One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
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As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[Crimson Ice]

Luffy vs Kizaru finally, hopefully this doesn't get off-screened.
Lucci vs Zolo, how it should've gone initially.

@Crimson Ice, well we have Base Luffy kicking kizaru with a ACoA attack. If you think Base Luffy who was scrapping with Kaido is as strong as you think, then Luffy should be fine without using Gears to fight Kizaru. Doubt it though.

IMO,
Luffy didn't have to use Gear 5 on Lucci, heck I think Gear 2 would have been enough maybe Gear 4. But of course Oda wanted to show off Gear 5 and explain how DFs are made up of dreams (bullshit explanation).

Zolo and Sanji are not ready for Kizaru, so idk why so many ppl wanted to see Zolo and Sanji fight Kizaru alone.
But Zolo dueling with Lucci is a good match, we'll have a better understanding of where Lucci stands among the YC1s.

Sentomaru should have fought Luffy at first just because I always wanted to see Luffy vs Sentomaru since he got his ass kicked by him, but nah Oda pulled a dumb one by having Lucci "kill" Sento.

Well no, because Luffy needed G5 to take out a top tier, and guess who's a top tier? Kizaru. This does not prove anything.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Thoughts on multiple instances where Zoro was referred as the first mate?

Never cared enough outside of it being a topic of discussion lol I don't think it changes anything lol

 

[albertwv]

Well no, because Luffy needed G5 to take out a top tier, and guess who's a top tier? Kizaru. This does not prove anything.

Yeah but Base luffy was scrapping with a top tier (Kaido) tho and who is a top tier? Kizaru. So by your logic it seems that is all he needs, no gears.

You're claiming Base Luffy can take down Yonko commanders. Luffy is strong but he aint that strong just yet, not Kaido level yet, not without gears or awakening.

 

[Crimson Ice]

Yeah but Base luffy was scrapping with a top tier (Kaido) tho and who is a top tier? Kizaru. So by your logic it seems that is all he needs, no gears.

You're claiming Base Luffy can take down Yonko commanders. Luffy is strong but he aint that strong just yet, not Kaido level yet, not without gears or awakening.

I said scrapping, not capable of winning. G5 was still needed, so no, that does not mean he can beat Kizaru in base. That logic was terrible.

Base Luffy can shit on yonko commanders, there's a big gap between Kaido and Queen, being able to fight against a relatively serious Kaido>>>>>Whatever Queen has done. There's nothing most of the yonko commanders we have seen can do to Luffy.

 

[DeadlyBeast]

Kizaru and Luffy are likely to be a relatively even fight. The 100x stronger expression where Rayleigh was a solid 1v1 opponent and the fact Admirals having 3 crown bounty equaling 3B berri just like Luffy. This fight I think will matter in that Luffy surpassing this level is needed for ready for the final WG enemies.

 

[john ellis]

Tbh base luffy can probably take down cracker and Jack, g4 stops any yc1 though, and g5 is low-med diff any yc1

honestly base luffy using ACoC probably takes down any yc1 even in base with ACoC I don’t see anyone being a threat to him. His punches will still be near yonko durability he doesn’t have G5’s ability to laugh at kaido’s hits and it’s versatility and power. Honestly g5 is ultra busted.

can we just talk how busted gear 5 is. It wraps reality partially to luffy’s will, it gives him incredible tankyness comparable if not superior to kaido’s. Even kaido could barely touch luffy when he was in g5, he lauched power attack after power attack and it did nothing. Its attack power is combined with ACoC is silly. His lightning attacks in the anime are yonko level destruction. Like honestly kizaru is going to struggle against g5. Can’t see kizaru beating g5 however I think plot convince will either keep luffy out of g5 or the fight will be stopped.

 

[BlackTiger]

I said scrapping, not capable of winning. G5 was still needed, so no, that does not mean he can beat Kizaru in base. That logic was terrible.

Base Luffy can shit on yonko commanders, there's a big gap between Kaido and Queen, being able to fight against a relatively serious Kaido>>>>>Whatever Queen has done. There's nothing most of the yonko commanders we have seen can do to Luffy.

FS base Luffy with or without advCoC still cannot hit Katakuri and will be his punching bag again just like what happened in WCI. Luffy was fighting Kaido who rarely used Thunder Bagua his fastest attack. He was keeping up with Kaido who kept using his non Thunder Bagua attacks. Even Big Mom who is much slower than Snakeman kept up with non Thunder Bagua Kaido.

Tbh base luffy can probably take down cracker and Jack, g4 stops any yc1 though, and g5 is low-med diff any yc1

honestly base luffy using ACoC probably takes down any yc1 even in base with ACoC I don’t see anyone being a threat to him. His punches will still be near yonko durability he doesn’t have G5’s ability to laugh at kaido’s hits and it’s versatility and power. Honestly g5 is ultra busted.

can we just talk how busted gear 5 is. It wraps reality partially to luffy’s will, it gives him incredible tankyness comparable if not superior to kaido’s. Even kaido could barely touch luffy when he was in g5, he lauched power attack after power attack and it did nothing. Its attack power is combined with ACoC is silly. His lightning attacks in the anime are yonko level destruction. Like honestly kizaru is going to struggle against g5. Can’t see kizaru beating g5 however I think plot convince will either keep luffy out of g5 or the fight will be stopped.

Luffy without gears or haki cannot beat Cracker. It took Kong Organ which overpowered Big Mom hakified arm to destroy 1 Biscuit Soldier. Current Luffy without gear and haki beating Cracker means he can destroy 1 biscuit soldier without haki or gear which means current Luffy punch without haki and gear is as strong as Kong Organ which overpowered Big Mom hakified arm. It does not make sense that current Luffy without haki and gear can overpower Big Mom punch coated with armament.

FS base Luffy with or without advCoC still cannot hit Katakuri and will be his punching bag again just like what happened in WCI. Base Luffy did well against Kaido because Kaido did not use FS and he was not as fast as Snakeman so base Luffy could hit Kaido and damage him with advCoC. That won't work against someone who uses FS 24/7 and has speed on par with Snakeman.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 7, 2023, Original Post Date: Sep 7, 2023 ---

Luffy does have a mastered FS nowso the rest is moot.

His CoO post Wano did not get any better. I reread Egghead Luffy vs Lucci. Luffy did not see into the future that Lucci would pierce Sentomaru. Someone with FS should have seen that future.

For example Katakuri saw into the future that assassin tried to kill Bege. He saw into the future that Luffy tried to show broken Mother Caramel picture to Big Mom.

In Egghead Luffy did not see into the future that Lucci pierced Sentomaru. It's not like Lucci was too fast for Luffy since he dodged Lucci attacks while sleeping.

So it's very baseless of you to say that Luffy got better FS mastery in Wano when his CoO in Egghead was worse than Katakuri's CoO feat in Wedding Cake event seeing into the future the assassins tried to kill Bege and Luffy tried to show broken Mother Caramel picture to Big Mom.

 

[john ellis]

@BlackTiger base luffy split the sky, he has ACoC, he’s faster than kata, how is kata honestly beating him. Even if he can’t which he’s faster so he should how is kata hurting base luffy, his durability is shit tons better now. Base kaido shits on kata, base kaido is compariable to base luffy. Hybrid kaido and g5 luffy are on a different level to what here base forms and would 100% shit on kata.

cracker is likely one shot by base luffy. If not he’s getting low differ luffy is on a whole different leve then he is at wci. WCI luffy g4 loses to base lufffy post wano. G5 luffy stomps 3 G4’s wci probably high diff.

Also lucci got low diff’d’ he did 0 damage to g5 luffy. He was toying with him. And he also got one shot. Lucci probably high diff’s cracker. And still was one shot and toyed with by g5. Cracker is not beating base luffy.

 

[BlackTiger]

@BlackTiger base luffy split the sky, he has ACoC, he’s faster than kata, how is kata honestly beating him. Even if he can’t which he’s faster so he should how is kata hurting base luffy, his durability is shit tons better now. Base kaido shits on kata, base kaido is compariable to base luffy. Hybrid kaido and g5 luffy are on a different level to what here base forms and would 100% shit on kata.

Base Luffy is not as fast as WCI Snakeman who is as fast as Katakuri. Base Luffy split the sky with injured Kaido. Luffy can split the sky because he had advCoC. Give Katakuri advCoC he will split the sky with Kaido too.

How is base Luffy hitting Katakuri honestly. Katakuri already hurt base Luffy. AdvCoC won't make Luffy more durable. Katakuri attacks still hurt base Luffy.

Katakuri shits on base Kaido in speed. Snakeman dodger like Katakuri shits on Snakeman punching bag like Kaido.

Hybrid did not make Kaido faster. Base and hybrid Kaifo tried to hit Luffy from behind and both times Luffy dodged the attack.

Katakuri's speed shits on base and hybrid Kaido speed.

Hybrid Kaido cannot shit on Katakuri when Katakuri punching bag, base Luffy embarrassed him.

Damaging Kaido=/=has speed to hit Katakuri. Those 2 are not related.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 7, 2023, Original Post Date: Sep 7, 2023 ---

cracker is likely one shot by base luffy. If not he’s getting low differ luffy is on a whole different leve then he is at wci. WCI luffy g4 loses to base lufffy post wano. G5 luffy stomps 3 G4’s wci probably high diff.

No that's impossible. Kong Organ that destroyed 1 biscuit soldier overpowered Big Mom hakified arm.

Luffy without gear and haki 1 shot Cracker means current Luffy without haki and gear can 1 shot Biscuit Soldier which means current Luffy without haki and gear can overpower Big Mom hakified arm too which is impossible.

WCI Gear 4 Luffy with haki low diffs base Luffy without haki.

You still have not addressed how current Luffy without haki and gear 1 shoting biscuit soldier because that means current Luffy without gear and haki punch is as strong as Kong Organ that overpowered Big Mom hakified arm.

 

[john ellis]

@BlackTiger if you gave kata ACoC he’s a potential yonko tier and this is an entirely different argument. He simply doesn’t have it. He’s not a yonko tier. ACoC had been credited to BM and kaido’s insane durability which luffy now has. He shrugs off hybrid kaido hits in g5.

base luffy has haki btw, as does base kaido. Good luck to any yc1 trying to handle yonko level haki.

 

[BlackTiger]

@BlackTiger if you gave kata ACoC he’s a potential yonko tier and this is an entirely different argument. He simply doesn’t have it. He’s not a yonko tier. ACoC had been credited to BM and kaido’s insane durability which luffy now has. He shrugs off hybrid kaido hits in g5.

base luffy has haki btw, as does base kaido. Good luck to any yc1 trying to handle yonko level haki.

Luffy split the sky with injured Kaido. Luffy split the sky with injured Kaido means base Luffy is as strong as injured Kaido.

That's doesn't mean advCoC can help Luffy to hit Katakuri.

He doesn't need to be a yonko tier to give a yonko a tough fight. Match up does matter. AdvCoC unfortunately does not make Luffy faster. Base Luffy with advCoC still cannot hit Katakuri and will get ragdolled again just like what happened in WCI.

"ACoC had been credited to BM and kaido’s insane durability which luffy now has"

When is this stated? AdvCoC doesn't boost durability. Do you have panels to back this up?

"He shrugs off hybrid kaido hits in g5."
Gear 5 without Bajrang Gun needs 24 hours to hit Katakuri. Gear 5 also boosts Luffy's durability. AdvCoC still does not make base Luffy more durable.

"Good luck to any yc1 trying to handle yonko level haki."

Good luck for base Luffy with advCoC which does not increase his speed to hit Katakuri. Katakuri will ragdoll him again just like what happened in WCI.

 

[john ellis]

@BlackTiger kaido was 80% at the time he was still within full power. Also luffy wasn’t at 100% either he taught against multiple opponents down stairs who were also fodder to him.

Also luffy scales to kaido in speed who scales above kata. Your head cannon about Kata’s speed is just wrong. Kaido can speed blizt and one shot kata.

 

[BlackTiger]

@BlackTiger kaido was 80% at the time he was still within full power. Also luffy wasn’t at 100% either he taught against multiple opponents down stairs who were also fodder to him.

Also luffy scales to kaido in speed who scales above kata. Your head cannon about Kata’s speed is just wrong. Kaido can speed blizt and one shot kata.

Yamato said Kaido got weakened so Kaido was less than 50%. Nah Luffy was at 100% after eating meat.

Base Luffy scales to Kaido who cannot outspeed a snail like Big Mom in speed.

You are with the headcannon that base Luffy is faster than Katakuri. Base Luffy is still much slower than WCI Snakeman.

On panels base Luffy was showb to be ragdolled by Katakuri because Katakuri was much faster. AdvCoC won't make Luffy faster. Katakuri will still ragdoll him.

The burden on proof is on you to prove that base Luffy can hit Katakuri with advCoC since advCoC does not make Luffy faster.

Kaido cannot speed blitz Katakuri when he cannot speed blitz base Luffy who Katakuri ragdolled.

Thunder Bagua is also much slower than Buzz Cut Mochi that outpaced Snakeman a form much faster than Boundman.

 

[john ellis]

@BlackTiger actually burden of prove is on the person who makes the statement that goes against the narrative. Luffy is a yonko, kata is yc1. Clearly the yonko wins. G4 luffy stomps kata, g5 luffy low diffs kata. Base luffy beats kata.

Kata actually has a low bounty for a yc1 aswell. Like I don’t understand the hype on him. His bounty is lower then current zoro’s.

 

[BlackTiger]

@BlackTiger actually burden of prove is on the person who makes the statement that goes against the narrative. Luffy is a yonko, kata is yc1. Clearly the yonko wins. G4 luffy stomps kata, g5 luffy low diffs kata. Base luffy beats kata

The burden on proof is on you claiming base Luffy can shit on Katakuri because that means base Luffy can tag Katakuri when WCI showed you base Luffy got ragdolled by Katakuri and advCoC doesn't make Luffy faster.

Katakuri still ragdoll base Luffy whether Luffy uses FS and advCoC or not.

Yonko Luffy is also Gear 5 Luffy not base Luffy with advCoC. Base Luffy with advCoC was weaker than 50% Kaido.

Gear 5 won't stomp Katakuri. Gear 5 got tagged by Kaido who is much slower than Snakeman. Gear 5 without Bajrang Gun cannot hit Katakuri.

Base Luffy cannot beat Katakuri. Base Luffy still cannot hit Katakuri even with advCoC since advCoC doesn't make Luffy faster.

 

[john ellis]

@BlackTiger luffy is a yonko ofc he beats a yc1? Kaido speed splits post WCI g4 luffy in base. Post wano base luffy is stronger than rooftop base luffy who was relative to base kaido. As such base kaido or luffy beats kata. Like I’m being nice and ignoring the fact he’s likely one shot for plot reasons.

 

[BlackTiger]

@BlackTiger luffy is a yonko ofc he beats a yc1? Kaido speed splits post WCI g4 luffy in base. Post wano base luffy is stronger than rooftop base luffy who was relative to base kaido. As such base kaido or luffy beats kata. Like I’m being nice and ignoring the fact he’s likely one shot for plot reasons.

Base Luffy is not yonko level he is weaker than yonko Kaido who was 50% at power.

Kaido with Thunder Bagua speed blitz Boundman.

Katakuri with Buzzcut Mochi speed blitz Snakeman and matched SNakeman fastest attack King CObra.

Katakuri with Buzz Cut Mochi is much faster than Kaido with Thunder Bagua.

Kaido without Thunder Bagua cannot blitz Big Mom who is much slower than Snakeman.

Katakuri without Buzz Cut Mochi is faster than Kaido without Thunder Bagua.

There's no scenario where Kaido is faster than Katakuri.

Like I'm being nice and ignoring the fact that you still cannot prove me how base Luffy can hit Katakuri for your fanfiction advCoC base Luffy shits on Katakuri to be canon.

 

[_goshi]

@BlackTiger luffy is a yonko ofc he beats a yc1? Kaido speed splits post WCI g4 luffy in base. Post wano base luffy is stronger than rooftop base luffy who was relative to base kaido. As such base kaido or luffy beats kata. Like I’m being nice and ignoring the fact he’s likely one shot for plot reasons.

Just press the ignore button. Trust me, it's bliss.

 

[BlackTiger]

Just press the ignore button. Trust me, it's bliss.

Not my fault that I disagree base Luffy shits on Katakuri when WCI shows that Katakuri ragdolled base Luffy due to speed difference and advCoC does not make Luffy faster.

You must have a fragile heart for power scaling about fictional characters disagreement which has no bearing to real life is enough for you to ignore someone.

 

[Crimson Ice]

FS base Luffy with or without advCoC still cannot hit Katakuri and will be his punching bag again just like what happened in WCI. Luffy was fighting Kaido who rarely used Thunder Bagua his fastest attack. He was keeping up with Kaido who kept using his non Thunder Bagua attacks. Even Big Mom who is much slower than Snakeman kept up with non Thunder Bagua Kaido.

1. Kaido is not a slug when he's not using thunder bagua.
2. Luffy avoids a thunder bagua at that start of the rooftop.
3. The base Luffy that fought Kaido is bullying Katakuri.
4. Your post was some bullshit.