Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.
It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.
For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
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Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.
As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:
Shanks v Mihawk
Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
Zoro > Luffy
Zoro v Sanji
Is Smoker a top 30 character?
Mihawk's rank within the story
Law having CoC currently.
Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.
If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.
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When did katakuri overpower boundman? Katakuri could punch and cause damage to boundman but there are no instances of katakuri's and luffy's fist clashing while luffy used boundman where katakuri won. The only instance where boundman landed hits on katakuri showed him getting overpowered.
Kidds attacks probably didn't start hurting big mom until his awakening came into play. The manga showed that assigned caused actual damage to big mom and the rail gun did as well. Which speaks to the sheer potency of kidd's devil fruit. I am not clear on whether kidd's constructs did much of anything before that, it doesn't look like they did tbh.
That is Luffy attacking. We know he used conqueror coating because there is a lightning streak here. The lightning streak was the impact of Luffy kicking Kaido with conqueror coating.
That was not the case when Luffy took conqueror coating from Kaido. If there was a lighting streak, it was not because Luffy coated his face with conqueror to reduce the damage he took from Kaido, the lighting streak was caused due to the impact of damage Kaido hitting Luffy. 2 different situations.
Conqueror coating is never shown to be able to be used as hardening to reduce damage. It's armament job. If Luffy used hardening when he took Kaido's attack Oda would have shaded Luffy's face but he did not shade Luffy's face. Luffy took Kaido's attack head on without haki protection.
Luffy has used aCoC to defend himself as well. Here is an example where Luffy was going for a kick and Kaido defended by pulled him in with his tail in order to land a head butt. Luffy used aCoC to block the full impact of Kaido's headbutt.
It's called conqueror haki cladding... your body is clad in conqueror's haki. Clearly it has defensive properties. The yonko using it passively is primarily evidenced by big mom at WCI. Why would she suddenly become vulnerable when in distress, thus leaving enough of an opening to poison her? Because her cladding to some capacity is active. Her willpower faltering causes her cladding to falter, hence she becomes vulnerable. It's pretty likely all cladding users enjoy this benefit when they activate it. Though perhaps other users don't have it active at all times. I don't think luffy will have it active at all times because it would get in the way of comedic relieve tbh. However to some capacity even WB evidenced this back in the ace flashbacks where ace failed to do anything to him even in WB's sleep.
Luffy has used aCoC to defend himself as well. Here is an example where Luffy was going for a kick and Kaido defended by pulled him in with his tail in order to land a head butt. Luffy used aCoC to block the full impact of Kaido's headbutt.
The conqueror coating indication/lighting streak direction is on Luffy and Kaido direction. An indication that Kaido and Luffy both used conqueror coating on their foreheads when they headbutted each other.
Here the lighting streak is only on Kaido's direction. No lightning strike on Luffy's direction indicating only Kaido used conqueror coating.
Luffy did not use conqueror coating to defend himself. He took conqueror coating point blank without haki protection.
Reminds me of the guy who said Vergo was Yonko level because he found some black streaks on the panels.
Can clearly see that the kanabo is not touching Luffy (just like all aCoC interactions). If you want to see what taking a hit from Kaido is like, then look what happened to Luffy when CP0 interfered.
Reminds me of the guy who said Vergo was Yonko level because he found some black streaks on the panels.
Can clearly see that the kanabo is not touching Luffy (just like all aCoC interactions). If you want to see what taking a hit from Kaido is like, then look what happened to Luffy when CP0 interfered.
I'm not saying Katakuri is yonko level. I'm saying he could do better than Kidd/Law against yonko. WCI and Wano is 1 arc and we also got confirmation Luffy only trained his armament in Udon. We also got confirmation conqueror coating only boosts attack power.
I think there's no difference when Luffy took Kaido's hit when Cp0 interfered with when Luffy took Kaido's conqueror coating in chapter 1036-1037. Luffy did not use conqueror coating to protect himself in these situations.
If Luffy used conqueror coating on his head then we should see lighting streak on Luffy's direction here
yet the lightning streak is only on Kaido's direction. Only Kaido used conqueror coating. Luffy did not use conqueror coating to defend from Kaido's attack.
The conqueror coating indication/lighting streak direction is on Luffy and Kaido direction. An indication that Kaido and Luffy both used conqueror coating on their foreheads when they headbutted each other.
Here the lighting streak is only on Kaido's direction. No lightning strike on Luffy's direction indicating only Kaido used conqueror coating.
Luffy did not use conqueror coating to defend himself. He took conqueror coating point blank without haki protection.
I'm not sure I follow your point here. It seems we both agree that if a person uses aCoC they will have lighting streaks (correct me if I'm wrong). Luffy used aCoC on his head to defend against Kaido's surprise head butt. Why does this instance not get counted as using aCoC defensively?
The second panel you showed is questionable. Until it's animated not clear to me if Luffy did or id not use aCoC to defend there. So I won't argue this is an example of using aCoC to defend since it's not fully confirmed.
I'm not sure I follow your point here. It seems we both agree that if a person uses aCoC they will have lighting streaks (correct me if I'm wrong). Luffy used aCoC on his head to defend against Kaido's surprise head butt. Why does this instance not get counted as using aCoC defensively?
The second panel you showed is questionable. Until it's animated not clear to me if Luffy did or id not use aCoC to defend there. So I won't argue this is an example of using aCoC to defend since it's not fully confirmed.
I agree with that. There should be lighting streak if someone uses conqueror coating.
The best example is here. Luffy used conqueror coating on his left hand to block Kaido's kanabo. We see lighting streak from Luffy and lighting streak's direction is on Luffy.
On the other hand, here there is no lightning streak from Luffy head. Lighting streak is only from Kaido and on Kaido's direction. We can't see shading on Luffy's head since it is closed by Kaido's kanabo which is covering Luffy's head. But with no indication of lighting streak coming out from Luffy, it's safe to say that only Kaido is using conqueror coating here.
Simple answer. It's been stated more than a dozen times. Luffy didn't use it when he raged on Kaido hence the blitz. You're the one ignoring that.
Kaido is not faster than future sight can track. Thunder Bagua and it's variations are the fastest attacks Kaido has and Luffy dodges them fine when he's not overcome by emotion.
Only Luffy himself (and probably Katakuri) possesses attacks that FS can't track all the time.
Can clearly see that the kanabo is not touching Luffy (just like all aCoC interactions). If you want to see what taking a hit from Kaido is like, then look what happened to Luffy when CP0 interfered.
That's Luffy on his last legs. Any serious hit he takes at that point was going to be a KO. I don't see how it applies.
I'll reiterate again CoC cladding does not grant durability rather it deflects attacks and prevents them from touching the user. It's clearly not a passive ability but an active one.
This is headcannon. Her natural hardness has not been explained same as her losing it in that specific scenario wasn't.
Kaido's durability has been explained to be directly related to his DF.
We can see his daughter has no such natural durability. Meanwhile, adult Momo has been said to be pretty durable as it stands. From someone with 0 real training, his genes and more so the dragon DF is most likely the reason.
I agree with that. There should be lighting streak if someone uses conqueror coating.
The best example is here. Luffy used conqueror coating on his left hand to block Kaido's kanabo. We see lighting streak from Luffy and lighting streak's direction is on Luffy.
On the other hand, here there is no lightning streak from Luffy head. Lighting streak is only from Kaido and on Kaido's direction. We can't see shading on Luffy's head since it is closed by Kaido's kanabo which is covering Luffy's head. But with no indication of lighting streak coming out from Luffy, it's safe to say that only Kaido is using conqueror coating here.
We need to stop acting as if Kid broke Big Mom's bones on his own, matter of fact it's still vague whether it was his attack or Laws that did it; for the time being we can give it to Kid, but Law internal damage is what enabled him to do it, he otherwise lacks the required strength and haki to damage Big Mom. The areas where Big Moms bones were broken were the same areas where Law's shock Wile had penetrated, she even makes a comment to address the damage she took (not once is Kid mentioned might I add).
Well, we know Kidd's Awakening has the strength to damage her as she praised both of them for causing her pain in chapter 1031 before going Bigger Mom on them, not just Law. Law is always being pointed out because his abilities are particularly hax. Kaido even called out Law for his troublesome abilities, but that doesn't mean his attacks were more effective against Kaido on the Rooftop.
As boring as Kid's use of his abilities is, Oda has made sure to show through him that impact-based attacks are effective when enough force is put behind them. Yes, it's vague whether Kid was the one who actually broke Big Mom's arm, but I'd say given Oda's intent to portray them as on the same level throughout that fight, we can attribute the broken arm to Kidd, meaning that both of them were capable of breaking her bones and Big Mom vocalizing Law's effect on her is mainly for our benefit as readers to let us know the full extent of his attack. The fact that Big Mom put in major effort to uproot an entire tower to block Kid's Corna Dio implies that it's an effective attack that she needed to dodge.
All Kid was doing was throwing/dropping shit towards Big Mom and he made use of assign and built a Rail Gun which she literally laughed off, she would have bounced back had Law not done the R.Room.
I mean, Law was doing the exact same thing throughout the fight when he wasn't using his Awakened abilities. He threw towers at her. Hell, he threw rocks at Kaido too. Stuff like that was still proving to be effective against them. And the Rail Gun made her bleed just as Law's Puncture Wille did. R-Room didn't do anything to assist Kid. Law silenced Big Mom, but what did it really accomplish? Misery was already aware that she was in trouble and was on the way to attempt to save her. Now, it could be argued that Law's intercepting Misery assisted in the long run, but Kid kept her pinned on his own with Damned Punk, despite needing a second shot to send her flying.
How are we even gauging this "no comparable attack strength", Katakuri's strength and attack potency (with Block/power mochi) was higher than boundman Luffy. Luffy could not clash fish with Katakuri without screaming in pain, which indicated that Kat's armament haki was pretty advanced. We need to stop acting as if Kid broke Big Mom's bones on his own, matter of fact it's still vague whether it was his attack or Laws that did it; for the time being we can give it to Kid, but Law internal damage is what enabled him to do it, he otherwise lacks the required strength and haki to damage Big Mom. The areas where Big Moms bones were broken were the same areas where Law's shock Wile had penetrated, she even makes a comment to address the damage she took (not once is Kid mentioned might I add).
Katakuri was thrown back by boundman Luffy when he blocked him and was overwhelmed until he started using future sight again.
In raw damage, boundman Luffy outmatched Katakuri; he didn't even complain about his hands hurting. Big Mam said Law's shockwave got her ribs, and even if we were to ignore that, Kid still hurt Big Mam with the steel beams and when capable of harming Kaido by slamming him. All feats I named are above what Katakuri has done. Even if we look at the portrayal, Law and Kidd are portrayed as equals; claiming that Kid does no damage to Big Mam makes no sense from that standpoint too. Kid has numerous feats above what Katakuri has done.
All Kid was doing was throwing/dropping shit towards Big Mom and he made use of assign and built a Rail Gun which she literally laughed off, she would have bounced back had Law not done the R.Room.
And all that shit was hurting her. While the railgun wasn't super impressive, the whole point of that scene was that Big Mam was bluffing when she was laughing.
Kid has High base strength sure, but there's no way we can sit here and say that cat who has higher base strength, insanely high armament and observation haki proficiency and the he is without a doubt one of the fastest characters in the OP verse right now.
I don't get how we're saying "Brute strength >>> Advanced CoA, Advanced COO, Speed and High base strength, it makes no senses.
I can say Kid has better strength because he has superior feats to Katakuri. Despite everything Katakuri has, his showings are lacklustre compared to the Yonko and people capable of fighting them. Katakuri is comparable to Act I Luffy, and we saw what happened to him. You're so hung on Katakuri's haki when the Law and Kid vs Big Mam fights were to show off high-level combat relying on mainly devil fruit abilities.
I've re-read the chapters and Kid was doing nothing till Law started using his awakening, although it's a gag Law made a point that Kid was waiting for him to use his abilities so that he could follow up, which basically tells me that he just lacks the facilities to damage Big Mom until Law weakens her defenses.
I'm not even trying to hate on Kid here, just being as realistic as I can be, having re-read the chapters surrounding the BM vs Kid & Law fight, I'm still waiting to be impressed by anything he's done.
Both of them couldn't do a thing to Big Mam, just both of their awakenings. It was a gag, that's it. Law's fruit said nothing about softening Big Mam up. Being disappointed in Kid isn't crazy; I'm disappointed in the application of his abilities, period, but that doesn't change the fact he has showings way better than Katakuri.
You are comparing pre TS Luffy (Enies Lobby) with post TS Luffy (Wano) while I'm comparing post TS Luffy (WCI) with post TS Luffy (Wano). You think Luffy during 2 years from Enies Lobby to Wano has the same growth rate as Luffy growth from WCI to Wano which was 3 weeks. There is no reason why 1 arc causes that huge boost in speed and durability when Luffy trained his armament mainly in Udon. That is like saying Zoro's stats improved drastically from Shells Town to Baratie but he was relative to Sanji who did not get powercreep.
WCI Luffy can tank Punk Corna Dio. There is no justification for Luffy's durability boost
It doesn't matter the time that went by; the point was that Luffy was significantly stronger in both scenarios. I don't care if it doesn't make sense; Luffy got stronger. A single Thunder Bagua knocked out act 1 Luffy by Base Kaido. In the very same picture, you post Luffy eats a Thunder Bagua by Hybrid Kaido, who was stated to have stronger haki from before, and this is after already had taken multiple blows from before.
Damn!!!! So many points are being discussed at once. Wow!! This break sure has us talking. I really don’t know who or what topic to address…
I’ll try to freestyle what I can skim read…..
1) Shounen Power Creep is a real thing and authors handle it differently.
Casual Training- Zoro lifting weights
Off screen training- Flashbacks
Progressive experience- Running through low/mid diff opponents before main villain
Intuition/Adaptablity- Unlocking new skills/abilities/techniques
ODA’s range of usage of power creep was exaggerated and gave little context to the reasoning during Wano. Where it leaves it to be a stretch of the imagination. Hence the disagreement on inconsistent illustration;
Zoro’s hype had him at minimum & highest Doffy lv. He gets a sword, & he’s YC1
Sanji-Literally no solid fight to properly power scale him. Just a bunch of clashes with different results. His Germa genes awaken. He has a Mid diff fight with a YC2…
Law lost miserably to Doffy; Didn’t dominate Hawkins; He’s fighting Yonkou’s & pulls an awakening out his ass with, mad stamina to follow
Kidd has high commander lv hype due to resume. ODA just had him throw junk at ppl until it worked lol.
It’s all wacky…with Little believable reasoning to it; Just kinda have to accept it’s what the auhtor choose to do. Without the context of Why, When, or How?
Luffy got a power creep in Udon. He was in seastone, doing physical activities. He learned Ryo & trained for a week with it. Rooftop Luffy was stronger than beginning of Wano, simple as that….Kaido still made short work of Luffy 2x on the rooftop….1st time he forced Zoro to step up and buy him some time…Luffy got back up and starts to use ACoC on Kaido but is stomped again & falls off
the roof.
Big Mom & Kaido are relative to each other. They are yonkou. Kaido is obviously the better of the two.
Katakuri is a YC1 with an Awakened DF; I don’t believe he packs enough offense to do what Kidd did to Big Mom when he crushed her twice with his DF powers. His limits weren’t shown but I’m pretty sure we got a good idea of what they are. 2 Katakuri’ dare not going to hurt Big Mom the same way Kid/Law did.
Katakuri doesn’t have the attack power to K.O Kidd; Kidd has endured multiple of Big Moms attacks, his stamina is too high for someone like Katakuri. He’s also not helpless as Assign is a short ranged attack…& Magnifies it’s target, meaning Katakuri wouldn’t be able to manipulate his body the way he wants to evade; So he’s going to take damage
It doesn't matter the time that went by; the point was that Luffy was significantly stronger in both scenarios. I don't care if it doesn't make sense; Luffy got stronger. A single Thunder Bagua knocked out act 1 Luffy by Base Kaido. In the very same picture, you post Luffy eats a Thunder Bagua by Hybrid Kaido, who was stated to have stronger haki from before, and this is after already had taken multiple blows from before.
No it does matter. 1 arc does not justify huge boost. You are saying baratie Sanji>>>Shells Town Zoro because Shells Town Zoro got power creep but he was still relative to Sanji who was chilling in Baratie.
Of course you don't care if it does not make sense because you can push your agenda that way.
Gear 4 Luffy is always easier to get knocked out.
This is base Luffy taking conqueror coating
This is Gear 4 Luffy got his eyes white after taking Thunder Bagua from weakened Kaido.
Luffy did not get durability boost. Gear 4 Luffy is not as durable as base Luffy when it comes to taking conqueror coating from someone whose armament surpass Boundman. Different case with Doflamingo. His armament does not surpass Boundman so he cannot tickle Boundman while he can damage base Luffy.
Kaido was weakened when Luffy ate those conqueror coating attacks. Luffy did not get stronger. Kaido got weaker stated by Yamato.
Current Luffy>>>WCI Luffy only in attack power.
WCI Luffy can take Punk Corna Dio, Rail Gun none of Kid's attacks would harm WCI Luffy.
How are we even gauging this "no comparable attack strength", Katakuri's strength and attack potency (with Block/power mochi) was higher than boundman Luffy. Luffy could not clash fish with Katakuri without screaming in pain, which indicated that Kat's armament haki was pretty advanced. We need to stop acting as if Kid broke Big Mom's bones on his own, matter of fact it's still vague whether it was his attack or Laws that did it; for the time being we can give it to Kid, but Law internal damage is what enabled him to do it, he otherwise lacks the required strength and haki to damage Big Mom. The areas where Big Moms bones were broken were the same areas where Law's shock Wile had penetrated, she even makes a comment to address the damage she took (not once is Kid mentioned might I add).
Katakuri's attack power was relative to post WCI Luffy. Yes, Katakuri's was stronger, but it was more like a 10 compared to Luffy's 9. There is no way you can look at that nearly even fight, and say Katakuri's attack power that MUCH stronger than Luffy's.
If this Luffy can't deal any damage to Kaido, then neither can Katakuri.
Katakuri landed countless attacks on Luffy, and couldn't put him down. While Kaido one shotted him.
This suggests a massive difference in attack power.
Kid's attacks did break BM's bones, how would internal organ damage from Law break bones?
Clearly there were two components in that 2v1. Kid the brawler who engaged in physical combat, Law who used openings to land his internal damage attacks.
If Kid's attack on it's own can't deal significant damage to BM, why did she flip over an entire tower in order to dodge his attack, when she got stuck to the tower? She would've just tanked them.
It's called conqueror haki cladding... your body is clad in conqueror's haki. Clearly it has defensive properties. The yonko using it passively is primarily evidenced by big mom at WCI. Why would she suddenly become vulnerable when in distress, thus leaving enough of an opening to poison her? Because her cladding to some capacity is active. Her willpower faltering causes her cladding to falter, hence she becomes vulnerable. It's pretty likely all cladding users enjoy this benefit when they activate it. Though perhaps other users don't have it active at all times. I don't think luffy will have it active at all times because it would get in the way of comedic relieve tbh. However to some capacity even WB evidenced this back in the ace flashbacks where ace failed to do anything to him even in WB's sleep.
What do we even have to go off of that assign disrupts future sight, are we just giving Kid random feats/power ups? Big Mom hardly used COO to even have that be a valid statement.
I'm not sure what we're using the gauge that Kid is far above Katakuri (it's almost like we're saying that the antagonists never get stronger after an extreme diff). People are forgetting that Law hard carried that Big Mom fight, a lot of the damage Kid ultimately able to do was a result of Laws internal damage attacks, Kid's attacks didn't seem like they were doing much (IMO) until the Rail Gun and even then she was laughing, whereas for Law, Big Mom even took the time to show concern over the effectiveness of his attacks.
Katakuri has insane stamina, the man was using awakening, advanced COO and some form of advanced CoA for 12 hours (Block Mochi). Kat has shown a speed feat in the story that has only been matched by Kaido (Dogding the Snakeman punches). He can replicate everything Luffy can do (in terms of his base DF) and then some, so the question of his strength should be thrown out the window. Kat is extremely proficient in CoA and he has high base strength, are we really arguing that Kid who uses nothing but brute strength can out damage him, when did Haki become so irrelevant?
I can agree with Kid's durability being better as of now, but in terms of attack power his highest damaging attack is a Rail which he requires prep time for and it has not been shown that he can use assign and construct a rail gun at the same time.
I'll say this to finish off, in my opinion you replace Kat with Kid in that Big Mom fight and I think It'd have ended a lot sooner in favor of Law and Kat.
Nah, just feats that Kid has shown.
He can use "assign" in range, don't need contact. Assign has demonstrably shown disrupting combat of the victim. BM doesn't need to use observation haki for my point to be valid, it's just based on logic really.
Katakuri tweaks his body to dodge attacks. What happens if his body is experiencing strong external force while doing so? Clearly, Katakuri won't be able to tweak his body as he pleases under this circumstance? Don't tell me Katakuri is strong enough to resist that force and tweak his body as if it didn't matter, the electromagnetic force was so strong that BM herself was pulled and attached to the tower.
I'd say Law and Kid made equal contributions. Kid was the one who was mostly straight up engaging with BM, making room for Law.
Ultimately, if you're saying Law did more damage, I'd agree. I say maybe 2:1 ratio in damage dealt, in favour of Law. But Kid made up for in in other ways like I explained before.
Oda as well, wanted to portray these two as essentially equals in their fight against BM.
Yeah Katakuri was amazing for his arc. But he has been powercrept.
Kaido's combat speed >>> Katakuri's. Because he replicated it against a MUCH superior Luffy. Your argument makes sense only if we assume that Luffy's speed stays constant throughout the series (accounting for gears of course). Is current base Luffy only as fast as Marineford or Alabasta arc base Luffy?
Kid has other attacks that involve his magnetic creations, that has dealt damage to BM too.
His bull broke BM's bones, and BM was so wary of it that she chose to flip over a tower instead of tanking it head on. Kid's first assign on BM (before she ate up her soul) also managed to damage her and make her bleed.
Kid overall has a much higher attack power too.
Nah, if you replace Kid with Katakuri, at best Katakuri can create openings for Law. Eventually BM will simply ignore Katakuri and focus on Law. Because Katakuri's attack power is much below Kid's, she wouldn't be wary of them
There is no power creep. Luffy's speed is consistent. Kaido is just not as fast as Katakuri outside his Thunder bagua move which has the potential to surpass Katakur's attack speed.
No it does matter. 1 arc does not justify huge boost. You are saying baratie Sanji>>>Shells Town Zoro because Shells Town Zoro got power creep but he was still relative to Sanji who was chilling in Baratie.
Of course you don't care if it does not make sense because you can push your agenda that way.
No, it doesn't matter. Oda has inflated power levels before regardless if the time passed between arcs has been short. I don't care how you rationalise it, this has happened before and just happened.
As for G4 Luffy being easier to knock out, that is false and is the opposite, Gear 4 Luffy is harder to knock out.
This is base Luffy taking conqueror coating
This is Gear 4 Luffy got his eyes white after taking Thunder Bagua from weakened Kaido.
In neither of those pics was Luffy knocked out. I don't care if his eyes weren't white, he was still up, unlike Luffy from Act 1 who got slept in one blow
Luffy did not get durability boost. Gear 4 Luffy is not as durable as base Luffy when it comes to taking conqueror coating from someone whose armament surpass Boundman. Different case with Doflamingo. His armament does not surpass Boundman so he cannot tickle Boundman while he can damage base Luffy.
Luffy did get a durability boost. You made up bullshit headcanon about Gear 4 being worse at taking blows, which is funny because your own scan disproves your point. Gear 4 Boundman Luffy took a Thunder Bagua, that same form of Luffy in Act 1 got one shot by a Thunder Bagua.
Kaido was weakened when Luffy ate those conqueror coating attacks. Luffy did not get stronger. Kaido got weaker stated by Yamato.
Luffy pretty clearly said after Kaido drunk his haki was getting even stronger. You cannot prove that Hybrid Kaido with a haki bloom is weaker than Base Kaido.
No, it doesn't matter. Oda has inflated power levels before regardless if the time passed between arcs has been short. I don't care how you rationalise it, this has happened before and just happened.
As for G4 Luffy being easier to knock out, that is false and is the opposite, Gear 4 Luffy is harder to knock out.
No it does matter when Oda never showed Luffy trained his speed and durability. When Oda never stated conqueror coating improves speed and durability and also when Luffy's feat against kaido was against weakened Kaido. I'm not rationalizing. I'm just stating facts from the manga which you ignored because it does not fit your agenda.
It has never happened. You still have not answered if Baratie Sanji>Shells Town Zoro if you think powercreep always happen in each arc.
You don't care about my argument because you cannot wank Kidd sure. It makes Kidd bad he cannot damage WCI Luffy.
Gear 4 Luffy got white eyed by weakened Kaido (Ch. 1042)
Base Luffy tanked dozen conqueroro coating from weakened Kaido (ch. 1037)
In neither of those pics was Luffy knocked out. I don't care if his eyes weren't white, he was still up, unlike Luffy from Act 1 who got slept in one blow
Sure you don't care because you can't answer how Gear 4 Luffy got white eyed by weakened Kaido while base Luffy tanked dozen conqueror coating from Kaido. Also it was weakened Kaido so it made sense that Gear 4 Luffy was not knocked out. Does not change that Luffy's durability is consistent.
Luffy did get a durability boost. You made up bullshit headcanon about Gear 4 being worse at taking blows, which is funny because your own scan disproves your point. Gear 4 Boundman Luffy took a Thunder Bagua, that same form of Luffy in Act 1 got one shot by a Thunder Bagua.
Gear 4 Luffy got white eyed by weakened Kaido (Ch. 1042)
Base Luffy tanked dozen conqueroro coating from weakened Kaido (ch. 1037)
I already said this. Also ch. 1042 Luffy took Thunder Bagua from weakened Kaido. If ch. 1042 Luffy took Thunder Bagua from fresh Kaido, it would knock out Gear 4 Luffy.
Luffy pretty clearly said after Kaido drunk his haki was getting even stronger. You cannot prove that Hybrid Kaido with a haki bloom is weaker than Base Kaido.
And Kaido was also drunk when he 1 shot pre Udon Luffy. Both situations Kaido was drunk and both situations his armament got stronger. Kaido was weakened when he almost knocked out ch. 1042 Luffy so it balances out with base Kaido knocked out pre Udon's Luffy. You are ignoring that Kaido was injured when he fought ch. 1037 and ch. 1042 Luffy. Luffy's durability is consistent. So doesn't change what I said.
Luffy did not get durability boost. Pre udon Luffy got white yed by drunken Kaido. Post Udon Luffy (ch. 1042) almost got knocked out by drunked weakened Kaido. Luffy did not get durability boost but he was strong enough to tank conqueror coating which could harm Kaido whose durability shits on Big Mom. Kidd is just not that guy. He might beat WCI Luffy if Luffy stands there and Kidd spams his awakening attacks on Luffy. Luffy would take damage but he would tank it no problem. He can take dozen of those and they still won't knock him out. You are just giving Luffy the power up he never had because you cannot admit WCI Luffy is just that durable. Why cannot you admit that? Because you cannot downplay Katakuri's ap that way.
No it does matter when Oda never showed Luffy trained his speed and durability. When Oda never stated conqueror coating improves speed and durability and also when Luffy's feat against kaido was against weakened Kaido.
It has never happened. You still have not answer if Baratie Sanji>Shells Town Zoro if you think powercreep always happen in each arc.
You don't care about my argument because you cannot wank Kidd sure. It makes Kidd bad he cannot damage WCI Luffy.
Gear 4 Luffy got white eyed by weakened Kaido (Ch. 1042)
Base Luffy tanked dozen conqueroro coating from weakened Kaido (ch. 1037)
Sure you don't care because you can't answer how Gear 4 Luffy got white eyed by weakened Kaido while base Luffy tanked dozen conqueror coating from Kaido. Also it was weakened Kaido so it made sense that Gear 4 Luffy was not knocked out. Does not change that Luffy's durability is consistent.
Gear 4 Luffy got white eyed by weakened Kaido (Ch. 1042)
Base Luffy tanked dozen conqueroro coating from weakened Kaido (ch. 1037)
I already said this. Also ch. 1042 Luffy took Thunder Bagua from weakened Kaido. If ch. 1042 Luffy took Thunder Bagua from fresh Kaido, it would knock out Gear 4 Luffy.
And Kaido was also drunk when he 1 shot pre Udon Luffy. Both situations Kaido was drunk and both situations his armament got stronger. Kaido was weakened when he almost knocked out ch. 1042 Luffy so it balances out with base Kaido knocked out pre Udon's Luffy. You are ignoring that Kaido was injured when he fought ch. 1037 and ch. 1042 Luffy. Luffy's durability is consistent. So doesn't change what I said.
Current Luffy>>>WCI Luffy only in ap
Luffy did not get durability boost. Pre udon Luffy got white yed by drunken Kaido. Post Udon Luffy (ch. 1042) almost got knocked out by drunked weakened Kaido. Luffy did not get durability boost but he was strong enough to tank conqueror coating which could harm Kaido whose durability shits on Big Mom. Kidd is just not that guy. He might beat WCI Luffy if Luffy stands there and Kidd spams his awakening attacks on Luffy. Luffy would take damage but he would tank it no problem. He can take dozen of those and they still won't knock him out. You are just giving Luffy the power up he never had because you cannot admit WCI Luffy is just that durable. Why cannot you admit that? Because you cannot downplay Katakuri's ap that way.
Because who Kaido 1 shot was Boundman which is not as good as base Luffy when it comes to taking damage. Who Kaido couldn't 1 shot was base Luffy. Base Luffy seems to be better in taking damage compared to Boundman Luffy.
Base Luffy tanked dozen conqueror coating in ch. 1037 while Boundman almost passed out from 1 Kaido's Thunder Bagua (ch. 1042)
