One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[afromarco005]

Didn't Brook blitz Kaido's equal Big Mom ?

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 2, 2022, Original Post Date: Apr 2, 2022 ---

What power-up will Zoro get to catch up to Luffy ?

Black blade ? Roger's Sword ? Some sort of demon-related thing ?

How do you keep up with reality warping? Luffy>Zoro for the rest of the manga.

I also have Luffy as the fourth Yonko now above shanks.

 

[Pirate Queen]

How do you keep up with reality warping? Luffy>Zoro for the rest of the manga.

I also have Luffy as the fourth Yonko now above shanks.

Luffy had Kaido stun locked with Hydra prior to G5. This is a version of Kaido that has Speed and Endurance I don't personally think anyone besides Luffy will reach EoS.

Unless you have FS, you aren't doing a better job than Kaido of reacting to quite possibly the fastest "attack speed" we have ever seen in the verse. Kaido himself was defenseless until he used it and there no clearer statement than that.

Yet we still have people saying FS is overestimate.

And Zoro was mentioned but you can plug anyone that's not an End Game opponent here.

There is already a high number of people that rank Luffy over people like Mihawk, which is Zoro's endgame opponent.

 

[john ellis]

@Pirate Queen it kinda is in context. Let me give an analogy. We currently can make devices with better resolution then the human eye, however as were viewing the object though the human eye it's just simply redudant that the imagine is more clear as our eyes cannot resolve the imagine in it's true resolution. Much like future sight won't do much even if u could see the attack there is no gurantee your body is capable of stopping it. Lets give a normal human future sight and see if they can dodge a bullet. FS only matters when the people have similar speed ties. otherwise it simply won't impact the fight much.

 

[Pirate Queen]

@Pirate Queen it kinda is in context. Let me give an analogy. We currently can make devices with better resolution then the human eye, however as were viewing the object though the human eye it's just simply redudant that the imagine is more clear as our eyes cannot resolve the imagine in it's true resolution. Much like future sight won't do much even if u could see the attack there is no gurantee your body is capable of stopping it. Lets give a normal human future sight and see if they can dodge a bullet. FS only matters when the people have similar speed ties. otherwise it simply won't impact the fight much.

Only if you consider attack speed and just speed as the same thing, which they are not in this manga.

Zoro is fast, but not a speedy fighter whereas his attack speed is outrageous (Lion Song, Etc)

 

[catagon87]

How do you keep up with reality warping? Luffy>Zoro for the rest of the manga.

I always assumed they were just trolling. It takes a lot of leaps in logic (into illogical territory) to get to Zoro >= Luffy.

StrawHa	Luffy	Zoro	Sanji	Jimbei
Power	9	8.5	7.5	7
Speed	8.5	7.5	8	6
Durability	8.5	6	8	6.5
Stamina	9	8	6.5	7
Skill	8.5	8	7.5	7.5
Haki	9	8	6	6.5
Overall	52.5/60	46/60	43.5/60	40.5/60

Law/Kidd Pirates	Law	Kidd	Killer
Power	9	8.5	7
Speed	8.5	7.5	7
Durability	7	7	5.5
Stamina	8	9	7
Skill	9	8	7.5
Haki	7	7	5
Overall	48.5/60	47/60	39/60

Beast Pirates	Kaido	Yamato	King	Queen	Jack
Power	9.5	8	8	7	6.5
Speed	9	7.5	7.5	5.5	5
Durability	9	7	9.5	8.5	7.5
Stamina	10	9	7	6.5	7.5
Skill	9	7.5	7	6.5	6
Haki	9.5	8	6	6	6
Overall	56/60	47/60	45/60	40/60	38/60

Big Mom Pirates	Big Mom	Katakuri	Jack	PerosPero
Power	9	7.5	7	6.5
Speed	7.5	9	7	6
Durability	10	6	8	6
Stamina	10	7.5	4	6
Skill	9	8.5	6.5	8
Haki	9	8	7	5
Overall	54.5/60	46.5/60	39.5/60	37.5/60

WBP	PWB/OWB	Marco	Ace	Vista	Jozu
Power	11/9	8	8	7.5	7
Speed	9/7.5	8	7.5	7.5	6
Durability	7.5	10	7	6	9
Stamina	11	7	7	6	7
Skill	10/9	8	7.5	8	6
Haki	11/8	7	7.5	7	6
Overall	59;52/60	48/60	44.5/60	42/60	41/60

**Prime & Old White Beard

My look on Commanders & Yonkou’s.
I view the Top commanders; 1st Mates to all be relatively close in power with different varying skills.

*Yes I do believe Kaido is stronger than Big Mom. Yonkou don’t fight because it’s a stalemate they don’t fight because they suspect another world power interfering while they are battle worn.

How is Kaido's durability not 10/10? And his speed? Dude blitzed future-sight G4 Luffy before Luffy could even react, and has been fighting for 6% of the total manga and still going strong while auto-piloting a literal island. IMO Kaido is 10/10 across the board. I think he establishes the baseline for a fully 10/10 fighter.

Also did you mean Cracker instead of Jack in BM's group?

 

[Pirate Queen]

I always assumed they were just trolling. It takes a lot of leaps in logic (into illogical territory) to get to Zoro >= Luffy.





How is Kaido's durability not 10/10? And his speed? Dude blitzed future-sight G4 Luffy before Luffy could even react, and has been fighting for 6% of the total manga and still going strong while auto-piloting a literal island. IMO Kaido is 10/10 across the board. I think he establishes the baseline for a fully 10/10 fighter.

Also did you mean Cracker instead of Jack in BM's group?

Is that 6% a real number? Jesus

 

[catagon87]

Is that 6% a real number? Jesus

Blitzed by the 9RS in chapter 986, up at the roof by 987.

We're on chapter 1046.
987/1046 = 0.9435
1 - 0.9435 = 0.056.
0.056 * 100 = 5.6%
Round up to an even 6% (because obviously he's going to get there). So yes, 6% of the total manga. The manga that started in 1997, with a weekly release schedule.

 

[XXGenesis]

How is Kaido's durability not 10/10? And his speed? Dude blitzed future-sight G4 Luffy before Luffy could even react, and has been fighting for 6% of the total manga and still going strong while auto-piloting a literal island. IMO Kaido is 10/10 across the board. I think he establishes the baseline for a fully 10/10 fighter.

Also did you mean Cracker instead of Jack in BM's group?

Because Kaido’s durability can be pierced by ACoA by the Scabbards.

I started working on the chart before Kaido did his FS feat. In my books that would only give him .5 increase. Kaido’s speed if mostly attack speed; Blitz.

In hindsight when other top tiers are shown. Maybe Kaido can get some boost to his stats. But this is what I think they are.

Yes I meant Cracker. Thanks I didn’t notice that.

 

[Core D. Roy]

I always assumed they were just trolling. It takes a lot of leaps in logic (into illogical territory) to get to Zoro >= Luffy.





How is Kaido's durability not 10/10? And his speed? Dude blitzed future-sight G4 Luffy before Luffy could even react, and has been fighting for 6% of the total manga and still going strong while auto-piloting a literal island. IMO Kaido is 10/10 across the board. I think he establishes the baseline for a fully 10/10 fighter.

Also did you mean Cracker instead of Jack in BM's group?

Thunder Bagua at least is a crazy fast technique, but if you're talking about their first fight, Luffy was too infuriated to use future sight because Kaidou had just destroyed Oden Castle where his crew was at. The difference was shown later on in round 2 or 3 when base (G2?) Luffy used future sight successfully against the same attack, and was able to dodge most of it but still got clipped.

The Bagua variants are definitely some of the fastest activation-speed techniques in the whole series, but that's not how Kaidou fights most of the time. They are the blitziest of the blitziest, but they are just one group of techniques in a huge movepool that Kaidou has.

 

[Rmstorm]

Thunder Bagua at least is a crazy fast technique, but if you're talking about their first fight, Luffy was too infuriated to use future sight because Kaidou had just destroyed Oden Castle where his crew was at. The difference was shown later on in round 2 or 3 when base (G2?) Luffy used future sight successfully against the same attack, and was able to dodge most of it but still got clipped.

The Bagua variants are definitely some of the fastest activation-speed techniques in the whole series, but that's not how Kaidou fights most of the time. They are the blitziest of the blitziest, but they are just one group of techniques in a huge movepool that Kaidou has.

G2 Luffy with FS in chapter 1037 made hybrid drunk Kaido thunder bagua look slow while he completely dodged it at point blank range..

Luffy is the definition of FAST.

Base Luffy(nno gears luffy) with FS dodged most of a base Kaido thunder bugua in chapter 1001.

 

[AINSOOALGOWN_SAMA]

The difference was shown later on in round 2 or 3 when base (G2?) Luffy used future sight successfully against the same attack, and was able to dodge most of it but still got clipped.

It was base Luffy without gears (obviously)

 

[LadyVados]

Honestly the latest chapters have proven that Dragon Kaido is really powerful. He seems to be on par if not slightly superior to Gear 5 Luffy which makes all of Zoro's feats against him on the rooftop much more impressive in hindsight.

(Heck Zoro did better than G5 Luffy against the wind blade attack)

As for Luffy and Zoro's EOS power level. I do not think the gap between Mihawk and Roger is particularly big since I don't think the gap between Shanks and Roger is particularly big.

And since it's looking more and more likely that Roger is just a pure swordsman Zoro surpassing him by EOS is not a stretch. Heck Zoro already looks like Roger, with his sword streaming trails of red lighting and everything.

--- Double Post Merged, May 5, 2022, Original Post Date: May 5, 2022 ---

StrawHa	Luffy	Zoro	Sanji	Jimbei
Power	9	8.5	7.5	7
Speed	8.5	7.5	8	6
Durability	8.5	6	8	6.5
Stamina	9	8	6.5	7
Skill	8.5	8	7.5	7.5
Haki	9	8	6	6.5
Overall	52.5/60	46/60	43.5/60	40.5/60

Law/Kidd Pirates	Law	Kidd	Killer
Power	9	8.5	7
Speed	8.5	7.5	7
Durability	7	7	5.5
Stamina	8	9	7
Skill	9	8	7.5
Haki	7	7	5
Overall	48.5/60	47/60	39/60

Beast Pirates	Kaido	Yamato	King	Queen	Jack
Power	9.5	8	8	7	6.5
Speed	9	7.5	7.5	5.5	5
Durability	9	7	9.5	8.5	7.5
Stamina	10	9	7	6.5	7.5
Skill	9	7.5	7	6.5	6
Haki	9.5	8	6	6	6
Overall	56/60	47/60	45/60	40/60	38/60

Big Mom Pirates	Big Mom	Katakuri	Cracker	PerosPero
Power	9	7.5	7	6.5
Speed	7.5	9	7	6
Durability	10	6	8	6
Stamina	10	7.5	4	6
Skill	9	8.5	6.5	8
Haki	9	8	7	5
Overall	54.5/60	46.5/60	39.5/60	37.5/60

WBP	PWB/OWB	Marco	Ace	Vista	Jozu
Power	11/9	8	8	7.5	7
Speed	9/7.5	8	7.5	7.5	6
Durability	7.5	10	7	6	9
Stamina	11	7	7	6	7
Skill	10/9	8	7.5	8	6
Haki	11/8	7	7.5	7	6
Overall	59;52/60	48/60	44.5/60	42/60	41/60

**Prime & Old White Beard

My look on Commanders & Yonkou’s.
I view the Top commanders; 1st Mates to all be relatively close in power with different varying skills.

*Yes I do believe Kaido is stronger than Big Mom. Yonkou don’t fight because it’s a stalemate they don’t fight because they suspect another world power interfering while they are battle worn.

The problem with this is that some stats matter more than others. Katakuri's 7 strength may not even be enough to damage other top fighters and his 6 durability would probably lead to him getting one-shot. Yes he has FS but so did Kaido and even Killer could land hits on him. Skill and battle intelligence don't matter if your attacks are too weak to do damage and your durability is too weak to survive. If Zoro fights Big Mom, he can at least damage her, his attacks pose a threat to her. If he's really lucky and manages to lend several of his strongest attacks successively he can kill her. He at least has an outside chance of victory, however unlikely. Katakuri would have no chance of victory at all, a Big Mom vs Katakuri fight would just be him running away and dodging and trying to survive as long as he can.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

If anyone is watching lmao gear 5 luffy fights too loose , gear 4 luffy with conquerors attack was a much more potent fight and it felt like he was doing more damage , gear 5 luffy kinda seems to be trying to figure out he fights and all
And again there’s no comparison to any of the supernovas to current luffy cause luffy is actually 1 v 1ing kaido

 

[LadyVados]

If anyone is watching lmao gear 5 luffy fights too loose , gear 4 luffy with conquerors attack was a much more potent fight and it felt like he was doing more damage , gear 5 luffy kinda seems to be trying to figure out he fights and all
And again there’s no comparison to any of the supernovas to current luffy cause luffy is actually 1 v 1ing kaido

I'm not saying Rooftop Zoro is stronger than G5 Luffy. Just that maybe the gap isn't as big as some people may have thought when G5 was introduced.

 

[Australopithecus]

StrawHa	Luffy	Zoro	Sanji	Jimbei
Power	9	8.5	7.5	7
Speed	8.5	7.5	8	6
Durability	8.5	6	8	6.5
Stamina	9	8	6.5	7
Skill	8.5	8	7.5	7.5
Haki	9	8	6	6.5
Overall	52.5/60	46/60	43.5/60	40.5/60

Law/Kidd Pirates	Law	Kidd	Killer
Power	9	8.5	7
Speed	8.5	7.5	7
Durability	7	7	5.5
Stamina	8	9	7
Skill	9	8	7.5
Haki	7	7	5
Overall	48.5/60	47/60	39/60

Beast Pirates	Kaido	Yamato	King	Queen	Jack
Power	9.5	8	8	7	6.5
Speed	9	7.5	7.5	5.5	5
Durability	9	7	9.5	8.5	7.5
Stamina	10	9	7	6.5	7.5
Skill	9	7.5	7	6.5	6
Haki	9.5	8	6	6	6
Overall	56/60	47/60	45/60	40/60	38/60

Big Mom Pirates	Big Mom	Katakuri	Cracker	PerosPero
Power	9	7.5	7	6.5
Speed	7.5	9	7	6
Durability	10	6	8	6
Stamina	10	7.5	4	6
Skill	9	8.5	6.5	8
Haki	9	8	7	5
Overall	54.5/60	46.5/60	39.5/60	37.5/60

WBP	PWB/OWB	Marco	Ace	Vista	Jozu
Power	11/9	8	8	7.5	7
Speed	9/7.5	8	7.5	7.5	6
Durability	7.5	10	7	6	9
Stamina	11	7	7	6	7
Skill	10/9	8	7.5	8	6
Haki	11/8	7	7.5	7	6
Overall	59;52/60	48/60	44.5/60	42/60	41/60

**Prime & Old White Beard

My look on Commanders & Yonkou’s.
I view the Top commanders; 1st Mates to all be relatively close in power with different varying skills.

*Yes I do believe Kaido is stronger than Big Mom. Yonkou don’t fight because it’s a stalemate they don’t fight because they suspect another world power interfering while they are battle worn.

When I came across this, I thought I was looking at some SPSS screenshot or something haha

--- Double Post Merged, May 5, 2022, Original Post Date: May 5, 2022 ---

Honestly the latest chapters have proven that Dragon Kaido is really powerful. He seems to be on par if not slightly superior to Gear 5 Luffy which makes all of Zoro's feats against him on the rooftop much more impressive in hindsight.

(Heck Zoro did better than G5 Luffy against the wind blade attack)

How come? Zoro was using a sword, but Luffy was not even in defense mode since his haki was mostly concentrated elsewhere. If anything Luffy's defense is laudable because it could take many slashes one of which managed to cut off Kiku's arm.

 

[LadyVados]

How come? Zoro was using a sword, but Luffy was not even in defense mode since his haki was mostly concentrated elsewhere. If anything Luffy's defense is laudable because it could take many slashes one of which managed to cut off Kiku's arm.

I guess you could argue that it was because Luffy was concentrated elsewhere but I was just looking at the feat in isolation.

--- Double Post Merged, May 5, 2022, Original Post Date: May 5, 2022 ---

I always assumed they were just trolling. It takes a lot of leaps in logic (into illogical territory) to get to Zoro >= Luffy.

Why am I always thought to be trolling ? I said that just after Zoro got AdCoC you know the power-up that was hyped up as the biggest thing since sliced bread and the thing that separates the strongest people in the world from everyone else. That's like saying Vegeta >= Goku after he unlocked Super Saiyan. Maybe not correct but hardly a crazy view.

 

[Australopithecus]

Ace's novel gave canonical information about the Yonko.

But the novel was written by somebody else other than Oda.

 

[BoyNextDoor]

But the novel was written by somebody else other than Oda.

he approved it though

 

[Australopithecus]

he approved it though

Didn't he also approve non canon movies also?

 

[BoyNextDoor]

Didn't he also approve non canon movies also?

different. the author and the editors had meetings with the novel writers. gave advice on it and supervised it. the author only said they can be imaginative with the personalities