One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[grey matter]

No, the clear implication is that his stamina is more than ten times higher than them. So what if he didn't beat them, Kaido can't beat Bartolomeo, almost no one can, does that mean Bartolomeo > everyone?

Not necessarily true about stamina.
If you actually go and read/watch, you'll know that the reason Cat/Dog switched wasn't because they were tired, but because of their stubbornness and massive ego.

Does Cat/Dog have an ability that makes them invulnerable? No. Weak comparision.
Cat/Dog and Jack engaged each other in straight up physical combat. And they stalemated. Which means, their combat stats are around the same ballpark. Not rocket science.

What matters is winning and the ones that did NOT win despite their advantage are Inu and Neko. They are the ones that had an advantage, not Jack, and they still didn't win. Not even when backed up by the likes of Pedro, Shishilian, Rody, Blackback, Giovanni, Concelot, Carrot, Wanda. Musceteers alone is 200 Minks. If Minks were actually close to Jack, than Inu and Shilian together should have been able to seal the deal, or Neko and Pedro. Its not what happened either.

There is only around 500 Gifters, and everything suggests Jack only led a split faction of them, as it is still around 500 after his fleet was sunk. Two headliners acommpanied him, Sheepshead and Ginrummy who are weaker than Brook, I mean honestly if Inu and Neko were 98% of Jack, you have to realize you blow any kind of scalings whatsoever. The entire Mokomo Dukedom couldn't beat Jack, two headliners and some maybe 50 Gifters if we are generous within 5 days!

Now you're making headcanon of how the fight, which was offscreen for the most part, went.

From what little was show, the clear implication from panels/animations was that Cat/Dog faced Jack in 1v1. And the underlings kept each other busy.

The manga/anime supports my position, not yours.

But honestly, I am losing interest discussing with you. Don't want to get insulted here. You know your argument is weak, else you wouldn't lose the tone.

Lol, it's cause your argument is literal bricks, to the point it's quite baffling to me. Haven't seen arguments like this in quite some time.

I'm fairly certain vast majority of the people reading here would feel the same

You're trying to argue that Jack >> the dude who he couldn't put down in 12 hours.
You know how long 12 hours is?? If Cat/Dog are that far below Jack, he would put them down within minutes, not unable to put them down in 12 hours.

It's one thing to argue Jack > base Cat/Dog. Which I'd 100% agree.
But on a completely different tier? Since when has a character who was on a completely different level, been unable to put down his opponent after fighting for 12 hours? Absolutely ridiculous

What I have to add: Even after Jack beat all of the Sulong Minks, he still faced the two Dukes, completly fresh, in Sulong, together, and they could not knock him out fast enough before Kaido intervened.

They aren't close. Jack is many times stronger and nothing else makes sense.

If you had watched the anime. The moment sulong Cat/Dog teamed up, they stomped Jack within seconds. Literally seconds. Go watch the anime.......

You really aren't making the point you think you're making.

Fandom focuses too much on who’s actually stronger? Imo higher tiers each can pull a win over the other, given small situational changes either combatant can win…

Jack is not much stronger than Cat Viper or Dogstrom. If he was leagues & miles above them he wouldn’t stalemate with them. Resort to chemical warfare to get the win. Ashura Doji is also similar in power to Jack. As I would assume most of the scabbards can fare pretty well against him or defeat him.

You mean characters in same tier can pull off win over others, based on situations? Yeah, definitely.

This exactly.
Seeing arguments that a character who fought another for 12 hours, is leagues below him, is completely new for me lol.

 

[AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA]

Fandom focuses too much on who’s actually stronger? Imo higher tiers each can pull a win over the other, given small situational changes either combatant can win…

Jack is not much stronger than Cat Viper or Dogstrom. If he was leagues & miles above them he wouldn’t stalemate with them. Resort to chemical warfare to get the win. Ashura Doji is also similar in power to Jack. As I would assume most of the scabbards can fare pretty well against him or defeat him.

Exactly! Ashura Doji tied in a quick and brief clash with Inu. He bettered Jack under same circumstance and yet they are all on the same tier. Saying one is miles or tiers ahead of the other is absurd.

 

[McNuss]

Come on don't use the anime in a manga discussion you know you have lost this one. Infuriating to continue.

But on a completely different tier? Since when has a character who was on a completely different level, been unable to put down his opponent after fighting for 12 hours? Absolutely ridiculous

All of the top tiers could do that. Heck Nami fought 11h hours with Cracker. Jack, Inu and Neko are all have kinda low-tier attacks for their tier, they aren't wmd logias so you get a drawn out stale battle. Yet the fact remains that Jack has more than 10 times their stamina.

So one side can use an ridiculous amount of advantage and that makes them equals?

All you do is pack slights into some kind of already lost argumentation! Sad!

Honestly I am outta here. Don't want to discuss this with either of you anymore. Wtf who am I that I have to be treated like this? What the heck is wrong with you?????

It's getting repetitive anyways.
Infuriating, infuriating.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

Roger and WB have the portrayal which puts them considerably above the current Yonkos, and yes Kaido too.


Old WB (in meds), was referred to as the strongest pirate by pretty much everyone.
Old WB, in meds, had haki on par with Shanks. Shanks is arguably the strongest haki user alive currently. And was one shotting a Jinbe tier in his sleep.
Peak WB is considerably stronger than Old WB in meds.


WB also has a higher bounty than Kaido. This is, inspite of the fact that WB is a mostly peaceful pirate, who doesn't fight unless provoked. While Kaido and his crew has the infamy of being the most violent crew, toppled countries' govt, involved in illegal trade and bio weapons etc
(Roger has a higher bounty, but you could argue that it's due to infamy of becoming PK and finding LaughTale, so I won't use that)


Characters mentioning all the time about how Roger owned the era, and then WB after Roger died. How WB could've become the PK if and when he pleased, but he just chose to sit besides the throne.


BM mentioning how she could've beaten Kaido, Shanks and even WB, if she had alliance with Elbaf.

So on.

There is a lot of narrative, statements and portrayal suggesting that WB and Roger are on a different level from Kaido. Not sure how people ignore it at this point.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 13, 2022, Original Post Date: Mar 13, 2022 ---

I'm sorry dude.
You can't be far ahead of someone and then fail to beat him in 12 hours! Just not happening, nothing to do with bias for good guys. If anything, I almost always cheer for the villain.

Why they didn't team up? Cause it has something to do with all the duke of day/lord of night stuff. Kinda stupid? Yeah. But it's what Oda decided to do.

It was confirmed in Ace novel that: WB Prime>>Kaido=Big Mom>>>Old WB.

Oh really? What quote confirmed that because the manga says otherwise.

The quote in the ace Novel all has very elite descriptions for each of them with really hype quotes

plus I think there’s confluence whitebeard earned the strongest man title in the world when he was younger and stronger and kaido had entered his prime

Come on don't use the anime in a manga discussion you know you have lost this one. Infuriating to continue.


All of the top tiers could do that. Heck Nami fought 11h hours with Cracker. Jack, Inu and Neko are all have kinda low-tier attacks for their tier, they aren't wmd logias so you get a drawn out stale battle. Yet the fact remains that Jack has more than 10 times their stamina.

So one side can use an ridiculous amount of advantage and that makes them equals?

All you do is pack slights into some kind of already lost argumentation! Sad!

Honestly I am outta here. Don't want to discuss this with either of you anymore. Wtf who am I that I have to be treated like this? What the heck is wrong with you?????

It's getting repetitive anyways.
Infuriating, infuriating.

Lmaooo come on nami fought cracker ?!?! Ya missing a very very big elephant in the room where luffy was the lead fighter and they spent most of it guerilla fighting in and out

Also they beat jack pretty fast when they entered suulong mode they off screened him in a chapter with zero injuries , it wasn’t even a competition they stomped his ass
He doesn’t have 10x their stamina , it’s about double or more , he has zoan recovery on his side

 

[McNuss]

Lmaooo come on nami fought cracker ?!?! Ya missing a very very big elephant in the room where luffy was the lead fighter and they spent most of it guerilla fighting in and out

I am being a bit cynical in response to someone obviously resulting to slights to support his otherwise rather weak argumentation. But the Cracker fight is a good example of how battles can end up long and drawn out, because the two sides got powers that resulted in that. Mink leaders and Jack don't really have large scale weapons of mass destruction attacks, they are pretty much vanilla fighters. Same as base Luffy vs Biscuit Soldiers. It just can get very long. Context in the Mink battle is, Jack fought non-stop while they had breaks - they had the advantage! So it is them that could not win, and not the other way around.

Mink Dukes could not win after 5 days despite being at a large advantage
Jack did not lose after 5 days despite being at a large disadvantage.

So how does that make Mink leaders roughly equal to Jack?

Also they beat jack pretty fast when they entered suulong mode they off screened him in a chapter with zero injuries , it wasn’t even a competition they stomped his ass

But he retained his conciousness, apologied to his boss, and retreated to get treatment. The Sulong Mink leaders busted him completely 2v1 and would have annihilated him had Kaido not stepped in, but he did step in and they did not, and couldn't before he did.

The Sulongs are strong but the entire rooftop Mink/Jack thing Jack otherwise went out as the winner, having annihilated the entire tribe, leaving the Scabbards for Kaido.

 

[Crimson Ice]

All of the top tiers could do that. Heck Nami fought 11h hours with Cracker.

I know I wasn't in this discussion, but this comment is sooo disingenuous; I almost laughed reading this.

 

[McNuss]

I know I wasn't in this discussion, but this comment is sooo disingenuous; I almost laughed reading this.

It was a cynical reply on him nitpicking on the 12h hours as if they were anything special and would totally make Inu/Neko look on par with Jack, which is not the case because the actual battle was 5 days and not 12h. Cynical because he resorted to slights and started insulting me.

What I am cringing from is how you pretty much leave a one-liner just to cyberbully me. Somehow I am the Devil or something, I don't know.

Pretty nasty from all of you.

 

[john ellis]

so luffy awakening as joyboy this early is a little bit off. But isn't awakening s joyboy a greater feat then becoming pirate king like surely "joyboy" luffy> prime roger?

 

[Crimson Ice]

It was a cynical reply on him nitpicking on the 12h hours as if they were anything special and would totally make Inu/Neko look on par with Jack, which is not the case because the actual battle was 5 days and not 12h. Cynical because he resorted to slights and started insulting me.

What I am cringing from is how you pretty much leave a one-liner just to cyberbully me. Somehow I am the Devil or something, I don't know.

Pretty nasty from all of you.

This is cyberbullying? LMAO BE A MAN!

 

[XXGenesis]

It was a cynical reply on him nitpicking on the 12h hours as if they were anything special and would totally make Inu/Neko look on par with Jack, which is not the case because the actual battle was 5 days and not 12h. Cynical because he resorted to slights and started insulting me.

What I am cringing from is how you pretty much leave a one-liner just to cyberbully me. Somehow I am the Devil or something, I don't know.

Pretty nasty from all of you.

You are dragging it. I haven’t seen anybody bully you here. Your not exactly
Heading down a friendly path with your tone, reflect on your post.

You were going off the rails about a point that is wrong.

 

[McNuss]

One. Last. Time.

I am not wrong. 120 is ten times 12. All of your arguments, this whole, "Couldn't defeat them in 12h", can be turned around into "Couldn't defeat him in 120h". And 120 is ten times 12. I can set up the entire same argumentation you are using, but my number is ten times bigger.

You are not changing my mind here in any case, not matter what you say and how often you repeat it, no matter how stupid you think I must be, and no matter how much you express that by slighting me. I am not interested in this conversation. Any means of trying to argument with here cannot bear any results and I pretty much pointed out my disinterest immediately and my discomfort further on.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

I am being a bit cynical in response to someone obviously resulting to slights to support his otherwise rather weak argumentation. But the Cracker fight is a good example of how battles can end up long and drawn out, because the two sides got powers that resulted in that. Mink leaders and Jack don't really have large scale weapons of mass destruction attacks, they are pretty much vanilla fighters. Same as base Luffy vs Biscuit Soldiers. It just can get very long. Context in the Mink battle is, Jack fought non-stop while they had breaks - they had the advantage! So it is them that could not win, and not the other way around.

Mink Dukes could not win after 5 days despite being at a large advantage
Jack did not lose after 5 days despite being at a large disadvantage.

So how does that make Mink leaders roughly equal to Jack?


But he retained his conciousness, apologied to his boss, and retreated to get treatment. The Sulong Mink leaders busted him completely 2v1 and would have annihilated him had Kaido not stepped in, but he did step in and they did not, and couldn't before he did.

The Sulongs are strong but the entire rooftop Mink/Jack thing Jack otherwise went out as the winner, having annihilated the entire tribe, leaving the Scabbards for Kaido.

But again luffy and cracker were around the same lefel come on man it’s a bad example
If you don’t get steam rolled in 12 hours you’re holding up well
Yea Jack was a bit stronger than them but they were on the same level

 

[grey matter]

@McNuss
I apologize for being somewhat rude, was late at night and probably grumpy.

I still stand by all the points I made.
Your points and logic are incredibly flawed. I'll try one last time.

1 . Fighting 120 hours straight is a stamina feat. Nobody here is denying that Jack has incredible stamina.
But, the fact is, that base Cat/Dog fought Jack to a stalemate in these 12 hours. Which means, the REST OF THEIR STATS are directly comparable. Speed, attack power, CQC, defense etc.

2. Cat/Dog didn't take turns because they were exhausted. They did so because of their massive ego and stubbornness.

3. Sulong fight ended instantly in anime. It was offsceen in a stomp, in the manga. Both pretty equivalent, the duo no diff'd Jack in their sulong form.

4. Why are you bringing up Nami and Bartolomoe? Surely you do realize that the comparisons don't stand at all.
Barto can be invulnerable. Nami did nothing but hide and provide support, Luffy was the one actually fighting.
These two are completely different scenarios from Cat/Dog engaging in straight up combat against Jack for 12 hours. So tricks, no hiding, nothing.

5. Why I used 12 hours instead of 120 hours?
Obviously because the actual 1v1 between Jack and Cat/Dog was 12 hours, before it was interrupted. So, if we want to compare pure 1v1 action, 12 hours is all we have.
And, you simply don't fight equally with an opponent far superior to you for 12 hours. Arguing that one is leagues above another in this scenario is absolutely ridiculous.

 

[McNuss]

But again luffy and cracker were around the same lefel come on man it’s a bad example
If you don’t get steam rolled in 12 hours you’re holding up well
Yea Jack was a bit stronger than them but they were on the same level

Holding up well is not the same as being around equal, especially if you can refresh yourself against a foe that exhausts himself.

5. Why I use 12 hours instead of 120 hours?
Obviously because the actual 1v1 between Jack and Cat/Dog was 12 hours, before it was interrupted. So, if we want to compare pure 1v1 action, 12 hours is all we have.

???

So Jack also magically refreshes stamina when they take turns? Thats not what happened. Jack should have gotten progressively weaker, Minks refreshed. Minks did not win. There is not a small, but a noticeable difference, otherwise this is unexplainable. Jack fought five days nonstop.

 

[grey matter]

???

So Jack also magically refreshes stamina when they take turns? Thats not what happened. Jack should have gotten progressively weaker, Minks refreshed. Minks did not win. There is not a small, but a noticeable difference, otherwise this is unexplainable. Jack fought five days nonstop.

Jack is an ancient zoan, which explains him fighting on and on.
And, eventually the stress was getting to him. Which was why he used the poison gas.

Let me ask you this.
Base Dog vs Jack happened in the 1st round, when Jack was completely fresh. Why couldn't a completely fresh Jack defeat Dog in 12 hours? Obviously because Dog's combat stats were around the same level as Jack's own

 

[McNuss]

Jack is an ancient zoan, which explains him fighting on and on.
And, eventually the stress was getting to him. Which was why he used the poison gas.

Let me ask you this.
Base Dog vs Jack happened in the 1st round, when Jack was completely fresh. Why couldn't a completely fresh Jack defeat Dog in 12 hours? Obviously because Dog's combat stats were around the same level as Jack's own

Yes, he is an Ancient Zoan but that is his feat. The others are not. Apparently, there is more stats where Jack might actually be superior.

Because Jack's kit has no damage output to quickly end fights. He relies entirely on his ability to outlast the opponent.

 

[LaGOAT]

What I don’t get is didn’t inurashi just beat jack not too long ago? why is this isn’t a debate?

 

[McNuss]

What I don’t get is didn’t inurashi just beat jack not too long ago? why is this isn’t a debate?

Because he could only do so with the Sulong coming back just in time.

 

[LaGOAT]

Because he could only do so with the Sulong coming back just in time.

Ok so what’s point? Are u saying that jack>Cat/dog

 

[McNuss]

Kaido, Charlotte Linlin (&Prometheus, Hera & Napoleon), Monkey D. Garp, Sakazuki
Kuzan
Borsalino, Issho
Monkey D. Luffy
Roronoa Zoro, Trafalgar D. Water Law, Yamato
Charlotte Katakuri, Marco
Alber
Eustass Kid
Killer
Jinbe, Capone Bege (&the Firetank Pirates)
Vinsmoke Sanji, Donquixote Doflamingo
Queen
Jack
Charlotte Cracker (new)
Charlotte Perospero
Scratchmen Apoo, Ulti, Inuarashi(new), Nekomamushi (new), Ashura Doji, (new) Kawamatsu (new)
Vergo
Pica
X Drake, Who's Who, Smoker, Niwatori
Franky, Basil Hawkins, Black Maria (&Wanyudo)
Nico Robin, Sasaki
Cavendish (&Farul), Pekoms, Pedro, Shishilian
Brook, Sai, Page One
Charlotte Oven, Charlotte Daifuku
Nami (& Zeus), Elizabello II, Kyros
Monet, Caesar Clown
Inbi, Fuga, Zanki, Jaki, Goki, Rokki, Nangi, Hatcha, Kunyun, Juki
Trebol
Bartolomeo
Diamante
Tony Tony Chopper
Dellinger, Gladius, Senor Pink, Lao G
Bellamy
PX-5, PX-7
Hajrudin, Ideo, Blue Gilly, Hack, Jean Ango, Surume
Baby 5, Stansen, Road, Goldberg, Gerd, Machvise, Kelly Funk (&Bobby Funk)
Usopp, Chinjao, Buffalo, Albion
Sugar
Leo, Orlumbus
Giolla
Suleiman, Gambia, Boo, Abdullah, Jeet, Dagama, Tank Lepanto, Riku Doldo III, Mummy, Meadows, Damask, Rolling Logan, Acilia, Spartan, Doughty, Gyro
Rebecca
Viola
Nefeltari Vivi (&Carue)
Kyuin
Kabu, Bian,
Bomba, Ranpo
Inhel, Cotton, Wicca, Baxcon, Daikon, Flapper, Bobomba, Mauji, Nubon, Pellini, Chao, Eikon, Chicory, Tarara
Hatchan
Hammond, Kasagoba, Harisenbon
Demaro Black
Columbus, Bariete, Miyagi, Tristan, Monjii
Ucy, Agyo, Uhho
Hera, Patty (new), Carne(new)
Johnny (new), Yosaku (new), Mounblutain
Disco, Gatz, Gancho, Mansherry, Grabar, Esta, Milo, Aremo Ganmi, Mukkashimi Tower, Tegata Ringana, Shin Detamaruka, Shin Jaiya, Manjaro, Chocolat, Drip, Cocoa, Turco, Hody Jones, Dosun, Zeo, Daruma, Ikaros Much, Hyouzou,
Mario, Nora Gitsune

I am saying something like this.