One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[albertwv]

People were expecting Lucci (a fan favorite) to come back strong AF, but IMO he came back too strong that it made no sense how he got so powerful. In a sense these 2 years, Lucci went from below VA to YC1 level. No other character to include Luffy did that huge jump, without actual training and enduring life-threatening battles against major opponents.
it would be ideal to receive a small backstory on how the hell did Lucci get so goddamn strong. I can't think of any characters that Lucci was trained by AND fought hard battles with to get where he is, like Luffy did.

Someone mentioned it perfectly in how world building development, Oda did a great job. To recap, we got told in the manga that after 300 million mostly nobody gets a bounty higher than that and they stay stagnant or so. Luffy got 400 million and then 500 million, which made sense.
Then after Dressrosa we met Jack with a 1 billion bounty, like holy crap. In WCI we learned and came up with the Yonko Commander Levels and saw that 600m-1b bounties were the threshold for such levels. With Luffy only having a 500m, it gave you a sense on how strong (dangerous) these Commanders were. No Warlord had been giving a bounty that high before they were frozen, which made me think why did the WG decide to make those pirates with lower than 500m Warlords. It's like asking Cavendish or Pekoms or even Caribou to become Warlords.
We witnessed how long and difficult it was for Luffy to handle 2 Commanders, what he had to go through and so on.
Then with the Yonkos who were hyped up to be nearly invincible, many people in this thread wondered how Kaido and BM were going to be taken down in Onigashima. Yet we saw how BM was treated badly and how almost anybody was able to harm Kaido out of nowhere and how Law/Kid received asspull power ups. Even Franky and Robin asspulled their victories.
What I mean by asspull is that Oda didn't bother to give a good explanation or show how they reached that level, Law went from getting his ass kicked by a YC3 to enduring BM's attacks.
The only ones I found that made sense were Luffy (who went through so much shit but even then it wasn't entirely his own win), Zolo who trained and received a legendary sword and learned ACoC (which was a semi-asspull because he skipped ACoA) and Sanji who received the Raid Suit and then unlocked his genetic cyborg body. At least they had an explanation on how they became stronger enough to face their mighty opponents. Kid, Law, Robin, Franky, the 9 Red Scabbards did not.

Oda created all world building power scale only to have it crash down.

 

[Core D. Roy]

People were expecting Lucci (a fan favorite) to come back strong AF, but IMO he came back too strong that it made no sense how he got so powerful. In a sense these 2 years, Lucci went from below VA to YC1 level. No other character to include Luffy did that huge jump, without actual training and enduring life-threatening battles against major opponents.
it would be ideal to receive a small backstory on how the hell did Lucci get so goddamn strong. I can't think of any characters that Lucci was trained by AND fought hard battles with to get where he is, like Luffy did.

I for one am glad that there are other characters who have had huge growth rates. Luffy, Zoro, and Sanji shouldn't be the only characters in the series to have such a radical glow-up post-TS. People are going to be pissed about Coby as well, because I'm putting money on him and Sabo both being around current Lucci's level. What's the alternative? Literally every pre-TS character just stays the same or at best goes up half-an-inch in the tier list?

Did you forget about the cover story of Lucci being chased by the WG itself and somehow coming out on top? We GOT the mini-story, Lucci GOT the life-threatening scenario, we don't need to see how many sit-ups he did or what protein juice he had or what specific opponent he faced to know for a fact he went through some heavy shit during the timeskip, leveled up, and had an explosive growth rate because he's a top-tier CP member.

It amazes me that despite even having hints here and there with cover story arcs, people are still just BAFFLED at how anyone else in the entire world could have leveled up anywhere near as much as Luffy/Zoro/Sanji.

Again, you're doing way more harm than good relying on bounties to determine your powerscaling. They are only the loosest of loose indicators as to a person's "power level".

 

[M3J]

Well because power scaling is off, many times. For example Zoro had a long fight with Pica, who wasnt even YC3 level. And 2 arc after, without any visible powerups he suddenly beat Yc1 King within 2 chapters

What kind of lack of critical thinking is this?

 

[kkck]

I for one am glad that there are other characters who have had huge growth rates. Luffy, Zoro, and Sanji shouldn't be the only characters in the series to have such a radical glow-up post-TS. People are going to be pissed about Coby as well, because I'm putting money on him and Sabo both being around current Lucci's level. What's the alternative? Literally every pre-TS character just stays the same or at best goes up half-an-inch in the tier list?

Did you forget about the cover story of Lucci being chased by the WG itself and somehow coming out on top? We GOT the mini-story, Lucci GOT the life-threatening scenario, we don't need to see how many sit-ups he did or what protein juice he had or what specific opponent he faced to know for a fact he went through some heavy shit during the timeskip, leveled up, and had an explosive growth rate because he's a top-tier CP member.

It amazes me that despite even having hints here and there with cover story arcs, people are still just BAFFLED at how anyone else in the entire world could have leveled up anywhere near as much as Luffy/Zoro/Sanji.

Again, you're doing way more harm than good relying on bounties to determine your powerscaling. They are only the loosest of loose indicators as to a person's "power level".

Welp, because to begin with luffy/zoro/sanji/law/kid growth rates were already baffling, if not outright stupid and plot breaking. Sure, give these assholes with unique importance to the overall plot the power to overcome powers that had been fixed staples of the new world's power structure for literal decades. Even sanji who got to the queen fight with a negative amount of feats, growth or fights. And then... a complete rando like lucci pops up to hold his ground against a yonko? However much a genius lucci is, he lost to a rookie 10 years younger than him. Lucci's genius should be completely irrelevant to any of the younger supernova who were in the ballpark of him 2 years back. On top of that, there are some fairly large power gaps between characters. If the story had any amount of consistency lucci being even in the ballpark of doflamingo would already way more than it made sense for him. Oda already pulled the cork on this one so we just have to accept that when big mom and kaido strutted around they would one shot anyone who isn't an admiral but now that luffy is a yonko people who can hold their own against yonko and billion belly bounties will spontaneously appear. And the story is all the worst for it.

 

[DeadlyBeast]

Being a Yonko does not mean instant one hit KOs against all YC level fighters.

I don't get why Lucci's small fight with Luffy is causing so many issues for people's power level rankings. At the moment we have no credible feats to say what level Lucci is actually at aside from him being at least a YC3. People are losing their shit over Lucci's growth but what has he honestly done that is so impressive that it breaks power scaling?

To summarize the fight:

• Lucci showed he's awakened same as multiple other fighters across a range of levels from Jailer Beasts to Luffy (the only officially awakened Yonko)!
• Lucci couldn't land a single hit on Luffy despite giving it his best effort
• Lucci was losing consciousness from a second hit from Luffy, one in which he wasn't even using aCoC
• Lucci displayed use of CoA like many other fighters

Is any of the above feats really that insane? Does anyone not think someone like Doffy a YC3 level fighter couldn't pull off a similar interaction with Luffy as Lucci did?

 

[Core D. Roy]

And the story is all the worst for it.

The alternative is have another timeskip, and/or add another decade or two of publication before Wano to have everyone below Emperor/Admiral 'reasonable' time to catch up organically. This is such a minute complaint to claim the story is "all the worst (sic) for it".

 

[DeadlyBeast]

The alternative is have another timeskip, and/or add another decade or two of publication before Wano to have everyone below Emperor/Admiral 'reasonable' time to catch up organically. This is such a minute complaint to claim the story is "all the worst (sic) for it".

Unfortunately, in shounen the alternative is Dragon Ball/Naruto where a select few characters become insanely overpowered and everyone else from the earlier part of the story become irrelevant. Personally I much prefer what we have happening in OP where characters from earlier in the story stay relevant.

 

[kkck]

The alternative is have another timeskip, and/or add another decade or two of publication before Wano to have everyone below Emperor/Admiral 'reasonable' time to catch up organically. This is such a minute complaint to claim the story is "all the worst (sic) for it".

Welp, with how the story has handled the past few arcs you could have, say, tashigi show up and straight up be an admiral level fighter and it would be completely in line with how oda has handled character growth. Last time we saw her she could clad her sword in haki so she is a measly 3 nonsense haki powerups from full blown yonko level. Heck, consider how many characters could show up next chapter with billion belly bounties and admiral level combat capacity: Literally all of them. I mean, the strawhat's growth is not even special, people across the board clearly have it.

 

[grey matter]

Maaaan, stop overblowing what Lucci did lmao.

As an actual Lucci-tard, I was disappointed by Lucci's actual performance.
I expected him to be as strong as Sabo (who I have at YC1+).
Instead what we got was Luffy essentially treated him like a joke, didn't even use advanced conquerors (and even armament) haki, dodged all his attacks and like 3 shotted him (well Lucci is fine ultimately but you get the point).

There isn't enough material to put him even near YC1 level, let alone YC1+
I suppose YC2 is probably reasonable.

I would see why people would complain if he was YC1+, even tho personally I would've loved that due to my biases.
Why can't Lucci even get to a YC2 level without it breaking the powerscaling? Mind you, he himself (and other CP9) had his mini arc in the covers where he was chased by the marines/WG. Why would they take back Lucci and Kaku inspite of this? Probably because they did what Mihawk did on a lower scale, decimated everyone sent after them (while getting stronger with each victory), so much that the marines/WG were convinced of their powers and rehired them.


And lastly, to address the notion that Lucci is some random who lost to Luffy while being older.
1. Lucci and co stagnated for 5+ years while undercover
2. Lucci isn't even that old, he's a bit older than Law who randomly skyrocketed between Dressrosa and Wano.
3. Lucci was treated as a legendary figure by both marines and WG, even vice admirals treated him as such. Clearly the narrative of him is a bit different than what his pre TS feats suggest, this is because Oda didn't plan for OP that much ahead back then

 

[albertwv]

It's okay with everybody for Lucci to come back as a YC1+ then imagine if Arlong, Kuro, Krieg, heck even Foxy came back and were Yonko Executive level pirates. Lucci was at the pinnacle of the Paradise and now he is near the pinnacle of the New World. Lucci and the rest of CP9 were chased by low level Marines from the cover stories, I think the highest was Captain Very Good LOL, you think that compares to Luffy being chased by the huge beasts in the island he trained?
What I am saying is that Lucci did an unexplainable nonsensical jump that not even Luffy did.
Heck Coby was trained by Garp, became the Rocky Port Hero that seem to include Law, BB, and some former Xebec Pirate and only reached Rear Admiral level. Yet Lucci, who we have no actual background on how he trained or who he fought, becomes this strong.
I would understand if Lucci came back as a YC3, Doffy's level but to be YC1, no way.
Usually huge unexplainable power jumps are reserved for the main cast because somehow they have amazing potential unlike anyone else. Like in the 2 years of OP, Luffy and Zolo and Sanji have accomplished what other YC level characters took years to reach. That doesn't make sense but for the sake of the story and because they are the main cast, it is allowed.

 

[grey matter]

It's okay with everybody for Lucci to come back as a YC1+ then imagine if Arlong, Kuro, Krieg, heck even Foxy came back and were Yonko Executive level pirates. Lucci was at the pinnacle of the Paradise and now he is near the pinnacle of the New World. Lucci and the rest of CP9 were chased by low level Marines from the cover stories, I think the highest was Captain Very Good LOL, you think that compares to Luffy being chased by the huge beasts in the island he trained?
What I am saying is that Lucci did an unexplainable nonsensical jump that not even Luffy did.
Heck Coby was trained by Garp, became the Rocky Port Hero that seem to include Law, BB, and some former Xebec Pirate and only reached Rear Admiral level. Yet Lucci, who we have no actual background on how he trained or who he fought, becomes this strong.
I would understand if Lucci came back as a YC3, Doffy's level but to be YC1, no way.
Usually huge unexplainable power jumps are reserved for the main cast because somehow they have amazing potential unlike anyone else. Like in the 2 years of OP, Luffy and Zolo and Sanji have accomplished what other YC level characters took years to reach. That doesn't make sense but for the sake of the story and because they are the main cast, it is allowed.

Dude, as I've explained in my post, Lucci is NOT a YC1+. His feats don't even suggest that he's YC1
He's probably like YC2

So what are you complaining about lol?

 

[albertwv]

Dude, as I've explained in my post, Lucci is NOT a YC1+. His feats don't even suggest that he's YC1
He's probably like YC2

So what are you complaining about lol?

Most of the people here think he is YC1+ and some even go as far as claiming he is CP0's strongest member, when there is no evidence. IMO, I place the CP0 who interfere (Guernica) in Luffy vs Kaido as the ring leader/strongest or the one who fled Wano, either one of those two. I don't expect Lucci or Kaku who are fairly new to CP0 to be stronger than them, who seem to be seniors since they were first introduce in the series as CP0.
Stussy, I have no place to rank her.
Although from seeing CP0 Maha fight an injured Izo, who IMO is a Yonko Executive, I would place general CP0's at the YE or VA levels.

 

[Nie Li]

Most of the people here think he is YC1+ and some even go as far as claiming he is CP0's strongest member, when there is no evidence. IMO, I place the CP0 who interfere (Guernica) in Luffy vs Kaido as the ring leader/strongest or the one who fled Wano, either one of those two. I don't expect Lucci or Kaku who are fairly new to CP0 to be stronger than them, who seem to be seniors since they were first introduce in the series as CP0.
Stussy, I have no place to rank her.
Although from seeing CP0 Maha fight an injured Izo, who IMO is a Yonko Executive, I would place general CP0's at the YE or VA levels.

Being senior doesn't imply being stronger. It's good if you expect(ed) them to be, but it would be an error to mistake assumptions for facts.

 

[grey matter]

Most of the people here think he is YC1+ and some even go as far as claiming he is CP0's strongest member, when there is no evidence. IMO, I place the CP0 who interfere (Guernica) in Luffy vs Kaido as the ring leader/strongest or the one who fled Wano, either one of those two. I don't expect Lucci or Kaku who are fairly new to CP0 to be stronger than them, who seem to be seniors since they were first introduce in the series as CP0.
Stussy, I have no place to rank her.
Although from seeing CP0 Maha fight an injured Izo, who IMO is a Yonko Executive, I would place general CP0's at the YE or VA levels.

People thought he was YC1+ before he got clowned on by Luffy without using advanced haki. I doubt there are many people who think of him as that high currently.

And again, you're the one complaining about Lucci supposedly being YC1+ lol, seems like you believe it yourself or else why complain about Lucci's powerlevel?

Nah, Lucci and possibly Kaku are stronger than the CP0 boss in Wano. I don't think there is any implication that he is stronger than Lucci/Kaku. Lucci especially has high respect/portrayal from Oda.
That boss guy in Wano was at max a YC3 tier guy.
Lucci has enough stats to clash equally with a G5 Luffy using considerable amount of basic armament haki, meaning Lucci's pure stats are quite high. But seems like that's all he has, good basic haki and attack power. I'd put him at around YC2 level.
Kaku casually produced his strongest pre TS attack in his base, meaning he also improved considerably as well.


I don't see a narrative issue with Lucci getting to say YC2 level.
He has a legendary status amongst govt and marine officials pre TS. Had a very special flashback scene showing he was a natural born monster.
If he trained his ass off and got DF awakening, I see no reason why he shouldn't be YC2. Luffy and possibly Zoro reached YC3 level right out of TS. So why not Lucci, who probably had a harder path than pure training in those two years (due to being chased by marines until they possibly recognized the value of CP9)?

 

[Fox666]

Lucci is quite powerful

If he was a pirate, he could now get a bounty of 2 or 3 billion

Too bad he had to fight Luffy

 

[grey matter]

Lucci is quite powerful

If he was a pirate, he could now get a bounty of 2 or 3 billion

Too bad he had to fight Luffy

2 or 3 billion won't get clowned on by Luffy with just basic armament haki, like Lucci got. Replace Lucci by Sabo and Luffy is pulling up his advanced haki.

Like, imagine G5 with base armament haki against King or Marco. King no sell everything, Marco gives him a run for his money if not maybe barely take it.

But who knows at this point lol, Crocodile has 2 billion, maybe Oda's standard changed.

 

[BlackTiger]

2 or 3 billion won't get clowned on by Luffy with just basic armament haki, like Lucci got. Replace Lucci by Sabo and Luffy is pulling up his advanced haki.

Like, imagine G5 with base armament haki against King or Marco. King no sell everything, Marco gives him a run for his money if not maybe barely take it.

But who knows at this point lol, Crocodile has 2 billion, maybe Oda's standard changed.

lol Marco probably cannot beat WCI Luffy. He kicks less harder than pre exoskeleton Sanji. His puny kicks won't be enough to take down Luffy who tanked multiple CoC coating from Kaido. His regen also has limit. Luffy could outlast Marco for 10 hours. Marco can't outlast Luffy with his regen. He was fighting King and Queen for 30 minutes and he was already out of stamina. How would he fight Luffy for 10 hours.

Marco is the only YC1 that current Sanji can beat now judging by how Sanji with power up immediately disposed Queen while Queen ignored Marco and wasn't forced to use his hybrid form. Even the damage Queen took from Marco was gone 1 chapter later.

Gear 5 Luffy with CoC coating could 1 shot King/Marco and would still struggle to beat Katakuri since Gear 5 is much slower than Snakeman which scales to Katakuri in speed.

 

[grey matter]

lol Marco probably cannot beat WCI Luffy. He kicks less harder than pre exoskeleton Sanji. His puny kicks won't be enough to take down Luffy who tanked multiple CoC coating from Kaido. His regen also has limit. Luffy could outlast Marco for 10 hours. Marco can't outlast Luffy with his regen. He was fighting King and Queen for 30 minutes and he was already out of stamina. How would he fight Luffy for 10 hours.

Marco is the only YC1 that current Sanji can beat now judging by how Sanji with power up immediately disposed Queen while Queen ignored Marco and wasn't forced to use his hybrid form. Even the damage Queen took from Marco was gone 1 chapter later.

TF?
Marco held his own against admirals in marineford, matched an attack from Akainu intended to kill Luffy. Databook hypes him up as comparable to admirals, though it might be hyperbole it's still portrayal. Gorosei considered him a potential future Yonko.
In Wano, he fought against BM in a 1v1 (off screen) that lasted almost as long as Kaido vs scabbards, and came out of it without any injuries with BM basically praising him that she can't afford to spend energy/souls on him. He then spent energy healing up the entire flood, and then fought King + Queen for a considerable duration, with having combat speed enough to be on offensive in what little of the largely off-screen fight that we saw on screen.

Marco is the most impressive amongst the three YC1s we have seen so far.

WCI Luffy gets smoked by Marco.
Just because he had the tools to fight Katakuri (FS) doesn't mean he was overall in YC1 level (just close to it)

Gear 5 Luffy with CoC coating could 1 shot King/Marco and would still struggle to beat Katakuri since Gear 5 is much slower than Snakeman which scales to Katakuri in speed.

LOOOOOOL

Oh wait, I remember you now lol, you are the Katakuri wanker. My bad, didn't realize that soon enough

 

[BlackTiger]

TF?
Marco held his own against admirals in marineford, matched an attack from Akainu intended to kill Luffy. Databook hypes him up as comparable to admirals, though it might be hyperbole it's still portrayal. Gorosei considered him a potential future Yonko.
In Wano, he fought against BM in a 1v1 (off screen) that lasted almost as long as Kaido vs scabbards, and came out of it without any injuries with BM basically praising him that she can't afford to spend energy/souls on him. He then spent energy healing up the entire flood, and then fought King + Queen for a considerable duration, with having combat speed enough to be on offensive in what little of the largely off-screen fight that we saw on screen.

Marco is the most impressive amongst the three YC1s we have seen so far.

WCI Luffy gets smoked by Marco.
Just because he had the tools to fight Katakuri (FS) doesn't mean he was overall in YC1 level (just close to it)

Marco only had a clash against Kizaru in MF. He didn't have any extended fight against any admiral. Dressrosa Luffy already showed superior feat clashing with Fujitora. Marco blocking Akainu attack was not special since defense is Marco forte. I won't call it impressive if Gazelleman whose speed is his forte outrun base Luffy and Zoro. Previous barrier df also blocked Oden attack. That didn't mean previous barrier df was Oden's level.

The same databook which states Vista has better swordsmanship than Mihawk? That databook is not reliable. Marco lost to King which exposes how much of a fraud he is.

Gorosei never considered him potential yonko. You're misinterpreting what Gorosei said. Gorosei counted Marco because he was in yonko's crew as potential group which could stop BB. Had Marco weren't in yonko's crew, Gorosei won't ever mention his name.

Marco fought Big Mom because he has df advantage over her. Just like Luffy beat Enel because Luffy had df advantage over Enel and that didn't put Skypiea Luffy being much stronger than Skypiea Zoro. At beat Skypiea Luffy>Skypiea Zoro. Without df advantage over his opponent, Queen ignored him. Marco struggled to damage Queen.

Marco vs Big Mom was only 3 pages at best. Big Mom used her homies against Marco which wasn't successful due to Marco df advantage over her. Then Big Mom choked Marco and Marco was at Perospero's mercy.

Healing up the entire floor did not waste his stamina. The healing used his target stamina. Not Marco.

Marco blitzing King might be impressive but when you saw how Queen cannot react to Sanji's speed post exoskeleton while Queen reacted to Marco's speed, Marco's speed was not that impressive anymore. Not to mention that the damage Queen took from Marco all disappeared. It's like Marco never attacked Queen to begin with.

Marco is the most impressive amongst the three YC1s we have seen so far.

He lost to King. Just see Marco vs Queen and Marco vs Current Sanji. Who beat Queen harder.

WCI Luffy gets smoked by Marco.

How? Luffy tanked multiple CoC coating from Kaido. Marco kicked less harder than pre exoskeleton Sanji. Luffy could outlast Marco for 10 hours. Could Marco outlast base Luffy gor 10 hours when he was out of stamina when he was fighting King and Queen for 30 minutes?

Just because he had the tools to fight Katakuri (FS) doesn't mean he was overall in YC1 level (just close to it)

Doesn't need to use Katakuri to prove WCI Luffy can smoke Marco. Luffy without durability boost tanked CoC coating from Kaido. What could Marco do who did less damage to Queen compared to pre exoskeleton Sanji did to WCI Luffy? Luffy without FS could outlast Marco for 10 hours just tanking his attacks. Luffy with FS would be overkill. Marco would struggle to hit him.

LOOOOOOL

Oh wait, I remember you now lol, you are the Katakuri wanker. My bad, didn't realize that soon enough

I say this is a concession since you have no argument left. Anyone with CoC coating could 1 shot Marco/King but would still need FS and Snakeman speed boost to hit Katakuri since Katakuri is as fast as Snakeman that feat wise was faster than Gear 5.

 

[Pirate Queen]

TF?
Marco held his own against admirals in marineford, matched an attack from Akainu intended to kill Luffy. Databook hypes him up as comparable to admirals, though it might be hyperbole it's still portrayal. Gorosei considered him a potential future Yonko.
In Wano, he fought against BM in a 1v1 (off screen) that lasted almost as long as Kaido vs scabbards, and came out of it without any injuries with BM basically praising him that she can't afford to spend energy/souls on him. He then spent energy healing up the entire flood, and then fought King + Queen for a considerable duration, with having combat speed enough to be on offensive in what little of the largely off-screen fight that we saw on screen.

Marco is the most impressive amongst the three YC1s we have seen so far.

WCI Luffy gets smoked by Marco.
Just because he had the tools to fight Katakuri (FS) doesn't mean he was overall in YC1 level (just close to it)



LOOOOOOL

Oh wait, I remember you now lol, you are the Katakuri wanker. My bad, didn't realize that soon enough

Dude is KoL in disguise