Spoiler One Piece Spoiler Hints Discussion

kcd

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I think the problème people have is Lucci doesn’t have any feats we know of or have a clear status to indicate strength, like a Marine rank for instance or a victory against a opponent with a clear rank (YC1 or such)…
This leads Zoro fans and haters alike to infer Lucci is weak and be either happy/dissatisfied for the wrong reasons.
IMO another problem is bringing back Lucci, who is old news and a little bland as an opponent, when there are many others to pick from.
Last arc, we were led to believe what separates the strongests from the rest is advanced conquerors haki. You'd think someone who has it wouldn't need help defeating someone who doesn't when they're serious. Seems awfully convenient.

Not really a strong supporter of Zoro, but I do empathize with his fans this time. Seems having advanced coc. isn't the be-all end-all as we thought, lol.
 

Core D. Roy

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It's funny how the only awakened "zoan" with serious stamina issues is Luffy.
The second "awakened" zoans were introduced in Impel Down I knew it was a mistake. One Piece is at its best when the powers are wacky and creative. Having zoan awakenings all be the same exact thing, that can only be used to EXTEND FIGHTS in a manga that already has a huge problem with pacing long fights... just didn't bode well. And now Luffy has the exact opposite problem
Lucci kind of reminds me of Dragon Ball Super Freeza. He has a lot of natural talent and potential, so it actually makes sense to me that him training his body even more over two years is enough to keep him at the level of being a serious threat. I would imagine CP0 is constantly sent on dangerous missions - they even pushed Blackbeard to pull back from Baltigo. They do things like deal with Kaido and spy on Big Mom for the Tea Party. So it makes a lot of sense to me that he's run into missions where he was pushed to his limits and grew, similar to Luffy. He is pretty much a master of Rokushiki, and now has haki, as well as awakening. This means he's able to tank blows with Tekkai, moon-walk with Geppou, use his claws as weapons with Shigan, and Soru for moving extremely fast (which would be further boosted by being a leapord).

I don't really think it's that crazy that someone who was able to get up after going a round with G5 Luffy is able to match Zoro in combat. It's kind of ridiculous how everyone seems to think that indicates Zoro is weak or something. He's the dude who trained with Hawkeyes for two years, and put a scar on Kaido similar to Oden. A lot of his time in the New World has been nothing but him blowing through combatants (even Pica was basically a no-diff win for Zoro).

My biggest annoying with Lucci isn't that he's pushing Zoro, but more that he seems irredeemable. The cover story of CP9 gave them some semblance of hope that they may become good people, but instead, Oda decided to have them join CP0 and reeeeeeaaally lean into being evil fucks who would do things like let Charlos enslave Shirahoshi, or hold Vivi hostage.
Lucci Black shows up randomly at the end of a completely unrelated arc and just demolishes the main villain everyone struggled with. Zoro activated.
 

catagon87

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The second "awakened" zoans were introduced in Impel Down I knew it was a mistake. One Piece is at its best when the powers are wacky and creative. Having zoan awakenings all be the same exact thing, that can only be used to EXTEND FIGHTS in a manga that already has a huge problem with pacing long fights... just didn't bode well. And now Luffy has the exact opposite problem
I wish we'd get some dialogue from Vegapunk about awakening. It's really inconsistent so far. Kaido never did anything to indicate he was "awakened" beyond being really tanky in general, but that's likely just his fruit's innate durability. That said, he immediately recognized when Luffy had awakened, and even cited how awakening an ability is achieved (when your ability and body sync up or whatever). To me it's weird that the "strongest creature" who has been a pirate for nearly 40 years hasn't awakened his ability. The same goes for Big Mom. Then you get Luffy who wasn't even alive when Kaido "beat" Oden, and he awakens his ability. I honestly think Oda made some abilities too innately strong and chooses the best option is to ignore the existence of awakening, and/or be ambiguous about it, in those circumstances.
 

Hannibal Psyche

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I wish we'd get some dialogue from Vegapunk about awakening. It's really inconsistent so far. Kaido never did anything to indicate he was "awakened" beyond being really tanky in general, but that's likely just his fruit's innate durability. That said, he immediately recognized when Luffy had awakened, and even cited how awakening an ability is achieved (when your ability and body sync up or whatever). To me it's weird that the "strongest creature" who has been a pirate for nearly 40 years hasn't awakened his ability. The same goes for Big Mom. Then you get Luffy who wasn't even alive when Kaido "beat" Oden, and he awakens his ability. I honestly think Oda made some abilities too innately strong and chooses the best option is to ignore the existence of awakening, and/or be ambiguous about it, in those circumstances.
I think his final form was his Awakening. Awakening is supposed to be a transformation, I find it hard to believe an Emperor wasn't Awakened.
 

Core D. Roy

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This leads Zoro fans and haters alike to infer Lucci is weak and be either happy/dissatisfied for the wrong reasons.
It's weird because I remember being in the vast minority with Coby predictions too. I had him and Lucci WAY higher than most people (just above what less powerscalers call "YC1") because they're both "keep pace with the protagonist" types of antagonists. It was natural to assume they'd gained in relative power just as much as Luffy had.

Honestly... wtf is Lucci's end game as a character? Barely anybody in OP actually dies, and he's not exactly the kind of traditional "destroy their dreams" villains either. He's just going to keep coming back as long as he keeps a grudge against Luffy.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

I wish we'd get some dialogue from Vegapunk about awakening. It's really inconsistent so far. Kaido never did anything to indicate he was "awakened" beyond being really tanky in general, but that's likely just his fruit's innate durability. That said, he immediately recognized when Luffy had awakened, and even cited how awakening an ability is achieved (when your ability and body sync up or whatever). To me it's weird that the "strongest creature" who has been a pirate for nearly 40 years hasn't awakened his ability. The same goes for Big Mom. Then you get Luffy who wasn't even alive when Kaido "beat" Oden, and he awakens his ability. I honestly think Oda made some abilities too innately strong and chooses the best option is to ignore the existence of awakening, and/or be ambiguous about it, in those circumstances.
My best headcanon for that so far is that Kaidou's different modes near the end of that fight were analogous to Luffy's G4 modes- something like a "partial awakening". His mind/spirit/whatever was never in sync with the devil of the Azure Dragon so it was just impossible for him to achieve awakening based on personality alone, his amount of experience was basically irrelevant. We know from a few examples- especially Luffy and Lucci- that an awakening seems much more natural when the user's personality is more in sync with the zoan devil's. Hell Lucci himself was the first mention of a zoan devil fruit benefiting from having a user whose personality matches (predator with a killer instinct). Which makes Kaku's awakening like twice as funny.
 

DeadlyBeast

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Obedient, but doesn't fully side with them. I understand he only really does what he does to get away with as much bloodshed as legally as possible, so yeah, the only good outcome for him is what blood he can get out of it.
Definitely don't think he personally sides with WG and agree that he does what he does so he has legal excuse for violence. The point for me is that in itself leaves room for Lucci to be an antihero of sorts. Like imagine instead of working for the WG, he worked for the RA as an assassin being sent to take out bad Kings/Queens or other corrupt WG officials. He'd definitely be excessively violent and enjoy the killings but I don't think we'd straight up label him a villain. At least in that scenario I'd think of him as a violent psycho who works for the good guys so he'd be an antihero. Oda has left this type of room for him so post WG downfall I could see him changing allegiances to continue doing what he does now just for someone new, and likely better.
 

Rein Avara

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Side thought, what would one piece look like as a seinen? Any thoughts?
Would you expect any of the main crew (that we know and love) to die or maybe have extra crew members just for the sake of those extras dying?
 

DeadlyBeast

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Side thought, what would one piece look like as a seinen? Any thoughts?
Would you expect any of the main crew (that we know and love) to die or maybe have extra crew members just for the sake of those extras dying?
I think some of the crew would definitely kill enemies like Zoro & Robin def fit that bill. Luffy might in dire circumstances similar to Goku but generally not be a killer. I think Sanji would be an actual player that sleeps around similar to Miroku (maybe Franky & Brook would be too but not sure). Some of the characters like Usopp & Chopper I think would fit the bill for potential deaths. They are non combatants that tend to rely on pure luck to survive extreme circumstances and they don't appear to play a huge narrative role in the end game of the story but would also serve as serious emotional losses if they died. If OP had dragon balls I'd place Usopp, Chopper, Nami in the same category as characters like Krillin, Yamcha, & Tien (all died & resurrected more than once) all of whom had core roles early on but were relegated to essentially side characters with some moments to shine later on.
 

electricmastro

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Refresher on characters Oda has brought back after Wano, but only in flashback so far:

Doflamingo‏‎
Moria‏‎
Smoker‏‎
Issho‏‎
Perona‏‎
Shiki‏‎
Shirahoshi‏‎
Rebecca‏‎
Sai‏‎
Saul‏‎
Weevil‏‎
Leo‏‎
Kong‏‎
 

Qenjin

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Should get a summary within an hour, but from vogue hints, it seems someone will stop the fight this chapter. Not sure if it means all the egghead fights or just zoro and lucci.
 

Rein Avara

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I think some of the crew would definitely kill enemies like Zoro & Robin def fit that bill. Luffy might in dire circumstances similar to Goku but generally not be a killer. I think Sanji would be an actual player that sleeps around similar to Miroku (maybe Franky & Brook would be too but not sure). Some of the characters like Usopp & Chopper I think would fit the bill for potential deaths. They are non combatants that tend to rely on pure luck to survive extreme circumstances and they don't appear to play a huge narrative role in the end game of the story but would also serve as serious emotional losses if they died. If OP had dragon balls I'd place Usopp, Chopper, Nami in the same category as characters like Krillin, Yamcha, & Tien (all died & resurrected more than once) all of whom had core roles early on but were relegated to essentially side characters with some moments to shine later on.
I'd like to think that Luffy's combat style would also be a bit different (not sure exactly what it'd be, but I'd love to see more choreo in his combat), I say that because his current fighting style really suits the element of a goofy pirate Shonen manga.

I think Oda would have to change the Sun God Nika thing in order to fit the genre more.

On the flipside there would also be some story elements that would be difficult to swallow, i.e the darkside of piracy, some of the stuff they were notorious for etc.. and arcs like Alabasta, FMI, Wano and Arlong Park would have more of an emotional impact on the community.
 

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We are talking about Kizaruu here, who is so far the fastest character in the series. If Sanji can match Kizaru speed it means snakeman < sanji in terms of speed.
Dont get me wrong I want sanji to shine, but dont you think its kinda bad writing if Luffy just hard diffed kizaru and now sanji will match him equally?
As of now there is nobody who has shown to be faster than Kuma to date.

Kizaru df is fast af but it’s not like he can’t be tracked
 

Fallou

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Side thought, what would one piece look like as a seinen? Any thoughts?
Would you expect any of the main crew (that we know and love) to die or maybe have extra crew members just for the sake of those extras dying?
First of all Zoro would really kill people instead of slash-knocking them out lol…
I think this manga’s goofiness runs so deep in its adn that it would just not work as a seinen.
It’s funny that we think death makes things more seinenish but when you look at it no good guys in Berserk died after the OG Band of The Hawks…Idk like death usually is something that makes the hero change (either grow up or get revenge or something) and is useless if it’s just « for flavor » imo. The one death that was needed for OP already happened…
And death doesn’t qualify seinen manga per se, more like sex and violence do
 

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Even moving at speed of light or sound speed, Sanji have to use a strong haki to break through Kizaru light corpse, in the moment he need to stop to attack, Kizaru can simply move at light speed and ignore Sanji attack
I think a lot of you guys overestimate kizaru and take the light speed to literal. If kizaru can literally move like you guys are saying or implying he wouldn’t have gotten hit by luffy.. TWICE, would have gotten the mission done etc.

So unless Oda shows us an awakening that’s like wild I don’t see kizaru fight in this blur like a lot of people are trying to say he can.
 

electricmastro

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I get the suspicion Kuma's free will won't be fully brought back.

After going out of his way to show the agony and drama of Kuma sacrificing his free will to save Bonne, to just be then like:

"Oh, it can be brought back? I guess we shouldn't feel so bad anymore."

Would possibly be a big step backwards in the sacrifice Kuma was making as well as the possible progression in Bonney's character.

I dunno, this doesn't even feel comparable to me when Rebecca got her daddy back after he transformed back into a human somehow.
 

catagon87

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I think his final form was his Awakening. Awakening is supposed to be a transformation, I find it hard to believe an Emperor wasn't Awakened.
I want to believe it was an awakening, too. My only hangup with doing so is that Oda has made a huge point of outlining awakening any time it's happened.
Katakuri: "Of course I'm awakened!!!!"
Jinbe/Croc: "OMG, they're awakened zoans!"
Gorosei: "Omg. If this fruit awakens we're going to have to do stuff."
Law/Kidd: "Bro u awakened? Im awakened."
Lucci appears: *AWAKENED LEAPORD MODEL FRUIT FORM!*

He makes so many attempts to highlight awakening as something special, and he didn't pull any punches when it came to increasing the badassery-level of Kaido, so I find it to be a hard pill to swallow that he'd let Kaido being awakened or not be so ambiguous.
 

john ellis

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Yes, but to be invisible the object must not absorb the light,,
Well i m not a physic, just know the basic.
That’s not how light works though plenty of things absorb light, that are “invisible” frankly almost every organic compound absorbs UV light
 

Buggy D. Clown

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So green bull can easily beat kizaru? He just turns on photo synthesis and absorbs kizaru.

I'd like to see their fusion. xD
 

Hannibal Psyche

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I want to believe it was an awakening, too. My only hangup with doing so is that Oda has made a huge point of outlining awakening any time it's happened.
Katakuri: "Of course I'm awakened!!!!"
Jinbe/Croc: "OMG, they're awakened zoans!"
Gorosei: "Omg. If this fruit awakens we're going to have to do stuff."
Law/Kidd: "Bro u awakened? Im awakened."
Lucci appears: *AWAKENED LEAPORD MODEL FRUIT FORM!*

He makes so many attempts to highlight awakening as something special, and he didn't pull any punches when it came to increasing the badassery-level of Kaido, so I find it to be a hard pill to swallow that he'd let Kaido being awakened or not be so ambiguous.
I look at it like Haki, I am not going to question if Mihawk is capable of Haki, I'm just going to assume because he's the strongest.
If you're the strongest, I think you just get the benefit of the doubt.
Kaido is an Emperor, had his DF for 40 years, there's no way he wasn't Awakened.

If Impel Down Zoans are Awakened, I personally won't question Kaido, it just wouldn't make sense.
He could use Future Sight, he could use King's Haki, it just wouldn't make sense if he wasn't Awakened.

Even Marco, we're not told he's Awakened, but why would I doubt someone who has been with Whitebeard and was his right hand man not Awakened? Big Mom isn't mentioned to be either, but again, it wouldn't make sense, these are the strongest.

Oda forgot to mention Kid's DF name, he assumed he'd done so, I'm going to assume there are many things Oda just assumes we'd know or assumes he's mentioned, I personally think he's Awakened even if there was no mentioning, it just wouldn't make sense... these are pretty much the top 10 strongest in the series.
 

Battle Wolf

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I think a lot of you guys overestimate kizaru and take the light speed to literal. If kizaru can literally move like you guys are saying or implying he wouldn’t have gotten hit by luffy.. TWICE, would have gotten the mission done etc.

So unless Oda shows us an awakening that’s like wild I don’t see kizaru fight in this blur like a lot of people are trying to say he can.
Luffy hit with Haki, that's the only explanation why, we see on marineford that he can't be hit by something that won't imbued with Haki
 
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