One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

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As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[DeadlyBeast]

I think the issue here is that going forward the egghead events won't necessarily maintain that structure. As in, the strawhats necessarily going up ahead enemies according to strength. I don't think we should necessarily assume that a fleet spearheaded by the highest ranked tenryubito has only one admiral and it's probably a safe bet that the fleet has at least enough vice admirals for a buster call. Numbers wise the arc is not really set for the strawhats to have one on one fights. The strawhat's objective for the time being should be to escape egghead, not defeat the world government. Though of course this should imply a number of confrontations between the strawhats and admirals and vice admirals.

That's true that they don't have to be 1v1 fights. Numbers wise they are at a disadvantage but I'm not sure they are disadvantaged when thinking of quality of fighters. If Luffy, Zoro, and Sanji can handle Saturn and Kizaru, and VP is able to take back control of the Seraphim then the rest of the SHs should be able to take on the rest of the forces. However, I do agree with you that the best course of action is to leave Egghead with VP and only fight for that objective.

On a sidenote, I also wonder just how damn strong chinjao was in his prime. IIRC it was said he and garp fought multiple times and garp leveled a mountain honing his fist to eventually overcome chinjao's head. I don't think it's likely chinjao was a yonko level fighter but... maybe just shy of an admiral?

Chinjao is implied to have been a fairly strong fighter. However, we also don't know exactly when Garp and him fought so it could have been prior to him reaching his peak. Alternatively it could be that in a full fight Garp would have mopped the floor with Chinjao but instead he chose to make this a fight between his punch vs the drill head which may have been more even a competition.

And another thought... We know that haki sort of flourishes in battle. I wonder if perhaps the presence of the yonko in a way served to... hold back the growth of pirates that could have become monsters otherwise. The yonko had massive crews that became pretty effective at controlling their side of the world. Most pirates that arrive to the new world so far aim to join one of the yonko and work under their protection. Sure, new yonko have arrived but it's fairly clear the new world is incredibly chaotic right now. BB is making moves left and right, who knows what happened to big mom's and kaido's territories, the cross guild is clearly chipping away at the marine's military power and morale.. With the new world being in utter chaos and probably being that much more dangerous perhaps the immediate consequence is the strength of pirates across the board flourishing, even if they might lack unified leadership. Which would perhaps resemble the seas from roger's days.

I think in a proxy way this is true. The Yonko created a level of stability that reduced constant conflict which probably did dampen the ability of people to get stronger. Plus the best of the best usually were targets resulting in Yonko taking them out before they could ever really flourish.

 

[kkck]

That's true that they don't have to be 1v1 fights. Numbers wise they are at a disadvantage but I'm not sure they are disadvantaged when thinking of quality of fighters. If Luffy, Zoro, and Sanji can handle Saturn and Kizaru, and VP is able to take back control of the Seraphim then the rest of the SHs should be able to take on the rest of the forces. However, I do agree with you that the best course of action is to leave Egghead with VP and only fight for that objective.


Chinjao is implied to have been a fairly strong fighter. However, we also don't know exactly when Garp and him fought so it could have been prior to him reaching his peak. Alternatively it could be that in a full fight Garp would have mopped the floor with Chinjao but instead he chose to make this a fight between his punch vs the drill head which may have been more even a competition.


I think in a proxy way this is true. The Yonko created a level of stability that reduced constant conflict which probably did dampen the ability of people to get stronger. Plus the best of the best usually were targets resulting in Yonko taking them out before they could ever really flourish.

Barring shenanigans vegapunk shouldn't be able to regain control of the seraphines. The main vegapunk doesn't outrank the satellites but more importantly saturn outranks vegapunk in priority. I suppose there could be a backdoor or something for vegapunk to regain control, or maybe even just freeing them completely, but saturn being there is insanely problematic.

I am not necessarily convinced that the strawhats have that big an advantage in terms of quality. I continue to rank yonko above admirals in general but an admiral is still not someone that falls easily. Let alone that kizaru's fruit is pretty much bs, dunno how it isn't more dangerous than a magma or ice fruit. 5 vice admirals (the minimum for a buster call) are likely not easy enemies for the remaining strawhats and odds are that the power scaling won't hurt them as much as you'd think. It really does depend on which VAs though I would still think the main ones seen at marineford are more than capable of tangling with at least the standard yonko executives. Add to that saturn and just a massive fleet. And the pacifista not being reliable allies. Vegapunk should be using the paw paw fruit to get the pacifista to the north pole or something....

I feel like the scenario is that for a long time the best of the best would face the yonko and simply die trying. The strawhats and co simply pulled it off, unlike other jackasses from the previous 20 years. The yonko ultimately were exceptionally powerful crews, not just the captain and handful of executives.

 

[Rein Avara]

think in a proxy way this is true. The Yonko created a level of stability that reduced constant conflict which probably did dampen the ability of people to get stronger. Plus the best of the best usually were targets resulting in Yonko taking them out before they could ever really flourish.

I think this also affected the marines

 

[DeadlyBeast]

I think this also affected the marines

Oh interesting take. So you think today's marines are weaker than older generation?

 

[Rein Avara]

Oh interesting take. So you think today's marines are weaker than older generation?

For the most part, yeah. Kong seems strong just based off his appearance, we know Z and Sengoku were the admirals of the old gen, Garp was a vice admiral but his strength was pretty much on par or even greater than theirs. A lot of the current vice admirals were also present during the old gen and they seem quite formidable.

I don't think the Yonkou system was in place during the old gen so there was definitely a lot more conflict which would have required the marines to interfere a lot more, resulting in many 3-4 way battles.

The current day admirals COULD be stronger than the old gen, if we take into account the capabilities of their DFs. But overall I am of the opinion that the current marines lack in the combat prowess.

 

[albertwv]

For the most part, yeah. Kong seems strong just based off his appearance, we know Z and Sengoku were the admirals of the old gen, Garp was a vice admiral but his strength was pretty much on par or even greater than theirs. A lot of the current vice admirals were also present during the old gen and they seem quite formidable.

I don't think the Yonkou system was in place during the old gen so there was definitely a lot more conflict which would have required the marines to interfere a lot more, resulting in many 3-4 way battles.

The current day admirals COULD be stronger than the old gen, if we take into account the capabilities of their DFs. But overall I am of the opinion that the current marines lack in the combat prowess.

We dont know when exactly the Yonko became a system nor the Warlords in regards to timeline. For sure at least we know there were 4 Yonkos 6 years ago with Shanks joining them. We dont know if there were 4 before he joined or if it was jus WB, Kaido, and BM. In that case it would be the SANko (3 Emperors).
In terms with the Warlords, whose purpose I believe was to counter the Yonko, they have been around since 10 years ago, so even before Shanks joined. We dont know if that was when they started but we have a year date.

The Yonko system could have started as soon as Roger died, since WB was basically crowned king, BM by then probably already had her kingdom, and Kaido was already in Wano stronghold. By the time Roger died, 3 Yonkos were already established amongst themselves, were they called the Yonko? I doubt it. But the world were aware of them.

I disagree with the current admirals being stronger than the old gen. For some reason Oda favorites the old gen, which I like. Since day 1, I have seen old Garp > the current admirals, albeit a high difficulty but still. Old Garp, Old Sengoku, Old Ray > 3 Admirals.
The admirals what they have is all-mighty destructive capabilities with their DFs that is why people think they are the strongest, but what Kaido said, Haki users are stronger than DF users (something like that).

Look at Old Garp, he man-handled Aokiji, or Old Ray clashing with Kizaru, or Old WB taking down Akainu.
So if Old Gen can do this, imagine them in their prime.
I dont think we have a perfect scene to compare Old Gen's attacks to their Primes. But im sure it would blow us all away.

Im tired of people thinking that the current Admirals cant be defeated without high diff by anyone in the OP universe. I dont see Roger or Prime WB having much more than maybe mid-diff any Admiral. I argue that Oden at his time with WB and Roger was at best Admiral level, shy of Yonko. And look how he was swatted away by Roger.

 

[Fox666]

If luffy fights Saturn he will lose. I really think the Gorosei are on a whole another lvl

I don't think it makes much sense if the Gorosei are that strong

The Gorosei rely way too much on the Admirals, and seem to worry about every move a Yonko makes

Besides, I don't think Sabo would have survived against basically six Kaidos...

 

[kkck]

The most likely scenario is that the yonko system is something that appeared over time. We saw a bit of how WB went from a powerful crew to a yonko crew. At some point during his travels with oden he had too many people and decided to form divisions with executives as leaders of each. IIRC WB had something like 5 divisions at the time oden left for roger's crew. And of course by the time of the great war WB had 16 divisions, though oden's was left without a executive. We also saw how BB ended up joining WB.. he pretty much simply asked to join and was accepted. With this in mind it sounds like the yonko system is something that formed over time but it began brewing after xebex was defeated.

Of course, we don't know the history of every yonko crew but it can be fun to speculate. Big mom built her crew around her kids. 40 years back most would have been too young to be fighters but at least her older children would have been around at the time big mom travelled with xebec. Over time she got more children whose strength increased. More crew become affiliated with her. At some point she arrives to the territory which she would come to call her kingdom. Kaido in turn had at least king, queen and jack at the time he conquered wano which he turned into his base. Also the numbers. His crew was clearly powerful at this point though a the start not big enough to take on wano's military. Over time his crew grew and the samurai were weakened.

Shanks became the fourth yonko much later in the game by all appearances. It doesn't seem like he had that status at the time he met luffy.

 

[Fox666]

The most likely scenario is that the yonko system is something that appeared over time. We saw a bit of how WB went from a powerful crew to a yonko crew. At some point during his travels with oden he had too many people and decided to form divisions with executives as leaders of each. IIRC WB had something like 5 divisions at the time oden left for roger's crew. And of course by the time of the great war WB had 16 divisions, though oden's was left without a executive. We also saw how BB ended up joining WB.. he pretty much simply asked to join and was accepted. With this in mind it sounds like the yonko system is something that formed over time but it began brewing after xebex was defeated.

Of course, we don't know the history of every yonko crew but it can be fun to speculate. Big mom built her crew around her kids. 40 years back most would have been too young to be fighters but at least her older children would have been around at the time big mom travelled with xebec. Over time she got more children whose strength increased. More crew become affiliated with her. At some point she arrives to the territory which she would come to call her kingdom. Kaido in turn had at least king, queen and jack at the time he conquered wano which he turned into his base. Also the numbers. His crew was clearly powerful at this point though a the start not big enough to take on wano's military. Over time his crew grew and the samurai were weakened.

Shanks became the fourth yonko much later in the game by all appearances. It doesn't seem like he had that status at the time he met luffy.

Despite having massive crews, it's really their captains that mattered the most

Ever since the Rocks split up 38 years ago, Whitebeard, Kaido and Big Mom began to establish themselves

So I would expect the Yonko to go way back...

But another factor is the One Piece. Kaido and Big Mom may have been wandering around before, but once Roger was executed 24 years ago, they had to plan on collecting the Poneglyphs

Kaido and Big Mom decided that the more control they have over the islands in the New Worlds, the easier it would be to get all Poneglyphs. Whitebeard wasn't interested, but did the same to protect his territory from them

The timeline also matches with the formation of the Shichibukai around 20 years ago, in response to the Yonko

It does raises the question if they were called the Sanko (Three Emperors) before Shanks, or if there could be someone else...?

 

[kkck]

Despite having massive crews, it's really their captains that mattered the most

Ever since the Rocks split up 38 years ago, Whitebeard, Kaido and Big Mom began to establish themselves

So I would expect the Yonko to go way back...

But another factor is the One Piece. Kaido and Big Mom may have been wandering around before, but once Roger was executed 24 years ago, they had to plan on collecting the Poneglyphs

Kaido and Big Mom decided that the more control they have over the islands in the New Worlds, the easier it would be to get all Poneglyphs. Whitebeard wasn't interested, but did the same to protect his territory from them

The timeline also matches with the formation of the Shichibukai around 20 years ago, in response to the Yonko

It does raises the question if they were called the Sanko (Three Emperors) before Shanks, or if there could be someone else...?

The captains are definitely important but it is the sheer size of crews that pretty much defines them. It's what allows them to operate on a multi island scale as rogue nations. Can you imagine if current luffy with his executives went to war with the entirely of kaidos crew? Luffy can match kaidos executives man to man but if they raid onigashima with only ten people they are going to get bombarded for every direction non stop until they are all dead. Military might matters in this series.

 

[LaGOAT]

I don't think it makes much sense if the Gorosei are that strong

The Gorosei rely way too much on the Admirals, and seem to worry about every move a Yonko makes

Besides, I don't think Sabo would have survived against basically six Kaidos...

Why if they have people to do the work-for why not just use them?


Bruh luffy and his crew escape from big mom territory somehow same how luffy and his crew escape a buster call from enies lobby sabo escaping Was mainly because cobra help him to escape simple lol

 

[Ricko]

Something interesting is who was the opponent of WG before Yonko and the Revo ?

During 800 years it's difficult to think that it was a peaceful world until Roger became King of Pirates.
There was already a powerfull military organisation in the shape of the Marine, but i wonder if their was powerfull D in the past, running havoc.

 

[Fox666]

The captains are definitely important but it is the sheer size of crews that pretty much defines them. It's what allows them to operate on a multi island scale as rogue nations. Can you imagine if current luffy with his executives went to war with the entirely of kaidos crew? Luffy can match kaidos executives man to man but if they raid onigashima with only ten people they are going to get bombarded for every direction non stop until they are all dead. Military might matters in this series.

Does it?

Nobody in Big Mom's crew could stop her tantrums, and after Luffy "died" Kaido went to fight the samurai himself and they were hopeless

Luffy himself now has mountain-sized punches, if they tried to ride Onigashima alone they could destroy it from outside

Also Luffy's title of Yonko seems to include his grand fleet which has thousand of men

 

[kkck]

Does it?

Nobody in Big Mom's crew could stop her tantrums, and after Luffy "died" Kaido went to fight the samurai himself and they were hopeless

Luffy himself now has mountain-sized punches, if they tried to ride Onigashima alone they could destroy it from outside

Also Luffy's title of Yonko seems to include his grand fleet which has thousand of men

At the time luffy "died? most of the big fighters on the strawhat side were also spent. Zoro was out of commission over the drug he took to temporarily recover and kidd and law barely made it against big mom. Setting aside how much damage sanji took from queen, neither him or jinbe are quite on the level to take on a yonko. Add to that kaido still having thousands of soldiers at play. Luffy can definitely destroy onigashima by himself but it's not like the place would be unprotected.

Sure,but the strawhat armada is not considered in the scenario I suggested, just luffy and his executives against the entirely of kaido's crew and forces. And even in this scenario I don't give the strawhats the edge considering that between the calamities (3), tobiropo (6), headliners (about 40-50) and numbers (10) kaido has easily enough people for the strawhat executives and affiliated captains to fight a handful of people each. Add to that to this day ussop and chopper not exactly carrying their weight yet and nami being situationally powerful. Let alone that kaido's army which includes 500 smile users vastly outnumbers the roughly 5000 pirate militia currently under the strawhat banner. it's important not to forget how much yamato, someone that can hold his ground against a yonko, did during the war. Yamato held back kaido, took out at least one number (can't quite remember if yamato took out a second one), protected momo, stopped the bombs from exploding...

 

[Pirate Queen]

Come out Coby Bros . Come meet ya boi.

Bro is cringe level, below fodder tier

 

[I Am Atomic]

Come out Coby Bros . Come meet ya boi.

Bro is cringe level, below fodder tier

Can't wait for him to get the Marvel treatment: tren boost

 

[DeadlyBeast]

Come out Coby Bros . Come meet ya boi.

Bro is cringe level, below fodder tier

So are they planning on recasting to make him look stronger for after Garp's training?

 

[john ellis]

@Pirate Queen are you sad by the fact honest impact could hurt Hancock

 

[Pirate Queen]

@Pirate Queen are you sad by the fact honest impact could hurt Hancock

If I was that thin skinned I wouldn't be your captain. After BB acknowledged Hancock would one shot him, if he let her go, nothing below Yonko Level feats against her would bother me.

 

[HereNThere]

Let's be honest(y impact), Koby's in a better spot, but he still ain't ready for the big leagues yet. Next time we see him? Sure. He's Garp's successor, but he ain't Garp yet. Hancock will dog walk him still.