One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[Australopithecus]

different. the author and the editors had meetings with the novel writers. gave advice on it and supervised it. the author only said they can be imaginative with the personalities

Source?

 

[BoyNextDoor]

Source?

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one-piece.com

 

[Hrathgrath]

If anyone is watching lmao gear 5 luffy fights too loose , gear 4 luffy with conquerors attack was a much more potent fight and it felt like he was doing more damage , gear 5 luffy kinda seems to be trying to figure out he fights and all
And again there’s no comparison to any of the supernovas to current luffy cause luffy is actually 1 v 1ing kaido

I agree that he fights super loosely, but his durability is up so high that he can afford to good off. I get the feeling they in his G5 form, he can't actually be killed. I could see him being beheaded and scream like a cartoon.. just before reaching up and pulling his head back on like Legos. If he runs out of energy, different story, but it looks like that can be willed past.

 

[DeadlyBeast]

If anyone is watching lmao gear 5 luffy fights too loose , gear 4 luffy with conquerors attack was a much more potent fight and it felt like he was doing more damage , gear 5 luffy kinda seems to be trying to figure out he fights and all
And again there’s no comparison to any of the supernovas to current luffy cause luffy is actually 1 v 1ing kaido

I'm waiting until he uses G5 again in the future to determine if the loose fighting style is inherent to the mode and will always stick around vs Luffy is just experiencing a learning curve. I hope it's the latter but I fear Oda may be going for the former. Hard to feel tension when Luffy is fighting this way but I hope Oda ends up managing it well.

 

[thedude]

StrawHa	Luffy	Zoro	Sanji	Jimbei
Power	9	8.5	7.5	7
Speed	8.5	7.5	8	6
Durability	8.5	6	8	6.5
Stamina	9	8	6.5	7
Skill	8.5	8	7.5	7.5
Haki	9	8	6	6.5
Overall	52.5/60	46/60	43.5/60	40.5/60

Law/Kidd Pirates	Law	Kidd	Killer
Power	9	8.5	7
Speed	8.5	7.5	7
Durability	7	7	5.5
Stamina	8	9	7
Skill	9	8	7.5
Haki	7	7	5
Overall	48.5/60	47/60	39/60

Beast Pirates	Kaido	Yamato	King	Queen	Jack
Power	9.5	8	8	7	6.5
Speed	9	7.5	7.5	5.5	5
Durability	9	7	9.5	8.5	7.5
Stamina	10	9	7	6.5	7.5
Skill	9	7.5	7	6.5	6
Haki	9.5	8	6	6	6
Overall	56/60	47/60	45/60	40/60	38/60

Big Mom Pirates	Big Mom	Katakuri	Cracker	PerosPero
Power	9	7.5	7	6.5
Speed	7.5	9	7	6
Durability	10	6	8	6
Stamina	10	7.5	4	6
Skill	9	8.5	6.5	8
Haki	9	8	7	5
Overall	54.5/60	46.5/60	39.5/60	37.5/60

WBP	PWB/OWB	Marco	Ace	Vista	Jozu
Power	11/9	8	8	7.5	7
Speed	9/7.5	8	7.5	7.5	6
Durability	7.5	10	7	6	9
Stamina	11	7	7	6	7
Skill	10/9	8	7.5	8	6
Haki	11/8	7	7.5	7	6
Overall	59;52/60	48/60	44.5/60	42/60	41/60

**Prime & Old White Beard

My look on Commanders & Yonkou’s.
I view the Top commanders; 1st Mates to all be relatively close in power with different varying skills.

*Yes I do believe Kaido is stronger than Big Mom. Yonkou don’t fight because it’s a stalemate they don’t fight because they suspect another world power interfering while they are battle worn.

Sanji goes invisible with how fast he is, so speed is basically a 9.5 (assuming that Kizaru is 10). Skill, Sanji and Zoro are more skilled than Luffy. He has strength, but Zoro's dedication to the sword, Sanjis to his kicks, are more skillful than Luffy. Zoro especially. I think Katakuri is also crazy skilled with what he showed.

 

[kkck]

I'm waiting until he uses G5 again in the future to determine if the loose fighting style is inherent to the mode and will always stick around vs Luffy is just experiencing a learning curve. I hope it's the latter but I fear Oda may be going for the former. Hard to feel tension when Luffy is fighting this way but I hope Oda ends up managing it well.

I would argue probably both. There is definitely a learning curve to consider, along with mastering the form enough to use it casually, but going forward it's pretty likely luffy will continue to fight in this seemingly random manner. I don't agree with the sentiment that somehow gear 5 is less potent than gear 4. Because what gear 5 allows luffy is beyond absurd. Gear 5 transcends the limitations of the other forms. It gives luffy the benefits of all other gears without any of their weaknesses. Gear 5 so far gives luffy the following abilities:

1.- He can simply will his body to stretch in any way.
2.- He can turn his environment into rubber.
3.- Cartoon physics.

The first one is why luffy is able to basically turn into giant. I wouldn't be surprised if he can eventually shrink as well an go full antman on unsuspecting fools.. But willing his body to stretch means he doesn't have to pump air into his bones or muscles. Basically ridding himself of a taxing factor in gear 3 and even the haki overuse characteristic of gear 4 (since gear 4 required haki to maintain the form). Now he can simply will his bones and muscles to stretch into giant limbs. He can even will his body's elasticity and characteristic to change so that hitting with blunt damage is even less effective than before. Like when kaido used his weapon against his arm and it just stretched further... Of course, even if this solves luffy's haki overuse to a great extent the form still has important stamina drainage which he has to get accustomed to. What this means is that luffy has all the perks of his previous gears simultaneously with none of the drawbacks (or at worst different, more manageable drawbacks).

 

[Rmstorm]

Sanji goes invisible with how fast he is, so speed is basically a 9.5 (assuming that Kizaru is 10). Skill, Sanji and Zoro are more skilled than Luffy. He has strength, but Zoro's dedication to the sword, Sanjis to his kicks, are more skillful than Luffy. Zoro especially. I think Katakuri is also crazy skilled with what he showed.

No, Luffy is much more skilled than Zoro and Sanji .Luffy HAS NO FIGHTING STYLE, WAS NOT TAUGHT WEAPONS USAGE or professional training, but still beats people with martial arts and weapons usage training WHILE UNARMED.

Meaning Luffy's combat skill is FAR higher than Anyone else EXCEPT Garp.

Luffy having all advanced versions of 3 Haki proves that.

Luffy even fused his Devil Fryit and Armament haki creating = Rubberized Haki.

ALL in ALL

Luffy has no Weapon to fight with aka Fights Unarmed

Luffy did not recieve proffessional training like Zoro or Sanji as a kid

Luffy is mainly self taught wih the exception of Rayleigh teaching him basic haki.

Luffy has all 3 Versions of Advanced Haki

 

[catagon87]

I'm waiting until he uses G5 again in the future to determine if the loose fighting style is inherent to the mode and will always stick around vs Luffy is just experiencing a learning curve. I hope it's the latter but I fear Oda may be going for the former. Hard to feel tension when Luffy is fighting this way but I hope Oda ends up managing it well.

I actually feel like it'll add to some experiences. You know how serious Akainu is? Imagine him with his eyes popping out, and Luffy rubberizing him with blows, and doing things like bouncing his magma-meteors back toward him.

I would argue probably both. There is definitely a learning curve to consider, along with mastering the form enough to use it casually, but going forward it's pretty likely luffy will continue to fight in this seemingly random manner. I don't agree with the sentiment that somehow gear 5 is less potent than gear 4. Because what gear 5 allows luffy is beyond absurd. Gear 5 transcends the limitations of the other forms. It gives luffy the benefits of all other gears without any of their weaknesses. Gear 5 so far gives luffy the following abilities:

1.- He can simply will his body to stretch in any way.
2.- He can turn his environment into rubber.
3.- Cartoon physics.

The first one is why luffy is able to basically turn into giant. I wouldn't be surprised if he can eventually shrink as well an go full antman on unsuspecting fools.. But willing his body to stretch means he doesn't have to pump air into his bones or muscles. Basically ridding himself of a taxing factor in gear 3 and even the haki overuse characteristic of gear 4 (since gear 4 required haki to maintain the form). Now he can simply will his bones and muscles to stretch into giant limbs. He can even will his body's elasticity and characteristic to change so that hitting with blunt damage is even less effective than before. Like when kaido used his weapon against his arm and it just stretched further... Of course, even if this solves luffy's haki overuse to a great extent the form still has important stamina drainage which he has to get accustomed to. What this means is that luffy has all the perks of his previous gears simultaneously with none of the drawbacks (or at worst different, more manageable drawbacks).

One thing I wonder is why Luffy, who was dodging blows from Kaido before (without even using G4), now seems to take every hit head on. I wonder if he has a way of storing damage, or something? It's either that, or that he's so rubbery now that even Kaido's blows don't do much against him and most of his current state is related to the stamina drain as you mentioned.

 

[Australopithecus]

One thing I wonder is why Luffy, who was dodging blows from Kaido before (without even using G4), now seems to take every hit head on. I wonder if he has a way of storing damage, or something? It's either that, or that he's so rubbery now that even Kaido's blows don't do much against him and most of his current state is related to the stamina drain as you mentioned.

There was a time when not only was he warned about the coming hit, but he also noticed it, yet he still let Kaido hit him.

Spoiler

I took it as Luffy becoming so powerful that he started fooling around a lot. This reminds me of when Gotrunks was fighting Buu. He was very powerful, but he kept fooling around, taking hits and stuff. Maybe it is part of the devil fruit's personality to fool around.

 

[DeadlyBeast]

I actually feel like it'll add to some experiences. You know how serious Akainu is? Imagine him with his eyes popping out, and Luffy rubberizing him with blows, and doing things like bouncing his magma-meteors back toward him.

Oh I'm thoroughly enjoying his goofy powers and abilities. I think his fight with Akainu will be hilarious in moments like that. What I think I won't enjoy if it's consistent is his decrease in more formal fighting habits e.g. dodging attacks, looking for openings etc. In G5 Luffy seems to be so confident in himself he doesn't appear to take things seriously enough. He doesn't doge as effectively, he doesn't counter as effectively, he just basically is like IDGAF hit me etc. Though its cool to see he can tank hits, I also hope we can get a more serious use of his power. Maybe it will take someone stronger than Kaido to push him into it but for now all we can do is wait.

--- Double Post Merged, May 7, 2022, Original Post Date: May 7, 2022 ---

I would argue probably both. There is definitely a learning curve to consider, along with mastering the form enough to use it casually, but going forward it's pretty likely luffy will continue to fight in this seemingly random manner. I don't agree with the sentiment that somehow gear 5 is less potent than gear 4. Because what gear 5 allows luffy is beyond absurd. Gear 5 transcends the limitations of the other forms. It gives luffy the benefits of all other gears without any of their weaknesses. Gear 5 so far gives luffy the following abilities:

1.- He can simply will his body to stretch in any way.
2.- He can turn his environment into rubber.
3.- Cartoon physics.

The first one is why luffy is able to basically turn into giant. I wouldn't be surprised if he can eventually shrink as well an go full antman on unsuspecting fools.. But willing his body to stretch means he doesn't have to pump air into his bones or muscles. Basically ridding himself of a taxing factor in gear 3 and even the haki overuse characteristic of gear 4 (since gear 4 required haki to maintain the form). Now he can simply will his bones and muscles to stretch into giant limbs. He can even will his body's elasticity and characteristic to change so that hitting with blunt damage is even less effective than before. Like when kaido used his weapon against his arm and it just stretched further... Of course, even if this solves luffy's haki overuse to a great extent the form still has important stamina drainage which he has to get accustomed to. What this means is that luffy has all the perks of his previous gears simultaneously with none of the drawbacks (or at worst different, more manageable drawbacks).

Oh yeah I fully agree that G5 is a much stronger version of everything he has been able to do. He definitely has some learning curve especially to overcome the energy consumption. I just don't want him to be as overconfident in the future with G5 e.g. not dodging attacks etc. At the moment I just think Luffy in G5 needs someone stronger than Kaido to push him to the limits. I want Luffy to dodge in G5 because he is afraid of the damage potential. I like fights that have more back and forth tactics to them vs just seeing who can tank the most hits.

 

[Sachsenhesse]

No, Luffy is much more skilled than Zoro and Sanji .Luffy HAS NO FIGHTING STYLE, WAS NOT TAUGHT WEAPONS USAGE or professional training, but still beats people with martial arts and weapons usage training WHILE UNARMED.

Meaning Luffy's combat skill is FAR higher than Anyone else EXCEPT Garp.

Luffy having all advanced versions of 3 Haki proves that.

Luffy even fused his Devil Fryit and Armament haki creating = Rubberized Haki.

ALL in ALL

Luffy has no Weapon to fight with aka Fights Unarmed

Luffy did not recieve proffessional training like Zoro or Sanji as a kid

Luffy is mainly self taught wih the exception of Rayleigh teaching him basic haki.

Luffy has all 3 Versions of Advanced Haki

Didnt Garp threw him into jungles and over cliffs to make him strong?

His weapon is his devilfruit.

He has learned longer under rayleigh then his journey on the sea is.

 

[LadyVados]

I would argue probably both. There is definitely a learning curve to consider, along with mastering the form enough to use it casually, but going forward it's pretty likely luffy will continue to fight in this seemingly random manner. I don't agree with the sentiment that somehow gear 5 is less potent than gear 4. Because what gear 5 allows luffy is beyond absurd. Gear 5 transcends the limitations of the other forms. It gives luffy the benefits of all other gears without any of their weaknesses. Gear 5 so far gives luffy the following abilities:

1.- He can simply will his body to stretch in any way.
2.- He can turn his environment into rubber.
3.- Cartoon physics.

The first one is why luffy is able to basically turn into giant. I wouldn't be surprised if he can eventually shrink as well an go full antman on unsuspecting fools.. But willing his body to stretch means he doesn't have to pump air into his bones or muscles. Basically ridding himself of a taxing factor in gear 3 and even the haki overuse characteristic of gear 4 (since gear 4 required haki to maintain the form). Now he can simply will his bones and muscles to stretch into giant limbs. He can even will his body's elasticity and characteristic to change so that hitting with blunt damage is even less effective than before. Like when kaido used his weapon against his arm and it just stretched further... Of course, even if this solves luffy's haki overuse to a great extent the form still has important stamina drainage which he has to get accustomed to. What this means is that luffy has all the perks of his previous gears simultaneously with none of the drawbacks (or at worst different, more manageable drawbacks).

I've heard some people argue that G5 is weaker than G4 in raw attack power but better overall because of versatility/hax etc.

 

[DeadlyBeast]

I've heard some people argue that G5 is weaker than G4 in raw attack power but better overall because of versatility/hax etc.

I think this is purely because Luffy hasn't used G5 in a serious capacity. G4 attacks are powerful because Luffy creates elastic tension by coating his arm in CoA haki, and then leverages the tension by pulling his fists into his arm like a loaded spring to generate extra force. In theory Luffy now has full control of the rubber properties on his body so similar to how he was able change size (G3 ability) he should be able to change his elasticity to use G4 type attacks in G5 without even needing to cover himself in CoA. And since G5 is supposed to be a stronger body he should be able to produce higher attack power using similar techniques to Kong Gun.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Island sized fist>anything G4 can hope to do

 

[albertwv]

So where should we rank the CP0 agents we saw in this arc?
I don't like how Oda did them dirty. Like how Maha was taken out by Izo at the same time, and the fight was obviously off-paneled. Just like how Drake and the other CP0 agent's fight was off-paneled only to reveal the CP0 agent won, kinda.

They were able to manage to defeat Izo and Drake, and scare away Apoo. So they are at least Flying 6 or Yonko Executive level, below YC or at best YC3/4.

Oda did bad on introducing them in Onigashima only for them to fall so quickly. All that hype for nothing. Now I can only expect for Lucci and Kaku to be stronger if not CP0 will be seriously a disappointment. I was hoping that the Masked Man that interfered with Luffy vs Kaido, would be their leader and the strongest among the CP0s. But now it seems Lucci may be stronger.

 

[grey matter]

So where should we rank the CP0 agents we saw in this arc?
I don't like how Oda did them dirty. Like how Maha was taken out by Izo at the same time, and the fight was obviously off-paneled. Just like how Drake and the other CP0 agent's fight was off-paneled only to reveal the CP0 agent won, kinda.

They were able to manage to defeat Izo and Drake, and scare away Apoo. So they are at least Flying 6 or Yonko Executive level, below YC or at best YC3/4.

Oda did bad on introducing them in Onigashima only for them to fall so quickly. All that hype for nothing. Now I can only expect for Lucci and Kaku to be stronger if not CP0 will be seriously a disappointment. I was hoping that the Masked Man that interfered with Luffy vs Kaido, would be their leader and the strongest among the CP0s. But now it seems Lucci may be stronger.

I think the boss is YC2-3 level, and the underlings at the top of Tobiroppo tier.

The boss mid diff'd Drake, arguably the strongest Tobiroppo (it's either him or Who's Who IMO)
Drake later stabbed him from behind, and STILL lost.

The underling managed to "defeat" Apoo (he ran away). And Apoo is someone I consider at the top of Tobiroppo level as well.

I completely agree that Oda mishandled the CP0. Their hype is down, but not as down as you think IMO.
I'd assume the "boss" is a high tier, but probably tier 3 in their ranking (I assume Lucci would be tier 2 along with some others, and THE boss would be tier 1).
The fact that he is strong enough to mid diff the strongest Tobiroppo (or one of them) hypes up the CP0 somewhat

 

[albertwv]

I think the boss is YC2-3 level, and the underlings at the top of Tobiroppo tier.

The boss mid diff'd Drake, arguably the strongest Tobiroppo (it's either him or Who's Who IMO)
Drake later stabbed him from behind, and STILL lost.

The underling managed to "defeat" Apoo (he ran away). And Apoo is someone I consider at the top of Tobiroppo level as well.

I completely agree that Oda mishandled the CP0. Their hype is down, but not as down as you think IMO.
I'd assume the "boss" is a high tier, but probably tier 3 in their ranking (I assume Lucci would be tier 2 along with some others, and THE boss would be tier 1).
The fact that he is strong enough to mid diff the strongest Tobiroppo (or one of them) hypes up the CP0 somewhat

I don't know if I would say Apoo is higher than the F6. He doesn't seem to be that strong, he has a semi-Hax DF, but physically weak. Zolo one shotted him and knocked him out for awhile, this was Zolo not even serious serious or Vs King level yet.
I rank Apoo and Hawkins right below the F6.

Drake is hard to tell. People like to rank him high on the F6 list because he is popular and a member of the Worst Gen. But his portrayal has been lacking. He couldn't do much to Sanji pre-raid, (not saying he lost to Sanji), then during the raid, he got surprised by Queen, then he could barely manage to fight Apoo, couldn't even defeat Apoo even after telling Zolo he was going to do it, instead he teams up with Apoo LOL. Then he loses off-paneled the fight vs CP0 agent.
Oda didn't know what to do with Drake in this arc. I had high hopes for Drake but Oda ruined the character.

I didn't like the fact that after his apparent defeat at the hands of CP0, he still manages to get up and strike a fatal blow to CP0 agent, but the agent uses Moon Walk technique to remove himself from the sword AND then finger stab Drake, ultimately defeating him but NOT killing Drake. I know how Oda is and I know he won't kill Drake.

I also thought it was ridiculous the amount of times Kid and Law were out of energy and strength to fight BM, but kept getting back up over and over again. They themselves point it out that "this is my last straw/attack" then pull another attack in the next scene. Then after they "defeat" Big Mom, they claim they cannot move any longer and that Luffy should defeat Kaido since they can't move. But then Kaido comes down to kill the samurai, somehow Kid and Law have energy to get up one more time.....They don't fight Kaido but the fact that they keep repeating this plot of "this is my last attack" to "I no longer have anymore energy" to "okay this is really my last attack" to "ok that's it I can't move/have energy" is getting old. Just like beheading Orochi.
It no longer holds any weight when characters be pulling stuff like that.
I understand Oda wants to incorporate a sense of dread and loss of hope then to turn it back around and show the great ever lasting resiliency, but it gets old and boring real quick.

 

[LaGOAT]

Luffy winning this fight imo doesn’t put him above kaido

 

[Zehahaha]

Luffy winning this fight imo doesn’t put him above kaido

Depends. If we are talking about pre-Gear 5 Luffy, he isn't above Kaido no matter how you put it. Gear 5 Luffy is a different story tho

 

[Pirate Queen]

Powerscaling is going to be so funny when next arc an absolute fodder is going to fuck around with Luffy because he is still such an idiot