One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[kkck]

Clearly not if I asked. Or rather, I don't remember.

Because Awakening shouldn't have drawbacks, as far as I remember?

Law and kidd made the point that their awakenings drained their stamina. Which seems roughly similar to what luffy goes through with his own awakening. On the other hand other awakenings we have seen do not appear to have such severe side effects. Like with katakuri and doflamingo. Presumably once mastered awakenings do not drain users nearly as much.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 27, 2023, Original Post Date: Jan 27, 2023 ---

Crackpot theory: We saw that luffy's gear 4 forms had the same cloud strip around him as his gear 5. And this is shared by other awakened zoans like lucci and kaku. The implication appears to be that awakened zoans get that cloud thingy but this doesn't explain gear 4. Perhaps powerful haki users can over spend haki to achieve partial awakenings with zoan fruits?

 

[LaGOAT]

I don't expect all 5 of them to be that strong.

But wouldn't be surprised if one or two of them were that strong, and the rest very strong too but more of a "low top tier".

Honestly I think Saturn maybe be on big mom lvl and is the weakest I expect the rest around yonko tier-PK lvl I expect Im to be above all of them in which luffy will surpass Rogers

 

[XXGenesis]

S/o’s @grey matter Tier list. I haven’t seen someone mention the Gorosei in quite some years. Bam next chapter comes out we have Saturn headed to EggHead with Kizaru.

 

[Aki1991]

Luffy was in Udon and was fighting a lot of people, including Ulti and Apo, before even reaching the roof top to fight Kaidou. He was also not really completely rested. Are you guys even reading the Manga. I agree that Kaidou could still win against G5 Luffy. However, both have been attacked by several strong people before their fight.

 

[XXGenesis]

My Current Top 30

Spoiler

Shanks
Kaido
Akainu
Kuzan
Mihawk
Big Mom
Blackbeard
Kizaru
Dragon(?)
Luffy



Garp
Fujitora
GreenBull
Ben Beckmann
Shiryu
Rayleigh (old)
Sabo
Sengoku (old)
Zoro
Laww



Kidd
Yamato
Yassop (??)
Magellan
Katakuri
Boa Hancock (??)
Marco
King
Lucci
Sanji

My Tier list for the most notable characters shown so far.

Top Tier (S)

Spoiler

Imu (?)
Rocks(?)
Roger(Prime)
Garp(Prime)
WhiteBeard(Prime)

High Tier (A+)

Spoiler

Shanks
Kaido
Akainu
Kong (?Prime?)
Sengoku (Prime)
WhiteBeard (Old WB)
Akoji
Dragon(?)
Mihawk
Shiki (Prime)
Big Mom

Mid Tier (A)

Spoiler

Rayleigh (Prime)
BlackBeard
Kizaru
WhiteBeard (Off Meds/MF)
Luffy
Garp (old)
Oden
Scooper (Prime)
Fujitora
GreenBull

Low Tier (-A)

Spoiler

Rayleigh (old)
Ben Beckman (??)
Shiryu(??)
Sabo
Zoro
Law
Kidd
Sengoku (Old)
Yamato

1st Mate (B+)

Spoiler

Magellan
Kuma
Yassop(??)
Katakuri
Marco
King
Moria (Prime)
Lucci
Crocodile (??)
Boa Hancock
Sanji
Vista

YC2 (B)

Spoiler

Lucky Roo (??)
Ace
Jimbei
Queen
Kaku
Jozu
Smoothie
Sulong (Cat/Dog)
Jack
Cracker
Doflamingo
Killer
Enel (??)
Kyoshiro

YC3 (-B)

Spoiler

Guernica CP0
Izo
Maha CP0
Stussy(??)
Shutenmaru
Dogstrom
CatViper
XDrake
Apoo
Kawamatsu
Who’s Who
Peros Pero
Urouge
Capone Bege

YC4/Tobi Roppo/Officer (C+)

Spoiler

Ulti
Franky
Kinemon
O-Kiku
Sasaki
Kanjuro
Snack
Oven
Ichiji
Niji
PageOne
Robin
Yonji
Daifuku
Judge
Ceasar
Black Moriah
Brooke

I still have the tiers ranked in order; HOWEVER everyone in the same tier are RELATIVE to each other. EXCEPT those on the top & bottom of the Tiers.

 

[albertwv]

On Gear 5 Luffy vs Kaido, with a fresh rematch 1v1, I would still have Kaido > G5 Luffy.
G5 Luffy only won due to Kaido's overconfidence (refusing to dodge a whole island punch coming down on him).
If you notice after Luffy's awakening you can count with one hand the amount of times, Luffy landed actual blows on Kaido, while Kaido was dodging most of them and hitting Luffy twice as much more. Kaido still had the upper hand in the fight, although Luffy refused to give up (MC plot armor) that is how he won plus the huge punch. Luffy was more exhausted than Kaido, who had gone through more fights than Luffy.

Finally, seeing a fresh G5 luffy vs awakened Lucci, confirms that a fresh Kaido would still massacre a fresh G5 Luffy.

Side note, I still dont believe the Gorosei or Imu are Yonko level fighters, I really think they are just political figures. Not until we see actual feats from them, well I rank them.

 

[john ellis]

The point was that all of the battle damage Luffy sustained was from Kaido. Nobody else can take credit for Luffy's L, while on the other hand, Kaido was worn down by multiple people. Not to mention, Luffy literally ate meat after some Ls too. Kaido laying damage on Luffy isn't an advantage, while Luffy having other people do it is.

And that aside, Oda's intent with that Yamato statement was blatant.

The thing is kaido clearly beats g4 luffy. Like we saw it multiple times kaido winning against g4 luffy. But g5 luffy I do think kaido can best. Also your part about luffy dying and getting up if g5 has those regeneration powers how is kaido handling a full health luffy?

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 29, 2023, Original Post Date: Jan 29, 2023 ---

The thing is kaido clearly beats g4 luffy. Like we saw it multiple times kaido winning against g4 luffy. But g5 luffy I do think kaido can best. Also your part about luffy dying and getting up if g5 has those regeneration powers how is kaido handling a full health luffy?

Also I think kaido struggled to damage g5, as it was I think the reason why oda showed kaido connection multiple blows against g5 was to show even Kaidou attacks are ineffective vs g5 kaido landed multiple strong attacks against a g5 luffy for limited effect. While lufffy landed a few blows to defeat kaido.

 

[Core D. Roy]

It's interesting that the one difference I've noted that I have with most power-scalers is that I put current Blackbeard at the pinnacle. I wonder why most people undersell Blackbeard at this point.

 

[DeadlyBeast]

It's interesting that the one difference I've noted that I have with most power-scalers is that I put current Blackbeard at the pinnacle. I wonder why most people undersell Blackbeard at this point.

It's the lack of portrayed feats that would be needed to put him up at that level. Most power scales I've seen don't use the narrative story to decide on power levels. So far BB has been portrayed to definitely be an Emperor level fighter but he hasn't shown any actual feats that put him up there with WB/Roger. Narratively he is definitely at the top since there is no question that he is Luffy's final pirate rival to become PK. However, that doesn't preclude that events will happen that will boost BB powers beyond current to get him to top top tier.

 

[XXGenesis]

It's interesting that the one difference I've noted that I have with most power-scalers is that I put current Blackbeard at the pinnacle. I wonder why most people undersell Blackbeard at this point.

It’s so hard to read your list. Can’t even zoom In properly…=\

I don’t think Prime Rayleigh was ever stronger than Big Mom. Big Mom is High tier.

Prime Rayleigh could take BlackBeard.
Old Rayleigh can give BlackBeard a decent fight but can’t win.

So for me Blackbeard should be top of the Mid tier above most admirals & Old legends & Luffy.

 

[Crimson Ice]

It's interesting that the one difference I've noted that I have with most power-scalers is that I put current Blackbeard at the pinnacle. I wonder why most people undersell Blackbeard at this point.

BB has shown nothing to put him above any of the original post TS Yonko, let alone being on par with Primebeard.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

It's interesting that the one difference I've noted that I have with most power-scalers is that I put current Blackbeard at the pinnacle. I wonder why most people undersell Blackbeard at this point.

Wasn’t super impressive as a fighter pre TS

 

[Fox666]

BB has shown nothing to put him above any of the original post TS Yonko, let alone being on par with Primebeard.

The Blackbeard Pirates fought against Sengoku and Garp for a while

This is like no. 1 combat feat in the entire manga, which may have gone unnoticed by most fans

 

[DeadlyBeast]

This is like no. 1 combat feat in the entire manga, which may have gone unnoticed by most fans

I don't think it went unnoticed, I just don't think its anywhere near the no. 1 combat feat in the entire manga. It's not that impressive to trade blows with no resolution/winner against some old timers that aren't in their peak.

Garp and Sengoku are more a narrative argument for BB's power level due to who they used to be in the past but frankly nothing we saw from them is that impressive in the present.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Garp certainly thinks he can take on a much stronger version of BB without much backup

 

[DeadlyBeast]

Garp certainly thinks he can take on a much stronger version of BB without much backup

Garp definitely believes he can do a lot of things. He also thought he could kill Akainu during Marineford war. Narratively, I think they are power houses but Oda needs to either put up or shut up at this point about their power levels in the present.

My overall problem with the old generation in general is they are riding on the coattails of what they used to be and not based on what they are now. We haven't really seen enough present day portrayals from them to see if they still live up to the hype.

 

[Crimson Ice]

The Blackbeard Pirates fought against Sengoku and Garp for a while

This is like no. 1 combat feat in the entire manga, which may have gone unnoticed by most fans

Yes, his entire crew, not him alone. BB has nothing putting on him Primebeard's level. The very same BB tucked his tail between his legs and ran from Shanks.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Garp definitely believes he can do a lot of things. He also thought he could kill Akainu during Marineford war. Narratively, I think they are power houses but Oda needs to either put up or shut up at this point about their power levels in the present.

My overall problem with the old generation in general is they are riding on the coattails of what they used to be and not based on what they are now. We haven't really seen enough present day portrayals from them to see if they still live up to the hype.

With his current portrayal, you doubt Garp wouldn't have been able to kill Akainu?

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 30, 2023, Original Post Date: Jan 30, 2023 ---

Shiki was able to solo prime Garp and Sengoku for a few days right? That feat shits on whatever BB was doing in Marineford

 

[kkck]

We don't ultimately know how strong sengoku was during marineford or how strong garp is now. If sengoku could fight at the yonko tier during marineford then that's still a reasonable feat for BB and his crew at that point. During wano we saw kaido take on 9 scabbards, then multiple supernova, and then luffy a couple times until kaido was finally defeated. BB is clearly more powerful now than he was 2 years back at least.

 

[XXGenesis]

Lol let’s play a game…I call it No.1 Feat !!! I’m making fun but I’m serious I’ll go first.

No.1 Feat so far in the manga has to be…Akainu Vs Kuzan Fight for Days & changed the environment & climate of an island to half hot/half cold.