One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[albertwv]

I used to rank the Yonkos:
WB > Kaido > BM > Shanks > BB
then,
Kaido > Shanks > BM > BB
now,
Shanks > BB > Luffy >>> Law > Kid

I still don't see Luffy beating BB or Shanks, but no way is he getting one-shotted or losing to BB without a high difficulty.

Now the OG Admirals are between Shanks and BB. The new Admirals are between BB and Luffy so like:
Shanks > Akainu/Kizaru/Aokiji > BB > Fuji/Green Bull > Luffy.
Luffy would give Fuji and GB a high diff or its a 50/50.

Finally, Old Garp >/= Aokiji. I always believed that Old Garp and Sengoku were/are stronger than the OG admirals or at minimum their level. We will finally see. I know Akainu fans will protest and believe that Akainu >>> Garp but we will see.

One last thing, this is for all Roger/Pirate King haters. Yes we know Roger doesn't have many actual feats and we rank him base off on hype and narrative (like Mihawk). But I always believed in their Prime, Roger = WB >/= Garp (& maybe Sengoku) >>> OG Admirals.
Garp has stated that he isn't as strong as he used to be, and we just saw Galaxy Punch, probably one of the strongest ACoA (or ACoC) attack we've seen so far. So imagine him in his prime, woosh. And this was the guy who "cornered" and "almost killed" Roger many times before.
Roger and Garp's fight must have been legendary as well, which automatically gives credit to Roger's power level IMO. So while Roger may not have many actual feats, this speaks volume of Roger's strength, in case we didn't have enough proof itself.
Unlike Mihawk who only goes off by his title, Roger goes off by his rival's strength when they were in their prime.
And before you say that Mihawk rivals Shank's strength, they haven't fought/dueled in over 12 years, meanwhile Shanks has gotten stronger, Mihawk probably has too but we have no way of knowing who is indeed stronger overall.

 

[Pirate Queen]

I'd argue Prime Garp is > Shanks

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 22, 2023, Original Post Date: Apr 21, 2023 ---

Shanks is the closest to Roger=Garp=Whitebeard in this era

 

[Bandit99]

What does PIS/CIS mean?

 

[john ellis]

The more I think about it, the more I think inverse kaido would lose to Mihawk. While kaido might have better stats then Mihawk I’m not sure his mental state would let him win the match up. He seemed confident no swordsmen could surpass oden including Mihawk. And he was willing to let swordsmen try to cut him to prove. Mihawk is not a fool he’s aware of kaido’s strength and wouldn’t hold up and he seems the type to end fights quickly. Given the fact Zoro cut kaido deeply, I think Mihawks free attack would crriple kaido enough for him to lose.

I also see Mihawk being a glass cannon of the yonko tier, while he probably has the worst endurance, he makes it up with his high attack stat, and using offense as his main defense.

 

[Pirate Queen]

The more I think about it, the more I think inverse kaido would lose to Mihawk. While kaido might have better stats then Mihawk I’m not sure his mental state would let him win the match up. He seemed confident no swordsmen could surpass oden including Mihawk. And he was willing to let swordsmen try to cut him to prove. Mihawk is not a fool he’s aware of kaido’s strength and wouldn’t hold up and he seems the type to end fights quickly. Given the fact Zoro cut kaido deeply, I think Mihawks free attack would crriple kaido enough for him to lose.

I also see Mihawk being a glass cannon of the yonko tier, while he probably has the worst endurance, he makes it up with his high attack stat, and using offense as his main defense.

I think Kaido would more than likely use his FS to avoid those high level attack slashes. Whereas with Luffy he had no need to use FS continuously.

 

[M3J]

So, Aokiji >> Mihawk, Shanks, Garp, and Sengoku since Blackbeard didn't want to fight Aokiji despite outnumbering him.

 

[HereNThere]

What does PIS/CIS mean?

Plot induced stupidity/character induced stupidity.

So, Aokiji >> Mihawk, Shanks, Garp, and Sengoku since Blackbeard didn't want to fight Aokiji despite outnumbering him.

More likely that they are all around the same general level of strength and Blackbeard doesn't want unnecessary smoke from any of them.

 

[M3J]

Blackbeard had no problem fighting Garp, Mihawk, and Sengoku and only backed off because Shanks would have outnumbered him. But he fought Shanks before, whereas he didn't want to mess with Aokiji.

 

[grey matter]

I used to rank the Yonkos:
WB > Kaido > BM > Shanks > BB
then,
Kaido > Shanks > BM > BB
now,
Shanks > BB > Luffy >>> Law > Kid

I still don't see Luffy beating BB or Shanks, but no way is he getting one-shotted or losing to BB without a high difficulty.

Now the OG Admirals are between Shanks and BB. The new Admirals are between BB and Luffy so like:
Shanks > Akainu/Kizaru/Aokiji > BB > Fuji/Green Bull > Luffy.
Luffy would give Fuji and GB a high diff or its a 50/50.

Finally, Old Garp >/= Aokiji. I always believed that Old Garp and Sengoku were/are stronger than the OG admirals or at minimum their level. We will finally see. I know Akainu fans will protest and believe that Akainu >>> Garp but we will see.

I don't think the new admirals can defeat Luffy. At the very least, it would be an extreme diff. I have it extreme diff, leaning Luffy.
I have the OG admirals above Luffy though.

I agree on OG admirals between Blackbeard and Shanks. I too have all of them above Blackbeard, I have them all above Big Mom too.

Law and Kid are still underrated by you.
You simply can't just chalk up everything they did to "plot". What kind of standards is that? We all can do that then and discard feats we don't like. Fact is, if we have the same 2v1 between Law/Kid and BM, Law/Kid will win and will do so without the bombs.
I don't understand the logic of giving Shanks' feats to BM. His thing is going to be CQC, haki and attack power. Not much of durability or versatility going on there, compared to Kaido or BM.
Law/Kid can 2v1 Luffy too, and can individually give him a mid diff. Law already gave Yonko Blackbeard a mid diff.


Nah, Aoikiji is going to be stronger than old Garp. Garp will start running out of gas soon, due to old age. If this fight isn't a ruse (i.e Aokiji is shadow sword leader) or if it doesn't get interrupted, Aokiji will come out on top.
Wanna bet? Winner chooses loser's profile pic for a month

One last thing, this is for all Roger/Pirate King haters. Yes we know Roger doesn't have many actual feats and we rank him base off on hype and narrative (like Mihawk). But I always believed in their Prime, Roger = WB >/= Garp (& maybe Sengoku) >>> OG Admirals.
Garp has stated that he isn't as strong as he used to be, and we just saw Galaxy Punch, probably one of the strongest ACoA (or ACoC) attack we've seen so far. So imagine him in his prime, woosh. And this was the guy who "cornered" and "almost killed" Roger many times before.
Roger and Garp's fight must have been legendary as well, which automatically gives credit to Roger's power level IMO. So while Roger may not have many actual feats, this speaks volume of Roger's strength, in case we didn't have enough proof itself.
Unlike Mihawk who only goes off by his title, Roger goes off by his rival's strength when they were in their prime.
And before you say that Mihawk rivals Shank's strength, they haven't fought/dueled in over 12 years, meanwhile Shanks has gotten stronger, Mihawk probably has too but we have no way of knowing who is indeed stronger overall.

Nobody is downplaying Roger lol, most of us put him in a pedestal within top 3.
However, there is nothing proving or indicating that the gap is so high that it is ">>>" though. Roger/prime-WB would need at least a high diff to defeat an OG admiral.

Man, I'm gonna clown you so hard when Mihawk starts flexing lmao
No hard feelings tho

So, Aokiji >> Mihawk, Shanks, Garp, and Sengoku since Blackbeard didn't want to fight Aokiji despite outnumbering him.

Nah, you have to understand the mindset of Blackbeard. He avoids fights that are risky, where he stands to lose more from that than gain.
Blackbeard's very first interaction with Luffy SAYS IT ALL.
"You guys won by not fighting them" - referring to Bellamy and co throwing drinks on them and stomping them, yet Luffy/Zoro not lifting a finger

In Marineford specifically, he was drunk on power after getting WB's powers, and his reasoning went out of the window.
Dude would've been destroyed if Shanks didn't pull up. Imagine fighting against 5 top tiers (3 admirals, Sengoku, Garp). He's also like Luffy, plot and fate carries this dude and saves his ass from fatal scenarios.


Taking Marineford out as the outlier, what Blackbeard does has always been consistent.
He avoids fights with top tiers. Even the ones he can win.
- avoided Akainu
- avoided Rayleigh
- avoided Aokiji

This isn't because Blackbeard would necessarily lose. On the contrary, he probably would've won all these fights, since he is also assisted by his crew in all of these cases.
But Blackbeard thinks differently. He weighs in the benefit of fighting, versus the risk/loss.

Let's examine benefit/loss potential for these 3 scenarios where Blackbeard "backed off"
- Akainu: he stands to gain a battle ship if he wins. But at what cost? Akainu may lose, but he probably will kill some of BB's commanders plus give BB a heavy injury
- Rayleigh: he stands to gain Boa Hancock's DF if he wins. But at what cost? Yeah it's implied he would win, but he will be heavily injured and probably lose a limb or two.
- Aokiji: he stands to gain NOTHING out of fighting Aokiji. He likely wins, it would be at the cost of losing few commanders and injure himself. If he backs out, he loses nothing and possibly gains Aoikiji as an ally

 

[albertwv]

Woah woah now we have ppl thinking Mihawk could beat Kaido. OMG.
Bet, next they're gonna claim Mihawk > Prime Roger because he has a sword.
Some of y'all Mihawk fans are too much.
I don't even have Shanks higher than Prime Ray at this point. Not until we seem more from both, but sadly we won't see more of Prime Ray.

We saw how easily Aokiji froze BB's commanders and put BB in an awkward spot to not be able to use his Quake DF in fear of destroying the frozen comrades.
Im leaning on Aokiji >/= BB.

@grey matter Law/Kid only won due to plot and BM' PIS. There were so many external factors that allowed them to win AND I argue that they only managed to knock her out of the "ring" but not truly defeat her themselves.
Yes Law and Kid are strong but only as strong as YC1+. They would still lose 1v1 against Fuji or GB. Even together I can see Fuji/GB giving them a tough battle.
BM lost because she couldn't use ACoC for plot reasons, she was too overconfident like Kaido, was taken out of the playing field, the bombs barely had anything to do with her defeat, it was the Volcano eruption that was her demise.
That was a man-made nature attack but I wouldnt say Law > BM. It's like saying if WB's tsunamis managed to drown all of the Marines in MF if Aokiji wasn't there, then would you claim WB > All 3 Admirals, All Vice Admirals, etc? Technically WB would have won that war single-handedly.

Face that fact, BM only lost due to plot reasons. Kid was one-shotted and yes Law put up a struggle, enough to give BB a mid-diff I guess.

Old WB vs Akainu was already a high diff for WB, imagine if WB was in his prime, It would be a low-mid diff. The OG admirals do not compare to the prime legends. Further proof, Old Ray would've give Kizaru a high diff, with Kizaru winning. Prime Ray would most likely mid-diff Kizaru.
Another proof, Old Garp couldn't be frozen and managed to punch Aokiji, we will see how much it affected Aokiji, but nonetheless, one doesn't not easily manage to punch Aokiji especially head on. I think they are equals at the moment, with Aokiji being a little stronger but due to stamina.

Technically we have now seen the 3 OG Admirals clash with Old Legends, (WB, Rayleigh, and Garp).
I even place the Prime Legends above Kaido and BM and Shanks.

 

[john ellis]

@albertwv its not that I think Mihawk would win in a fair fight, although I think he had a chance. I just don’t see kaido winning in character. He will simply let mihawk slash him. And I don’t think kaido beats mihawk after he gets a free attack. Mihawk is a monster has a higher bounty than Luffy despite him defeating kaido. He’s easily in the yonko tier soup. Now actually defeating kaido, well kaido was so hung up on swordsmen being Oden tier, which I think mihawk surpasses, I think he would easily make that mistake and let mihawk win.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

Woah woah now we have ppl thinking Mihawk could beat Kaido. OMG.
Bet, next they're gonna claim Mihawk > Prime Roger because he has a sword.
Some of y'all Mihawk fans are too much.
I don't even have Shanks higher than Prime Ray at this point. Not until we seem more from both, but sadly we won't see more of Prime Ray.

We saw how easily Aokiji froze BB's commanders and put BB in an awkward spot to not be able to use his Quake DF in fear of destroying the frozen comrades.
Im leaning on Aokiji >/= BB.

@grey matter Law/Kid only won due to plot and BM' PIS. There were so many external factors that allowed them to win AND I argue that they only managed to knock her out of the "ring" but not truly defeat her themselves.
Yes Law and Kid are strong but only as strong as YC1+. They would still lose 1v1 against Fuji or GB. Even together I can see Fuji/GB giving them a tough battle.
BM lost because she couldn't use ACoC for plot reasons, she was too overconfident like Kaido, was taken out of the playing field, the bombs barely had anything to do with her defeat, it was the Volcano eruption that was her demise.
That was a man-made nature attack but I wouldnt say Law > BM. It's like saying if WB's tsunamis managed to drown all of the Marines in MF if Aokiji wasn't there, then would you claim WB > All 3 Admirals, All Vice Admirals, etc? Technically WB would have won that war single-handedly.

Face that fact, BM only lost due to plot reasons. Kid was one-shotted and yes Law put up a struggle, enough to give BB a mid-diff I guess.

Old WB vs Akainu was already a high diff for WB, imagine if WB was in his prime, It would be a low-mid diff. The OG admirals do not compare to the prime legends. Further proof, Old Ray would've give Kizaru a high diff, with Kizaru winning. Prime Ray would most likely mid-diff Kizaru.
Another proof, Old Garp couldn't be frozen and managed to punch Aokiji, we will see how much it affected Aokiji, but nonetheless, one doesn't not easily manage to punch Aokiji especially head on. I think they are equals at the moment, with Aokiji being a little stronger but due to stamina.

Technically we have now seen the 3 OG Admirals clash with Old Legends, (WB, Rayleigh, and Garp).
I even place the Prime Legends above Kaido and BM and Shanks.

I genuinely blame the anime to why folks believe WB is so much stronger than akainu
The anime and manga are so so different

 

[HereNThere]

@albertwv its not that I think Mihawk would win in a fair fight, although I think he had a chance. I just don’t see kaido winning in character. He will simply let mihawk slash him. And I don’t think kaido beats mihawk after he gets a free attack. Mihawk is a monster has a higher bounty than Luffy despite him defeating kaido. He’s easily in the yonko tier soup. Now actually defeating kaido, well kaido was so hung up on swordsmen being Oden tier, which I think mihawk surpasses, I think he would easily make that mistake and let mihawk win.

Kaido isn't going to let Mihawk get a free hit. Kaido is arrogant, but he's not stupid. Mihawk is a world renown figure and has clashed with Shanks, someone who Kaido holds in high regard. He should be well aware of what Mihawk is capable of and will take him seriously from the get go, just like he did to Big Mom when she arrived to Wano. Kaido let the Scabbards and the Supernova get free hits because he was constantly looking down on them and barely considered them a serious threat to him. When the situation calls for it, he will be proactive and block/dodge as we saw with Luffy when his haki became effective enough.

Also, Kaido doesn't have a swordsmen complex, he has an Oden complex. Anything that reminded Kaido of him is the reason Kaido would lose him composure (The Scabbards' haki and Enma), not just any swordsman. Unless Mihawk has some Oden fan merch, Kaido will likely have his head in the game.

 

[DeadlyBeast]

As we saw with Law, he was able to give a mid diff at least to Blackbeard in a 1v1. Obviously everyone knew Kid or Law can't 1v1 a top tier, but what happened against BB is basically what most of us expected - put up a decent fight but lose convincingly. I don't think anyone expected Shanks to outright one shot Kid lmao.
So this isn't quite a Law/Kid dehype. It is moreso Shanks hype, rather than anything else.

I can agree that it was more of a Shanks hype moment than a Kid downplay moment since the attack even took out Killer. The Red Hair pirates are definitely looking very threatening in combat after that showing.

As for Law's performance against BB, it's hard to say for me. Just due to BBs characterization so far involving him getting hurt/hit it makes it more difficult to gauge how tough BB found the opponent. Personally I still think Law was low diff for BB and the injuries we see are superficial.

Let's look at things from a broader perspective.
- Shanks doesn't have the durability of Kaido or BM
- Shanks is a swordsman, and they are known for hitting above their tier generally speaking


Put these two together, and we can start seeing why Shanks one shotted Kid.
What Shanks lacks in durability and versatility of a DF, he makes up for with his haki, CQC and attack power.

I'm good with this take. In fact the attack Shanks used is probably on the stronger side of his move set like Thunder Bagua (& variants) for Kaido. Any strong person without good defense (thinking Lunarian level) or aCoC taking that head on would meet same fate as Kid.

Also, let's not use this to somehow take BM above where she was shown to be in the manga.
She used all her ultimate moves, and Law/Kid tanked them. We outright saw Kid tank an Ikoku attack, as well as Misery (which seems to be her trump card).

She has physical strength and haki on par with Kaido (at least pre drunken modes), she's around same level in overall durability too. But her CQC, speed and attack power is the lowest we have seen for a top tier fighter.
Let's simply rank BM based on what the manga showed us, instead of attributing all her anti-feats to plot or CIS/PIS or whatever. Yes, some instances are that, but not all.


I have: Kaido > Shanks > Big Mom.

That's fair. In that case to me Big Mom had very good base due to her monster body but after that I think when it comes to her combat skills she is lack luster compared to most top tiers. By that I mean she relies heavily on large AoE type attacks that look flashy but lack in their ability to finish particularly strong foes. Kid and Law are strong but we can clearly see they don't have that type of durability which is why they both lost more easily when taking more powerful attacks from Shanks & BB.

However my ranking is different then yours. I'd put Shanks >= Kaido > Big Mom.

I think Dragon's power will be "atmosphere" rather than just "wind". A conqueror's haki clad tornado + lightning storm would be hype AF. It would be like dragon twister, but bigger and with lightning all over it.
Who do you think Dragon will flex against? I think Oda will choose to flex on Greenbull, but I hope not. Greenbull desperately needs some hype, even though his feats are top tier his portrayal took a hit cause Oda wanted to sellout for some movie, Dehyping the same guy again wouldn't sit well with me. I am trying to think of someone else who is powerful enough to hype while also expendable (he achieved his goal), but can't figure it out.

Hm atmosphere sounds like a higher level logia power than wind would be so I like that idea. It would actually also explain how he has the ability to control the weather too. Honestly if he has this kind of power it would make him unstoppable in a sea battle since a controlled weather phenomena targeting opponents guarantees the sink.

As for who I think he'll flex on I'll say a large mass of WG forces led by Ciphor Pol & having some marine vice admirals of note too. Basically I see the WG making a move to take over an island (like what they were going to attempt with Wano) and the Revolutionaries interfering (I think Alabasta would be the perfect place for this to go down since the royal family is gone and it has symbolic significance to WG). As the WG ships arrive in mass there will be a single Revo ship in front of them before they can get to land. Then Dragon stands on the front of the ship and summons an attack like you mentioned at the WG forces decimating them. The Gorosei will be on the line with Ciphor pol as this happens and make their commentary that war with Revo's must start now. I think a giant AoE flex suits Dragon and making the WG, especially Gorosei plan fail would be perfect for him.

For Mihawk, I can see him cutting the entire atmosphere in half as his flex. Basically doing what two top tier advanced conqueror's haki users do when clashing, but split it as a result of one of his attacks. Splitting the ocean in half also could be pretty hype as well.
Cutting an island in two wouldn't be a hype moment, S-Hawk almost did that, Mihawk did an equivalent feat in Marineford too, so did Zoro back in Dresrossa arc.
Who do you think Mihawk will flex against? I can see Oda use Fujitora or Magellan, when Cross Guild is going to Impel Down to break out Doffy/Weevil. Again, for same reason as I mentioned for Dragon, Fujitora hopefully isn't that guy. Though he wasn't humiliated like Greenbull, he doesn't have solid feats either (flexing on Dresrossa SHs who are fodder to him doesn't count). Cutting Jozu would be hype AF, but both these are "good guy pirates", I don't see how and why narratively this could happpen,

Hm I still think cutting an island truly in half would be a huge feat. I'm not imagining him just carving a canyon or something. I'm thinking the cut is so deep it goes deep enough to expose lava and truly split the island in half with the ocean forming in between. I don't think we've seen anything close to this except when WB used Gura Gura powers to do that in Marineford.

As for who he'd flex against I think him taking out an Admiral would be dope to cement the Marine Hunter epithet. I also like your idea of CG going to attack Impel Down to free the other former warlords. I think Impel down allows to hype flex moment opportunities:

• Imagine Mihawk defeating Magellan with a named finisher attack at full strength and cutting an Impel Down an island in half the way I described it. This would mean the cut goes through all the levels of hell and splits the whole thing down the middle. This would be the end of Impel Down and a giant free for all escape by everyone. This would be the permanent end of one of the 3 great WG locations!
• On the other hand another cool opportunity for flex moment for Mihawk are the Gates of Justice. Like imagine the way they get to Impel Down is Mihawk cuts the Gate of Justice clean across diagonally making it collapse all together. This would mean the end of WG ocean current and would hype Mihawk af.

Once Mihawk goes all out and get feats, we are about to see one of the biggest meltdowns and copium we have seen in the fanbase. It will be worse than "Mihawk is YC1+" clown takes that got completely destroyed by chapter 1058. Can't wait for it lmao.

Haha I expect that to happen too. I think too many people sleep on his hype. I don't like making a very direct claim like Mihawk > Shanks due to be WSS but I do think Mihawk is up there. Personally I put both Shanks and Mihawk as >= Kaido. This is just shonen 101 for me since Shanks & Mihawk & even BB are essentially going to be at their peak strength in the present story and they are also the peak of power in current era. I expect the feats we will see out of all 3 to be what we'd expect to see out of Roger, WB, Garp etc when they were at their peak and at the pinnacle of their era. This forum will def have meltdown when the full fights for these characters happen.

Like I said, we simply can't attribute every feat of Law/Kid, or anti-feat of BM, to CIS/PIS/plot.

The only blatant CIS is BM turning her back on Kid/Law when they were down. Everything else, is part of the package of villains in OP, not specifically BM.

We kept seeing fodders get knocked out around her, meaning BM was using advanced conqueror's in some of her attacks at least. It's moreso Oda never bothering to show them IMO

Yeah I agree she lost not only due to CIS/PIS. Both Kid & Law are impressive peeps and BM is just not as impressive as the other Yonko we've seen either (if you ask me). Regarding the haki knocking people out I think she is constantly blasting CoC haki but doesn't appear to use aCoC much.

 

[Fox666]

We saw how easily Aokiji froze BB's commanders and put BB in an awkward spot to not be able to use his Quake DF in fear of destroying the frozen comrades.
Im leaning on Aokiji >/= BB.

Shonen rules dictate that if Aokiji is working for Blackbeard, Blackbeard is stronger

We have seen that Kaido, Shanks, etc can one-shot a commander-level character, so Aokiji doing that is no surprise

In fact Vasco Shot and the others may not even be "commander"-level, they may be future opponents of the weaker Straw Hats

 

[Pirate Queen]

I can agree that it was more of a Shanks hype moment than a Kid downplay moment since the attack even took out Killer. The Red Hair pirates are definitely looking very threatening in combat after that showing.

As for Law's performance against BB, it's hard to say for me. Just due to BBs characterization so far involving him getting hurt/hit it makes it more difficult to gauge how tough BB found the opponent. Personally I still think Law was low diff for BB and the injuries we see are superficial.


I'm good with this take. In fact the attack Shanks used is probably on the stronger side of his move set like Thunder Bagua (& variants) for Kaido. Any strong person without good defense (thinking Lunarian level) or aCoC taking that head on would meet same fate as Kid.


That's fair. In that case to me Big Mom had very good base due to her monster body but after that I think when it comes to her combat skills she is lack luster compared to most top tiers. By that I mean she relies heavily on large AoE type attacks that look flashy but lack in their ability to finish particularly strong foes. Kid and Law are strong but we can clearly see they don't have that type of durability which is why they both lost more easily when taking more powerful attacks from Shanks & BB.

However my ranking is different then yours. I'd put Shanks >= Kaido > Big Mom.


Hm atmosphere sounds like a higher level logia power than wind would be so I like that idea. It would actually also explain how he has the ability to control the weather too. Honestly if he has this kind of power it would make him unstoppable in a sea battle since a controlled weather phenomena targeting opponents guarantees the sink.

As for who I think he'll flex on I'll say a large mass of WG forces led by Ciphor Pol & having some marine vice admirals of note too. Basically I see the WG making a move to take over an island (like what they were going to attempt with Wano) and the Revolutionaries interfering (I think Alabasta would be the perfect place for this to go down since the royal family is gone and it has symbolic significance to WG). As the WG ships arrive in mass there will be a single Revo ship in front of them before they can get to land. Then Dragon stands on the front of the ship and summons an attack like you mentioned at the WG forces decimating them. The Gorosei will be on the line with Ciphor pol as this happens and make their commentary that war with Revo's must start now. I think a giant AoE flex suits Dragon and making the WG, especially Gorosei plan fail would be perfect for him.


Hm I still think cutting an island truly in half would be a huge feat. I'm not imagining him just carving a canyon or something. I'm thinking the cut is so deep it goes deep enough to expose lava and truly split the island in half with the ocean forming in between. I don't think we've seen anything close to this except when WB used Gura Gura powers to do that in Marineford.

As for who he'd flex against I think him taking out an Admiral would be dope to cement the Marine Hunter epithet. I also like your idea of CG going to attack Impel Down to free the other former warlords. I think Impel down allows to hype flex moment opportunities:

• Imagine Mihawk defeating Magellan with a named finisher attack at full strength and cutting an Impel Down an island in half the way I described it. This would mean the cut goes through all the levels of hell and splits the whole thing down the middle. This would be the end of Impel Down and a giant free for all escape by everyone. This would be the permanent end of one of the 3 great WG locations!
• On the other hand another cool opportunity for flex moment for Mihawk are the Gates of Justice. Like imagine the way they get to Impel Down is Mihawk cuts the Gate of Justice clean across diagonally making it collapse all together. This would mean the end of WG ocean current and would hype Mihawk af.

Haha I expect that to happen too. I think too many people sleep on his hype. I don't like making a very direct claim like Mihawk > Shanks due to be WSS but I do think Mihawk is up there. Personally I put both Shanks and Mihawk as >= Kaido. This is just shonen 101 for me since Shanks & Mihawk & even BB are essentially going to be at their peak strength in the present story and they are also the peak of power in current era. I expect the feats we will see out of all 3 to be what we'd expect to see out of Roger, WB, Garp etc when they were at their peak and at the pinnacle of their era. This forum will def have meltdown when the full fights for these characters happen.


Yeah I agree she lost not only due to CIS/PIS. Both Kid & Law are impressive peeps and BM is just not as impressive as the other Yonko we've seen either (if you ask me). Regarding the haki knocking people out I think she is constantly blasting CoC haki but doesn't appear to use aCoC much.

Cutting the Gates of Justice would have me screaming from sheer hype. Even more so that him splitting the ocean in half

 

[HereNThere]

Shonen rules dictate that if Aokiji is working for Blackbeard, Blackbeard is stronger

We have seen that Kaido, Shanks, etc can one-shot a commander-level character, so Aokiji doing that is no surprise

In fact Vasco Shot and the others may not even be "commander"-level, they may be future opponents of the weaker Straw Hats

In this case, not necessarily. Aside from the likelyhood that Kuzan is just a temp worker until he accomplishes his goals, everything we know about Admirals would imply that he's comparable, if not slighty stronger at this moment, than BB.

I look at these moments with BB's crew and think of them like similar moment with the Strawhats when they get into their adventure derailing shenanigans that render them incapacitated or in some sort of trouble. I think, like BB, they are going to sandbag quite a bit, but when they get serious, they'll step their game up in a big way. If they were jobbing to characters who we know aren't particular strong, I'd understand, but getting got by Hancock, whose ability is particularly hax, or Kuzan, a former Admiral, shouldn't be a huge mark against them.

 

[albertwv]

I genuinely blame the anime to why folks believe WB is so much stronger than akainu
The anime and manga are so so different

Blame whatever. I only read manga. In the manga, it showed WB > Akainu, not by much but still stronger.
Remember, people tend to forget these events. WB was old, had heart failure in battle, could not use HAKI at all, collapsed in the middle of battle of Akainu which Akainu then blasted a hole in his body, was stabbed in the abdomen by a man he trusted.
WB went thru a lot before defeating Akainu. Akainu got lucky the ground went under.
Manga or anime, the manga is accurate that WB > Akainu.


Kaido vs Mihawk is a joke. Kaido is not a swordsman therefore Mihawk cannot be stronger than him by title association. Nonetheless, Mihawk clashed with a YC (Vista), Kaido would have knocked Vista out right away.
Kaido > Mihawk.
Damn these Mihawk fans won't stop.

 

[FetherMan]

I think, Mihawk will be a surprise for sure. Oda has been waiting for the right time to truly show off his capabilities and it’s coming.

I also, think that he and Shanks may have fought before in the past. More likely this’ll be a flashback scene…

 

[DeadlyBeast]

Mihawk is for sure going to be a monster. There is a lot going for him so I don't know why anyone would claim he is YC level when he is clearly going to be one of the strongest fighters the manga has to offer.

• He is one of 3 fighters who the narrator has given a World's Strongest title. The other two being WB and Kaido so it's clear Oda's intentions with these titles is to convey top class strength.
• He has the most powerful of all the 12 Great Blades in Yoru. The only other characters we have ever known to even own a 12 Great Blades are WB and Roger. Again placing Mihawk among the best of the best.
• Mihawk is the only living swordsman who uses a black blade and has been hinted to have accomplished this feat himself. The fact that turning Enma black is a goal for Zoro and that the only other character known to have done this is Ryuma makes this a very big deal too.
• His first and only bounty we readers have seen is already within the top bounties ever. I know people don't like using bounties but they do indicate the level of hype Oda wants us to have even if they are not direct measure of power level.
• Mihawk is the end goal of one of the main characters of the story purely in the realm of combat.
• Lastly, he is an unofficial Yonko. The reality is that Mihawk is the Yonko of the Cross Guild which definitely places him as a Yonko level fighter.

At the end of the day this manga is a Shonen too so powerful characters who only end up fighting towards the end will likely be the peak of the story. We don't have enough info to genuinely claim a power level order between people like Shanks, Kaido, and Mihawk BUT we do have enough info to argue that these 3 are at the peak of power in the current era.

Just do to order of revelations in the characters combat ability, I personally wouldn't be surprised if both Shanks & Mihawk are >= Kaido.