One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[DeadlyBeast]

But isn't this because haki itself was invisible back in paradise days? Oda has himself confirmed that Ace can use all these forms of haki at it's base level.
His feats scale to YC level by simply scaling his performance against BB with darkness fruit.

Also, none of the YCs yet, except Katakuri, have shown any advanced haki or awakening.

I fully agree that Crocodile in Marineford was retconned to where he narratively made sense to be at. Because there is no way he would have hypothetically regained his will in prison, which if anything is supposed to do the opposite. To be noted (importantly) however, is that he was retconned only relative to Strawhats.
Jozu and Doflamingo undoubtedly were shown in a better light than Crocodile.

About Ace, I agree his feats scale to YC based on the people he was shown to compare e.g. BB. As for Crocodile I think we've both been agreed that it's a retcon so not much to say there.

I agree with all of this.

The issue comes when people wanna argue that Jinbe is somehow YC1 tier, when there is no narrative or feat which supports this.
Or even Crocodile, but with him there is the unknown factor.

There is only one Yonko level Shichibukai, and that is Mihawk.
Weevil is the only other one which possibly has hype on/above YC1s, he is arguably YC1+

Nobody else has such a portrayal. Doflamingo, the Shichibukai with the best portrayal apart from Mihawk and Weevil, turned out to be YC3 tier

Yeah feats wise I haven't seen anything yet from Jinbei that would make him YC1. At best he'd be a YC3 (YC2 if we're pushing it). However, if you were to ask me what his power level is, I'd say he is probably YC1. I believe Oda is deliberately not having Jinbei go all out so that he can make him stronger in a later arc without having to explain a power up, instead he'll just say this is how strong Jinbei always has been.

I haven't read the manga till Wano arc.
But, the anime showed that pretty much everyone who one shotted Pacifista were all WB commanders and veteran captains.


Moria was stronger than pre TS Luffy. It was a combined effort from Strawhats that took him down.
But yes, he was weak AF compared to what a Shichibukai is supposed to be, hence got kicked. At best, he is Tobiroppo level, and I'm being generous here.

He was weak, both narratively and by feats

Yep McNuss corrected me on the above. The people shown taking out the Pacifista are new world captains so they should be better than fodder. Moriah hasn't really shown enough to say if he is any different compared to Paradise so far. Will just wait and see if he has any future showings.

You misunderstand my argument.
My argument isn't that characters can't peak earlier. Luffy and co probably will peak earlier.

My argument is that, after middle-age, characters don't grow strong any more, and simply maintain this level till the old age. And once characters go into their old age, they start becoming weaker This is the pattern I am talking about.
To put it simply, whatever power they have at their middle-age, will be their peak. Irrespective of whether they attained it at middle-age, or in younger days,
Unless of course, they are characters who didn't have DF before but then ended up getting them, which can lead to insane power spikes. Example : BB.


Like I've already mentioned before, BM is an exception cause she is an established mutant.
And even for her, there is zero indication that she grew stronger compared to when she was in her 40s. At best, she maintained her peak through the old age.

Ah gotcha, this I can agree with. When and how long a character peaks for varies but people don't end up in their peak for the first time at old age barring they didn't get a DF or start fighting for the first time etc.

Yeah, let's see.

I'm afraid you are right, but hoping Oda will at least try to make things make sense. Especially given that there is an established in world precedence for the same.

Yep I think Oda will unfortunately take the easy way out so not expecting too much logic/explanation on people get strong out of no where as we proceed in the story.

 

[Core D. Roy]

Jinbe poll?

YC1, maybe even higher, with terrain advantage in the water. Even moreso with terrain advantage against a DF user who is weak against water.

YC2, maybe even higher, with terrain disadvantage. Jinbe's a fucking monster even with the odds stacked against him.

Even this is subject to change since we've never seen him go all out. We've seen him tank the attack that killed Ace whilst protecting Luffy from Akainu, and we've seen him utterly repel Big Mom from the Sunny. These are not YC3 feats lol

 

[Crimson Ice]

1. Ace only matched Aokiji’s attack because of elemental shenanigans.

2. Why are we assuming the Jinbei that Ace fought was as powerful as current Jinbe ? Why couldn’t he have gotten stronger ?

Kuzan's ice can canonically stand up to magma, the only elemental shenanigans was Ace vs Akainu.

 

[LadyVados]

Kuzan's ice can canonically stand up to magma, the only elemental shenanigans was Ace vs Akainu.

Ace is like a level 1 charmander and Akainu is a Level 100 Charizard and Aokiji is a Level 100 Venusaur. If that makes sense.

Actually a more accurate statement would be that Ace is a Lv. 1 Gastly, Akainu is a Level 100 Gengar and Aokiji is a level 100 Snorlax.

 

[Crimson Ice]

Ace is like a level 1 charmander and Akainu is a Level 100 Charizard and Aokiji is a Level 100 Venusaur. If that makes sense.

Actually a more accurate statement would be that Ace is a Lv. 1 Gastly, Akainu is a Level 100 Gengar and Aokiji is a level 100 Snorlax.

No, that doesn't make sense because I level 100 Venusaur is still casually one-shotting a level 1 charmander. The Snorlax comparison is not valid either, Kuzan's ice doesn't just automatically lose to any type of fire or heat, or the passive heat from Akainu's magma would automatically shit on it.



An injured and Ace was able to deal with Kuzan fine, the hierarchy is when fire interacted with Magma.

Ace is not given his respect because people don't respect Teach before the Gura.

 

[LadyVados]

No, that doesn't make sense because I level 100 Venusaur is still casually one-shotting a level 1 charmander. The Snorlax comparison is not valid either, Kuzan's ice doesn't just automatically lose to any type of fire or heat, or the passive heat from Akainu's magma would automatically shit on it.



An injured and Ace was able to deal with Kuzan fine, the hierarchy is when fire interacted with Magma.

Ace is not given his respect because people don't respect Teach before the Gura.

Normal types are immune to ghost types and ghost types are immune to normal types. So Akainu vs Aokiji was a battle of Haki since they’re DFs cancelled each other out which is what happened during the clash with Ace.

I rate Yami BB very highly but I don’t think Ace really pushed him all that much. Looked like a YC4 getting outclassed by a YC1 to me.

 

[Nie Li]

My two cents: I see no merit to Ace and Aokiji's clash, because I see no merit to two logias' frontal elemental "projectile attack" clashing. Ice and fire canceling each other out was pretty normal.

Had they fought properly after that clash Aokiji would have treated Ace just like Akainu did. However, it's also true that Akainu wouldn't have won that fast if it wasn't for Luffy.

 

[Crimson Ice]

Normal types are immune to ghost types and ghost types are immune to normal types. So Akainu vs Aokiji was a battle of Haki since they’re DFs cancelled each other out which is what happened during the clash with Ace.

I rate Yami BB very highly but I don’t think Ace really pushed him all that much. Looked like a YC4 getting outclassed by a YC1 to me.

I know, which is why I said the comparison was not valid. Ace doesn't have some super advantage against Kuzan, Akainu's magma has shown extreme levels of heat and Kuzan's ice would withstand that, so Ace didn't have a mega advantage against Kuzan.

Ace and Teach on the panel was a relative close fight, at least closer than what most people say. The only stat Ace seemed outclassed in was endurance, which is understandable as Teach was able to take a Quake to the head from WB without too much damage.

A YC1 is stomping a YC4 so that comparison isn't really valid.

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 30, 2022, Original Post Date: Aug 30, 2022 ---

My two cents: I see no merit to Ace and Aokiji's clash, because I see no merit to two logias' frontal elemental "projectile attack" clashing. Ice and fire canceling each other out was pretty normal.

Had they fought properly after that clash Aokiji would have treated Ace just like Akainu did. However, it's also true that Akainu wouldn't have won that fast if it wasn't for Luffy.

Saying Kuzan would treat Ace the way Akainu did is ironic because that was the result of one clash, just like the encounter you're disregading.

 

[Nie Li]

Saying Kuzan would treat Ace the way Akainu did is ironic because that was the result of one clash, just like the encounter you're disregading.

There's no irony in there. The post you're quoting already makes clear why the two "clashes" aren't at all comparable.

 

[I Am Atomic]

My two cents: I see no merit to Ace and Aokiji's clash, because I see no merit to two logias' frontal elemental "projectile attack" clashing. Ice and fire canceling each other out was pretty normal.

Had they fought properly after that clash Aokiji would have treated Ace just like Akainu did. However, it's also true that Akainu wouldn't have won that fast if it wasn't for Luffy.

I agree that clash has no meaning.

It's identical to Ace Vs Smoker clash. Huge disparity in strength, but DFs cancelled each other out.

 

[LadyVados]

Zoro’s Bounty is closer to Luffy’s than King’s is to Kaido’s and much closer than Kata’s is to BM.

Proof Zoro is closer to his captain in strength than other YC1s ?

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 30, 2022, Original Post Date: Aug 30, 2022 ---

How do human top tiers like Mihawk or Shanks make up for their low durability ?

They can probably be taken out by a few hits from other Yonko but the other Yonko will take several hits to be put down.

I used to think FS might have something to do with it but Kaido has FS too. Are human top tiers just better at using FS or do they have much higher AP so they can take out non-human Yonko in a few hits too ?

How does say Shanks fight Kaido when one TB might be enough to KO him ? Does he use FS to dodge all of his attacks ? Maybe his FS-cancelling might have something to do with it ? Do other human top tiers like Mihawk, Roger and WB have something similar ? Do they use their blades to block attacks rather than taking them on their body ? What about Garp ? Can they maybe use full-body Haki to give them Kaido/BM level durability ?

 

[DeadlyBeast]

We've seen him tank the attack that killed Ace whilst protecting Luffy from Akainu

Didn't Jinbei get stabbed through his torso by Akainu's attack and pass out right after? I don't think I'd categorize this as tanking an attack if he wasn't able to continue fighting

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 30, 2022, Original Post Date: Aug 30, 2022 ---

How do human top tiers like Mihawk or Shanks make up for their low durability ?

What evidence do you have that they have lower durability? Some of the individuals we've seen with the highest durability in OP are humans so not sure where you came up with Shanks & Mihawk have low durability compared to other Yonko level fighters.

 

[I Am Atomic]

Didn't Jinbei get stabbed through his torso by Akainu's attack and pass out right after? I don't think I'd categorize this as tanking an attack if he wasn't able to continue fighting

I think it's this one zetsu was talking about.

Jinbei is mad impressive ngl

 

[LadyVados]

Jinbei did say in water he’d have a chance vs Akainu…

Unless that was a dub line.

 

[shailks]

Glad people are now recognising Jinbei! He is a solid add to SHs, just below Zoro. May be with time, the author chooses to let Sanji cross over but for now Jinbei is right there with Zoro and Yamato.

 

[LaGOAT]

I think it's this one zetsu was talking about.

Jinbei is mad impressive ngl

Which is why I’m confused about the stength of jinbei a clash with akainu>ace clash with aokiji.

jinbei imo is just slightly below zoro but slightly above sanji right now but in the future sanji will surpass him.

Imo pre emma zoro=jinbei because zoro has asura in his back pocket plus we didn’t see him go all out until wano.

 

[McNuss]

Didn't Jinbei get stabbed through his torso by Akainu's attack and pass out right after? I don't think I'd categorize this as tanking an attack if he wasn't able to continue fighting

Actually he passed out after Crocodile threw him into the air with Sables.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

Jinbei did say in water he’d have a chance vs Akainu…

Unless that was a dub line.

Nah his words were he’s useless on the ground , he’s stronger in water but never implied that

Also seeing the mihawk and shanks debate so funny I’m sorry I’m leaning shanks but mihawk explanation is so much simpler

 

[LadyVados]

Also seeing the mihawk and shanks debate so funny I’m sorry I’m leaning shanks but mihawk explanation is so much simpler

Come… join ussss…. Join the dark side…

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

Zoro’s Bounty is closer to Luffy’s than King’s is to Kaido’s and much closer than Kata’s is to BM.

Proof Zoro is closer to his captain in strength than other YC1s ?

--- Double Post Merged, Aug 30, 2022, Original Post Date: Aug 30, 2022 ---

How do human top tiers like Mihawk or Shanks make up for their low durability ?

They can probably be taken out by a few hits from other Yonko but the other Yonko will take several hits to be put down.

I used to think FS might have something to do with it but Kaido has FS too. Are human top tiers just better at using FS or do they have much higher AP so they can take out non-human Yonko in a few hits too ?

How does say Shanks fight Kaido when one TB might be enough to KO him ? Does he use FS to dodge all of his attacks ? Maybe his FS-cancelling might have something to do with it ? Do other human top tiers like Mihawk, Roger and WB have something similar ? Do they use their blades to block attacks rather than taking them on their body ? What about Garp ? Can they maybe use full-body Haki to give them Kaido/BM level durability ?

No luffy and the Strawhats are still newbies
Plus luffy is splitting the credit for defeating big mum/kaido with kidd and law
Plus kaido has 1.5 billi on luffy as does big mum roughly and neither are worlds stronger than him