One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[albertwv]

It was revealed in a vivre card she has all 3 haki's and on Amazon Lily it was stated she was their best haki user, I believe during Luffy's fight with the sisters.

You can be a haki master without mastering all the advanced forms. Being able to utilize haki with complete control proves your mastery. She has utilized haki for years.

Luffy had CoC mastered during Fishman Island when he knocked out 50,000 Fishman. Even without advanced forms he had mastery of it

Yeah I guess if her sisters can use CoO, then so can Hancock.
I guess we both have different opinions on what "mastered" means. I think Post TS Luffy (before WCI), had learned to control and use the basics of the 3 Hakis. BUT not until he learned Future Sight (ACoO), Emission (ACoA) and Supreme King Coating (ACoC) was when he MASTERED all 3 Hakis.

Doffy was a 3 Hakis user, but he never showed any advance forms of any Haki, therefore I wouldn't say he mastered it. Actually so far Doffy has shown better Haki proficiency than Hancock.

We literally saw Hancock lose to BB. Hancock didn't look like she broke a sweat turning the 2 Yonko commanders, VA, and fodder into stone. So I'm guessing it was a 1v1 with BB and she lost the edge once BB grabbed her and turned off her power. She could have still kicked him with a CoA kick but it looked like she was helpless and was about to die if Rayleigh had not stepped in. So Ihighly doubt Hancock could beat BB in a real 1v1.
I find it difficult to place Hancock as YC1 due to her inferior haki skills, compared to other YC1s.

@Lobo , no only Blackbeard stated that he himself would succumb to her power + beauty and turn to stone. This does not mean that so would the other top tiers. Blackbeard looks like the pirate to lust over anything and let his emotions take over. Kaido not so much unless he's drunk. Shanks not really. Big Mom, I don't think she would be attracted to Hancock. etc. etc.
Just because BB admitted he would lose does not mean so would the other top tiers.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Unless the character is asexual, blind, or stabs themselves they likely succumb to Hancock's powers.

When it is shown a big enough haki can cancel her power Ala Law v Kaido/Big Mom, I'll adjust my expectations. But unt then it is Canon her ability works on everyone save for those exceptions

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 15, 2022, Original Post Date: Sep 15, 2022 ---

Yeah I guess if her sisters can use CoO, then so can Hancock.
I guess we both have different opinions on what "mastered" means. I think Post TS Luffy (before WCI), had learned to control and use the basics of the 3 Hakis. BUT not until he learned Future Sight (ACoO), Emission (ACoA) and Supreme King Coating (ACoC) was when he MASTERED all 3 Hakis.

Doffy was a 3 Hakis user, but he never showed any advance forms of any Haki, therefore I wouldn't say he mastered it. Actually so far Doffy has shown better Haki proficiency than Hancock.

We literally saw Hancock lose to BB. Hancock didn't look like she broke a sweat turning the 2 Yonko commanders, VA, and fodder into stone. So I'm guessing it was a 1v1 with BB and she lost the edge once BB grabbed her and turned off her power. She could have still kicked him with a CoA kick but it looked like she was helpless and was about to die if Rayleigh had not stepped in. So Ihighly doubt Hancock could beat BB in a real 1v1.
I find it difficult to place Hancock as YC1 due to her inferior haki skills, compared to other YC1s.

@Lobo , no only Blackbeard stated that he himself would succumb to her power + beauty and turn to stone. This does not mean that so would the other top tiers. Blackbeard looks like the pirate to lust over anything and let his emotions take over. Kaido not so much unless he's drunk. Shanks not really. Big Mom, I don't think she would be attracted to Hancock. etc. etc.
Just because BB admitted he would lose does not mean so would the other top tiers.

It literally was the opposite of a 1v1. She was alone against w separate armies. Her focus wasn't solely on BB and to say she has inferior haki skills to other YC1's is strange and baseless as well. How can you even determine that?

And this isn't coming out of a place of annoyance or anything but you have to admit all of your points are basically assumptions.

You can't possibly know Doflamingo has better haki proficiency than Hancock simply because Doflamingo had a drawn out battle and Hancock didn't.

I mean even Kaido was nearly taken out by Oden. Top tiers are allowed to get blindsided, they aren't invincible

Kaido and Hanock were equally put in a position of disadvantage and needed 3rd party interference, it doesn't make them any less stronger. At least Hancocm had an excuse. She was also fight off 2 invading forces

 

[albertwv]

Unless the character is asexual, blind, or stabs themselves they likely succumb to Hancock's powers.

When it is shown a big enough haki can cancel her power Ala Law v Kaido/Big Mom, I'll adjust my expectations. But unt then it is Canon her ability works on everyone save for those exceptions

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 15, 2022, Original Post Date: Sep 15, 2022 ---

It literally was the opposite of a 1v1. She was alone against w separate armies. Her focus wasn't solely on BB and to say she has inferior haki skills to other YC1's is strange and baseless as well. How can you even determine that?

And this isn't coming out of a place of annoyance or anything but you have to admit all of your points are basically assumptions.

You can't possibly know Doflamingo has better haki proficiency than Hancock simply because Doflamingo had a drawn out battle and Hancock didn't.

I mean even Kaido was nearly taken out by Oden. Top tiers are allowed to get blindsided, they aren't invincible

Kaido and Hanock were equally put in a position of disadvantage and needed 3rd party interference, it doesn't make them any less stronger. At least Hancocm had an excuse. She was also fight off 2 invading forces

Not until she shows us Advance forms of Haki than can we claim she is YC1 material. Katakuri has ACoO, and an incredibly strong CoA (stronger than Doffy's, Cracker's and WCI Luffy), King literally has a strong defense that Zolo needed to use ACoC to defeat him. Marco and Beck can't speak much of them.
Since Hancock has not shown anything as powerful as that in Haki, I can make that "baseless" assumption that she has inferior Haki skills.
She may very well have advance Haki and be stronger than the YC1s but so far depiction has shown that she isn't. BB claimed he would be turned to stone if he let her go, does not necessarily mean Hancock > BB in strength. Just like I mentioned Sugar. If Sugar vs BB and BB had no prior knowledge then he would lose, just so would Roger, Garp, Kaido, Shanks, etc etc. Her DF is broken.
(This is an "Assumption") I doubt Oda would allow that type of logic for storyline purposes.

 

[Rmstorm]

Yeah I guess if her sisters can use CoO, then so can Hancock.
I guess we both have different opinions on what "mastered" means. I think Post TS Luffy (before WCI), had learned to control and use the basics of the 3 Hakis. BUT not until he learned Future Sight (ACoO), Emission (ACoA) and Supreme King Coating (ACoC) was when he MASTERED all 3 Hakis.

Doffy was a 3 Hakis user, but he never showed any advance forms of any Haki, therefore I wouldn't say he mastered it. Actually so far Doffy has shown better Haki proficiency than Hancock.

We literally saw Hancock lose to BB. Hancock didn't look like she broke a sweat turning the 2 Yonko commanders, VA, and fodder into stone. So I'm guessing it was a 1v1 with BB and she lost the edge once BB grabbed her and turned off her power. She could have still kicked him with a CoA kick but it looked like she was helpless and was about to die if Rayleigh had not stepped in. So Ihighly doubt Hancock could beat BB in a real 1v1.
I find it difficult to place Hancock as YC1 due to her inferior haki skills, compared to other YC1s.

@Lobo , no only Blackbeard stated that he himself would succumb to her power + beauty and turn to stone. This does not mean that so would the other top tiers. Blackbeard looks like the pirate to lust over anything and let his emotions take over. Kaido not so much unless he's drunk. Shanks not really. Big Mom, I don't think she would be attracted to Hancock. etc. etc.
Just because BB admitted he would lose does not mean so would the other top tiers.

Luffy was a master of the basics of all 3 haki. Rayleigh said Luffy was to master the basics of all 3 haki.

 

[Hibari Kyoya]

I didnt say she had advanced forms. Just that she has mastery over all 3

Okay. What evidence is there that she is a master of CoC or CoO? As far as I know she's just stated as a user of both. We have no evidence from any manga page or databook that she has mastered CoC or CoO, her CoO could be the worst of any character in the series for all we know.

Same applies to any character that has their Haki stated from a databook, we know they can use it but until they show it onscreen there is no evidence of whether they are terrible or amazing.

 

[grey matter]

Not until she shows us Advance forms of Haki than can we claim she is YC1 material. Katakuri has ACoO, and an incredibly strong CoA (stronger than Doffy's, Cracker's and WCI Luffy), King literally has a strong defense that Zolo needed to use ACoC to defeat him. Marco and Beck can't speak much of them.
Since Hancock has not shown anything as powerful as that in Haki, I can make that "baseless" assumption that she has inferior Haki skills.
She may very well have advance Haki and be stronger than the YC1s but so far depiction has shown that she isn't. BB claimed he would be turned to stone if he let her go, does not necessarily mean Hancock > BB in strength. Just like I mentioned Sugar. If Sugar vs BB and BB had no prior knowledge then he would lose, just so would Roger, Garp, Kaido, Shanks, etc etc. Her DF is broken.
(This is an "Assumption") I doubt Oda would allow that type of logic for storyline purposes.

Yep, or just the realization that pain would counter most of Boa's DF abilities.

BB is portrayed as smart in certain situations, but also dumb in others. It is possible that he didn't realize the trick. but if characters like Momonga can realize it, I'd guess a lot of the high level fighters would recognize it either.

With intel, it doesn't even seem broken, in fact looks like it is kinda hard countered.
I suppose the nerf from self injury has to be taken into account as well, since most people will be forced to injure themselves to continue fighting. Plus, it seems like her kicks don't need the enemy to feel lust, since she was kicking randoms and their body parts were becoming stone without them showing any sighs of lust.


How strong is Boa without her hax? Doesn't look like she has some high stats, advanced conqueror's etc, like some of her fans were predicting.
I'd overall put her in the same tier as Doflamingo. Both have some hax which can defeat their opponents quickly if caught of guard, but overall they aren't anywhere near YC1 tier.


Also, maybe it was just an offscreen thing, but it looked to me like Boa came out of the castle and instantly used the slave arrows, which means the attack which turned most of those to stone probably caught offguard. Maybe the BB captains would've dodged if they knew it was coming.
I mean, Coby and Blackbeard did dodge the arrows, for what it's worth.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Okay. What evidence is there that she is a master of CoC or CoO? As far as I know she's just stated as a user of both. We have no evidence from any manga page or databook that she has mastered CoC or CoO, her CoO could be the worst of any character in the series for all we know.

Same applies to any character that has their Haki stated from a databook, we know they can use it but until they show it onscreen there is no evidence of whether they are terrible or amazing.

She comes from an island of haki users, a rarity were EVERY SINGLE warrior is a competent haki user of which she is the undeniable strongest Warrior with the strongest haki among them.

There are thing you do not need to be spoon feed.

Until this chapter people were seriously claims BB didn't have CoA despite how absurd that would be yet they ignore context and said he didn't have it

So sure, I guess if you need to be spoon fed that Hancock is a competent user of all 3 haki's you can just wait. I'm not going to pretend she is anything but. Just like I'm not going to pretend that BB doesn't have CoO or something similar.

What would be silly is me saying she had advanced forms, which would be a claim without evidence.

 

[HereNThere]

Oda spent the last two chapters gassing up the former Shichibukai and solidifying their relevance during the last stretch. I highly doubt Hancock isn't a master of the basics of haki. Hell, Crocodile has no feats of haki to his name and hasn't even been said to have it in the supplementary material, but we should assume he is a master as well.

We're in the end game. Certain characters should just be given the benefit of the doubt at this point. As mentioned, Blackbeard had no haki feats until this past chapter. Shiryu has no haki feats, yet he's going to be going up against AdCoC Zoro at some point in the future. Kidd's haki was highlighted all of 0 chapters, yet we can assume he was fighting with it against Big Mom.

 

[Pirate Queen]

And as goofy as I get with Hancock, I don't care if you place her at YC3. I think your wrong but I don't care.

What I do care about is placing here at YC 3 because of baseless claims like: using her hax against her, claiming she isn't a competent haki user, or because she got caught by BB and using that against her like it was a fair 1v1.

I have 6 people that I rank in the YC1+ position(not quite Yonko tier but on the cusp): Yamato, Beckman, Zoro, Marco, Croc(retconned) and Hancock, and her abilities COMFORTABLY puts her above every singe one of them.

She is the closet thing to a Yonko yet, without being named one (strength wise)

 

[I Am Atomic]

I have 6 people that I rank in the YC1+ position(not quite Yonko tier but on the cusp): Yamato, Beckman, Zoro, Marco, Croc(retconned) and Hancock, and her abilities COMFORTABLY puts her above every singe one of them.

I am not going to place Hancock on a tier because we haven't seen much of her. But, I do not agree with you here. What abilities she has puts her above the characters you listed above?

Yamato: she doesn't seem to be interested in females
Zoro: again he is not interested in girls. For all we know, he could be same as Luffy
Marco: we do not know if his flames can protect him from her DF
Beckman: he is supposed to be on the same tier as Shanks
Croc: again, nothing shows he is interested in women. He could have been a woman before lol

If Momonga can use pain to stop himself from being turned to stone, so can others.

No idea where she ranks, but she is definitely not comfortably above those characters.

Unless you are talking about her turning everyone to stone if you catch them off guard, then so can Sugar

 

[Pirate Queen]

I am not going to place Hancock on a tier because we haven't seen much of her. But, I do not agree with you here. What abilities she has puts her above the characters you listed above?

Yamato: she doesn't seem to be interested in females
Zoro: again he is not interested in girls. For all we know, he could be same as Luffy
Marco: we do not know if his flames can protect him from her DF
Beckman: he is supposed to be on the same tier as Shanks
Croc: again, nothing shows he is interested in women. He could have been a woman before lol

If Momonga can use pain to stop himself from being turned to stone, so can others.

No idea where she ranks, but she is definitely not comfortably above those characters.

Unless you are talking about her turning everyone to stone if you catch them off guard, then so can Sugar

Sugar has no combat feats. Hancock does.

And she can turn you to stone whether you find her attractive or not. It's just easier when you do find her attractive

Marco's flames being able to protect him from her makes no sense

Crocodile is also strange because women also turn to stone by finding her attractive. It's not a men only thing

Beckman was stated to be equal in Shanks in renown, not combat ability.

Zoro is likely Asexual so he probably had a good chance against her, still ranking her above him tho. She can turn inanimate objects to stole ad well so we can't rule out her being able to turn his swords into stone. There is precedence for it.

 

[kkck]

There is a drawback to the fruit. You literally have to be the most beautiful woman in the world to be the most hax the DC can provide

If Hancock ages and turns into a Big Mom like character.. Her DF stops working.

She can't stay the most beautiful forever. Eventually her looks will fade.

If hancock ages like shakuyaku then she will remain OP until the day old age kills her. It's also worth noting hancock's fruit is pretty strong even without that. If not strong, at a minimum versatile. Her slave arrow is nothing to scoff at.

 

[I Am Atomic]

And she can turn you to stone whether you find her attractive or not. It's just easier when you do find her attractive

Marco's flames being able to protect him from her makes no sense

Crocodile is also strange because women also turn to stone by finding her attractive. It's not a men only thing

Beckman was stated to be equal in Shanks in renown, not combat ability.

Zoro is likely Asexual so he probably had a good chance against her, still ranking her above him tho. She can turn inanimate objects to stole ad well so we can't rule out her being able to turn his swords into stone. There is precedence for it.

Marcos flame makes the most sense to me. He can cut his body off because he can regenerate. Phoenix doesn't die.

I agree that women can turn to stone too. But the ones that turned to stone are the ones who are in love with her. Only works if you are infatuated.

Turning to stone is on the same tier as Croc cause his right hand can dry people to death. Just because your ability can do that doesn't mean everyone is susceptible to it.

I still think you rank her too high. She is strong but not that strong.

 

[Pirate Queen]

I still think you rank her too high. She is strong but not that strong.

Fair, but I have let my bias' known. I'm not keeping it a secret. I know I am likely the least qualified to argue her case here, but I can at least comment on factually Canon information to argue my case

 

[DeadlyBeast]

With the retcon that Oda has done with the Warlords as a whole and the feats Hancock has shown I think its clear she is a YC level fighter at a minimum. Considering her powers, I think she is definitely YC1 range since even other commander level fighters & even Yonko are susceptible to her abilities. Yes this is hax but it is what it is. BB didn't want to let her go since he knew he'd be a goner - this should count for something.

There are other characters to me that are strong and have similar hax abilities. Two that stand out are Caesar & Magellan. There really isn't anything anyone can do to save themselves once poisoned. I don't know why we keep bringing up characters like Sugar when we know other strong fighters with hax abilities that no one is like well they are weak if it wasn't for their ability. Heck I recall that one random marine that rusted Zoro's swords and apparently could do the same with human bodies. Crocodile can mummify people, Perona can make them depressed. Hax abilities are a dime a dozen and the few times we've seen hax+ powerful fighter, those individuals are overpowered.

I think what is still needed to know where in the range of YC1 to Yonko Hancock falls is an actual fight where we can see her haki skills, versatility of her DF, and learn how other powerful opponents could potentially resist it. This will provide clarity on where in that range she is but there shouldn't be a question that she is in that range.

 

[I Am Atomic]

Fair, but I have let my bias' known. I'm not keeping it a secret. I know I am likely the least qualified to argue her case here, but I can at least comment on factually Canon information to argue my case

I didn't think your biased pov came into the discussion at all (only when you made her Yonko tier but I think that was a joke).

Her not being YC1+ is just my opinion too. Not facts!

Healthy discussion (finally!)

 

[kkck]

I am not sure of where to rank hancock tbh. Or if her power can even be ranked. I've always thought she was among the more dangerous shichibukai from back in the day, higher than doflamingo and jinbe at least. What makes the most sense to me is that hancock would be in the ballpark of calamities or sweet commanders and definitely short of a yonko.

 

[grey matter]

I have 6 people that I rank in the YC1+ position(not quite Yonko tier but on the cusp): Yamato, Beckman, Zoro, Marco, Croc(retconned) and Hancock, and her abilities COMFORTABLY puts her above every singe one of them.

You missed Law and Kid in that tier.

I don't think Crocodile is there either. He probably has been retconned, but I'll wait for feats confirming that before I'll put him there.
His feats in Marineford (where he was already retconned) put him at YC3 tier at best, he was portrayed below Doflamingo (who's YC3 tier) and Jozu (YC2/YC2+ probably)

Beckman is portrayed to be somewhat relative to Shanks, no way he loses to Hancock.

Actually scratch that, if Momonga can figure out the way around her hax, what makes you think all those you listed won't? Maybe they already know, since she's kinda famous.
I think her kicks may still be effective, but the insta stone hax wouldn't work anymore.

Once they know the trick, she isn't beating anyone you listed there, bar maybe Crocodile (who I don't consider in that tier either, for now at least)

I am not sure of where to rank hancock tbh. Or if her power can even be ranked. I've always thought she was among the more dangerous shichibukai from back in the day, higher than doflamingo and jinbe at least. What makes the most sense to me is that hancock would be in the ballpark of calamities or sweet commanders and definitely short of a yonko.

I don't think she's above Doflamingo, they're probably relative to each other. Aokiji mentioned them along the same lines, while stating Doffy was more dangerous.

Yonko Commander tier seems about right.
Taking in account her hax, she can fit anywhere from YC2+ to YC3. Putting her up with characters like King and Katakuri however, is too much.
is too much.

 

[Pirate Queen]

You missed Law and Kid in that tier.

I don't think Crocodile is there either. He probably has been retconned, but I'll wait for feats confirming that before I'll put him there.
His feats in Marineford (where he was already retconned) put him at YC3 tier at best, he was portrayed below Doflamingo (who's YC3 tier) and Jozu (YC2/YC2+ probably)

Beckman is portrayed to be somewhat relative to Shanks, no way he loses to Hancock.

Actually scratch that, if Momonga can figure out the way around her hax, what makes you think all those you listed won't? Maybe they already know, since she's kinda famous.
I think her kicks may still be effective, but the insta stone hax wouldn't work anymore.

Once they know the trick, she isn't beating anyone you listed there, bar maybe Crocodile (who I don't consider in that tier either, for now at least)



I don't think she's above Doflamingo, they're probably relative to each other. Aokiji mentioned them along the same lines, while stating Doffy was more dangerous.

Yonko Commander tier seems about right.
Taking in account her hax, she can fit anywhere from YC2+ to YC3. Putting her up with characters like King and Katakuri however, is too much.
is too much.

Your right, Law and Kidd. I miss them quite a bit actually. Constantly need to be reminded about them.

I think Kidd and Law would be just as susceptible as BB.

They would have to hurt them selves consistently throughout the fight with her. It's not one stab and they are immune lol.

Momonga stopped 1 attack and it was her base attack lol If Hancock had pressed he would have had to do it again. What's he going to do against hundreds of slave arrows? Nah. I'm pretty confident in my assessment of here, whether one claims bias or not.

If Bb was afraid of her beating him, I'm confidant in what I have said so far unless the conditions I noted have been met.

For instance, Fujitota likely Low Difs her due to his blindness and heightened CoO

 

[kkck]

I don't think she's above Doflamingo, they're probably relative to each other. Aokiji mentioned them along the same lines, while stating Doffy was more dangerous.

Yonko Commander tier seems about right.
Taking in account her hax, she can fit anywhere from YC2+ to YC3. Putting her up with characters like King and Katakuri however, is too much.
is too much.

I have doflamingo below calamities-sweet commanders though. I would argue cracker demonstrated being a fair bit above doflamingo. If anything, what made yonko crews so dangerous is that even middle of the pack commanders were probably at least difficult fights for doflamingo.