One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[Crimson Ice]

no.

There is no argumentation here. The "Monster Trio" already broke for a while when Robin joined.

Yes.

The monster trio never broke; what on earth are you talking about. And don't give me some answer like she'll beat Sanji because she would because he wouldn't fight back.


Any Strawhat who looked more impressive than Zoro and Sanji have always been surpassed by them once joining, let it be Franky or Robin.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

Spoiler: ch1042

In regard to luffy kaido and oden
We are seeing more of kaido abilities , Oda hid all the transformations and techniques so that we would have something to enjoy in the final battle
It’s not that he suddenly leveled up

also Gahdamn Kaido is a master of all 3 advanced haki !?!?? Well damn he’s a beast of beasts

 

[Core D. Roy]

It's too small. The fact that you limited yourself to such a small pool of characters likely led to you making some very odd comparisons. Like how is Hajrudin, who high diffefed Machvise, as strong as Inu/Neko? Wouldn't that make Machvise close to Jack? Perospero roflstomped both Sulong Carrot and Sulong Wanda together.

Your problem is, you insterted a small pool of characters into a fixed grid with seven categories from Emperor to "YC4", and anything you've inserted must fit that grid. Once you'll add more characters, you'll eventually notice yourself that such a concept will fall apart. Organize the characters first, then make the tiers, right now everythinh below "YC1" looks very sketchy.

The idea to split the grid into several organizations is good, I am basically also doing that. It is rather easy to rank characters within a specific group.

Readjust a bit. Start with a a group on the left side that is large so you get a large pool to group tiers. I start with the Strawhat Grand Fleet, but you could also use the Big Mom, Beast, Whitebeard or Donquixote Pirates or the Marines. Then you compare the next group to that hierarchy, and so on. Get rid of groups like "Underlings", or "Others", as these only cause confusion.



And how should I elaborate on that now? Jinbe is stronger.

The Grand Fleet members were admittedly very difficult to place (Dressrosa in general is a mess), and like anything else subject to change. Lol I'm sure I'll change Ace's position another hundred times. Machvise had an ability that nullified Hajrudin's advantage as a giant. Perospero's ability is also just OP as fuck vs brawlers. Inu and Neko are strong, sure, but they are both squarely beneath Jack as they were trading off fighting him for days while he didn't need any rest.

It can't simultaneously be too small of a pool of characters, but also i need to get rid of the Underlings and Other columns?

I started the leftmost columns with the most "sure" picks for the highest tiers, because those further to the left should inform why those further to the right are where they are. Emperors and Admirals should be the benchmark for where everyone else falls below them, and so on.

The YC4-2 rows are more nebulous than YC1 and up, but that's how the series actually is. Until you get to the A-block tiers, things are definitely more vague and situational. The higher you go up, the more concrete power differentials get, regardless of situation. I'm just not trying to have 50 rows lol. Powerscaling shouldn't be too granular with a series like this.

Jinbe was definitely stronger than Sanji, but that is no longer the case. Sanji's upgrade is bananas bonkers.

 

[McNuss]

1. Monkey D. Luffy
2. Roronoa Zoro
3. Jinbe
4. Vinsmoke Sanji
5. Franky
6. Nico Robin
7. Cavendish (&Farul)
8. Brook, Sai
9. Nami
10. Bartolomeo
11.Tony Tony Chopper
Hajrudin, Ideo, Blue Gilly
Baby 5
Usopp, Chinjao
Leo, Orlumbus
Suleiman, Gambia, Boo, Abdullah, Jeet,
Nefeltari Vivi (&Carue)

ehh I have to place this on hold now, pls wait till I have added all of the Grand Fleet.

I don’t think there’s anyway to say jinbei is stronger than sanji
Once sanji awakened he started to completely dominate Queen

I have already elaborated on Queen. He isn't that strong. Jinbe could have done the same. He doesn't need vs Queen feats, he has vs Akainu and Big Mom feats. He made Who's Who look like a kitten, and has only shown the surface level of his abilities ever since being introduced. While Sanji will certainly power-up again, Jinbe will likely never.

I don't think that's the case

Despite her bounty, what feats Robin has?

Also look what sort of opponent she had in Skypeia, etc

She one-shot Pell, the strongest fighter of the Alabasta Kingdom, while Sanji never one-shot anyone. In Skypea her performance is also much better than Sanji's, who is fried eggplant for the majority of the arc.

Anyways not really interested in discussing Sanji. People are biased about him due to the lenght One Piece has been running and the identification he provides and the unfolding discussion is going to be the same as usual.

The Grand Fleet members were admittedly very difficult to place (Dressrosa in general is a mess), and like anything else subject to change. Lol I'm sure I'll change Ace's position another hundred times. Machvise had an ability that nullified Hajrudin's advantage as a giant. Perospero's ability is also just OP as fuck vs brawlers. Inu and Neko are strong, sure, but they are both squarely beneath Jack as they were trading off fighting him for days while he didn't need any rest.

That's what I meant with you have to add more characters. You only added the Fleet leaders, there's more members and beyond that the rest of the Colliseum fighters, the Donquixote Pirates and the rest of the Tontatta Tribe, as well as Kyros. They all appear in the same arc that had a take on various concepts of torunament arcs, so they are easy to rank, that's why I started with them basically.

It can't simultaneously be too small of a pool of characters, but also i need to get rid of the Underlings and Other columns?

No what I mean is, break them down into their actual groups. It is very easy to make defensible tierlist for a single group as the manga almost always presents their internal hierarchies. The difficulty is making these group tierlists fit together.

I started the leftmost columns with the most "sure" picks for the highest tiers, because those further to the left should inform why those further to the right are where they are. Emperors and Admirals should be the benchmark for where everyone else falls below them, and so on.

Yeah and that's a problem as it doesn't really help you much. If you use Admirals and Emperors as the benchmark, you'll end up having grouped a detached top tier that has no relevancy for the hierarchy below. Imho the best start are the Straw Hat Pirates since no character here is as strong as the other and you have Luffy pretty far at the top right now.

My plan is to actually avoid the Emperor Crews and Marines for as long as possible, because while they are easy to make a complete internal hierarchy of, it is very hard to compare that to others as a large part of characters are featless and only have their portrayal. I'll go through Dressrosa arc, then the Shishibukai and Worst Generation first, that should give me a solid basis.

The YC4-2 rows are more nebulous than YC1 and up, but that's how the series actually is. Until you get to the A-block tiers, things are definitely more vague and situational. The higher you go up, the more concrete power differentials get, regardless of situation. I'm just not trying to have 50 rows lol. Powerscaling shouldn't be too granular with a series like this.

I also don't want 50 rows, that's why I stick to Post-Timeskip characters, only take in their current form and avoid deceased characters.

But 13 Tiers are definitely not enough. You'll probably need double.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

1. Monkey D. Luffy
2. Roronoa Zoro
3. Jinbe
4. Vinsmoke Sanji
5. Franky
6. Nico Robin
7. Cavendish (&Farul)
8. Brook, Sai
9. Nami
10. Bartolomeo
11.Tony Tony Chopper
Hajrudin, Ideo, Blue Gilly
Baby 5
Usopp, Chinjao
Leo, Orlumbus
Suleiman, Gambia, Boo, Abdullah, Jeet,
Nefeltari Vivi (&Carue)

ehh I have to place this on hold now, pls wait till I have added all of the Grand Fleet.


I have already elaborated on Queen. He isn't that strong. Jinbe could have done the same. He doesn't need vs Queen feats, he has vs Akainu and Big Mom feats. He made Who's Who look like a kitten, and has only shown the surface level of his abilities ever since being introduced. While Sanji will certainly power-up again, Jinbe will likely never.

She one-shot Pell, the strongest fighter of the Alabasta Kingdom, while Sanji never one-shot anyone. In Skypea her performance is also much better than Sanji's, who is fried eggplant for the majority of the arc.

Anyways not really interested in discussing Sanji. People are biased about him due to the lenght One Piece has been running and the identification he provides and the unfolding discussion is going to be the same as usual.
That's what I meant with you have to add more characters. You only added the Fleet leaders, there's more members and beyond that the rest of the Colliseum fighters, the Donquixote Pirates and the rest of the Tontatta Tribe, as well as Kyros. They all appear in the same arc that had a take on various concepts of torunament arcs, so they are easy to rank, that's why I started with them basically.

No what I mean is, break them down into their actual groups. It is very easy to make defensible tierlist for a single group as the manga almost always presents their internal hierarchies. The difficulty is making these group tierlists fit together.

Yeah and that's a problem as it doesn't really help you much. If you use Admirals and Emperors as the benchmark, you'll end up having grouped a detached top tier that has no relevancy for the hierarchy below. Imho the best start are the Straw Hat Pirates since no character here is as strong as the other and you have Luffy pretty far at the top right now.

My plan is to actually avoid the Emperor Crews and Marines for as long as possible, because while they are easy to make a complete internal hierarchy of, it is very hard to compare that to others as a large part of characters are featless and only have their portrayal. I'll go through Dressrosa arc, then the Shishibukai and Worst Generation first, that should give me a solid basis.

I also don't want 50 rows, that's why I stick to Post-Timeskip characters, only take in their current form and avoid deceased characters.

But 13 Tiers are definitely not enough. You'll probably need double.

Queen is extremely strong but he’s an unorthodox and uncool fighting style
He’s an insane tank and got a lot of attack power
Look the beast pirates hierarchy relies on how strong you are , it’s simple as that
Kaido is all about strength

 

[McNuss]

Monkey D. Luffy
Roronoa Zoro
Jinbe
Vinsmoke Sanji
Franky
Nico Robin
Cavendish (&Farul)
Brook, Sai
Nami
Bartolomeo
Tony Tony Chopper
Hajrudin, Ideo, Blue Gilly
Baby 5, Stansen, Road, Goldberg, Gerd
Usopp, Chinjao
Leo, Orlumbus
Suleiman, Gambia, Boo, Abdullah, Jeet
Kabu, Bian
Bomba, Ranpo
Inhel, Cotton, Wicca, Baxcon, Daikon, Flapper, Bobomba, Mauji, Nubon, Pellini, Chao, Eikon, Chicory
Nefeltari Vivi (&Carue)
Columbus

That's all of them, next the Donquixote Pirates! Note that I assume that Chinjao significantly weakened down after Luffy hit him in the head again because that's what is implied.

Queen is extremely strong but he’s an unorthodox and uncool fighting style
He’s an insane tank and got a lot of attack power
Look the beast pirates hierarchy relies on how strong you are , it’s simple as that
Kaido is all about strength

I don't think he's uncool but whatever.

He is tanky but his attack power is subpar and he is not skilled in any field of combat.

The Beast Pirate rank strenght internally. His title only means he is stronger than Jack and the Tobi Roppo. They are also kinda anything goes when it comes to fighting methods, and Queen uses viruses. Beyond that he is a Jack with laser beams.

 

[Fox666]

She one-shot Pell, the strongest fighter of the Alabasta Kingdom, while Sanji never one-shot anyone.

Pell was weak

 

[M3J]

Sanji has better feats and was outright called the third strongest straw hate prior to the powerup. The monster trio is never getting broken up.

But that doesn't necessarily mean he's superior to Jinbei, especially if people didn't know Jinbei joined the Straw Hats officially? Is there evidence that he's significantly stronger than Jinbei?

We are seeing more of kaido abilities , Oda hid all the transformations and techniques so that we would have something to enjoy in the final battle
It’s not that he suddenly leveled up

We might see Luffy do the same too, I wouldn't be surprised if he trained different things off screen.

 

[McNuss]

Pell was weak

Pell easily defeated many billions, which are almost as strong as the frontier agents. Comparable characters to Pell are Chaka and Dalton, the latter being much stronger than Wapol besides his ultimate form (that was not shown in present time due to Nami stealing the keys to the armory).

Pell also survived a massive explosion. He was Alabasta's strongest fighter. By that, he must be stronger than Igaram who is agent #8 and stronger than Vivi who is #9 but easily handled the #7 pair so she must actually been #5 . Just because a character is minor doesn't mean he is weak. Pell is by no means anyone Sanji could one-shot.

 

[Fox666]

Pell easily defeated many billions, which are almost as strong as the frontier agents. Comparable characters to Pell are Chaka and Dalton, the latter being much stronger than Wapol besides his ultimate form (that was not shown in present time due to Nami stealing the keys to the armory).

Pell also survived a massive explosion. He was Alabasta's strongest fighter. By that, he must be stronger than Igaram who is agent #8 and stronger than Vivi who is #9 but easily handled the #7 pair so she must actually been #5 . Just because a character is minor doesn't mean he is weak. Pell is by no means anyone Sanji could one-shot.

Pell survived the explosion because he can fly and plot armor.

But Pell did nothing to prove he was strong. Same for his equal, Chaka.

 

[McNuss]

I listed what he can do. You replied with "nothing" and "plot armor".

Honestly whenever the Sanji topic comes up, people get completly unreasonable, to the point we now evade any discussion with two liners.

Yes, I was 8 years old, too when Alabasta arc came out in my country. Doesn't mean I still have to keep my biased perception from back then, because honestly that is the feeling any kind of Sanji discussion gives off.

Why can't Robin have been stronger? Because she is a girl?

 

[Pirate Queen]

I listed what he can do. You replied with "nothing" and "plot armor".

Honestly whenever the Sanji topic comes up, people get completly unreasonable, to the point we now evade any discussion with two liners.

Yes, I was 8 years old, too when Alabasta arc came out in my country. Doesn't mean I still have to keep my biased perception from back then, because honestly that is the feeling any kind of Sanji discussion gives off.

Why can't Robin have been stronger? Because she is a girl?

I'm confused are you non jokingly saying Robin is stronger than Sanji or Pell? Or both?

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

Robin was probably stronger than Zoro too at alabasta

 

[McNuss]

I'm confused are you non jokingly saying Robin is stronger than Sanji or Pell? Or both?

Robin was stronger than Sanji until Sanji got Diable Jambe. Pell is not stronger than Sanji but Sanji couldn't have one-shot him as he didn't one-shot any other of his pre-skip foes and Pell certainly doesn't fall out of this category.

 

[McNuss]

Robin was probably stronger than Zoro too at alabasta

No Zoro would cut her apart. Mr. 1 is a different calibre from all the other agents.

That's nonsense and terrible bait.

Just hating on Sanji for no reason...

WHHHATTT??

Come on. Stop this trolling its ridiculous. I can give any argument I want here, I'll only get replies that are evasive.

 

[McNuss]

Because it's a no sense point your making. No one is going to possibly take it seriously.

You can't be serious right now. I'm hoping it's a bad troll...

??????????

Aren't you just hating on Robin here?

Just because something is against the mainstream doesn't mean it is nonsense. Since when is popular perception dictating the powerlevel discussion? Heck, the most obscene fanboys all got banned.

I even started with saying current Sanji could beat Doflamingo.

I even said I kow how this discussion is going to continue and said I am not interested. This is beyond silly, I gave a lot of arguments, replies are that I must be a troll.

Okay, game for all of you:

Make a Tierlist out of all of these:

Alvida, Morgan, Buggy, Mohji & Richie, Cabaji, Kuro, Jango, Buchi, Sham, Johnny, Yosaku, Fullbody, Pearl, Gin, Krieg, Zeff, Patty, Carne, Arlong, Hachan, Kuro, Chew, Smoker, Tashigi, Mr 9, Vivi, Igaram, Miss Monday, Mr 13, Miss Friday, Mr 5, Miss Valentine, Mr. 4, Miss Merry Christmas, Mr. 3, Miss Goldenweek, Mr. 2, Mr. 1, Miss Doublefinger, Sir Crocodile, Nico Robin, Miss Father's Day, Mr. 7, Pell, Chaka, Dalton, Wapol, Kuromarimo, Chess, Chessmarimo, Kureha, Lapahn Father, Dorry, Broggy

I think that's all of the relevant pre-skip characters till Alabasta arc. I left out Mihawk, Garp and Dragon because unnecessary.

plus: Luffy (start of series), Zoro (start of series), Zoro (Loguetown swords), Zoro (Iron Cutting), Nami (start of series), Nami (Climate Tact), Usopp (start of series), Sanji (start of series), Chopper (start of series).

You can add more versions of them, but then you have to explain where you are pulling the power up from and it better not be thin air!

And the justify how Sanji can one-shot Pell.

 

[M3J]

Why are we comparing Robin to Sanji, Zoro, etc? Robin can be weaker but still beat them just because of the way they fight. For example, all she'd have to do is push Luffy into an ocean from afar, and she'd win.

 

[Fox666]

Robin was stronger than Sanji until Sanji got Diable Jambe. Pell is not stronger than Sanji but Sanji couldn't have one-shot him as he didn't one-shot any other of his pre-skip foes and Pell certainly doesn't fall out of this category.

I don't see why assume that the power hierarchy changed after Sanji learned a new attack.

Robin has no feats to compare with. She defeated Pell and Hana, who have no feats to compare with other characters.

It's simpler to assume that Robin has always been behind the monster trio, and with a bounty way too big for her.

 

[Crimson Ice]

But that doesn't necessarily mean he's superior to Jinbei, especially if people didn't know Jinbei joined the Straw Hats officially? Is there evidence that he's significantly stronger than Jinbei?

We might see Luffy do the same too, I wouldn't be surprised if he trained different things off screen.

Please, you think Oda had Queen say that for no reason? Not to mention, he was grouped up with the Strawhats in Onigashima. You're ignoring the intent of the statement at this point. And this was pre-power up Sanji too.

Any evidence? Sanji has better feats. Jinbei's best feat was pushing back a starving Big Mam while basically inflicting no damage, that or beating Who's Who. Meanwhile, Sanji, even before the power-up, was scrapping with Queen and, after his power-up, he basically med-diffed him. Jinbei has no feats or portrayal placing him above Sanji. Fuck it, let's be honest, Jinbei has nothing placing him above the Doffy and Cracker tier, let alone Queen or someone like current Sanji.

 

[M3J]

Please, you think Oda had Queen say that for no reason? Not to mention, he was grouped up with the Strawhats in Onigashima. You're ignoring the intent of the statement at this point. And this was pre-power up Sanji too.

Any evidence? Sanji has better feats. Jinbei's best feat was pushing back a starving Big Mam while basically inflicting no damage, that or beating Who's Who. Meanwhile, Sanji, even before the power-up, was scrapping with Queen and, after his power-up, he basically med-diffed him. Jinbei has no feats or portrayal placing him above Sanji. Fuck it, let's be honest, Jinbei has nothing placing him above the Doffy and Cracker tier, let alone Queen or someone like current Sanji.

Did Queen fight Jinbei or know how strong he really is?

I mean, Sanji attacked Big MOm with Luffy and wasn't able to inflict any damage either. We don't know how Jinbei would do against someone like Queen or Cracker, do we? Nor do we know if Sanji really superior to Doflamingo or not now. You're going by feats and portrayal, but Jinbei didn't officially become part of the crew until arcs later. There's really no evidence here unless you can show me Jinbei not being able to handle a strong fighter that Sanji could handle.

Before you bring up Queen again, I don't remember him fighting Jinbei.