One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[LadyVados]

ACoC isn't enough to beat Katakuri though, not if Katakuri can't be touched. Zoro has not shown the speed or ability to touch Katakuri.

 

[M3J]

This does not prove me wrong at all?

 

[LadyVados]

This does not prove me wrong at all?

Except it does ? You can beat Katakuri by just outlasting him even if you can’t hit him.

Big Mom doesn’t have the speed or abilities to hit Katakuri but she could beat him just fine. AdCoC Zoro is weaker than but still comparable to Big Mom (He could at least push a Yonko to High Diff like Yamato could). He’d just outlast him until his AdCoO runs out.

 

[Core D. Roy]

Except it does ? You can beat Katakuri by just outlasting him even if you can’t hit him.

Big Mom doesn’t have the speed or abilities to hit Katakuri but she could beat him just fine. AdCoC Zoro is weaker than but still comparable to Big Mom (He could at least push a Yonko to High Diff like Yamato could). He’d just outlast him until his AdCoO runs out.

Depends on how mochi interacts with swordsmanship. Honestly I don't think it's a favorable matchup for Zoro. Awakened mochi + futuresight is just too much for slash-what-big.

 

[LadyVados]

Depends on how mochi interacts with swordsmanship. Honestly I don't think it's a favorable matchup for Zoro. Awakened mochi + futuresight is just too much for slash-what-big.

You don’t think any swordsman could beat Katakuri? Not even Shanks or Roger?

 

[Core D. Roy]

Except it does ? You can beat Katakuri by just outlasting him even if you can’t hit him.

Big Mom doesn’t have the speed or abilities to hit Katakuri but she could beat him just fine. AdCoC Zoro is weaker than but still comparable to Big Mom (He could at least push a Yonko to High Diff like Yamato could). He’d just outlast him until his AdCoO runs out.

Yeah I can't abide by that. Zoro is still a tick below Yamato imo. Using his strongest attack and not even knocking Kaidou off his feet was not a high-diff feat. Yamato taking over directly by 1v1'ing dad for at least half an hour is definitely above that.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 18, 2022, Original Post Date: Feb 18, 2022 ---

You don’t think any swordsman could beat Katakuri? Not even Shanks or Roger?

That's not what I said, just that it's an unfavorable matchup to Katakuri.

 

[LadyVados]

On another note since Mihawk is the world’s strongest swordsman that means he should have be stronger than any other swordsman so he should have sword techniques with more AP than Kroom no ?

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 18, 2022, Original Post Date: Feb 18, 2022 ---

Yeah I can't abide by that. Zoro is still a tick below Yamato imo. Using his strongest attack and not even knocking Kaidou off his feet was not a high-diff feat. Yamato taking over directly by 1v1'ing dad for at least half an hour is definitely above that.

I’m talking about Current Zoro with AdCoC not rooftop Zoro.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 18, 2022 ---

He could at least push a Yonko to High Diff like Yamato could

This sentence was poorly constructed. I was saying that current Zoro should be able to replicate Yamato’s feat against Kaido. I’m not talking about what Zoro did in the rooftop.

 

[Core D. Roy]

On another note since Mihawk is the world’s strongest swordsman that means he should have be stronger than any other swordsman so he should have sword techniques with more AP than Kroom no ?

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 18, 2022, Original Post Date: Feb 18, 2022 ---

I’m talking about Current Zoro with AdCoC not rooftop Zoro.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 18, 2022 ---

This sentence was poorly constructed. I was saying that current Zoro should be able to replicate Yamato’s feat against Kaido. I’m not talking about what Zoro did in the rooftop.

No, I understood you were referring to Zoro as he was versus King. Points all still stand.

 

[LadyVados]

BASED ON WHAT?

1. Zoro is the Vice Captain so he’s automatically above all the other straw hats.
2. Yamato doesn’t have internal destruction Haki.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 18, 2022, Original Post Date: Feb 18, 2022 ---

No, I understood you were referring to Zoro as he was versus King. Points all still stand.

I just don’t think Mochi advantage is enough to beat someone who can push a Yonko to High Diff.

Especially since Ulti and Apoo and Kaido and Big Mom had no trouble beating Luffy despite his AdCoO which leads me to believe Oda has mostly forgotten about Future Sight and doesn’t really take it into account during fights.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 18, 2022 ---

Also @All the people saying Moriah > Wadatsumi…

Just compare their fights against Jinbei lmao !

Wadatsumi was comparable to Judge’s Son who one-shot a Pacifista. Pacifistas are much stronger than Pre-TS Rubber Jesus who could fight Moriah evenly.

Wadatsumi < Post TS Sanji >>> Pacifista >>> Pre TS Luffy ~ Moriah

Wadatsumi < Jinbe >>> Moriah

 

[Core D. Roy]

I just don’t think Mochi advantage is enough to beat someone who can push a Yonko to High Diff.

He didn't "push a yonkou to high diff" at any point. Also that doesn't matter too much when it comes to DF advantages. Like yeah in my personal tier table post-Wano Zoro is YC1+, but that doesn't mean he can just beat other characters technically 'below' him.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 18, 2022, Original Post Date: Feb 18, 2022 ---

Also @All the people saying Moriah > Wadatsumi…

It's because Moriah easily takes out Wadatsumi. I don't even get how this a point worth arguing. This is borderline parody of why the greater fandom can't stand powerscaling.

 

[grey matter]

Also @All the people saying Moriah > Wadatsumi…

Just compare their fights against Jinbei lmao !

Wadatsumi was comparable to Judge’s Son who one-shot a Pacifista. Pacifistas are much stronger than Pre-TS Rubber Jesus who could fight Moriah evenly.

Wadatsumi < Post TS Sanji >>> Pacifista >>> Pre TS Luffy ~ Moriah

Wadatsumi < Jinbe >>> Moriah

It's because Moriah easily takes out Wadatsumi. I don't even get how this a point worth arguing. This is borderline parody of why the greater fandom can't stand powerscaling.

Narratively, Moria >>> Wadatsumi.

But, Oda really screwed up with the consistency here. Like he has, countless times.

I mean, if we're looking at Sabody arc, one Pacifista alone gave the strawhats a fight comparable to what Moria gave them.
It gives an impression that a Pacifista is comparable to Moria.

But, later we see random veterans from WB crew taking down Pacifista, Boa Hancock taking down pacifista etc. As well as each of the monster trio post timeskip one shotting Pacifista.

Either the initial pacifista was an exception and incredibly strong.
Or it's just Oda screwing up the powerscaling as usual (more likely scenario)

Moria in his prime was strong enough to clash with Kaido and make him excited.
Even if he grew weak from getting and losing his will, he's still pretty powerful.
He was strong enough to take down Oars Jr, with help from Doflamingo. In what seemed like a no diff. And Oars Jr is a veteran WB pirate worth 550 million or so.

My point overall being, there is an argument to be made for Wadatsumi and Moria comparision......IF we ignore the narrative/portrayal.

 

[Fox666]

Narratively, Moria >>> Wadatsumi.

But, Oda really screwed up with the consistency here. Like he has, countless times.

I mean, if we're looking at Sabody arc, one Pacifista alone gave the strawhats a fight comparable to what Moria gave them.
It gives an impression that a Pacifista is comparable to Moria.

But, later we see random veterans from WB crew taking down Pacifista, Boa Hancock taking down pacifista etc. As well as each of the monster trio post timeskip one shotting Pacifista.

Either the initial pacifista was an exception and incredibly strong.
Or it's just Oda screwing up the powerscaling as usual (more likely scenario)

Moria in his prime was strong enough to clash with Kaido and make him excited.
Even if he grew weak from getting and losing his will, he's still pretty powerful.
He was strong enough to take down Oars Jr, with help from Doflamingo. In what seemed like a no diff. And Oars Jr is a veteran WB pirate worth 550 million or so.

My point overall being, there is an argument to be made for Wadatsumi and Moria comparision......IF we ignore the narrative/portrayal.

I think Moriah's strength was consistent.

Moriah was defeated by Luffy, and demised from the Shichibukai for being too weak.


When Moriah attacked Little Oars, he landed the finishing blow after he was struck by Doflamingo and Kuma.

Moriah was confident he would become invincible using the body of a giant like Oars... so by Moriah own admission, shouldn't a Oars be much stronger than him?


Post time-skip, the monster trio can destroy a Pacifista like they are nothing... Wadatsumi could at least resist a while against Sanji and Jinbe, so logically Wadatsumi is superior to a Moriah.

Going by Squard's bounty, the Whitebeard allies are Supernova-level. So it makes sense they can gang up to take down some Pacifistas.

 

[M3J]

Except it does ? You can beat Katakuri by just outlasting him even if you can’t hit him.

Big Mom doesn’t have the speed or abilities to hit Katakuri but she could beat him just fine. AdCoC Zoro is weaker than but still comparable to Big Mom (He could at least push a Yonko to High Diff like Yamato could). He’d just outlast him until his AdCoO runs out.

It doesn't help your argument at all. Zoro will be running away from Katakuri until Katakuri gets tired? Which doesn't make sense as Zoro and Luffy are different, in different situations. Zoro would keep trying to fight Katakuri and lose.

Katakuri can't hurt Big Mom either. Zoro's in no way comparable, otherwise he'd not have gone down so quickly and easily.

Also @All the people saying Moriah > Wadatsumi…

Just compare their fights against Jinbei lmao !

Wadatsumi was comparable to Judge’s Son who one-shot a Pacifista. Pacifistas are much stronger than Pre-TS Rubber Jesus who could fight Moriah evenly.

Wadatsumi < Post TS Sanji >>> Pacifista >>> Pre TS Luffy ~ Moriah

Wadatsumi < Jinbe >>> Moriah

this is not Dragon Ball Z. Wadatsumi was in no way comparable to JInbei or Sanji, either could have won alone. No "cOmParAblE"

Moriah would lose to Jinbei simply because Jinbei's ability to use the salt water, which is Moriah's zombie fruit weakness.

If Wadatsumi can control the water the way Jinbei can, then he'd probably have a chance against Moriah.

 

[McNuss]

The Pacififista are mindless robots and it seems CoA bypasses their defense entirely.

Because no way Pavlik is stronger than Pre-Skip Luffy that beat two Shishibukai. That would be like Dobon beating Crocodile. Only explanation is a cheat.

The fact you likely don't even know who Pavlik is proves me right here.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 18, 2022, Original Post Date: Feb 18, 2022 ---

Also I'd kindly suggest banning the Wadatsumi > Moria topic.

Like honestly, dude is a gigantic punching bag, quite literally, and the more he got punched, the more drugs he took.

Honestly, Smoker being a Top 30 character seemed like a more plausible claim than this. At least here it is clear that it is just the product of someone not remembering all characters.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 18, 2022 ---

Going by Squard's bounty, the Whitebeard allies are Supernova-level. So it makes sense they can gang up to take down some Pacifistas.

Since when became Bounty an indicator of strength? And Squardo is from Roger's era. 200M seems terrible.

Also if the Whitebeard Pirates are remotely consistent with the other Yonko (which is heavily suggested) then its impossible for Whitebeard to have had 50 Supernova under his wing. More likely, these are 40 Lolas, and a handful of Babanuki's.

 

[XXGenesis]

IMo ODA kinda created a plot hole or inconsistencies with the Pacifista……

It’s all about Portrayal. Pacifista with their introduction was a big deterrent for the NW Pirates of WB Crew & Allie’s….At best I’ll give ODA that they were handy for the strategy Sengoku wanted to implicate, creating a death box; Pirates in the NW that know Haki we’re having way too much trouble and couldn’t finish off the Pacifista’s.

For ODA to have them be one shotted by simple attacks and destroyed instantly.


We have yet to see the upgraded version of them. So scailing them is ambiguous asf. Their isn’t consistent showings for them.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Honestly, Smoker being a Top 30 character seemed like a more plausible claim than this.

OMG I forgot all about Smoker Top 30

 

[Crimson Ice]

1. Zoro is the Vice Captain so he’s automatically above all the other straw hats.
2. Yamato doesn’t have internal destruction Haki.

1. Yamato isn't a strawhat.
2. Zoro hasn't been explicitly stated to have this either.

Yamato has better feats than Zoro, along with better Haoshoku coating usage. Yamato is stronger.

 

[Fox666]

ACoC isn't enough to beat Katakuri though, not if Katakuri can't be touched. Zoro has not shown the speed or ability to touch Katakuri.

Yeah

Even Luffy, who is specialized in barrage of attacks, couldn't land a single punch for most of the fight... he needed Snakesman to defeat Katakuri, which uses crazy zig-zagging attack.

Zoro would be at great disadvantage. He relies on focusing all of his strength on single attacks, which is pointless against Katakuri.

Except it does ? You can beat Katakuri by just outlasting him even if you can’t hit him.

Big Mom doesn’t have the speed or abilities to hit Katakuri but she could beat him just fine. AdCoC Zoro is weaker than but still comparable to Big Mom (He could at least push a Yonko to High Diff like Yamato could). He’d just outlast him until his AdCoO runs out.

Wouldn't a battle of attrition make things much worse for Zoro?

Katakuri managed to keep his CoO impecable for 12 hours, while Zoro could only use Haki infusion for a few minutes before Enma drained all of his energies.

And even if Zoro is not using Enma, I don't think he is as good as Luffy at avoiding incoming attacks, so I don't think Zoro could survive very long against Katakuri.

 

[Chandra8386]

Sorry guys, but Luffy is clearly not stronger than BM and no scenario will support otherwise.
Even if BM was to be stopped right now it wouldn't be possible for the SH to defeat her crew.
So, if her crew is not against them, they are on their side.
If Luffy gets help, we have 2 possibilities:
1. An easy fight, which proves Luffy is superior to BM, but is utterly lame.
2. A hard fight, which is exciting, but proves that Luffy needs (a lot of) help to defeat her.
On a second thought, either possibilities seems boring, so I'm raising my bet on the escape!

Sorry dude..
You just have to see the end of Luffy vs Kaido, then you'll understand that Luffy has surpassed them both at the end of the arc..
Do not compare Law/Kidd with Luffy, Luffy is one of the few of the strongest that Kaido recognized..
Of course Kaido is stronger than BM.. and do not reason with Kaido's fight with 9 scabbards, supernovas and Yamato
Luffy had been running around meeting a bunch of enemies (you name it) to reach the rooftop, does that not use stamina??
So in the end, 1 v 1, Luffy vs Kaido is an equal match, and we'll see how he overcomes an emperor, "the strongest creature in the world, if a fight 1 on 1 with him, ALWAYS BET ON KAIDO"...
There you go, why i dare to say that Kaido is stronger than other yonkou
Even Whitebeard only got the title "the strongest men in the world", but one piece world doesn't only have men.. you got my point??

 

[McNuss]

OMG I forgot all about Smoker Top 30

Honestly do you think Smoker is immune to Hancock's powers. too?

When they clashed, she only broke the jutte but Smoker himself didn't turn into stone and also the way he was running around in Tashigi's body suggest he's pretty tough on these matters.

I think he and Hina secretly xxx and he wouldn't want any other because he seems very loyal.