One Piece Power Level Discussion Thread

[goldb]

Ground Rules for the Power Level Discussion Thread
​

As always, please follow the guidelines set by the Forum Rules that apply across the board.

It's important that discussions from a current chapter are spoiler tagged until 24h have passed from an english release.

• For the sake of constructive discussion, where and when possible please quote/ source any information you provide. Particularly when it comes to conversations carried over from other threads.
• Avoid passive agressive posts, sly remarks or baiting/trolling. You can certainly have fun or disagree without it being at someone's expense.
• Only use anime examples that are canon and as means to provide clarity to pages in the manga. Any other anime material is otherwise non-canon and should only be referenced if it can be proved that the mangaka had approved it.
• We will strive to avoid repetitive discussions and any extensive battle topics will be guided to the Davy Back fight to existing threads or new ones can be made there.

As of now these topics are shelved due to repetitiveness or until the manga can present us with material to further discussions:

1. Shanks v Mihawk
2. Hand to hand fighters > Swordsmen
3. Zoro > Luffy
4. Zoro v Sanji
5. Is Smoker a top 30 character?
6. Mihawk's rank within the story
7. Law having CoC currently.
8. Katakuri > Kaido/Luffy/Etc.

If you wish to continue any of these discussion and remove it from the list, you will need to provide manga material as proof. If there's also anything you think we've covered numerous times, let me know and I'll update the list.

This is the only warning there'll be regarding these ground rules, anything no adhering will be removed. So please just check your posts before posting them.

 

[Fox666]

It's like saying what's the problem with 1+1=6... it doesn't make sense and is clearly wrong

Powercreep

Besides, you can always excuse Kaido as fighting a gauntlet of opponents. Is it hard to believe that if you switched Luffy with Kizaru against Kaido, Kizaru would win in the end?

 

[john ellis]

@BlackTiger you’re really hard to have discussions with tbh. You need to accept when multiple other people tell you, you’re wrong. That you’re simply wrong. Post udon luffy low to med diffs kata. And ACoC rooftop luffy’s easy low diff’s him

 

[BlackTiger]

@BlackTiger you’re really hard to have discussions with tbh. You need to accept when multiple other people tell you, you’re wrong. That you’re simply wrong. Post udon luffy low to med diffs kata. And ACoC rooftop luffy’s easy low diff’s him

Only Gear 5 and Snakeman Luffy can mid diff Katakuri other form like base/Gear 2/Boundman Luffy even with advCoC gets dogwalked by Katakuri since advCoC doesn't make Luffy attacks faster so with or without advCoC base/Gear 2/Boundman FS Luffy still cannot hit Katakuri and will get dogwalked again and again.

It's very easy to have an argument with me. Just explain how post Udon Luffy>>>pre udon Luffy in every stats and haki ( so base Luffy can blitz Katakuri) but Egghead Luffy cannot be>>>Wano Luffy in every stats and haki (because that means Kizaru>>>Kaido). Unfortunately you cannot explain it. You ran away the moment I asked you this so it's you who refused to have an argument with me because your powerscaling agenda will get debunked so you chose to run away.

It's the opposite it's hard for me to have a discussion with you because you cannot explain why Egghead Luffy cannot be>>>Wano Luffy in every stats and haki (that means Kizaru>>>Kaido) if you think post Udon Luffy>>>pre Udon Luffy in every stats and haki (you want base Luffy to bodybag Katakuri so much don't you you have been pushing this agenda since forever). You cannot explain it so don't expect me to agree with your arguments.

You mean multiple people like you who told me that post Udon Luffy was more durable, faster, had better haki than pre Udon Luffy yet the same people like you told me that Egghead Luffy is as fast, durable, have same haki as Wano Luffy? I cannot argue with double standard people like you my bad since my arguments are consistent and I never nitpick to suit my agenda.

I think you need to accept that if post Udon Luffy>>>pre Udon Luffy in every stats and haki, then Egghead Luffy also>>>Wano Luffy in every stats and haki Kizaru>>>Kaido or you need to accept that your powerscaling is wrong this entire time and there's no powercreep from pre Udon to post Udon (except ap thanks to advCoA and advCoC).

So post Wano Luffy mid diffs Kaido since you said post Udon Luffy>>>pre Udon Luffy in every stats then post Wano Luffy/Egghead Luffy>>>pre Egghead Luffy in stats too.

Kizaru mid diffs Kaido.

In the end you're just a Kaido fanboy who nitpicks in which arc Luffy stats improved significantly and in which arc stats Luffy stats did not improve to suit your Kaido wank.

 

[Core D. Roy]

Kizaru mid diffs Kaido.

I'm glad this was the first thing that caught my eye from that conversation so I know I don't have to even engage with that essay beyond this post. Good lords.

 

[BlackTiger]

I'm glad this was the first thing that caught my eye from that conversation so I know I don't have to even engage with that essay beyond this post. Good lords.

I posted Kizaru>>>Kaido to people who posted post Udon Luffy>>>pre Udon Luffy in every stats and haki since that means Egghead Luffy is also>>>Wano Luffy in every stats and haki so that's not my real powerscaling. Kizaru>>>Kaido is the logic I asked to those who think post Udon Luffy>>>pre Udon Luffy in every stats and haki because if they think like that, Egghead Luffy should be>>>Wano Luffy too in every stats and haki which makes Kizaru>>>Kaido.

It's not hard to read. Don't act like a smartass if you don't know the reason why I posted those arguments.

 

[sulpheed]

admirals > yonkou for sure . 3 of yonkou was taken down now and some people still confuse about the power level between admiral and yonkou ? If the one came to egghead was akainu instead of kizaru , yonkou luffy crew should be dead now . i feel Akainu could be alone take on all of the monsters trio + luffy .

 

[Rein Avara]

I'm glad this was the first thing that caught my eye from that conversation so I know I don't have to even engage with that essay beyond this post. Good lords.

Help me regain my precious brain cells

 

[_goshi]

Help me regain my precious brain cells

The sooner you accept they're gone, the sooner you'll be able to find peace.

 

[Sachsenhesse]

The villain who in order to be defeated by Luffy needed a ancient prophecy to be fulfilled and the help of many other people to stall time and inflict damage.

Vs

One round against luffy "i cant move".

Mid diff for the second isnt really the outcome i would have predicted.

 

[Rein Avara]

The sooner you accept they're gone, the sooner you'll be able to find peace.

You're so right

 

[kkck]

I wonder if kuma can remove his own pain and wounds from his body using his ability. In the flashback he mentions he can remove light sickness/injuries but at thriller bark we saw him remove fairly severe wounds from luffy. If he can do that to himself and, say, pass his wounds and pain onto another then kuma can potentially fight nigh indefinitely. Then again this doesn't exactly fit his character as it has been shown so far and it wouldn't be that strange if the removed pain can't be given to those who actively reject it.

 

[Bandit99]

I wonder if kuma can remove his own pain and wounds from his body using his ability. In the flashback he mentions he can remove light sickness/injuries but at thriller bark we saw him remove fairly severe wounds from luffy. If he can do that to himself and, say, pass his wounds and pain onto another then kuma can potentially fight nigh indefinitely. Then again this doesn't exactly fit his character as it has been shown so far and it wouldn't be that strange if the removed pain can't be given to those who actively reject it.

probably just him getting better at using his powers as he got older

 

[kkck]

probably just him getting better at using his powers as he got older

Not the point of my post at all though.

 

[HereNThere]

I wonder if kuma can remove his own pain and wounds from his body using his ability. In the flashback he mentions he can remove light sickness/injuries but at thriller bark we saw him remove fairly severe wounds from luffy. If he can do that to himself and, say, pass his wounds and pain onto another then kuma can potentially fight nigh indefinitely. Then again this doesn't exactly fit his character as it has been shown so far and it wouldn't be that strange if the removed pain can't be given to those who actively reject it.

Should be feasible given he can remove his own memories and such, so that should be well within his capabilities.

That being said, I don't think the wounds are actually removed, just the concept of pain and suffering. So the underlying injuries would still be there, he just wouldn't be hampered by the sensations. Like, he could lose an arm and transfer the pain of the arm being removed, but he should still be at risk for blood loss and what not.

 

[kkck]

Should be feasible given he can remove his own memories and such, so that should be well within his capabilities.

That being said, I don't think the wounds are actually removed, just the concept of pain and suffering. So the underlying injuries would still be there, he just wouldn't be hampered by the sensations. Like, he could lose an arm and transfer the pain of the arm being removed, but he should still be at risk for blood loss and what not.

Nah, wounds are definitely removed. We saw this when luffy's injuries from thriller bark were transferred to zoro.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 6, 2023, Original Post Date: Nov 6, 2023 ---

Another thing worth noting is that pain and injuries over time return to their source but apparently kuma's memories can remain at eggehead indefinitely.

 

[DeadlyBeast]

I wonder if kuma can remove his own pain and wounds from his body using his ability. In the flashback he mentions he can remove light sickness/injuries but at thriller bark we saw him remove fairly severe wounds from luffy. If he can do that to himself and, say, pass his wounds and pain onto another then kuma can potentially fight nigh indefinitely. Then again this doesn't exactly fit his character as it has been shown so far and it wouldn't be that strange if the removed pain can't be given to those who actively reject it.

I think Kuma is just a good guy with an overpowered ability that he chooses to not use in an evil way. I think even in the past he could remove more from people but as he pointed out it requires that someone absorbs the output or it will seemingly go back to the person (not sure if this is true). I think Kuma in the past avoided doing that since he himself could only handle so much every week.

As for him rejecting this from his own body it should be possible. We already know he could reject his own memories out of his own body so why not injury & pain. The danger here is what happens if no one absorbs that pain/injury/fatigue he rejects from his own body? Could end up being double edged sword that suddenly back fires if it returns to his body during inopportune time. If Kuma was evil he could in theory reject it from his own body and then use the it as a weapon against foes who he forces to absorb it.

I personally don't think Kuma could fight indefinitely using his powers. He can reject things like pain/injury/maybe even fatigue from his body but that to me is different then having stamina. Might be paradoxical like if he was feeling too cold what does rejecting coldness from his own body do? Does it increase his temperature or is all that's gone the negative impacts of being cold at that point in time. I think overall his ability just gives him a lot more durability to allow him to continue fighting longer similar to Ivankov's hormone shots.

Now if Kuma had a bunch of rested people as back up he could maybe reject their rested state and absorb it into himself to gain back stamina. That would be similar to how BM uses souls.

Kuma's ability is pretty interesting and metaphysical so cool to think about how it could be used.

 

[kkck]

I think Kuma is just a good guy with an overpowered ability that he chooses to not use in an evil way. I think even in the past he could remove more from people but as he pointed out it requires that someone absorbs the output or it will seemingly go back to the person (not sure if this is true). I think Kuma in the past avoided doing that since he himself could only handle so much every week.

As for him rejecting this from his own body it should be possible. We already know he could reject his own memories out of his own body so why not injury & pain. The danger here is what happens if no one absorbs that pain/injury/fatigue he rejects from his own body? Could end up being double edged sword that suddenly back fires if it returns to his body during inopportune time. If Kuma was evil he could in theory reject it from his own body and then use the it as a weapon against foes who he forces to absorb it.

I personally don't think Kuma could fight indefinitely using his powers. He can reject things like pain/injury/maybe even fatigue from his body but that to me is different then having stamina. Might be paradoxical like if he was feeling too cold what does rejecting coldness from his own body do? Does it increase his temperature or is all that's gone the negative impacts of being cold at that point in time. I think overall his ability just gives him a lot more durability to allow him to continue fighting longer similar to Ivankov's hormone shots.

Now if Kuma had a bunch of rested people as back up he could maybe reject their rested state and absorb it into himself to gain back stamina. That would be similar to how BM uses souls.

Kuma's ability is pretty interesting and metaphysical so cool to think about how it could be used.

You'd think rejecting fatigue would in practice restore his stamina. And luffy was fine after kuma pushed away all of it, he specifically mentions it and jumps around. Basically we have seen him reject fatigue and the result has been stamina being recovered. The question I pose is whether he can reject his own fatigue and force it upon another before it returns to him. Otherwise he would reject his own fatigue, restore himself and then accumulate more damage while fighting and then get all his damage back as well. Which is probably preferable to dying in a pinch but incredibly dangerous.

 

[Core D. Roy]

I wonder if kuma can remove his own pain and wounds from his body using his ability. In the flashback he mentions he can remove light sickness/injuries but at thriller bark we saw him remove fairly severe wounds from luffy. If he can do that to himself and, say, pass his wounds and pain onto another then kuma can potentially fight nigh indefinitely. Then again this doesn't exactly fit his character as it has been shown so far and it wouldn't be that strange if the removed pain can't be given to those who actively reject it.

He said that the removed pain and sickness would fester and the implication is that it'd just return to the person even worse than before. Unless he's some sort of masochist, the reason he's taking in their pain/sickness is specifically so it won't do that. So when he did that to Luffy, if Luffy *didn't* have a crew with somebody like Zoro or Sanji to take the blow, it'd have just eventually gone back to Luffy and he'd have died anyways.

 

[DeadlyBeast]

You'd think rejecting fatigue would in practice restore his stamina. And luffy was fine after kuma pushed away all of it, he specifically mentions it and jumps around. Basically we have seen him reject fatigue and the result has been stamina being recovered. The question I pose is whether he can reject his own fatigue and force it upon another before it returns to him. Otherwise he would reject his own fatigue, restore himself and then accumulate more damage while fighting and then get all his damage back as well. Which is probably preferable to dying in a pinch but incredibly dangerous.

i guess I don't agree that rejecting fatigue is the same as regaining stamina. Of course Luffy felt better and recovered faster since his injuries,fatigue, etc were rejected. If Kuma rejecting Luffy's fatigue gave him stamina then Luffy would have woken up right there and then at full health. However, despite Kuma's fruit Luffy still ended up having to sleep and rest for many hours (at least a whole night) before waking up.

I do agree Kuma can reject his own fatigue/pain in the same way he did Luffy and that it will extend is combat time (assuming he makes someone else absorb it). But it won't be indefinite since rejecting fatigue is not the one in the same as gaining energy.

Kuma's rejection to me is fundamentally a minus of a condition applied on a character. When something that is rejected (minus) is absorbed into someone else then it becomes a plus operation. In the most recent chapter Kuma implies anything he takes away has to go somewhere so there is already a balancing of the equations concept. Otherwise you open can of worms like can Kuma reject "unaliveness" in a rock to bring it to life? Can Kuma reject "cold" from ice to melt it? Can he reject "hunger" and "sleep" in himself and never sleep or eat again? There has to be reasonable limits to his ability for it to not break the OP universe.

 

[kkck]

He said that the removed pain and sickness would fester and the implication is that it'd just return to the person even worse than before. Unless he's some sort of masochist, the reason he's taking in their pain/sickness is specifically so it won't do that. So when he did that to Luffy, if Luffy *didn't* have a crew with somebody like Zoro or Sanji to take the blow, it'd have just eventually gone back to Luffy and he'd have died anyways.

Yeah, but the point of my post is whether kuma can take out his own pain, fatigue and wounds and pass them onto his enemies. Which would in theory allow him to fight nigh indefinitely.