One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[Fox666]

Yes but he got back up without seeming damaged so it's not clear if it had any actual effect.

It's not like Nami was going to one-shot a Seraphim

But S-Shark did took damage

I'm also not sure if Sanji didn't damaged him shortly after, with his blue flames or whatnot

 

[HereNThere]

Yes but he got back up without seeming damaged so it's not clear if it had any actual effect. The reason I'm interested in whether DFs effect them is specifically about bypassing the Lunarian durability.

For example so far we have not seen Seraphim use any haki. Does that mean Law's basic Ope Ope power Amputation can just start cutting them into bits? Or would this all powerful Lunarian defense block that?

We know for sure that brute force, cutting attacks, fire/heat, and electricity so far don't actually damage the Seraphims. They just get back up. However, OP world has lots of DF powers that act in very specific ways that should ignore durability. If Seraphim are not able to use haki and their Lunarian defense can't block these then they actually diminish in threat by a whole lot.

Lunarian physiology is strong, but it's highly unlikely their defenses are innately resistant to DF abilities. So if Law were to Ope Ope them, then they would probably be affected. However, we know that if you are quick and agile enough, you can dodge his attacks as we saw with Smoker and Doffy earlier in the time skip. I imagine that's how Oda would have them deal with him.

We should also keep in mind that, even if you have a technique that can bypass durability, it does not mean that the character's endurance/pain tolerance goes away. The Seraphim are Pacifista, so they probably can take a ton of damage up to a certain point before it starts it visibly shows it's being affected by the damage. Big Mom and Queen are good examples of that.

 

[DeadlyBeast]

It's not like Nami was going to one-shot a Seraphim

But S-Shark did took damage

I'm also not sure if Sanji didn't damaged him shortly after, with his blue flames or whatnot

I don't believe any of the Seraphim have taken any damage at all up to this point. But that maybe something we just disagree on.

All I've seen is the Seraphim get hit by attack, looks like they feel pain/get hurt, but then moments later they get up without a scratch. One can interpret this as they are a Kaido and each attack is doing tiny bit of damage but my understanding with Lunarians is that they literally are taking 0 damage.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 28, 2023, Original Post Date: Mar 28, 2023 ---

Lunarian physiology is strong, but it's highly unlikely their defenses are innately resistant to DF abilities. So if Law were to Ope Ope them, then they would probably be affected. However, we know that if you are quick and agile enough, you can dodge his attacks as we saw with Smoker and Doffy earlier in the time skip. I imagine that's how Oda would have them deal with him.

We should also keep in mind that, even if you have a technique that can bypass durability, it does not mean that the character's endurance/pain tolerance goes away. The Seraphim are Pacifista, so they probably can take a ton of damage up to a certain point before it starts it visibly shows it's being affected by the damage. Big Mom and Queen are good examples of that.

Yeah but the lack of haki is huge. Without that Law could just shambles them into water too and at his skill I don't think they can avoid him using just speed. But I get your point that it would take a combo of DF+fairly decent fighter to actually work. Law obviously is a strong fighter with an OP DF. I do think other crews like BB will have more options available against Seraphim like using the Sick Sick fruit etc to bypass the Lunarian defense and take advantage of their lack of haki which I think is great. Otherwise the Seraphim would be very unbalanced.

Good call on their lack of pain. That definitely will be big asset even if you bypass their Lunarian defense. I'm guessing they are also hella durable like Pacifista even without the Lunarian abilities.

 

[kkck]

I can buy nami maybe doing some damage to S-bear. Seraphines are presumably like the old pacifista, they are humans enhanced with mechanical parts. They live and breath and clank. I could buy within the context of OP that having a shock of electricity going throw your body scrambles your nerves regardless of your powerful level, even if stronger people can handle it better. That said, it's clear that even if S-bear took some damage from nami's attack it wasn't that much. We do know there are attacks in the story that to varying capacity are capable of breaking power levels. No one in the story so far has taken zero damage from a laser for instance. I wouldn't be surprised if a laser from the original pacifista could put a dent on kaido or big mom...

 

[Fox666]

I don't believe any of the Seraphim have taken any damage at all up to this point. But that maybe something we just disagree on.

All I've seen is the Seraphim get hit by attack, looks like they feel pain/get hurt, but then moments later they get up without a scratch. One can interpret this as they are a Kaido and each attack is doing tiny bit of damage but my understanding with Lunarians is that they literally are taking 0 damage.

But S-Shark had smoke coming out from his mouth

King bleed a few times while fighting Zoro, he was still standing like nothing happened but he did took damage

 

[kkck]

Hmmm, several times during the wano arc characters made point that various enemies were in reality taking damage through their long fights. This was said iirc when the supernova engaged with the yonko and when sanji was confronting queen. When zoro started using his maximum output against king we also saw king dodging attacks. I suppose the scenario here is probably the same as before. No one is actually invulnerable and even if marginal you still accumulate damage over time in spite of absurd durability. The pacifista are likely like this as well, even with lunarian physiology if they keep battling and taking hits they will eventually fall. I don't know if luffy is using his advanced forms of haki against them or if zoro has hit them with his maximum output but if seraphines are human they will eventually feel the accumulated damage. At least if the seraphines stick to themes we've seen before...

 

[Fox666]

The Seraphim are still Pacifistas, and have harder-than-steel skin, and probably don't show signs of pain like a normal person

So just because they look fine after an attack, doesn't mean they were not damaged

It would also explain how Nami's attack caused so much damage, since the Pacifista are still vulnerable to electricity

 

[Pirate Queen]

I keep thinking the Seraphim are cyborgs like the Mark 1 and 3 pacifistas

 

[Fox666]

I keep thinking the Seraphim are cyborgs like the Mark 1 and 3 pacifistas

They have lasers on their hands, and are controlled by whoever possess a computer chip

 

[DeadlyBeast]

But S-Shark had smoke coming out from his mouth

King bleed a few times while fighting Zoro, he was still standing like nothing happened but he did took damage

Yeah its entirely possible that the Lunarian defense is not absolute and just gives Seraphim a default Kaido like body. That would mean anyone strong can chip away at them even if they don't use special abilities like aCoC or aCoA level 2, which I think would be great. This combined to their obvious DF weaknesses and seeming vulnerability to others DF powers makes them a lot less broken.

 

[albertwv]

So do we place Kid at YC1 below or YC1+?
Me, personally I think he is YC1, with Law being YC1+.
Mihawk has no feats greater than Shanks at the moment, besides the title.
Fans are expecting him to be Zolo's EoS opponent, but what if somebody else takes Mihawk's title, either Shiryu or some other unknown? Zolo's goal is to be the WSS NOT to beat Mihawk. If Mihawk wasn't the WSS, then Zolo wouldnt care about Mihawk.

 

[grey matter]

So do we place Kid at YC1 below or YC1+?
Me, personally I think he is YC1, with Law being YC1+.

I for one have stopped using "YC1" as a level.
But anyway, IMO the ranking for Kid hasn't changed much. Replace Kid by Law, and the outcome would be same.
I would generally put Law above Kid, simply because Law has top tier attack power, while Kid isn't really top tier in anything. But they still belong to the same tier - just on opposite ends of the spectrum.
Where do I see Kid? Generally speaking - comparable to Marco/King, above Katakuri, below Zoro/Law/Yamato.

Mihawk has no feats greater than Shanks at the moment, besides the title.
Fans are expecting him to be Zolo's EoS opponent, but what if somebody else takes Mihawk's title, either Shiryu or some other unknown? Zolo's goal is to be the WSS NOT to beat Mihawk. If Mihawk wasn't the WSS, then Zolo wouldnt care about Mihawk.

I get that you are waiting for feats, but remember that Shanks was also completely featless until the last chapter (unless you want to consider the sky split with WB). Shanks was also purely riding on hype until then. So I would just say wait.

Mihawk doesn't have anti feats.........he simply lacks feats, that's all. Still hasn't used a named attack or even remotely tried in the series yet, didn't get any blow landed on him in Marineford, etc.
Mihawk is basically the actual Yonko of the CG, I don't think Oda would create this crew and make it a Yonko crew, while not do anything substantial with it or have it just take an L right off the bat. Anything combat related CG does, Mihawk will have to be at the forefront of it. So I say wait, Mihawk's feats are coming soon.

Mihawk was stated in official materials to be WSS in both title and actuality, meaning he really is the WSS. If Oda has someone else really be the WSS in secret, that would be completely shitting on Mihawk as a character. Mihawk would become amongst the worst character in the series if Oda writes that way, but considering the dogshit writing we saw in Wano, I wouldn't put it past Oda.

 

[Rein Avara]

If Law had Luffy's level of haki on top of his DF he'd be a bloody monster

 

[grey matter]

If Law had Luffy's level of haki on top of his DF he'd be a bloody monster

Would be strongest character currently alive for sure

 

[Rein Avara]

Would be strongest character currently alive for sure

Yeah I think so

 

[Fox666]

If Law had Luffy's level of haki on top of his DF he'd be a bloody monster

You sure?

Gear 5 is also a hax ability, being able to grab a lightning and everything

And Law could already hurt Kaido, the problem is that his style of teleporting to make a sneak attacks isn't enough to take down Kaido, Luffy had to hit him directly a trillion of times

 

[Rein Avara]

You sure?

Gear 5 is also a hax ability, being able to grab a lightning and everything

And Law could already hurt Kaido, the problem is that his style of teleporting to make a sneak attacks isn't enough to take down take, Luffy had to directly a trillion of times

What do you mean Am I sure?

1. ACoA
2. ACoO
3. ACoC

Add all that to law's arsenal he's dealing obscene damage, imagine shock wile with ACoC?
Or his room slash with ACoA?

Or even his Room coupled with ACoO?

What's there not to be sure about? He'd be top 5 easily.

 

[Pirate Queen]

What do you mean Am I sure?

1. ACoA
2. ACoO
3. ACoC

Add all that to law's arsenal he's dealing obscene damage, imagine shock wile with ACoC?
Or his room slash with ACoA?

Or even his Room coupled with ACoO?

What's there not to be sure about? He'd be top 5 easily.

Law is serious a bum and I have argued countless times that he doesn't hold a candle to even the most slightly competent New World level fighters even with advanced haki and I'm tired of his hax df being used to justify poor battle iq

Without filling this page with an essay...

Spoiler: Why Law is overated

April fools

 

[albertwv]

I for one have stopped using "YC1" as a level.
But anyway, IMO the ranking for Kid hasn't changed much. Replace Kid by Law, and the outcome would be same.
I would generally put Law above Kid, simply because Law has top tier attack power, while Kid isn't really top tier in anything. But they still belong to the same tier - just on opposite ends of the spectrum.
Where do I see Kid? Generally speaking - comparable to Marco/King, above Katakuri, below Zoro/Law/Yamato.




I get that you are waiting for feats, but remember that Shanks was also completely featless until the last chapter (unless you want to consider the sky split with WB). Shanks was also purely riding on hype until then. So I would just say wait.

Mihawk doesn't have anti feats.........he simply lacks feats, that's all. Still hasn't used a named attack or even remotely tried in the series yet, didn't get any blow landed on him in Marineford, etc.
Mihawk is basically the actual Yonko of the CG, I don't think Oda would create this crew and make it a Yonko crew, while not do anything substantial with it or have it just take an L right off the bat. Anything combat related CG does, Mihawk will have to be at the forefront of it. So I say wait, Mihawk's feats are coming soon.

Mihawk was stated in official materials to be WSS in both title and actuality, meaning he really is the WSS. If Oda has someone else really be the WSS in secret, that would be completely shitting on Mihawk as a character. Mihawk would become amongst the worst character in the series if Oda writes that way, but considering the dogshit writing we saw in Wano, I wouldn't put it past Oda.

Shanks has been riding on hype but he has the feats to back him up to his level unlike Mihawk.
Shanks vs WB clash puts him above 99% of the current character alive at that time.
Shanks stopping Akainu's magma fist and Akainu submitting to him by not even attempting to fight him again, puts him above Akainu and backs up his hype. No one else has been seen stopping Akainu's attack and coming unscathed besides WB, a fellow Yonko.
Shanks was able to make BB who had gotten a power up who was confident enough to defeat Sengoku AND Garp, stand down.

Mihawk's best feat so far has been able to clash with Vista, which no way does it compare to Shanks vs WB clash.
All im saying is, take away titles "WSS" and "Yonko", and lets see who has better feats on manga. Im sure fans would place Shanks above Mihawk.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Mihawk was stated in official materials to be WSS in both title and actuality, meaning he really is the WSS. If Oda has someone else really be the WSS in secret, that would be completely shitting on Mihawk as a character. Mihawk would become amongst the worst character in the series if Oda writes that way, but considering the dogshit writing we saw in Wano, I wouldn't put it past Oda.

I think there is room, and always have insisted, that there are valid ways to maintain Mihawk maintaing his title while Shanks is the overall better combatant. Oda has shown clear distinctions between those that dedicate their lifestyles around swordsmanship and those that merely use their swords as a tool.

Black blades and those that strive to obtain them(only Zoro at this point but you get what I mean) are the distinction here, which is why you have characters like Rocks, Roger, WB, Shanks who are the top of the world blade wielders but do not have black blades nor do they seem to strive to get one.

I think once Black Blades are fully explained, the distinction would further be made.