preferable if they did it, considering . But, I suppose Oda doesn't want a Yonko to get defeated clean....yet.
Still, they broke her arms and ribs, damaged her internal organs etc. Their attacks were clearly dealing a lot of damage to BM. BM was really pushed to her limits.

We saw BM do things she haven't done yet. Eating her own lifespan to boost her power, combining her homies to create 'misery' etc. Her fruit has been fleshed out well.

Narratively they got their W as well.

Kid + Law >= soul buffed BM > regular BM

 

[DeadlyBeast]

Kid and Law already forced BM beyond her limits like no one has in decades, and forced her to eat up one year worth of her lifespan.

What Law and Kid did right now is push a BUFFED Big Mom to her limits.

Yeah, they didn't straight up defeat her by the end of the arc.
Would've been preferable if they did it, considering . But, I suppose Oda doesn't want a Yonko to get defeated clean....yet.
Still, they broke her arms and ribs, damaged her internal organs etc. Their attacks were clearly dealing a lot of damage to BM. BM was really pushed to her limits.

We saw BM do things she haven't done yet. Eating her own lifespan to boost her power, combining her homies to create 'misery' etc. Her fruit has been fleshed out well.

Narratively they got their W as well.

Kid + Law >= soul buffed BM > regular BM

In what world does Kid + Law pushing BM to her limits equal Kid + Law >= soul buffed BM > regular BM? By that same logic, since BM pushed Kid + Law to their limits and should be considered stronger. To me it should be Soul buffed BM > Kid + Law >= regular BM.

Both Kid and Law are pretty much done right now, they don't appear able to continue fighting any serious opponents. BM on the other hand seemed able to continue fighting despite any damage she received from Kid and Law's attacks themselves (she was fully conscious while falling despite Kid + Law's attacks). Her using life span to continue fighting shouldn't be held against her any more than Luffy using G2 to fight which also shortens his life span. Yes Kid + Law got the narrative Win but they could not take BM out with just their abilities and needed the bombs to finish her off.

 

[grey matter]

In what world does Kid + Law pushing BM to her limits equal Kid + Law >= soul buffed BM > regular BM? By that same logic, since BM pushed Kid + Law to their limits and should be considered stronger. To me it should be Soul buffed BM > Kid + Law >= regular BM.

Both Kid and Law are pretty much done right now, they don't appear able to continue fighting any serious opponents. BM on the other hand seemed able to continue fighting despite any damage she received from Kid and Law's attacks themselves (she was fully conscious while falling despite Kid + Law's attacks). Her using life span to continue fighting shouldn't be held against her any more than Luffy using G2 to fight which also shortens his life span. Yes Kid + Law got the narrative Win but they could not take BM out with just their abilities and needed the bombs to finish her off.

Cause Law and Kid did more damage, knocked her out of the island, ending with BM monolouging and cursing Roger (typical of characters in their losing moments)
The narrator says Law and Kid won.

You missed the point about using up her lifespan. Nobody in decades has pushed her so far. Completely different from Luffy who spams his G2

At best this is a draw for BM. Her not taking the clean L is Oda’s way of protecting the yonko hype.

But according to you "BM >> Law and Kid". Lol

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 14, 2022, Original Post Date: Feb 14, 2022 ---

"Law and Kid appears not being able to fight anymore"
Like we haven't seen that already!

If BM comes back, they'll get back up and fight again.
Characters in OP always look exhausted, then start fighting when absolutely needed.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Cause Law and Kid did more damage, knocked her out of the island, ending with BM monolouging and cursing Roger (typical of characters in their losing moments)
The narrator says Law and Kid won.

You missed the point about using up her lifespan. Nobody in decades has pushed her so far. Completely different from Luffy who spams his G2

At best this is a draw for BM.

But according to you "BM >> Law and Kid". Lol

I feel like your ignoring the fact that her falling from the island and the bombs were the deciding factors in the fight.

If they weren't in the sky and there were no nukes, it's 100% safe to assume Law and Kidd's final assault wouldn't have ended her.

They did win, but it's not like it was a clean victory.

 

[grey matter]

I feel like your ignoring the fact that her falling from the island and the bombs were the deciding factors in the fight.

If they weren't in the sky and there were no nukes, it's 100% safe to assume Law and Kidd's final assault wouldn't have ended her.

They did win, but it's not like it was a clean victory.

Oda isn't giving anyone clean victory over yonkos at the moment. That's final arc or penultimate arc territory.
We still have Shanks and Akainu who seem to be below Kaido by portrayal (discounting BB who will get stronger for sure)

At the very least Kid + Law collectively are yonko tier. Even discarding the bomb, the fight was already an extreme diff, leaning in favor of Kid and Law towards the end.

I can understand the perspective that it was a draw, or even people saying BM would have eventually won extreme diff if not for the bombs.
The issue is when it gets to blatant downplay territory like "BM >> Law + Kid"

 

[DeadlyBeast]

Cause Law and Kid did more damage, knocked her out of the island, ending with BM monolouging and cursing Roger (typical of characters in their losing moments)

Why assume they did more damage? If she is able to heal herself then is she really damaged. To me this is like arguing Queen did more damage to Sanji than Sanji did to him. The only reason that BM or Sanji got broken bones is because that is the only way for Oda to showcase their healing powers.

The narrator says Law and Kid won.

Yes I agree that they won THIS SPECIFIC FIGHT. But that does not mean they are actually stronger than her. BB and crew won a fight against WB but that does not mean they were stronger than him. Both of these wins were under very specific circumstances.

You missed the point about using up her lifespan. Nobody in decades has pushed her so far. Completely different from Luffy who spams his G2

What does it matter how often she has been pushed to this point? At the end of the day, she has the ability to boost her own power at the expense of her life span. I'm not denying that Kid + Law pushed BM to her limits and forced her to use a double edged sword ability. What I'm saying is that BM using her full abilities was still conscious and able to continue fighting whereas Kid + Law were not. The only thing that made it so BM could not continue fighting is the circumstances of a floating island and multiple bombs. By the point she cursed Kid + Law she had eaten an entire explosion that took a giant chunk off Onigashima.

At best this is a draw for BM. Her not taking the clean L is Oda’s way of protecting the yonko hype.

But according to you "BM >> Law and Kid". Lol

"Law and Kid appears not being able to fight anymore"
Like we haven't seen that already!

If BM comes back, they'll get back up and fight again.
Characters in OP always look exhausted, then start fighting when absolutely needed.

Yes I think overall at their current strength levels BM >> Law + Kid. Had this fight not been on a floating island with bombs, BM would have won this fight hands down. Yes she would have been pushed further than ever (or in decades) but her win is not something I would even question. I don't see any non circumstantial scenario under which Law + Kid defeat BM which is why I used >>.

 

[Pirate Queen]

The issue is when it gets to blatant downplay territory like "BM >> Law + Kid"

I don't think it's a hot take to say BM>Kidd/Law

Tho... in fact I haven't seen anyone arguing that besides you.

It's pretty clear to be the case because of the circumstances of her defeat.

She can't low diff them but in a straight 1 v 2, no outside factors... she would very clearly win.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 14, 2022, Original Post Date: Feb 14, 2022 ---

Why assume they did more damage? If she is able to heal herself then is she really damaged. To me this is like arguing Queen did more damage to Sanji than Sanji did to him. The only reason that BM or Sanji got broken bones is because that is the only way for Oda to showcase their healing powers.


Yes I agree that they won THIS SPECIFIC FIGHT. But that does not mean they are actually stronger than her. BB and crew won a fight against WB but that does not mean they were stronger than him. Both of these wins were under very specific circumstances.


What does it matter how often she has been pushed to this point? At the end of the day, she has the ability to boost her own power at the expense of her life span. I'm not denying that Kid + Law pushed BM to her limits and forced her to use a double edged sword ability. What I'm saying is that BM using her full abilities was still conscious and able to continue fighting whereas Kid + Law were not. The only thing that made it so BM could not continue fighting is the circumstances of a floating island and multiple bombs. By the point she cursed Kid + Law she had eaten an entire explosion that took a giant chunk off Onigashima.


Yes I think overall at their current strength levels BM >> Law + Kid. Had this fight not been on a floating island with bombs, BM would have won this fight hands down. Yes she would have been pushed further than ever (or in decades) but her win is not something I would even question. I don't see any non circumstantial scenario under which Law + Kid defeat BM which is why I used >>.

Are your 2 >> implying she can low diff them? What are you trying to get across?

 

[DeadlyBeast]

Are your 2 >> implying she can low diff them? What are you trying to get across?

Oh no I don't think she can low diff them. I use > to indicate A is stronger than B and will win most of their fights e.g. 8 out of 10 times, A will win against B (without any special circumstances). I am using >> to indicate that BM will win 10 out of 10 fights against Kid + Law (without any special circumstances). I don't think any of those wins would be easy for BM. I just don't see with their current strength, Kid + Law taking out BM in a fair fight is all.