One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[Darklord#10]

though I vaguely remember the number 10.

Yeah it was ten seconds. I remember during the the wedding with pudding and Sanji kata knew something would happen but cuz it was ten seconds he couldn't see what Sanji was going to pull. I vaguely remember that part but yeah it should be ten seconds

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 9, 2023, Original Post Date: Jul 9, 2023 ---

Oda gave Kidd awakening tho.

In verse, it makes sense.

Both Kidd and Law are very reliant on DF. So they got awakening.
They didn't have legends training them haki like Luffy or Zoro had. Luffy also had Hyogoro train him haki flow in Udon prison.

Luffy got future sight because Katakuri fight was his observation haki "training".

That makes sense but DF abilities can be countered by stronger haki so being over reliant on DF is bad but how does Blackbeard do it. All his crew members are heavily reliant on devil fruit even he is heavily reliant on devil fruit. Blackbeard even hunts down devil fruit users

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 9, 2023 ---

Oda gave Kidd awakening tho.

In verse, it makes sense.

Both Kidd and Law are very reliant on DF. So they got awakening.
They didn't have legends training them haki like Luffy or Zoro had. Luffy also had Hyogoro train him haki flow in Udon prison.

Luffy got future sight because Katakuri fight was his observation haki "training".



Yeah, he has advanced observation haki......I forgot how far Katakuri can see, though I vaguely remember the number 10.

Yeah, FS can be countered by being much faster. Kaido never needed to use FS against Luffy until that one moment with Snakeman G4 barrage. Kaido prior was landing hits on Luffy by simply being fast enough.

But Zoro has advanced conquerors haki while Kidd doesn't have that. Kidd should have advanced conquerors haki. What's the difference between normal conquerors haki that you infuse in your attack and advanced conquerors haki. Also big mom didn't even use conquerors haki against Kidd and law, why?

 

[grey matter]

That makes sense but DF abilities can be countered by stronger haki so being over reliant on DF is bad but how does Blackbeard do it. All his crew members are heavily reliant on devil fruit even he is heavily reliant on devil fruit. Blackbeard even hunts down devil fruit users

Haki doesn't counter all DF abilities tho, even tho it's mostly true.

Law was able to bypass Kaido's and BM's defences and deal internal damage for example.

But Zoro has advanced conquerors haki while Kidd doesn't have that. Kidd should have advanced conquerors haki. What's the difference between normal conquerors haki that you infuse in your attack and advanced conquerors haki. Also big mom didn't even use conquerors haki against Kidd and law, why?

Because Zoro knows haki flow.
Advanced conqueror's haki and advanced armament haki require the same skill/concept of haki flow. Kid doesn't know how to flow/coat haki.

BM did use it sometimes, though not a lot on screen. My guess is that it's because most of the fight was offscreened, so we can maybe presume she used it off screen as well

When BM was hit by Kid's railgun, she did use advanced conqueror's haki in an attempt to coat conqueror's haki and block/overpower the beam. You could see tons of haki lightning here:

Spoiler

But she didn't use it when she was smacking Law's head though, that's clear CIS. Plot required it lol

 

[Pirate Queen]

I think BB's crews reliance on DF's will be there downfall. Just a gut feeling

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 9, 2023, Original Post Date: Jul 9, 2023 ---

I think the context of Big Mom being "fine" after tanking both Kidd and Law finishers and needing the nukes to do her in is largely ignored for the sake of portrayal.

Without the nukes she wouldn't have been defeated. There is a reason those bombs just HAPPENED to be right below where Law opened the hole down to Wano's lava level.

 

[Fallou]

I think BB's crews reliance on DF's will be there downfall. Just a gut feeling

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 9, 2023, Original Post Date: Jul 9, 2023 ---

I think the context of Big Mom being "fine" after tanking both Kidd and Law finishers and needing the nukes to do her in is largely ignored for the sake of portrayal.

Without the nukes she wouldn't have been defeated. There is a reason those bombs just HAPPENED to be right below where Law opened the hole down to Wano's lava level.

Well BBs crew is the opposite of Shanks in that regard. All DFs vs No DFs

 

[albertwv]

Kata vs Jimbei? Kata wins mid diff. Jimbei only has water to counter Kata's mochi, but I dont think he has the speed or attack power to overpower Kata. Jimbei could tank many of Kata's Block Mochi punches, but in the end I see Jimbei losing. Plus Kata would most likely be dodging most of Jimbei's hits. with FS.

Kata vs Kid. It is a mid-high diff battle. There was alot of speculation over who broke BM's arm. pLenty of people say Kid due to Kid's Metal Bull, but Law too was responsible for inside damage. So IMO, it was a combined effort, both parties were able to break BM's arm together. Neither would have done it alone.
Kid's rail beam didnt do damage to BM, it only managed to push her down the hole, as we saw she even mocked it. Is the rail beam powerful? Sure to cause destruction but on high level opponents, probably not so much.
Kata would still win the battle versus Kid, who really has nothing to go for besides blunt attacks and his rail beam, But I see Kata dodging the rail beam.

Kata vs King, can go either way so a tie is appropriate.

Oda failed Kid. He boosted him up to *seem* equal to Luffy but only through hype. In battle Kid is level below Luffy. I may not like it, I was hoping Kid would be the Gary to Ash Ketchum or the Sasuke to Naruto or Yuno to Asta, or the Bakugo to Deku. But no Oda decided Kid was unimportant and ignored him for a long time throughout the New world.

 

[Rein Avara]

Are we good?

 

[kkck]

I think BB's crews reliance on DF's will be there downfall. Just a gut feeling

I think this depends. At least some of BB's crewmembers have important martial prowess of some sort and it would be weird if they overrely on their fruits.

1.- Burgues was a competent fighter well before he had a fruit. And the fruit he got is a perfect complement to his skillset. he seems pretty balanced.
2.- Van augur was an insanely good sniper before his fruit. And he clearly still relies heavily on his sniping.
3.- Shiryu is clearly a pretty damn competent swordsman and his fruit is useful but so far not exactly a heavy hitter.
4.- Unclear when catarina got her devil fruit but if she got it only recently then she definitely has high martial prowess cosnidering her infamy.
5.- Pizarro strikes me as having his devil fruit from before and it seems to be a stronger version of pica's so he might depend on it too much.
6.- No idea about vasco shot.
7.- Laffite had his fruit before the timeskip as far as we know. So no idea about him.
8.- Doc Q... he probably is somewhat gimmicky given his apparent sickness. No idea of when he got his fruit.
9.- SJW does seem like he relies entirely on his devil fruit. It is at least the only thing he is known for so far.

BB's executives don't seem THAT different so far from other yonko executives in terms of relying on fruits.

 

[Merlin918]

You're scaring me merlin-kun

Also, you changed my post to respond to kkck. You can't change this one too. Your policy is to implement one true change per forum. It isn't going to work. I was responding to you, PQ.

 

[Rein Avara]

That's a picture of a baby. Rein, you're an assassin. Guess what that means.

You've seen through my disguise, aur naurr

 

[Pirate Queen]

 

[Pirate Queen]

I think this depends. At least some of BB's crewmembers have important martial prowess of some sort and it would be weird if they overrely on their fruits.

1.- Burgues was a competent fighter well before he had a fruit. And the fruit he got is a perfect complement to his skillset. he seems pretty balanced.
2.- Van augur was an insanely good sniper before his fruit. And he clearly still relies heavily on his sniping.
3.- Shiryu is clearly a pretty damn competent swordsman and his fruit is useful but so far not exactly a heavy hitter.
4.- Unclear when catarina got her devil fruit but if she got it only recently then she definitely has high martial prowess cosnidering her infamy.
5.- Pizarro strikes me as having his devil fruit from before and it seems to be a stronger version of pica's so he might depend on it too much.
6.- No idea about vasco shot.
7.- Laffite had his fruit before the timeskip as far as we know. So no idea about him.
8.- Doc Q... he probably is somewhat gimmicky given his apparent sickness. No idea of when he got his fruit.
9.- SJW does seem like he relies entirely on his devil fruit. It is at least the only thing he is known for so far.

BB's executives don't seem THAT different so far from other yonko executives in terms of relying on fruits.

I mean Im the sense that they all get sunk and they can't save eachother whereas the Strawhats have several non df users to save them. Nami, Franky, Sanji, Zoro, Ussop

 

[Bandit99]

 

[Fox666]

One minor note

San Juan Wolf is 180m tall with his ability

Which makes me think the ability makes him exactly 10 times bigger

 

[Pirate Queen]

Mihawk to Shanks before every duel*

 

[I Am Atomic]

Mihawk to Shanks before every duel*

Mihawk to Shanks if they did use haki before every duel

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

I think BB's crews reliance on DF's will be there downfall. Just a gut feeling

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 9, 2023, Original Post Date: Jul 9, 2023 ---

I think the context of Big Mom being "fine" after tanking both Kidd and Law finishers and needing the nukes to do her in is largely ignored for the sake of portrayal.

Without the nukes she wouldn't have been defeated. There is a reason those bombs just HAPPENED to be right below where Law opened the hole down to Wano's lava level.

I think this depends. At least some of BB's crewmembers have important martial prowess of some sort and it would be weird if they overrely on their fruits.

1.- Burgues was a competent fighter well before he had a fruit. And the fruit he got is a perfect complement to his skillset. he seems pretty balanced.
2.- Van augur was an insanely good sniper before his fruit. And he clearly still relies heavily on his sniping.
3.- Shiryu is clearly a pretty damn competent swordsman and his fruit is useful but so far not exactly a heavy hitter.
4.- Unclear when catarina got her devil fruit but if she got it only recently then she definitely has high martial prowess cosnidering her infamy.
5.- Pizarro strikes me as having his devil fruit from before and it seems to be a stronger version of pica's so he might depend on it too much.
6.- No idea about vasco shot.
7.- Laffite had his fruit before the timeskip as far as we know. So no idea about him.
8.- Doc Q... he probably is somewhat gimmicky given his apparent sickness. No idea of when he got his fruit.
9.- SJW does seem like he relies entirely on his devil fruit. It is at least the only thing he is known for so far.

BB's executives don't seem THAT different so far from other yonko executives in terms of relying on fruits.

big mum healed herself multiple times fighting kidd and law as well as powering herself up
also bb pirates were infamous and strong pirates in level 6 before their newly acquired fruits

 

[Australopithecus]

I think BB's crews reliance on DF's will be there downfall. Just a gut feeling

It seems that Oda is setting up a scenario where the strongest devil fruit users will face off against a crew that primarily utilizes Haki. Oda has consistently portrayed Blackbeard and Luffy as complete opposites. Luffy's path to fulfilling his aspirations is paved with Haki, while Blackbeard relies on the might of devil fruits. Ultimately, this will lead to a monumental showdown to determine which approach reigns supreme.

 

[Fallou]

Mihawk to Shanks if they did use haki before every duel

You know this actually is an almost perfect trochaic tetrameter right there

 

[kkck]

It seems that Oda is setting up a scenario where the strongest devil fruit users will face off against a crew that primarily utilizes Haki. Oda has consistently portrayed Blackbeard and Luffy as complete opposites. Luffy's path to fulfilling his aspirations is paved with Haki, while Blackbeard relies on the might of devil fruits. Ultimately, this will lead to a monumental showdown to determine which approach reigns supreme.

Luffy is definitely a very skilled haki user but his victories are very contingent on powering up via his devil fruit. Luffys awakening is in fact central to the metaplot. Luffy is a very balanced fighter, much like kaido and big mom, considering his martial prowess, haki and devil fruit. It just can't be true that luffy relies on haki. He uses everything. Now, bb is a different issue, it's entirely feasible his overconfidence and over reliance on devil fruits could be his downfall.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 14, 2023, Original Post Date: Jul 14, 2023 ---

Let alone that the strawhat crew is shit haki wise. Luffy, zoro, sanji and jinbe are obviously powerful haki users but there's no evidence that the remaining strawhats have any amount of competency at it. Ussop is the only one that has been shown using it among the lesser strawhats and he is at best a rookie at it. Every other yonko crew including BBs is leagues ahead the strawhats in the haki department as far as we know.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 14, 2023 ---

Something i was just wondering... Could robin be an awakening user? I was thinking her creating clones and perhaps her black demon technique could be a result of awakening her ability. which would track considering how liberally robin uses her devil fruit.

 

[Australopithecus]

Luffy is definitely a very skilled haki user but his victories are very contingent on powering up via his devil fruit. Luffys awakening is in fact central to the metaplot. Luffy is a very balanced fighter, much like kaido and big mom, considering his martial prowess, haki and devil fruit. It just can't be true that luffy relies on haki.

When fighting, Luffy uses both his Devil Fruit abilities and his Haki. It appears that his Devil Fruit powers are reliant on his use of Haki. For instance, when he enters Gear 4, he employs Haki to initiate and maintain the transformation. When he transformed into Nika, his body emitted black lightning, which is commonly associated with the use of Conqueror's Haki. Therefore, in Gear 4, Luffy's transformation is combined with Armament Haki, while in Gear 5, it is combined with Conqueror's Haki.

He uses everything. Now, bb is a different issue, it's entirely feasible his overconfidence and over reliance on devil fruits could be his downfall.

Yes, that is what I think as well.
In my opinion, Luffy's Haki will be crucial during his battle against Blackbeard as the latter's darkness devil fruit has the ability to cancel out other devil fruit powers.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 14, 2023, Original Post Date: Jul 14, 2023 ---

Let alone that the strawhat crew is shit haki wise. Luffy, zoro, sanji and jinbe are obviously powerful haki users but there's no evidence that the remaining strawhats have any amount of competency at it. Ussop is the only one that has been shown using it among the lesser strawhats and he is at best a rookie at it. Every other yonko crew including BBs is leagues ahead the strawhats in the haki department as far as we know.

It's unfortunate, but the crew will still be a suitable match for Luffy's crew. The strongest fighters will engage in a haki fight against Luffy's top fighters, while the others will face off in other areas. For instance, Usopp will face his greatest challenge in terms of his sniping skills. I'm not sure how Oda will handle the rest, but since the majority of Luffy's crew don't utilize haki, they will have to rely on their usual methods of fighting.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 14, 2023 ---

Something i was just wondering... Could robin be an awakening user? I was thinking her creating clones and perhaps her black demon technique could be a result of awakening her ability. which would track considering how liberally robin uses her devil fruit.

I hope so. That would be cool tbh.