One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

I think Kaido does have a clear advantage over Big Mom, his skill with haki. He made a lot more use out of haki, particularly aCoC compared to Big Mom. In a fight between people of their levels this is the deciding factor which Big Mom failed to showcase in her fight with Kid/Law.

What advantage does Big Mom have over Kaido in a fight that we can point to?

She can casually use aCOC
Oda just nerfed her

 

[Core D. Roy]

She can casually use aCOC
Oda just nerfed her

Absolutely this. She had no problem OHKO'ing Ulti with it, but when it came time to fight Kidd/Law Oda had to get her out of the way relatively quick to showcase Kaidou- it is his big arc afterall. I kinda wonder how things would have gone if opponents were switched. Also at least Luffy's tankiness was explained away as an aspect of G5. Kidd/Law being able to constantly survive attacks that should have annihilated them was kinda bs.

 

[DeadlyBeast]

She can casually use aCOC
Oda just nerfed her

Absolutely this. She had no problem OHKO'ing Ulti with it, but when it came time to fight Kidd/Law Oda had to get her out of the way relatively quick to showcase Kaidou- it is his big arc afterall. I kinda wonder how things would have gone if opponents were switched. Also at least Luffy's tankiness was explained away as an aspect of G5. Kidd/Law being able to constantly survive attacks that should have annihilated them was kinda bs.

I agree that she can use aCoC but her lack of consistent use of it (we have few examples) is a downgrade for me. Big Mom did not show case much use of haki. Kaido showcased similar level of DF mastery (I'd argue Kaido's final attack is better than any attack Big Mom has shown) but was far more exceptional in his use of haki. At this point people who defend Big Mom's strength usually say one of two things:

• Her character is incompetent so doesn't go all out when she should have explaining why she lost to Law/Kid who didn't use aCoC
• Oda as the author has decided he doesn't care enough about her so he nerfed her character making her weaker than she should have been

If BM has been portrayed as weaker than Kaido and the reason she is either not intelligent or the author of the story doesn't care, doesn't that mean she is weaker? I can understand not liking the reasons since she held a lot of promise earlier on but at this point with the Wano arc closing for one reason or another her portrayal has been weak compared to Kaido. Unless Oda shows more from her in the future as it stands Kaido is a superior 1v1 fighter.

 

[The Prince of Darkness]

Let's be honest here, unlike Kaido who was made strong af so that Luffy could reach higher level, Oda made Big Mom weak and nerfed af so that she could be defeated by weaker characters.

 

[Fox666]

The yonkou are not suppose to be equals…This was never stated…Only an explanation of why they didn’t go to war with each other…Saying they are equal in strength isn’t true. They are only equal in status & title.

It’s subjective of who’s better….However objective arguments can be made that Kaido displayed much more skill than Big Mom & used more effective attacks…I.e Haki not just use his DF abilities.

Isn't it clear that the Emperors are somewhat equals?

Whitebeard and Shanks clashed, Shanks stopped Kaido in Marineford arc, Kaido and Big Mom fought for days

I think Roger and a young Whitebeard had an edge over them, but I'm sure the current Emperors would give them an extremely difficult fight

Kidd/Law being able to constantly survive attacks that should have annihilated them was kinda bs.

They just got stronger.....

 

[XXGenesis]

Isn't it clear that the Emperors are somewhat equals?

Whitebeard and Shanks clashed, Shanks stopped Kaido in Marineford arc, Kaido and Big Mom fought for days

I think Roger and a young Whitebeard had an edge over them, but I'm sure the current Emperors would give them an extremely difficult fight


They just got stronger.....

Read @DeadlyBeast post a few above this one. He articulates the argument very well. They just aren’t equals.

WB vs Shanks was the 1st time we saw 2 Emperors clash and the result of it..Heavens splitting.

There is no details on How Shanks stopped Kaido. Yet he did. None of Shanks Pirate showed signs from engaging in a battle. Shanks stopped him somehow and definitely had some kind of advantage over Kaido;

Yes Roger & WB are top of the Food chain. I say current Kaido would give them a high diff fight.

 

[DeadlyBeast]

Isn't it clear that the Emperors are somewhat equals?

Whitebeard and Shanks clashed, Shanks stopped Kaido in Marineford arc, Kaido and Big Mom fought for days

I think Roger and a young Whitebeard had an edge over them, but I'm sure the current Emperors would give them an extremely difficult fight


They just got stronger.....

I think they are relative equals in the sense they are the only credible threats to each other. That does not mean that in a death fight they all would be a tie. Up until this battle in Wano we only have 1 Yonko ever go all out and that was White Beard at Marineford. We saw old White Beard and his limits and strengths. And finally in this arc we saw Kaido and Big Mom go all out against the Super Nova and they both lost. This fight showed us their feats and Kaido was more impressive than Big Mom. If we list feats that both have displayed Kaido has the edge.

I think people give non serious fights too much credit. The Shanks v WB clash is no different then Kaido and Luffy exchanging a single punch. That was the entirety of that fight. As for Shanks v Kaido, we saw nothing so that still leaves Shanks strength as an unknown. He could be stronger than Kaido in a 1v1. Similarly Kaido v BM earlier in the arc was off screen and not serious. The entire castle was in tact and not destroyed even after three days of them fighting. Unless you believe this fight was a true all out life & death fight we can't use this to say they are equals.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

Read @DeadlyBeast post a few above this one. He articulates the argument very well. They just aren’t equals.

WB vs Shanks was the 1st time we saw 2 Emperors clash and the result of it..Heavens splitting.

There is no details on How Shanks stopped Kaido. Yet he did. None of Shanks Pirate showed signs from engaging in a battle. Shanks stopped him somehow and definitely had some kind of advantage over Kaido;

Yes Roger & WB are top of the Food chain. I say current Kaido would give them a high diff fight.

Why isn’t the simple explanation the best
Shanks just had an information advantage
So far shanks thing is that he’s an im formation dude , with WB he went to negotiate , with the gorosei he went to talk ,

 

[XXGenesis]

Why isn’t the simple explanation the best
Shanks just had an information advantage
So far shanks thing is that he’s an im formation dude , with WB he went to negotiate , with the gorosei he went to talk ,

I totally agree. Shanks could have given Kaido some sort of info in order for him to stand down. It if it was some sort of clash…The Shanks Pirates didn’t engage much. Meaning they had some weird advantage that made circumstances bad for the Beast Pirates and they couldn’t advance further..

 

[albertwv]

If Kaido was stated to be the World's strongest creature by the author, then who will be the next villain? Saying that Luffy> Kaido, this means Luffy is now the World's strongest Creature/Man? Does that sound right?
So now who will be Luffy's next villain, Akainu or BB or an entirely new out of the blue villain?

Akainu and BB are weaker than Kaido, I presume by what the author stated. So now we have Luffy stronger than the WSC, so Luffy fighting someone weaker than him (akainu or BB) will have no suspense, since we know he could defeat them. So can we cross out Akainu or BB as the next major opponent Luffy will fight?
It has to be a new out of the blue villain to give Luffy a tough battle, if not Luffy would just probably mid diff Akainu or BB and that would not make sense.


Btw, I think Kaido > BM high diff. It may have to do with Oda rushing BM's defeat just to get rid of 2 Yonkos and moving the story forward but she suffered a humiliating defeat at the hands of Kid/Law. Pathetic.
Kaido on the other hand went through so much to get defeated, more than any other character, more than WB at MF.
Oda really did her bad, he could have not included the BMP in this arc and just allowed the Beasts Pirates, but he wanted to rush the story and added to many characters in this arc. Disappointing.

Kaido vs Shanks...... Here is what I think happened.
Shanks intercepted Kaido somehow in the NW, not sure how or where, maybe before getting to FI since it seems to be the only way to cross from NW to Paradise. This is me assuming Kaido went with his pirate crew to stop WB, instead of flying solo in his Dragon form and flying over the Red Line.
Kaido and Shanks clashed just like WB vs Shanks, and then Kaido seeing that Shanks would be a challenge and instead of fighting him, defeating him but taking huge damage AND then still proceed to fight WB, weighed his options and backed out. Since it would not be in Kaido's favor to defeat Shanks and then fight WB, weakened. So Kaido returned back to Wano and Shanks moved on to MF.
That's what I think happened.

 

[roggie]

It may have to do with Oda rushing BM's defeat just to get rid of 2 Yonkos and moving the story forward but she suffered a humiliating defeat at the hands of Kid/Law. Pathetic.

On the other hand i don't think BM was really defeated like Kaido. Of course she was put out of play but it took a few explosives and burying her on magma. I don't think Kid and Law could really smack her out of commission.

Considering BM being 95~99% Kaido, i would put Kid and Law at 45%.
Zoro maybe 50% , after using CoC
Luffy 95%
The scabbards 10~20%

Though I'm not sure how each of us interpretate those percentages, since even if you sum the 9RS they are not able to defeat Kaido.

 

[Core D. Roy]

Akainu and BB are weaker than Kaido

I don't know why people always lowball Blackbeard. I've been under the assumption he's currently the strongest in the world since the Payback War. Two incredibly overpowered DF, the skill to scar Shanks, the most meteoric rise in pirate notoriety outside of Luffy himself. All these factions playing the long game with their gathering of power, and Blackbeard makes them all look like amateurs.

 

[MakMatik]

ur telling me that luffy can take on 9S+zoro(acoc)+kidd and law (awakening mode) killer,Yamato(ACOC) just like kaido did???Lol naw bruh

Kaidou didn't take on Kidd and Law (awakening mode), but that's beside the point.

I think what's more important is if Luffy fought the same way as Kaidou. Seeing Kaidou's depths and skills when fighting at full power and through quite a lot of his portrayal, he ate so many attacks just because he wanted to.

That's why I'm of the mind that Luffy could potentially get through the gauntlet with his specific fighting style. I do mean 'get through' as opposed to 'tanking' it like Kaidou did. This is also without receiving a weeks worth of food mid flight. But I do think a Healthy Luffy with the aCoC, aCoA, FS and gear 5 in his back pocket has a chance.

This is of course with the exact same gauntlet though. If you have Kidd and Law using their awakening and Zoro with his fully controlled aCoC there's no chance.

 

[Fox666]

ur telling me that luffy can take on 9S+zoro(acoc)+kidd and law (awakening mode) killer,Yamato(ACOC) just like kaido did???Lol naw bruh

Yes

Luffy doesn't even need Gear 4 or 5

When he split the sky with Kaido the first time, he was already capable of beating the 9 Scabbards all by himself

 

[669ako]

The strawhats battlers
1 luffy
2 yamato
3 zoro
4 sanji
5 jinbei.
For anything zoro needs more time training to master his coc and he is not specialize in this haki but armament. Yamato still > zoro because of good and better control of COC.

 

[thedude]

The strawhats battlers
1 luffy
2 yamato
3 zoro
4 sanji
5 jinbei.
For anything zoro needs more time training to master his coc and he is not specialize in this haki but armament. Yamato still > zoro because of good and better control of COC.

I think you'll find that Zoro and Sanji are about the same level as Yamato by next arc. And Jinbei is right there with them. Zoro/Sanji were below Jinbei last arc I think, but now are above him. That's how it will go with Yamato (who I'm glad joined the crew, her DF is great, like her design and everything. Just stop calling yourself Oden!)

 

[albertwv]

Luffy does NOT have the same durability or HP that Kaido has, therefore he cannot perform the same Kaido did versus all those fighters. Y'all are really trying to downplay Kaido. Oda put Kaido through a lot for a reason. To show us that he is no ordinary villain that Luffy could defeat 1v1.
I find it hard to believe G5 Luffy could take on the 9RS.

I don't know why people always lowball Blackbeard. I've been under the assumption he's currently the strongest in the world since the Payback War. Two incredibly overpowered DF, the skill to scar Shanks, the most meteoric rise in pirate notoriety outside of Luffy himself. All these factions playing the long game with their gathering of power, and Blackbeard makes them all look like amateurs.

Your assumption is wrong. Nothing to prove that he is stronger than Kaido or BM. All he did was beat the Remnants of the WB Pirates, Marco being a YC1+. That is still below Yonko level. Also its not like BB fought all of the WBP by himself, obviously his ID inmates helped.
People use Shanks' scar to hype up BB. First of all, we have no idea when this happened and at what level of power they both were at when it happened. Nonetheless it is impressive but not enough to claim "BB scarred YONKO Shanks!! Therefore he must be near Yonko."
NAH.
Shanks was scarred over 12 years ago, when we first met him he had the scars yet he wasn't Yonko at the time. He wasn't a rookie either, we just don't know how strong Shanks was 12 years ago.
We know he wasn't scarred when they met over 26 years ago when Roger vs WB clashed.
Next time we see Shanks is at the execution of Roger, but it doesn't seem like he had the scars yet. So sometime between Roger's execution and meeting Luffy, did Shanks fought BB.
Unfortunately we have no clue how strong either were at that time. .

I think BB will be the semi-final villain who will absorbed everybody's DF power and be the ultimate villain before being killed by an out-of-the-blue new villain who was in the shadows all this time watching Luffy grow and planning Luffy's journey to lead him to this villain (just kidding, its a play on Naruto, Inuyasha, FT end of series villains).
Seriously though, I do believe BB will acquire more DF powers thru the use of the Dark Dark DF and fight Luffy at the end.

 

[DeadlyBeast]

Luffy does NOT have the same durability or HP that Kaido has, therefore he cannot perform the same Kaido did versus all those fighters. Y'all are really trying to downplay Kaido. Oda put Kaido through a lot for a reason. To show us that he is no ordinary villain that Luffy could defeat 1v1.
I find it hard to believe G5 Luffy could take on the 9RS.

The moment Luffy mastered aCoC he beat 9RS medium/easy difficulty even in his base form. G4/G5 is just overkill for 9RS at this point.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Luffy was tanking Yonko level hits head on and still coming at Kaido by the end of their fight... come on now

 

[kkck]

I don't know why people always lowball Blackbeard. I've been under the assumption he's currently the strongest in the world since the Payback War. Two incredibly overpowered DF, the skill to scar Shanks, the most meteoric rise in pirate notoriety outside of Luffy himself. All these factions playing the long game with their gathering of power, and Blackbeard makes them all look like amateurs.

But... we saw how BB performed at marineford, two fruits and all. His martial arts (and defense) are lacking and he even struggled with a several injured BB. And then even after acquiring WB's fruit we saw how senguku basically fought BB and his entire crew. We also have zero context regarding BB's haki at this point. He has never evidenced conqueror haki... even though at least WB, kaido and big mom have evidenced some level of cladding related invulnerability. The yonko so far have been people who excelled and mastered almost every aspect of combat introduced in the series. So far they have been supremely skilled martial artists, they've shown the highest level of haki mastery in all areas (though there's a case to be made that kaido and big mom didn't use internal damage armor haki) along with conqueror cladding, and have exceptional devil fruits (with the obvious exception of shanks). BB as we last saw him did not evidence conqueror haki, his martial arts were at best rough with his defense specially being called out and he ultimately relied on his capacity to laugh off absurd damage from people like WB or sengoku. Obviously he is way ahead of the curve ability wise having gathered the ability to shut down other's abilities while pummelling with the strongest offensive paramecia known. It's entirely possible BB today is the strongest if at least his haki has improved but it's quite the reach that he was the strongest 2 years back.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 1, 2022, Original Post Date: Jun 1, 2022 ---

I agree in that luffy could defeat the 9RS on his own by this point. With cladding at play they should struggle to deal damage to luffy almost as much as they did with kaido. That said, I do believe that at least for now luffy remains effectively weaker than kaido or big mom. The battle against kaido and big mom were ultimately battles of attrition. A lot of people were involved in kaido's and big mom's HP being chipped at. Luffy went at kaido multiple times with each one representing a new significant boost for him. Luffy can no doubt fight on the same leve as kaido but IMO if he were to fight right now a version of kaido at his peak with no hp being chipped of him then after a grueling battle kaido would simply outlast luffy. Luffy can probably close that gap quickly once he fully masters his awakening and fine tunes his cladding (since he learned it mere hours ago).

I think the implication here is that both law or kidd are above any of the red scabbards. What they did here is beyond marco-king-katakuri level folk and it seems almost optimistic that the strongest of the scabbards would clock at that level.