One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
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• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[LaGOAT]

Gear 5 Luffy ? Why wouldn't he be able to do it ? I do see Luffy mopping the floor with Kid, Killer, Law and Zoro. Unclear whether Luffy has been using FS while he is using Gear 5, but if not, then that's even one more area of improvement.

ur telling me that luffy can take on 9S+zoro(acoc)+kidd and law (awakening mode) killer,Yamato(ACOC) just like kaido did???Lol naw bruh

 

[Zehahaha]

ur telling luffy can take on 9S+zoro(acoc)+kidd and law (awakening mode) killer,Yamato(ACOC) just like kaido did???Lol naw bruh

Honestly yes, I can see him do that. Only in Gear 5 that is, and provided Gear 5 doesn't have any time limitations.

Also, why would are you adding Kid and Law using their awakening ? If we want to be completely fair here, they must not use their awakening as they didn't use it against Kaido.

The fight would've been very different had Law used his awakening against Kaido. I doubt Kaido would've lasted that long had he taken some damage from awakened Law based on the damage the old hag had suffered.

 

[john ellis]

ur telling luffy can take on 9S+zoro(acoc)+kidd and law (awakening mode) killer,Yamato(ACOC) just like kaido did???Lol naw bruh

yes, the person who beat kaido can certainly beat the people who kaido beat, i'd raise you a level, i think g5 luffy could run the gaunlet then extreme dif kaido.

also curent zoro, law and kidd also scale way higher then the roof top anyway. Currently... luffy probably would struggle to run the gaunlet. Kaido certainly couldn't beat awakened kid+law+acoc yamato and zoro though

 

[Core D. Roy]

Also, why would are you adding Kid and Law using their awakening ? If we want to be completely fair here, they must not use their awakening as they didn't use it against Kaido.

I mean there's no reason to think they didn't have access to awakenings vs. Kaidou. If you don't count awakenings because they weren't used, then you kinda have to also put Luffy in his pre-awakened state for most of the fight, with him only achieving it near the end of this hypothetical matchup.

Even if you discount Law's and Kidd's awakenings entirely, and Luffy has G5 the entire gauntlet, I don't think G5 is going to let Luffy take all those fights in a row with being teamed up on.

 

[really_jonny]

ur telling me that luffy can take on 9S+zoro(acoc)+kidd and law (awakening mode) killer,Yamato(ACOC) just like kaido did???Lol naw bruh

Craziness. Lmfao.

 

[Franckie]

Kaido is clearly Luffy's superior. Kaido has defeated Luffy more times than any other antagonist in this series (even more so than Crocodile) and Luffy required two (two!) major power ups plus Oda retconning the Gomu Gomu no Mii just to make Kaido's defeat plausible.

My major concern is how both Blackbeard and Akainu will fare against Luffy. BB will probably be fine because he's superhuman even by One Piece standards and his two DFs are ideal counters to Luffy's shenanigans. The only problem is Oda's handling. One moment BB is written as a cunning genius and then a minute later he's written as a buffoon. Not sure if Oda can make him a credible threat as he has for Kaido.

Not sure about Akainu. I'm still of the opinion that Admirals aren't Yonkou tier and he isn't in a position to acquire a major power up. The bigger issue though is that Akainu is no longer in a position to pursue Luffy since he's bound to Marineford now and Luffy holds BB responsible for everything that went wrong with Marineford, specifically Ace's death. I just don't see a rematch occurring between the two anytime soon, and if one does occur, Luffy may very well be weakened when it happens.

 

[XXGenesis]

Kaido isn’t defeated as of yet imo.

Kaido’s durability & Stamina is ridiculous he plowed through a gauntlet of characters. Defeated Luffy the most I think we’ll ever see him lose.

If a rematch was given. G5 Luffy struggles but still pulls out a win. Simply because in a rematch Luffy would be much better at using G5 and have more stamina to use it longer.

As strong as Luffy & the other SuperNova are & appeared to be. None of them could take on a Yonkou 1 vs 1. It took Luffy 4 different chances to gain a win…

Law/Kidd did really good; Their win has a asterisk next to it.

They tagged team BM hurting her and threw Big Mom down a hole going through Onigashima….She would have returned as we saw her attempt. if she wasn’t taken out by a plot device aka the Bombs in the Basment….

Oda showed us a parallel
between Kidd/Law & Luffy vs Yonkou.
Big Mom would have continued fighting…Same way Luffy with ACoC still wasn’t enough to take down Kaido. Even his G5 didn’t give him auto upper hand

The duo got off lucky while Luffy is forced to finish the job all the way through.

Luffy is Yonkou tier now; We’ve seen characters get the better of Yonkou; Not all the Yonkou have the durability to nullify damage. But I do believe they all possess monster levels of stamina. Where dialogue of fatigue won’t be mention, they’ll just keep on ticking until they are defeated and sustain enormous amount of damage.

 

[Zehahaha]

I mean there's no reason to think they didn't have access to awakenings vs. Kaidou. If you don't count awakenings because they weren't used, then you kinda have to also put Luffy in his pre-awakened state for most of the fight, with him only achieving it near the end of this hypothetical matchup.

Even if you discount Law's and Kidd's awakenings entirely, and Luffy has G5 the entire gauntlet, I don't think G5 is going to let Luffy take all those fights in a row with being teamed up on.

Of course they did have their awakenings, but they didn't use it. So it is difficult to say how Kaido would've fared had he taken two awakening attacks from Law and Kid as well. I already acknowledge the fact that pre-awakening Luffy cannot run this gauntlet, as he wasn't at Kaido's level yet.

Gear 5 changed things and if anything, it was Luffy who is using Gear 5 for the 1st time vs Kaido. And we saw that with Gear 5, Luffy was more than keeping up with Kaido.

For me I see no reason why Gear 5 Luffy won't be able to run the gauntlet as we saw it happen in the manga, he is that strong.

 

[LaGOAT]

U forgot that kaido was lifting an island when fighting a gauntlet of ppl. G5 luffy looking beatable and also looks like it has a time limit too I mean can G5 luffy beat kaido eh maybe but it would be a extreme diff still…

--- Double Post Merged, May 22, 2022, Original Post Date: May 22, 2022 ---

Of course they did have their awakenings, but they didn't use it. So it is difficult to say how Kaido would've fared had he taken two awakening attacks from Law and Kid as well. I already acknowledge the fact that pre-awakening Luffy cannot run this gauntlet, as he wasn't at Kaido's level yet.

Gear 5 changed things and if anything, it was Luffy who is using Gear 5 for the 1st time vs Kaido. And we saw that with Gear 5, Luffy was more than keeping up with Kaido.

For me I see no reason why Gear 5 Luffy won't be able to run the gauntlet as we saw it happen in the manga, he is that strong.

Because luffy durability/stamina ain’t the same lvl as kaido. Iuffy ain’t built like that

 

[Zehahaha]

U forgot that kaido was lifting an island when fighting a gauntlet of ppl. G5 luffy looking beatable and also looks like it has a time limit too I mean can G5 luffy beat kaido eh maybe but it would be a extreme diff still…

Have we ever heard Kaido bitch and moan and say 'damn lifting this island is draining me' ? As far as I am concerned, he wasn't so I will not blow this out of proportion.

--- Double Post Merged, May 22, 2022, Original Post Date: May 22, 2022 ---

U forgot that kaido was lifting an island when fighting a gauntlet of ppl. G5 luffy looking beatable and also looks like it has a time limit too I mean can G5 luffy beat kaido eh maybe but it would be a extreme diff still…

--- Double Post Merged, May 22, 2022, Original Post Date: May 22, 2022 ---

Because luffy durability/stamina ain’t the same lvl as kaido. Iuffy ain’t built like that

I am sorry but under Gear 5, Luffy has been tanking Kaido's attack like no else did before. I don't see why Luffy's durability in Gear 5 isn't enough...

 

[LaGOAT]

Have we ever heard Kaido bitch and moan and say 'damn lifting this island is draining me' ? As far as I am concerned, he wasn't so I will not blow this out of proportion.

he doesn’t have tho I just stating that this guy was lifting an island while fighting these guys. That’s an impressive feat

 

[Nie Li]

he doesn’t have tho I just stating that this guy was lifting an island while fighting these guys. That’s an impressive feat

I'd normally dismiss it entirely as a passive ability with no draining at all, but Momonosuke showed it really does tax the DF user's stamina badly.

However... even though it taxed Momonosuke's stamina, Momonosuke is an absolute weakling and he still managed to make the island land safely on his first try, so the effort isn't really proportionate to the size of Onigashima.

Overall, it's still something to take into account because he's been holding and moving it safely for hours while actively fighting.

 

[Zehahaha]

I'd normally dismiss it entirely as a passive ability with no draining at all, but Momonosuke showed it really does tax the DF user's stamina badly.

However... even though it taxed Momonosuke's stamina, Momonosuke is an absolute weakling and he still managed to make the island land safely on his first try, so the effort isn't really proportionate to the size of Onigashima.

Overall, it's still something to take into account because he's been holding and moving it safely for hours while actively fighting.

I agree, I just don't think it makes that much of a difference in Kaido's case. Also, I think Momo felt some fatigue to due to the mental stress he was going through since the start of the invasion as well.

 

[M3J]

The question is if Luffy loses to some random fodder next arc will we powerscale that fodder at Yonko level ?

It depends on how.

 

[albertwv]

Main defense point of G5 Luffy > Kaido is:
"well even though Kaido was beating the shit out of G5 Luffy the majority of the fight, he still could not deal the finishing blow, therefore G5 Luffy > Kaido."

Facts: Kaido was tired of fighting a huge cast that is considerably strong as Yonko Commanders, nonstop, while keeping a whole island floating. Luffy lost three times and got a meal break in between fighting and got a power up.

Funny how y'all ignored my point on Mike Tyson vs 12 different boxers.

The main reason why Kaido lost to Luffy was because Oda was tired of Luffy getting defeated and wanted to keep the story going forward. The fight felt rushed and was an asspull.

It is wrong to say that G5 Luffy could replicate what Kaido did and run a gauntlet. The reason why Kaido fought through all those opponents, was for Oda to weaken the World Strongest's Creature in the world so he could be defeated somewhat logically.

Btw, this fight was disappointing and no other Luffy fight has surpassed Lucci vs Luffy.

 

[aberick]

Main defense point of G5 Luffy > Kaido is:
"well even though Kaido was beating the shit out of G5 Luffy the majority of the fight, he still could not deal the finishing blow, therefore G5 Luffy > Kaido."

Facts: Kaido was tired of fighting a huge cast that is considerably strong as Yonko Commanders, nonstop, while keeping a whole island floating. Luffy lost three times and got a meal break in between fighting and got a power up.

Funny how y'all ignored my point on Mike Tyson vs 12 different boxers.

The main reason why Kaido lost to Luffy was because Oda was tired of Luffy getting defeated and wanted to keep the story going forward. The fight felt rushed and was an asspull.

It is wrong to say that G5 Luffy could replicate what Kaido did and run a gauntlet. The reason why Kaido fought through all those opponents, was for Oda to weaken the World Strongest's Creature in the world so he could be defeated somewhat logically.

Btw, this fight was disappointing and no other Luffy fight has surpassed Lucci vs Luffy.

bro, your arguments are all kinda dumb tbh

1° kaido was tired, but luffy was tired aswell, so what? luffy did what, 90% of damage kaido had?, luffy was tired because he got knocked out 3x, comparing pre power up luffy to actual kaido is not the point here, we are saying that luffy g5 > kaido, so we need to see g5 luffy condition + feats vs kaido, you ignore the fact that luffy return from the death after the intervention of the cp0 guy, so luffy was ALOTTTTTTTT more tired than kaido at this point , you can see when he was about to return to his normal form, so, its more than a fact that luffy was more tired, and still was able to defeat kaido.

2° man, mike tyson analogy dont make any sense, first, the stamina / durability in one piece its nothing close to the real world, any damage in real world can be devastating, a simple punch from a amateur that hits a right point can k.o anyone, in one piece not, the same for stamina, a most profissional fighters are tired af in 5 rounds, while in one piece yonkous can fight for hours or days, so this analogy dont make any sense, and your analogy is so wrong, but so wrong that you used "luffy as the last fighter in 12° round", when luffy was the one who fighted kaido for more time than all the other enemies together and did alottt more damage than all the other opponents together, and you didnt mention that the 12° round opponent was even more tired than mike for the final round .

3° the argument of the only reason to luffy defeat kaido is because oda need to keep the story going forward, lmao, this is a ridiculous argument used when someone has weak/no arguments and have to appeal to "he just won because he was the main protagonist" haha.

4° saying that the reason kaido run the gauntlet was to weaken him is not a fact, so dont say like its a fact, for me and probably alot of other people can be to show how strong kaido is or just because of plot, scabbards = revenge for oden, all of them fodderized, yamato trying to buy time for luffy, its alot more plausible...

 

[john ellis]

kaido simply was failing to hurt g5 luffy if u want a durability feat for g5. It was tanking all out kaido attacks like it wasn't much. Like luffy was basiclly on 1 health and was tanking kaido hits left, right and centre. But the gaaunlet would damage luffy right? well ok yes maybe a little bit but like actually no?

 

[Gallon]

Luffy wasn't on "1 health." A Zoan's awakening allows incredible and fast recovery after defeat, and Luffy portrayed this very well. Crocodile had stated that the awakened Zoans in Impel Down would soon stand up, so they had to bounce - if they were to stand up at barely any health, there would have been no cause for concern.
Gear 5 Luffy wasn't far off of a fresh Luffy in terms of durability and damage output; what was probably reduced was his endurance and stamina, but so was Kaido's, who was panting way before Luffy's awakening.

While Gear 5 has been thoroughly impressive, I don't think he'd win a battle of attrition against Kaido. Luffy at his best is for sure on par with hybrid Kaido, or even slightly above considering his versatility, but he isn't lasting as long - that's Kaido's forte.

 

[john ellis]

Luffy wasn't on "1 health." A Zoan's awakening allows incredible and fast recovery after defeat, and Luffy portrayed this very well. Crocodile had stated that the awakened Zoans in Impel Down would soon stand up, so they had to bounce - if they were to stand up at barely any health, there would have been no cause for concern.
Gear 5 Luffy wasn't far off of a fresh Luffy in terms of durability and damage output; what was probably reduced was his endurance and stamina, but so was Kaido's, who was panting way before Luffy's awakening.

While Gear 5 has been thoroughly impressive, I don't think he'd win a battle of attrition against Kaido. Luffy at his best is for sure on par with hybrid Kaido, or even slightly above considering his versatility, but he isn't lasting as long - that's Kaido's forte.

why would there be a battle of attrition? g5 luffy quickly defeated a kaido, why would kaido get to play a battle of attriton if g5 luffy can do so much damage to kaido. That makes no sense. Also there is nothing to say kaido has better attition then g5 luffy. Luffy fought against kata for 12 hours? kaido at most fought here for 12 hours. Also most certainly didn't last a great deal of time vs luffy anyway. Please explain how kaido would get to a battle of attrition. Also luffy seemly trades hits better then kaido, kaido appears to lack the damage output to deal tons of damage to a g5 luffy, where as a g5 luffy can deal alot of damage vs a kaido. Yes kaido hurt g5, but not by alot.


also your second point yes being damaged doesn't really effect durabillity and damage output at all.

 

[Gallon]

why would there be a battle of attrition? g5 luffy quickly defeated a kaido, why would kaido get to play a battle of attriton if g5 luffy can do so much damage to kaido. That makes no sense. Also there is nothing to say kaido has better attition then g5 luffy. Luffy fought against kata for 12 hours? kaido at most fought here for 12 hours. Also most certainly didn't last a great deal of time vs luffy anyway. Please explain how kaido would get to a battle of attrition. Also luffy seemly trades hits better then kaido, kaido appears to lack the damage output to deal tons of damage to a g5 luffy, where as a g5 luffy can deal alot of damage vs a kaido. Yes kaido hurt g5, but not by alot.


also your second point yes being damaged doesn't really effect durabillity and damage output at all.

Because G5 Luffy didn't wreck Kaido, not sure what you're talking about. Kaido was about to hit his limit way before Luffy awakened, and it was still close regardless.
If Kaido went through a gauntlet of opponents, was already panting while fighting G4 Luffy, and still managed to beat him (albeit unfairly, but he would've won either way), and then went another round against G5 and barely lost, it's not too far-fetched that a fresh Kaido would've likely come on top.

You're blowing Luffy's performance out of proportion. Even with G5, his attacks weren't as devastating as you're making it seem, nor were Kaido's so meaningless; they were relative equals throughout the entire bout, and Luffy won with a giant final attack.