One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

goldb

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Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

  • For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
  • Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
  • Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
  • We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

  1. Shanks v Mihawk
  2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
  3. Zoro > Luffy
  4. Zoro v Sanji
  5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
  6. Mihawk's rank within the story
  7. Law having CoC currently.
  8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.
 
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catagon87

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why would there be a battle of attrition? g5 luffy quickly defeated a kaido, why would kaido get to play a battle of attriton if g5 luffy can do so much damage to kaido. That makes no sense. Also there is nothing to say kaido has better attition then g5 luffy. Luffy fought against kata for 12 hours? kaido at most fought here for 12 hours. Also most certainly didn't last a great deal of time vs luffy anyway. Please explain how kaido would get to a battle of attrition. Also luffy seemly trades hits better then kaido, kaido appears to lack the damage output to deal tons of damage to a g5 luffy, where as a g5 luffy can deal alot of damage vs a kaido. Yes kaido hurt g5, but not by alot.


also your second point yes being damaged doesn't really effect durabillity and damage output at all.
Because G5 Luffy didn't wreck Kaido, not sure what you're talking about. Kaido was about to hit his limit way before Luffy awakened, and it was still close regardless.
If Kaido went through a gauntlet of opponents, was already panting while fighting G4 Luffy, and still managed to beat him (albeit unfairly, but he would've won either way), and then went another round against G5 and barely lost, it's not too far-fetched that a fresh Kaido would've likely come on top.

You're blowing Luffy's performance out of proportion. Even with G5, his attacks weren't as devastating as you're making it seem, nor were Kaido's so meaningless; they were relative equals throughout the entire bout, and Luffy won with a giant final attack.
I got the vibe that Luffy would have been out of steam had his last attack on Kaido not worked, and thus lost the battle. How I see this:

Kaido stats:
HP: 10,000ish

Luffy (pre-G5) stats:
HP: 1000ish.

Kaido fights 9RS. Fun fight, HP reduced by ~500.

Kaido fights worst generation: With gear 4 attacks, and Law's internal attacks + Zoro's Asura... HP reduced by ~2000.

Luffy defeated(ish) for first time (in this fight). Gets up, now has aCoC! Level'd up!

Kaido takes ACOC blows from Luffy 1v1. HP reduced by a mystery amount. Perhaps around 2000? Sends Luffy flying off Onigashima. Luffy defeated a second time.

Current HP = 10k - 500 - 2k - 2k = 5000.

Kaido goes on an adventure to murder Momo. Runs into Yamato.

Kaido takes damage from Yamato. 1500ish.

Current HP = 3500.

Luffy comes back up and Yamato tells Momo that Kaido is running out of steam. Carrying Onigashima is becoming a burden and rocks are starting to fall off. So, he's likely < 50%.

Luffy is now reinvigorated with food, ACOC, and enhanced motivation after Momo becomes a big dragon and starts trying to pull Onigashima away. Hp upgrade, 1500!!!

Luffy and Kaido spar throughout multiple chapters. Luffy lands blows in base form, and in snake-man, as well as bounce-man. This probably brought Kaido to around ~1500 hp.

"Final blow" where Luffy says he will be done if it doesn't work: Luffy defeated (third time) due to interference, but defeated none-the-less. Kaido didn't

Luffy receives yet-another-powerup! Gear 5. Except, his HP bar hasn't really increased. It's more like he's become one of those annoying Final Fantasy enemies that has a low HP pool, but specific weakness that if not exploited, they take very low damage.

New Luffy HP: 1000.
Strong resistance: Blunt
Weak to: Slash, burn

Kaido @ 1500 hp. Luffy @ 1000 hp.

Luffy's surprise attacks reduce Kaido to 1000 HP! (Tom and Jerry attack, as well as reversing his breath).

Kaido's kanabo-based attacks, being blunt, do minimal damage to Luffy. About 10 per hit! Luffy's attacks hurt a bit more.

Luffy loses his beat for a moment, and Kaido also is brought to his knees in exhaustion. Both fighters are evenly matched at this point, relative to their own exhaustion levels, HP, and ability to hurt one another.

After a small skirmish involving multiple Kanabo blows to Luffy, as well as rubberizing blows from Luffy to Kaido including being ballooned from within, Luffy goes up to the sky, and Kaido goes back to Dragon form.

Kaido activates flame shield! Luffy is weak to flame shield! DOT DMG: 50 per second.

Luffy activates giant fist attack.

Luffy HP: 500 -> 450.. .. .. -> 100...

Luffy powers through! Kaido falls. DOT damage still hurting.

Luffy HP: 50 -> 1.

End battle as Kaido smashes into the earth taking well over 1000 damage in a single blow.

----

That's a silly representation but that's how I think about it. Kaido as full is still stronger than G5 Luffy, and capable of hurting him be it from flame attacks, or projectile blades. It's like when Luffy fought Katakuri. He won through a mix of plot armor and will. There's probably something to do with him being a mythic zoan and having great regenerative capability as well, but we'll go with the former two for now. Post-Katakuri Luffy wasn't stronger than Katakuri per se. He didn't figure out how to increase his COA to Katakuri's level, but he could outlast with the right circumstances and ACOO.

If Luffy were to fight Kaido in the future he would stand a better chance at a fresh win, but I don't think there's any future that Luffy could quickly defeat a fresh Kaido. If anyone could "quickly deal with a Yonko" then they wouldn't be Yonko, and whoever could do that wouldn't just be PK level. They'd be like, rule-the-world level.
 

BoyNextDoor

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nah gear 5 luffy is stronger than kaidou. everyone that fought kaidou before luffy were too weak to do any real damage. THATS why he could shrug them off. there's no HP nonsense in one piece. if your move has 1 attack power, it dont mean you need to do it 1000 more times to do 1000 damage. if its weak then it wont ever do shit to kaidou. the REAL fight started when luffy reached gear 5. thats the only part that matters. this full strength, half strength, quarter strength talk is some bullshit thats been going on too long. its just how the author writes the fights these days to show how nobody could really hurt kaidou. he didn't lose no "health points" until luffy.
 

Pirate Queen

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Yeah. If anyone rereads the whole fight from beginning to end in one sitting, it is clear we really did give to much credit to anyone not named Luffy. And I guess I'm too biased for Luffy to come across as saying that with a level head, but NOTHING was getting to Kaido and he was holding back at times (i.e. not using FS when he easily could have)

Any type of real fight came at the latter part of his fight with Luffy. Meaning anything that actually mattered
 

Core D. Roy

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Yeah. If anyone rereads the whole fight from beginning to end in one sitting, it is clear we really did give to much credit to anyone not named Luffy. And I guess I'm too biased for Luffy to come across as saying that with a level head, but NOTHING was getting to Kaido and he was holding back at times (i.e. not using FS when he easily could have)

Any type of real fight came at the latter part of his fight with Luffy. Meaning anything that actually mattered
I mean it was Kaidou himself giving credit to the characters way more than the fandom. So either Kaidou is just a big drama queen selling every hit with an exaggerated scream to make his enemies feel more adequate about their attacks, or you're just wrong and the Scabbards/Supernovae/Yamato did considerable damage to him over time.
 

Pirate Queen

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I mean it was Kaidou himself giving credit to the characters way more than the fandom. So either Kaidou is just a big drama queen selling every hit with an exaggerated scream to make his enemies feel more adequate about their attacks, or you're just wrong and the Scabbards/Supernovae/Yamato did considerable damage to him over time.
He really was. He cried like a bitch when the 9RS first cut him and literally the next chapter he told them they were a joke.

Case an point, Kaido cried when the 9RS cut him but tanked attacks like Ashura and Supreme Kong Gun without wailing
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

9RS simple stabs vs a Supreme Kong Gun





Without context you'd think the 9RS did more damage
 

really_jonny

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Yamato commented that Kaido was weakening in chapter 1027 at the very beginning of his real battle against Luffy. So you guys say that only Luffy dealt damage, it's a very bad headcanon.

Kaido has no reaction to attacks that can't harm him, this was seen in his first fight with Luffy. The Scabbards were indeed capable of dealing damage to him, but shallow cuts without much depth. Law and Killer damaged Kaido from the inside and his eyes turned white, Kid compressed Kaido's body, Zoro actually cut Kaido with Tatsumaki, left permanent scar on Kaido's scales (before Ashura, Kaido's scar didn't reach all the way to scales, after Ashura overcame the scales). Yamato's ACOC hits dealt damage.
 

Pirate Queen

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Yamato commented that Kaido was weakening in chapter 1027 at the very beginning of his real battle against Luffy. So you guys say that only Luffy dealt damage, it's a very bad headcanon.

Kaido has no reaction to attacks that can't harm him, this was seen in his first fight with Luffy. The Scabbards were indeed capable of dealing damage to him, but shallow cuts without much depth. Law and Killer damaged Kaido from the inside and his eyes turned white, Kid compressed Kaido's body, Zoro actually cut Kaido with Tatsumaki, left permanent scar on Kaido's scales (before Ashura, Kaido's scar didn't reach all the way to scales, after Ashura overcame the scales). Yamato's ACOC hits dealt damage.
No one is saying only Luffy dealt damage. Just that the Luffy did so much in comparison to the others
 

DeadlyBeast

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Now that Wano's battles are over, who do y'all think was stronger - Big Mom or Kaido? Personally I think Kaido is stronger since he made good use of his DF power and aCoC haki. Also his final technique beats anything I've seen out of Big Mom.
 

XXGenesis

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Now that Wano's battles are over, who do y'all think was stronger - Big Mom or Kaido? Personally I think Kaido is stronger since he made good use of his DF power and aCoC haki. Also his final technique beats anything I've seen out of Big Mom.
If in the next 2 chapters; Neither of them make a return.

I think it’s clearly Kaido. He showed much more dominance over numerous opponents, even in groups. Even with haki, he’s shown us much more.
 

DeadlyBeast

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If in the next 2 chapters; Neither of them make a return.
Yes I personally think the fighting is over for this arc. We'll probs see Kaido & BM in battle again someday but unlikely there will be a focus on them to the extent they got this arc ever again.

I think it’s clearly Kaido. He showed much more dominance over numerous opponents, even in groups. Even with haki, he’s shown us much more.
My same thoughts on Kaido. He did many more impressive things than BM ever did. I really like BMs powers and the style of attacks but the scale/raw power she displayed didn't match Kaido for me by the end. He was able to show more skillful fighting and his haki was just way better than hers.
 

M3J

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Hard to tell which one because the focus was clearly on Kaidou, and it feels like Big Mom was ploterized into losing. Plus, both have different strengths and weaknesses.
 

grey matter

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If Kaido is 100, BM is 95.

Close in power, but Kaido wins extreme diff
 

Core D. Roy

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Now that Wano's battles are over, who do y'all think was stronger - Big Mom or Kaido? Personally I think Kaido is stronger since he made good use of his DF power and aCoC haki. Also his final technique beats anything I've seen out of Big Mom.
They're about equal with no clear advantage over each other. So... basically how it's always been portrayed.
 

JStackz26

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So let me wonder this now.
Luffy - Apparently ble to KO Kaido. Albeit post gauntlet and two KO's. Although one CP-0 based but likely would have still happened.

Law & Kidd - Didn't KO Big Mom but did some damage and was able to send her deep into Onigaahima. But with the help of Kaido's explosives. Could otherwise have came back after a slight recovery.

Now where do Zoro and Sanji stack up against those 2? Wouldn't stand a chance?
Because if Kaido and Big Mom were considered people with Haki too dense to move them with his ability then Zoro and Sanji alone would likely have to ridiculously improve their Haki to defeat just him. Kidd seem the easier opponent. So how far off from them do you all view Zoro and Sanji?
 

LaGOAT

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I’ll say this
Kaido is 100
Luffy is a 99
big mom is a 97
Kidd/Law is a 90
Zoro is a 89
sanji is a 86
 

Fox666

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I’ll say this
Kaido is 100
Luffy is a 99
big mom is a 97
Kidd/Law is a 90
Zoro is a 89
sanji is a 86
I find it hard to believe Zoro or Sanji are at 80% of Kaido's power

Aren't them commander-level now?

Kaido one-shotted a commander-level Luffy at the start of Wano. He also took down all of the Scabbards combined... Nekomamushi, Inuarashi, Ashura Douji, Denjiro, etc are all commander-level

I had say a commander is at 20% of Kaido
 

Bandit99

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I’ll say this
Kaido is 100
Luffy is a 99
big mom is a 97
Kidd/Law is a 90
Zoro is a 89
sanji is a 86
Lol zoro and sanji are almost 90% of kaido’s power?
 

LaGOAT

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I find it hard to believe Zoro or Sanji are at 80% of Kaido's power

Aren't them commander-level now?

Kaido one-shotted a commander-level Luffy at the start of Wano. He also took down all of the Scabbards combined... Nekomamushi, Inuarashi, Ashura Douji, Denjiro, etc are all commander-level

I had say a commander is at 20% of Kaido
Did we forget the feats perform against kaido and Big mom? she was even was so nervous that she had to tell kaido to dodge one of his attack on top of that zoro actually put damage on him (put a damn scar on him) also was able to temporarily hold off an attack from both yonkos And on top of that he has ACOC now.

sanji isn’t too far from zoro but we don’t know how strong his powerup is he just low diff queen once he got his powerup
 

DeadlyBeast

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They're about equal with no clear advantage over each other. So... basically how it's always been portrayed.
I think Kaido does have a clear advantage over Big Mom, his skill with haki. He made a lot more use out of haki, particularly aCoC compared to Big Mom. In a fight between people of their levels this is the deciding factor which Big Mom failed to showcase in her fight with Kid/Law.

What advantage does Big Mom have over Kaido in a fight that we can point to?
 

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The yonkou are not suppose to be equals…This was never stated…Only an explanation of why they didn’t go to war with each other…Saying they are equal in strength isn’t true. They are only equal in status & title.

It’s subjective of who’s better….However objective arguments can be made that Kaido displayed much more skill than Big Mom & used more effective attacks…I.e Haki not just use his DF abilities.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

I find it hard to believe Zoro or Sanji are at 80% of Kaido's power

Aren't them commander-level now?

Kaido one-shotted a commander-level Luffy at the start of Wano. He also took down all of the Scabbards combined... Nekomamushi, Inuarashi, Ashura Douji, Denjiro, etc are all commander-level

I had say a commander is at 20% of Kaido
Agreed.

I think 2ndCommanders are like 20%…
& 1st Mates are like 25%-35%

I view Law/Kidd at like 65%-75%
 
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