Theory Parallel Realities

[Huesoman]

Update: I add mangabird linksfor those who use the ARM extension with their browser.

Hi,
what comes next is what I found after re-reading the manga, I hope someone bear out my hypothesis because maybe I’m wrong and if that is the case then it has to be a problem with the translation from Japanese to English, and if the translation is correct then I must be right and it is possible that what we have been reading so far is a story of 2 intertwined realities . This are all the references I found, please read carefully:
Cap 34 pag 28: http://mangafox.me/manga/shingeki_no_kyojin/v08/c034/28.html
mangabird: http://www.mangabird.com/shingeki-no-kyojin-34?page=27
Jean tells Armin:
-And then... you discovered… that there are collosal type titans inside the wall, you said?
Armin replies:
-Yes… they have been standing inside the Wall for at least 100 years.
Comment: As far as I know it is assumed they don’t know if there is just 1 titan or if there are more, that is why Hanjie asks Pastor Nick (cap34 pag 25)
http://mangafox.me/manga/shingeki_no_kyojin/v08/c034/25.html
mangabird: http://www.mangabird.com/shingeki-no-kyojin-34?page=24
-Say Pastor Nick… is the inside of the wall along its whole lenght filled with titans?
Comment: Plus who “discovers” that there is a titan inside the Wall Shina is Mikasa and not Armin, and Mikasa do nothing to correct jean about that…ummm.
Cap 34 pag 31: http://mangafox.me/manga/shingeki_no_kyojin/v08/c034/31.html
mangabird: http://www.mangabird.com/shingeki-no-kyojin-34?page=30
Narrator says:
“on the day of the incident (I guess Annie’s incident)…a meeting to sort out the events of the day was held”
Comment: The above is very important, look who are there, We can recognized Irvin and Hanjie ( in page 29 a scout fellow tells Armin to go to the meeting but you don’t see him there). From that I will sustain my hipothesis of 2 parallel realities, so stay with me:
Same page (31), some high-ranked person asks Irvin:
-I have a few questions regarding the plan you implemented today.
Comment: Again, the day Annie was captured and a titan inside the wall was discovered.
Next page, Irvin says:
-Only those whose innocence could be proven were chosen to participate.
Comment: Armin innocence is proven when tries to help Eren multiple times, same with Mikasa… but Jean? I don’t know why his innocence could be proven, but isn’t relevant for me, maybe in the future.
And here comes the turning point:
cap 34 pag 35: http://mangafox.me/manga/shingeki_no_kyojin/v08/c034/35.html
mangabird: http://www.mangabird.com/shingeki-no-kyojin-34?page=34
someone enters the room and yells: commander Irvin! Wall Rose is…!! Hanjie calls his name: Touma
And narrator says:
“the events described next…took place 2 days before that moment”
Comment: “that moment” has to be the meeting, i.e. after sunset, the same day they capture Annie. So if there isn’t any translation problem, what I will described next, might blow up your mind…so stay with me.
Pag 42:
http://mangafox.me/manga/shingeki_no_kyojin/v08/c034/42.html
mangabird: http://www.mangabird.com/shingeki-no-kyojin-34?page=41
Mike says:
-Touma! Take a fast horse and report this to the commanders! Wall Rose has been breached!
Comment: this “event”, according to the narrator, took place 2 days before the meeting, and I guess happened during the afternoon because Nanaba says:
Cap 35 pag 3: http://mangafox.me/manga/shingeki_no_kyojin/v09/c035/3.html
mangabird: http://www.mangabird.com/shingeki-no-kyojin-35?page=2
-Unfortunately, you’ll (Sasha) have to postpone your midafternoon snacks until you’re finished with your work.
Comment: so it was 2 days before Annie’s capture and in the afternoon. By the way, that quote from Nanaba to Sasha…seems interesting… ummmh…???
Cap 36 pag 2: http://mangafox.me/manga/shingeki_no_kyojin/v09/c036/2.html
mangabird: http://www.mangabird.com/shingeki-no-kyojin-36?page=1
Narrator says:
“having discovered the titans in the southern provinces, the scouting legion immediately dispatched 4 messengers to the major wall owns”
“5 hours after the titans had been discovered”
Comment: 5 hours after titans have been discovered Touma reached Hermiha district. but remembered that this event (titans discovery) took place 2 days prior (25 to 48 hours) to the meeting in Stohess district when Touma enter the room and tells the bad news to Irvin & co. Now, if we look at the map in the same page, we can deduce that the place where mike discovered the titans is at least as far to Hermiha district as Hermiha is to Stohess, so why it took Touma 5 hours to reach Hermiha but 20 to 43 hours to inform Irvin & co about the titan sighting?... the time gap is weird, isn’t it?
Cap 36 pag 3: http://mangafox.me/manga/shingeki_no_kyojin/v09/c036/3.html
mangabird: http://www.mangabird.com/shingeki-no-kyojin-36?page=2
Touma says:
-What we saw was a group of about 10 titans
Comment: What? As far as I know he didn’t see any because he run out quickly after Mike tells him there are titans approaching, that is all, but maybe he saw the group of titans at the distance during his way to Hermiha? Well, that is a possibility, but… I don’t trust this guy Touma...ummm.
Cap 36 pag 5: http://mangafox.me/manga/shingeki_no_kyojin/v09/c036/5.html
mangabird: http://www.mangabird.com/shingeki-no-kyojin-36?page=4
Narrator says:
“3 hours after the titans had been discovered”
Comment: North squad is near Sasha’s town.
Cap 37 pag 1: http://mangafox.me/manga/shingeki_no_kyojin/v09/c037/1.html
mangabird: http://www.mangabird.com/shingeki-no-kyojin-37
Narrator says:
“20 hours after the titan sighting”
Comment: I guess “titan sighting” is the same as “titans had been discovered”, I see no reason for the opposite.
Cap 37 pag 2: http://mangafox.me/manga/shingeki_no_kyojin/v09/c037/2.html
mangabird: http://www.mangabird.com/shingeki-no-kyojin-37?page=1
Well, the chapter name is “to the southwest”, that means from Stohess (or some place near it) to the place where it is supposed to be titans inside Wall Rose, as seen in this page. We see Hanjie, Armin, Mikasa, Eren, Rivaille and Pastor Nick. But the important thing is what Armin says:
-Wall Rose got breached all of a sudden…even if we managed to deliver Eren to the frontlines, I doubt it will change anything anymore…
Comment: This is extremely important, how do they know Wall Rose is breached 20 hours after the titan sighting, if Touma broke the news 25 to 48 hours after the titans sighting?! It make no sense!!!, there is again a time gap, same when Touma arrived to Hermiha in 5 hours but it took him 20 to 43 hours to deliver the news to Irvin! And there is more! Hanjie was in the room when Touma arrived and broke the news! wut?! Hehehe, this is where it gets interesting . I think there are 2 possibilities: one, there are 2 parallel realities, with a delay in time or with the same event happening at different occasions; and two, Touma broke another news, I mean, there is a second breach in Wall Rose, about 2 days after the first one that wasn’t a truly breach (ape titan didn’t breach Wall Rose the first time, he just climbed the wall and then transform humans into titans). What do you think? Parallel universe or second breach?... lets continue.
Cap 37 pag 8: http://mangafox.me/manga/shingeki_no_kyojin/v09/c037/8.html
mangabird: http://www.mangabird.com/shingeki-no-kyojin-37?page=7
Mikasa says:
-So it’s really…just like Armin said
Comment: lets go back to chapter 34 pag 28, whe can read that Armin said this:
http://mangafox.me/manga/shingeki_no_kyojin/v08/c034/28.html
mangabird: http://www.mangabird.com/shingeki-no-kyojin-34?page=27
-I wonder if it was made by using the titans’ hardening ability
So Mikasa is right, …just...as...Armin…said…Buuuuuuuuuuuuut, there is a tiny problem: Armin said such a thing after they captured Annie, that is the same day of the meeting where Touma broke the news about the breach of Wall Rose, so Mikasa and the others are going to southwest 20 hours after the titans sighting but 5 to 28 hours before Touma broke the news. If 2 days mean exactly 48 hours then, according to Mikasa, Armin said it before the meeting, but the meeting happened the same day of the incident, I mean when Annie climbed the wall, got captured and Mikasa find the titan inside the wall. So, how could Armin say what he said before the day of the incident? It, again, makes no sense. If 2 days mean >24 hours but <48 hours then what Armin said could make sense. But this isn’t all, lets continue.
Cap 37 pag 18: http://mangafox.me/manga/shingeki_no_kyojin/v09/c037/18.html
mangabird: http://www.mangabird.com/shingeki-no-kyojin-37?page=17
Hanjie says:
-the Hermiha district. We’re almost there.
Comment: I bring this up to emphasize that they are heading from Wall Shina, Stohess district or near it, to southwest, to the assumed breach location.
And Rivaille says:
-…you’re the members of the impromptu squad chosen by Irvin
Comment: this means Irvin knew about the breach at least 20 hours after the titans sighting, again, makes no sense since touma broke the news 25 to 48 hours after the supposed breach. This has to be another reality my friends... a parallel one.
Now I just gonna leave other links where narrator says how much time has passed:
Cap 37 pag 31: http://mangafox.me/manga/shingeki_no_kyojin/v09/c037/31.html
mangabird: http://www.mangabird.com/shingeki-no-kyojin-37?page=30
Narrator says:
“3 hours after the titan sighting”
Comment: West squad is near Wall Rose.
Cap 37 pag 38: http://mangafox.me/manga/shingeki_no_kyojin/v09/c037/38.html
mangabird: http://www.mangabird.com/shingeki-no-kyojin-37?page=37
Narrator says:
“5 hours after the titan sighting”
Comment: South squad is near Connie’s town.
Cap 38 pag 9: http://mangafox.me/manga/shingeki_no_kyojin/v09/c038/9.html
mangabird: http://www.mangabird.com/shingeki-no-kyojin-38?page=8
“5 hours after the titan sighting”
Comment: Stationary troops at the eastern line of defence.
Cap 38 pag 13: http://mangafox.me/manga/shingeki_no_kyojin/v09/c038/13.html
mangabird: http://www.mangabird.com/shingeki-no-kyojin-38?page=12
“6 hours after the titan sighting”
Comment: Other stationary troops near wall Rose.
Cap 38 pag 14: http://mangafox.me/manga/shingeki_no_kyojin/v09/c038/14.html
mangabird: http://www.mangabird.com/shingeki-no-kyojin-38?page=13
“9 hours after the titan sighting”
Comment: South squad meets west squad near to castle utgard.
Cap 38 pag 43: http://mangafox.me/manga/shingeki_no_kyojin/v09/c038/43.html
mangabird: http://www.mangabird.com/shingeki-no-kyojin-38?page=42
“18 hours after the titan sighting”
Comment: Hanjie & co are at … I don’t know but are heading to Castle Utgard. Now this is very weird, if we remembered correctly Hanjie & co arrived to Hermiha district at least 20 hours after the titan sighting, but now 18 hours after the titan sighting they are heading to Castle Utgard, in such case one could assume that they already left Hermiha but we don’t where they really are, so… lets continue.
Cap 40 pag 2: http://mangafox.me/manga/shingeki_no_kyojin/v10/c040/2.html
mangabird: http://www.mangabird.com/shingeki-no-kyojin-40?page=1
“20 hours after the titan sighting”
Comment: Ape titan left Wall Rose and Castle Utgard is being attacked by a swarm of titans. Some time later Hanjie & co arrived and save Ymir and the rest.

So, I know it is too long but I think it is worth reading. I couldn't elaborate more this theory about parallel realities but I think I presented enough evidence about time inconsistencies, it could be a time loop but I disregard that possibility, just don't remember why...

your thoughts?

 

[Kaiten]

Alternate realties sounds more like Steins;Gate than Shingeki

 

[Huesoman]

Alternate realties sounds more like Steins;Gate than Shingeki

Thanks for the answer, well, I didn't read Steins;Gate but I would like to know what do you think of instead, what it could be if not alternate realities?

---------- Post added July 20, 2013 at 05:51 PM ---------- Previous post was July 19, 2013 at 05:19 PM ----------

I think the links below could be considered as another evidence of alternate realities?:
Look at the ground where Eren and Armin stand, it is like a small hole, while Mikasa stands above of them.
Cap 1 pag 53: http://mangafox.me/manga/shingeki_no_kyojin/v01/c001/53.html
Cap 43 pag 33: http://mangafox.me/manga/shingeki_no_kyojin/v11/c043/33.html

Now look at the same image but from other chapter, they are all at the same level:
Cap 9.5 pag 11: http://mangafox.me/manga/shingeki_no_kyojin/v03/c009.5/11.html

well, maybe it is just a mistake from the mangaka? On the other hand, Cap 1 and Cap 43 seem rightfully depicted despite the time span between chapters... so what are your thoughts?

 

[teioh]

About the first hypothesis: in Japanese Titan is 巨人 and Titans is the same 巨人 cuz there isn't difference from singular to plural.
Then Armin phrase can be translated in the same way independent by the Titan/s in the wall stuff.

 

[Huesoman]

Good tip, so when narrator says: "titan sighting", there is a good chance the correct translation is "titans sighting", so it would be the equivalent to the other thing he says: "titans had been discovered". But there is still the problem with the hours, Touma broke the news at least 25 hours after the titans sighting, but you can see Eren & co moving toward the wall breach after 20 hours; unless there is a mistake with the translation I can't see a proper explanation besides parallel realities, maybe a second breach or a time loop, but there is something weird. Thanks for the reply btw.

 

[teioh]

It's sad and probably stupid by me but it can be an author error too. But if possible probably he would correct before the second printing in tankobon format then I frankly don't know.
Your hypothesis is a bit complicated to verify, cuz you linked a lot of page, when I will have time I'll do it.

 

[Knifeshade]

'Scuse my ignorance, but I have no idea what you are trying to present? I didn't quite catch what your main point was.

If you're referring to the timeline thing, like how they mentioned Wall Rose was breached and did the flashback and present time thing, isn't that just a matter of presentation....

 

[Huesoman]

'Scuse my ignorance, but I have no idea what you are trying to present? I didn't quite catch what your main point was.

If you're referring to the timeline thing, like how they mentioned Wall Rose was breached and did the flashback and present time thing, isn't that just a matter of presentation....

Thank god you asked . My point is very simple, let me summarize it:
The same day the scouting legion caught Annie, a meeting was held. In the middle of the meeting Touma enters the room and says: -commander Irvin! Wall Rose is…!! Then the narratot says: -“the events described next…took place 2 days before that moment”. 2 days equivalent is 48 hours (at most) or 25 hours (at least). The "events described next" start when Mike detects the titans, this is called "titans sighting" or "titans had been discovered" by the narrator. The thing is, in chapter 37 pag 2 (20 hours after the titans sighting) Armin says: -"Wall Rose got breached all of a sudden…even if we managed to deliver Eren to the frontlines, I doubt it will change anything anymore…". But we know Touma broke the news at least 25 hours since the titans sighting, so it is like Armin & co went towards the breach before they knew there was a breach in wall Rose. That is basically the whole point, the rest are more evidence in other chapters and pages to sustain that this isn't a mistake from the mangaka. Other hipothesis could be a second breach, a time loop or even a mistake during translation. Well, thanks for the reply. If ou have doubst comment below because for me this is one of the most interesting things about the manga abd I would love to talk about it.

---------- Post added at 11:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:38 PM ----------

It's sad and probably stupid by me but it can be an author error too. But if possible probably he would correct before the second printing in tankobon format then I frankly don't know.
Your hypothesis is a bit complicated to verify, cuz you linked a lot of page, when I will have time I'll do it.

Yes, I think I complicated it. but above you can read a reply to another member where I summarize it, please check it.

 

[teioh]

Checked. Dunno why only me and the other guy answer you.

However the better way to explain this is by reading a japanese version of that chapter(s) and check if the hours are the same.
If not probably Isayama get wrong.

 

[Huesoman]

If it is a translation error, then it could be errors with the words: hour, day, before or after. I don't think there is a problem with the numbers because when I saw an original (raw) the numbers used were the same (I mean arabic numerals), and I can't imagine a translation error with those (unless they forgot a 0, for example 2 instead of 20, etc). It could be a mistake from the mangaka but I don't want to believe it , when I re-read the manga I felt like if him left a lot of clues many chapters before things came to light, and many chapters mean many months; it is like he is very ahead from the story told so far, I mean he does not look like a sloppy author. Now that I think of it, there are more clues about time, things like "to you in 2000 years", "why I am remembering this now from all times", "and I die", "do you really think this world has a future", etc.

 

[YipYip]

Well I didnt re-read the chapters now... maybe i will tomorrow but:

What if "titans sighting" and "titans had been discovered" doesnt mean the same matter.
As someone wrote before, there is no plural in japanese, so...
maybe "titans sighting" meanse the titans in the southeast
and "titan(s) had been discovered" means the giant titan in the wall...

So Armin and the others were dispatched from Innerring 20 hours after the giant titan had been discoverd in the wall

hmm well if we put it like that I guess the translators just got confused with all sightings and discoverys over the months the chapters came out...


But well time really seems to be a big deal in this manga
though I dont hope it will evolve to a "2 dimensions"-Adventure :/

 

[Huesoman]

That is a very good point, but in cap 36 pag 2 (http://mangafox.me/manga/shingeki_no_kyojin/v09/c036/2.html) the narrator says:
“having discovered the titans in the southern provinces, the scouting legion immediately dispatched 4 messengers to the major wall owns”
“5 hours after the titans had been discovered”
All of it in the same page, so I have to think "titans had been discovered" relates to the titans in the southern provincies; unless the mangaka wants to toy with nitpicking fans like me . But there are also other narrator quotes:
“5 hours after the titans had been discovered”: Touma arrived to Hermiha
“3 hours after the titans had been discovered”: North squad is near Sasha’s town.
“5 hours after the titan sighting”: South squad is near Connie’s town.
“3 hours after the titan sighting”: West squad is near Wall Rose.
What I want to show with the quotes above is that Mike split people into 4 squads:
http://mangafox.me/manga/shingeki_no_kyojin/v09/c035/13.html
http://mangafox.me/manga/shingeki_no_kyojin/v09/c035/14.html
those squads are: north, south, west and east; so it makes sense when every squad reach their destination after almost the same amount of time (3 to 5 hours), in other words, "titan(s) had been discovered" and "titan(s) sighting" are probably the same. I didn't count the titan in the wall as another discovery, but if the translators messed up then there are good chances you are right. Well, thanks for the reply, I forgot that possibility (even when my brother mentioned it days ago) but it could be a likely event.

P.S: I think it could be a time thing rather than a 2-realities thing. I read about the time loop theory, it could be a possibility, but I don't know why it has to be a "loop".

 

[ImmortalZodd]

Well, author did at least one mistake so far with the Hannes uniform having wings of liberty instead of garrison's roses in chapter 42.

And, wow. Check out chapter 46. Reiner said that "ever since yesterday afternoon, when the titans showed up..."
http://mangafox.me/manga/shingeki_no_kyojin/v11/c046/20.html
That means that there is no way 2 days could have passed before they got the word about the breach since everyone is already in pursuit of Reiner and Berth.

While checking all the events, I thought it could be a possibility that the "took place 2 days before that moment" was an author error, since that was the only thing that didn't match. But then there are events 18 and 20 hours after titans sighting that are also very weird.
http://mangafox.me/manga/shingeki_no_kyojin/v09/c037/1.html
http://mangafox.me/manga/shingeki_no_kyojin/v09/c038/43.html

Why would the author show Hanji and company 20 hours after in a cart just arriving in Hermina district, and in the next chapter show us Hanji again on horses heading for Utgard 18 hours after sighting. Makes no freaking sense :/

Also, this page has an odd panel that reminded me of this thread
http://mangafox.me/manga/shingeki_no_kyojin/v08/c033/12.html
Third panel, Mikasa's face. It's...doubled?

Or, maybe
http://mangafox.me/manga/shingeki_no_kyojin/v08/c034/35.html
was after they rescued Eren from Reiner and Berth? It's a long shot, but hey, every theory in this manga is.

Offtopic, how did Levi get hurt again? He kicked Mikasa out of the way when fighting Annie, and then went for her jaw muscles, but what was the exact moment that he got hurt?

 

[Huesoman]

snip

Hey man, thanks very much for your reply. I didn't realize the hannes "wings" , hehehe. Wow, that quote from Reyner escaped my sight; so since titans sighting until the present moment (manga time) there has been just 1 day, nice find . Yes, I think the "2 days ..." quote could be a mistake, but in that case a mistake from Isayama and not from translators because japanese use the same numbers as us (arabic numbers). Yes, the "18 hours after..." and the "20 hours after..." are very weird but if its true they are heading to Utgard we don't know where they actually are, so it could be they are going to the "carriage station" () before heading to Hermiha before heading to Utgard (the final destination) but to be honest it feels very weird so... and with this we have already 2 mistakes from Isayama, both related to the same thing (time inconsistency), and I refuse to think Isayama could made such big mistakes .
Wow (again) I didn't notice that double head, I really don't know what to think, it could be a lapse or maybe there is a problem with Mikasa's memories I don't know to be honest, but good find.
Yes, it could be after Eren's rescue, that is the second breach hipothesis and seems legit.
I thought the same thing about Levi, people say he hurts his arm but I didn't see any picture of him with any signal of an wounded arm, let me quote myself from other post:
"...BTW, why people think he injured his arm? I didn't see any pag where he shows the bandaged arm, plus his right arm looks fine here:
http://mangafox.me/manga/shingeki_no...09/c037/6.html
and his left arm looks fine here:
http://mangafox.me/manga/shingeki_no...9/c037/23.html
and both look fine here:
http://mangafox.me/manga/shingeki_no...8/c032/21.html
cap30 pag26 he is supposed to be injured, but in the image I just can imagine his leg being injured, not the arms:
http://mangafox.me/manga/shingeki_no...7/c030/26.html
and finally, same chapter, next pages, when he fought the female type titan, it looks like his arms were fine because after helping mikasa he use both of them to cut the female type. Unless, of course, he hurts his arm in...a parallel reality ."

To finish, I think we have to wait 2 days (in manga time) to find if there is a second breach or something. Now, if it means a second breach then the "incident" that happen "the same day" as the "meeting" has to be other instead of Annie's capture, but what? it could not be the discover of R&B true identities because it happen 1 day before the meeting, maybe they managed to capture Berthold? and as Annie's capture it brings the ape titan to breach wall rose? Or as you said it could be Eren's rescue? but in that case it has to be a day after his capture to avoid inconsistencies. The beauty of all this is that we can speculate a lot of things, and we are less than a week to have more clues for this puzzle .

 

[Beatrice]

Could it be that Utgard Events just took place before/during the Annie Events?
I mean, hence the following:

Mike, a deeply trusted soldier of Irvin, number 2 Soldier is absent from the meeting.
The Graduates at Utgard are:
Reiner
Bertholdt
Connie
Sasha
Christa
Ymir

Absent:
Mikasa
Eren
Jean
Armin

Those 4 were all in the Human Settlement when the Events with Annie occured.

 

[Huesoman]

Could it be that Utgard Events just took place before/during the Annie Events?...

Yes, that is what it is supposed to be, that is why the narrator says: “the events described next…took place 2 days before that moment”, that moment being the meeting (same day of Annie's capture implied). The problem is the 4 absent you mentioned (plus Hanjie) are heading to the wall breach 1 day before Touma broke the news about the breach (at the meerting where Hanjie was). So you can see a time inconsistency right there plus other issues I explained in my previous posts. I just read chapter 48 and still nothing new that could bring some light to this matter, maybe next chapter but I doubt it, I think we are going to get a new piece for the puzzle in chapter 52 or later.

P.S: BTW, the not absent graduates you mentioned aren't at Utgard, some hours later after the titans sighting all of them (except Sasha) headed to Utgard, that is true.