Discussion Pitou vs Netero

Demonspeed

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Meruem tactic was not recklessly at all.
Atacking Netero thousand of times in a short amount of time was just to show the unconscious preference for his attack pattern.
This was a genius move by Meruem and the ONLY way he could reach Netero at some point. You can't just react to that speed.
Pitou being as tanky as Meruem is not even possible..
Also we can't consider Pitou's heal IMO, she needs a lot of time and here she isn't even taking a breath between atacks.. : |

On another note Netero would just demolish adult gon, he doesn't have the speed and the tank abilities neither.
Netero sounds just a common nen user in your words, and he is BY FAR the best we have seen in terms of humans.
To attack continuously is reckless to me, at least it's not a prudent way of fighting and I didn't say Pitou would react to HK's moves. I said that Netero has nothing to kill her and that he would make a mistake sooner or later. Pitou is a tank even though Meruem is more durable.

To heal herself she just have to go away and use her ability, also Netero would have to use an attack powerful enough to damage her this much first. She healed her own broken arm in a few seconds, Netero's palm attacks are not powerful enough for this. She is faster than Netero, he only outspeeds her with his prayers, to run away to heal herself and come back should not be complicated, it's not like Netero can strike her in the same place infinitely, if he could he would have beaten Meruem.

No way Netero can beat Adult Gon, here too Netero has only speed, even considering that Adult Gon is not as durable as the RGs, he has Gyo and Ren for defense, Netero's aura donesn't compare to his. He could just use Paper and Netero would die.

Netero is not common but it's not like the RGs are common either. His attacks are not powerful enough to kill them.

Zero hand deal continous damage , this is not a direct hit like adult gon.


very much this. I have a solid theory around is healing ablity (not blythe only) and is terpsichora but i'm lazy now.
That attack?

Continuous or not it's not more powerful than Adult's Gon Rock.
 

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Yes this attack.
And yes adult gon's rock deal more damage.
 

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Paper is not even developed...
He doesn't have a way to counter/react HK
He doesn't have the durability (pitou cut his arm like nothing, he's still a mere human)
Yes he grew in raw power, and got more aura than anyone, but that doesn't win you the fight if you can't reach your opponent even once.

ONT: I just don't see Pitou reaching Netero, but we can argue the result because of her tankyness/Netero stamina.
 
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Demonspeed

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Paper is not even developed...
He doesn't have a way to counter/react HK
He doesn't have the durability (pitou cut his arm like nothing, he's still a mere human)
Yes he grew in raw power, and got more aura than anyone, but that doesn't win you the fight if you can't reach your opponent even once.

ONT: I just don't see Pitou reaching Netero, but we can argue the result because of her tankyness/Netero stamina.
The last time he used Paper against Owl and Bat combo it was developed.

The Pitou who sliced Gon's arm was a zombie Pitou, it is a considerable power up. How could Netero reach him and not Gon? Emission are long range attacks, unless Netero uses Zero he has no attacks at long range.

I don't see Pitou reaching Netero as well in normal conditions but Netero has nothing to kill her. He will undoubtedly make a mistake over time and Pitou won't miss that chance.
 

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^ so you're basically saying Pitou would've eventually beat Komugi at Gungi.... false. It was made very clear that Meruem only got through Netero's attacks because of Meruems incredible knowledge boost via patterns and combinations. It's ridiculous to say that Pitou would've eventually gotten through like Meruem did.
 

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Demonspeed

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^ so you're basically saying Pitou would've eventually beat Komugi at Gungi.... false. It was made very clear that Meruem only got through Netero's attacks because of Meruems incredible knowledge boost via patterns and combinations. It's ridiculous to say that Pitou would've eventually gotten through like Meruem did.
Huh? in what Gungi and a Nen battle are so similar? Are you saying that you can't hit Netero unless you are good at Gungi?

Pitou will reach him because Netero will get more tired overtime, his palms are not powerful enough to kill her or give injure her significantly, Zero Hand is weaker than Gon's Rock and by using it he would end up unable to fight.

If he even manages to beat Pitou, she will come back again and with a power up. Instead of saying that Pitou will never reach him, why not tell me how could Netero win this?
 

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^ so you're basically saying Pitou would've eventually beat Komugi at Gungi.... false. It was made very clear that Meruem only got through Netero's attacks because of Meruems incredible knowledge boost via patterns and combinations. It's ridiculous to say that Pitou would've eventually gotten through like Meruem did.
Correct me if I'm wrong. Netero stated that there are people stronger than him right? Would it be implied that to be Netero you have to be good at Gungi? No. That's just absurd. Yea the king used it to basically force Netero's hand until he learned his rhyme and beat him at his own game. But if Netero himself knows there are other hunters (His son probably being one of them) that can get through his defense, there has to be another way. Not all the hunter's are as fast as Meruem or as cunning (Post rose meruem was probably the strongest at his point before poison set in). And out pacing a defense isn't the only way to get by it. Saying Pitou can't beat meruem because she doesn't play gungi is invalid, unless that's a prerequisite that everyone that netero titled as stronger than him filled. As far as tactics are concerned there's also the fact that people are forgetting about Pitou's non-pain feeling puppets she could cordinate attacks with until she learns what she has to about Netero's attack. And she has more 'raw' speed than netero, his only motion that is significantly faster than the rest of the ants is the prayer motion. So healing while damage dealing wouldn't be impossible for her.
 

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To be honest I can't imagine netero not being the strongest human nen user in the world. He did say he wasn't anymore however we have every reason to believe netero's type of person can be described as "FILTHY LIAR WHO DOES NOT GIVE A CRAP". Seriously, he was a liar. Disagreeable. Overall goddamned nasty. In a real world context he would be what we call an insane evil asshole (well, maybe not evil but definitely an asshole). The zodiacs cared for him but even they think the chairman was an asshole. They made the point beyond was like netero however even then it was when beyond was basically being a douchebag to the entire world (at least that case can be made). Netero said that novu and morel were stronger than him however based on what we saw that was a huge lie. Novu in the end could not even stand next to a royal guard without loosing his mind. Netero referred to pitou as a little ant. He pushed pitou back like if it was nothing.

There are many nen users around and we have actually seen quite a few that can be called high level. But have we ever seen anything that could actually even vaguely approach what netero did in terms of speed, strength, stamina, power or anything? The case can be made that hisoka, some of the zodiacs, a few ryodan, ging, the zoldicks and perhaps a few others are objectively the strongest nen users we have seen. Well, that should actually cover everything. Which of them has ever given even the slightest indication that they would last against netero more than it takes netero to punch once? Which of them is a physical match to netero's sheer raw power? Or his sheer speed? Even zeno admitted that netero was always much stronger than him which is quite something. Netero can be surprised with weird nen or something as much as anyone else but an actual match in actual combat? From a human? No one we have even seen seems to have been alive enough to reach netero's level. Netero before his insane training was a high level nen user as far as the manga told us, someone who could be considered to be comparable to the people I mentioned earlier. And from that point he got to the point where he could throw the 10000 punches in a hour when at first it took him over 12 or even a day. Its an insane amount of speed and power. I would think that most of the high level nen users we have seen have not even been alive for enough time to be able to submit themselves to a training that would allow them to match netero.
 

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Long post...
You're right, he's such a troll..
He even said that moreau and knov where at the same level than him. Wich is completely false.
 

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Correct me if I'm wrong. Netero stated that there are people stronger than him right?
Can you (or someone) find me the exact quote you are referencing. You can't be talking about that time he said that Knov and Morel had surpassed him in his old age, because if that is the quote you're referencing. . . well I shouldn't have to explain why that is bunk.

Would it be implied that to be Netero you have to be good at Gungi? No. That's just absurd.
The point being made is that 1) the only reason Meruem was able to bypass Netero's ability and score a hit was because of his incredible ability for pattern recognition and sussing out points of weakness in a complex pattern, with the assumption that 2) Meruem was only able to reach that level of ability through the growth we witnessed him experience in and from his Gungi matches with Komugi.

Outside of a ranged attack, or having speed that surpasses Meruem's, or some ability to bypass his defense without physically moving ones body through Netero's area of attack, what other way is there for someone to approach Netero?

It seems to me that the fight with Pitou would be much the same as the fight with Meruem, except Pitou hasn't shown any reason as to why he'd be able to bypass his (as the Narrator practically put it) as-close-to-perfect-as-possible defense (also: to whoever said it, being a brain surgeon and high-level strategy and pattern-recognition = not the same skills bruh).

Now, Netero's normal attacks aren't as strong as Gon's Jajanken, but can we really say that about Zero Hand? This is an attack that costs him his entire aura - its roughly equivalent in cost to Gon's transformation. I doubt it is weaker than Gon's jajanken. It banged up Meruem pretty good without giving him any major injuries - Gon's grownup Jajanken destroyed Pitou's face. I think that can be accounted for by the difference in each's defense/exoskeleton.

Though, considering Neferpitou survived a single hit from a full grown Gon's Jajanken, I wouldn't be surprised if she survived (though very badly injured) a Zero Hand. I could go either way on that.

Either way though, Pitou couldn't touch Netero, though Netero would have to go Zero Hand to even hope of defeating her.
 

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Can you (or someone) find me the exact quote you are referencing. You can't be talking about that time he said that Knov and Morel had surpassed him in his old age, because if that is the quote you're referencing. . . well I shouldn't have to explain why that is bunk.
Even just in general, he made this quote in passing and then joked about even Knov and Morel being stronger. But we all know that he USED to be the strongest Nen practitioner in the world during his prime, that title probably belongs to his son, or someone on the Zodiacs.

The point being made is that 1) the only reason Meruem was able to bypass Netero's ability and score a hit was because of his incredible ability for pattern recognition and sussing out points of weakness in a complex pattern, with the assumption that 2) Meruem was only able to reach that level of ability through the growth we witnessed him experience in and from his Gungi matches with Komugi.
I argue that if push came to shove, Meruem would've been able to find his way through Netero's defenses, rather than around. He was having 'fun' begging Netero not to run out of energy at one point in the fight, because he wanted to see how far he could push Netero before he could figure out his rhythm and make him expose all his moves. Meruem was 'playing' around more than really fighting. Literally, in the beginning of the fight when caught OFF GUARD, The announcer said that to Meruem the fury of Netero's hits was equal to a child throwing a tantrum. If Meruem felt that way about the brute force of the attacks then it's no far toss to say that he'd naturally be able to do better.

Outside of a ranged attack, or having speed that surpasses Meruem's, or some ability to bypass his defense without physically moving ones body through Netero's area of attack, what other way is there for someone to approach Netero?

It seems to me that the fight with Pitou would be much the same as the fight with Meruem, except Pitou hasn't shown any reason as to why he'd be able to bypass his (as the Narrator practically put it) as-close-to-perfect-as-possible defense (also: to whoever said it, being a brain surgeon and high-level strategy and pattern-recognition = not the same skills bruh).

Now, Netero's normal attacks aren't as strong as Gon's Jajanken, but can we really say that about Zero Hand? This is an attack that costs him his entire aura - its roughly equivalent in cost to Gon's transformation. I doubt it is weaker than Gon's jajanken. It banged up Meruem pretty good without giving him any major injuries - Gon's grownup Jajanken destroyed Pitou's face. I think that can be accounted for by the difference in each's defense/exoskeleton.

Though, considering Neferpitou survived a single hit from a full grown Gon's Jajanken, I wouldn't be surprised if she survived (though very badly injured) a Zero Hand. I could go either way on that.

Either way though, Pitou couldn't touch Netero, though Netero would have to go Zero Hand to even hope of defeating her.
One, Pitou's puppets. Distractions ready and able to join the fight, if she took a pure controller role and used her En on the battle field to give her puppets the insight and reaction timing to avoid Netero's attacks as much as possible, she could easily wear him down. (seeing how the puppets could fight even after receiving nasty wounds). Secondly if an opening came up because of the puppets then she'd capitalize. And we know that as Netero blows through the puppets the rest of them would move quicker and more fluid because less objects to control for Pitou. The puppeteer hatsu makes targeted objects move at speeds fast enough to even catch Gon off guard (Aka when she used it on herself, at the point being a dead body driven by Nen). Even if they aren't as physically capable as her, the speeds they would achieve via the Puppeteer would be nothing to sneeze at.

And about the Gon rock vs Zero hand comparasion? I don't think it really applies. Rock is explosive force over a small area of contact (the fist) rest of energy just drives the impact. Zero hand is more like a tidal wave of energy, certainly powerful, but not nearly as destructive, just because the surface area of the attack is so great. Gon's attack = explosive + focused > Spread + continous. Meruem wouldn't be so chipper after an Adult gon's rock to the face either, i promise you.

And the point about Brain surgery wasn't to say she's a God level strategist. It was simply to say she has a quick learning curve, because who learns brain surgery on the fly?... no one. If she opened the fight with puppets and got a feel for Netero's rhyme, she'd use her mixture of raw instinct, remaining puppets and the Puppeteer imposed on herself to drive Netero into a corner. I mean she moves fast enough to catch Gon off guard. GON the guy who clearly has the instincts of an animal for the whole series, who could somehow sense Komugi's life force and tell Pitou was bluffing about the heal time in the first place. And if we place Adult Gon easily 4x stronger than Current Netero. Her speed under puppeteer would be blinding to him. Under her self imposed Hatsu she'd be at least as fast as Meruem pre-rose.
 
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dzsovani

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I want to give the win to Netero but I'm not sure because the Chimera Ants were a better specie than the humans so even if Netero trained through a life maybe he wouldn't stand a chance against Neferpitou.
 

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Thats easy to say and in regards to ants vs humans that is generally true but what exactly can pitou ever do to netero? Pitou lacks the speed to avoid cannon, the strength to break cannon (assuming there is an amount of strength that can do that) and the intelligence to come up with a plan. His nen is extremely inadequate for the task too considering it is meant for close range combat. If pitou had a long range technique he might have a chance but that is not the case at all here. There are not weaknesses that netero has that pitou can exploit. It took meruem and his countless hours playing komugi for him to have the sheer skill to predict netero's moves. Pitou does not have to do just that to win but the manga has not presented other alternatives to him. His best chance would be that after netero kills him terpsicora catches netero off guard however even that seems improbable considering netero's overwhelming speed advantage. Pitou is the worst ant to face netero, his skillset is terrible for it. Yupi and Pufu would have a better chance considering their weird bodies and ranged techniques.
 

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Pitou loses. I doubt if she can survive the 99th hand and if she does then its zero hand gg.
 

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Netero has a vast amount of experience. I find it plausible that upon ascertaining the strength of Pitou, he made sure during his training that he would be at least stronger than Pitou to stand a chance against King. Sure he probably had no idea about the abilities of his, but I am convinced that he no longer spends time to come up with specific counters to specific abilities and is able to come up with one the spot. As he descends on the palace with Zeno, we can observe that it takes Pitou´s undivided attention pushed to its limits just to perceive Netero´s attack. His intention was clearly to push him aside so that he wouldn´t interfere, but if he meant harm, then it would be different story.
 

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NeverEndingStory hit the nail in its head.

Meruem broke through HK because he had the insane durability to tank THOUSANDS of hits from HK with little damage to no damage + The algorithm perception he gained from playing against Komugi who was practically a non-conscience Nen user Via strategy creator. It also took him thousands of moves to break through.....

Pitou had good senses and has a Hatsu puppeteer to control her movements even if he body was physically incapable of moving. High durability the King tried to fling his head from his body but he withstood the blow, I still think that was more of the King underestimating his RG strength thinking he could kill them with a thoughtless blow.

I'll still say Netero can dance with Pitou, or more like turn Putou into a punching bag for HK while he is being softened and tenderized for a Zero Hand; Which was able to flay some of Meruem's exoskeleton...I doubt Pitou could tank it and come out with ligh injuries such as Meruem. Especially if Netero was able to pretty much bruise Meruem after Thousands of HK strikes, Pitou is gonna feel much more than bruised from Thiusands of HK strikes that he doesn't have the speed to avoid or mount an attack the way Meruem did.
 

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a form of Gon that had undergone decades of training MASSACRED Pitou without even a tiny bit of challenge. Gons arm got cut off but who gives a shit he used he dismembered arm in style and smashed Pitou's corpse puppet to the ground.

Netero was shown training for decades and decades. We know Gon is a rare case but the same logic applies to Netero. Netero would've NEVER allowed Pitou the chance to escape his hatsu. It's a joke for people to try and say Pitou would win.

The guy above who freaking said Pitou doesn't need to be good at the gungi game is an absolute riot. The point is that Meruems tactical abilities were enhanced ridiculously due to Komugi pushing him further and further with his tactics. The damn narrator explains it for you, so did you just not read subtitles that episode? The game board was also shown several times during the battle.

Netero had ridiculous endurance, as shown by the several scenes of him taking a step, punching, taking another step, rinse and repeat, for YEARS and YEARS. Pitou would've never gotten through to take one of his limbs off. Netero could've gone on for a long ass time and also, the narrator said after thousands of hits Meruem was beginning to feel the sense of light pain all throughout his body.
 

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a form of Gon that had undergone decades of training MASSACRED Pitou without even a tiny bit of challenge. Gons arm got cut off but who gives a shit he used he dismembered arm in style and smashed Pitou's corpse puppet to the ground.

Netero was shown training for decades and decades. We know Gon is a rare case but the same logic applies to Netero. Netero would've NEVER allowed Pitou the chance to escape his hatsu. It's a joke for people to try and say Pitou would win.

The guy above who freaking said Pitou doesn't need to be good at the gungi game is an absolute riot. The point is that Meruems tactical abilities were enhanced ridiculously due to Komugi pushing him further and further with his tactics. The damn narrator explains it for you, so did you just not read subtitles that episode? The game board was also shown several times during the battle.

Netero had ridiculous endurance, as shown by the several scenes of him taking a step, punching, taking another step, rinse and repeat, for YEARS and YEARS. Pitou would've never gotten through to take one of his limbs off. Netero could've gone on for a long ass time and also, the narrator said after thousands of hits Meruem was beginning to feel the sense of light pain all throughout his body.
Firstly: That is a form of Gon who forwarded himself into his max genetic potential in order to defeat a creature he gave his whole life up for in exchange of strength, a creature that he hated with his whole being and devoted anything and everything in his future to be exchanged for the power to kill it in that moment. So no. They aren't comparable. That form of Gon would stomped Netero clean off the Earth also.

Secondly: Yes. Pitou doesn't need to be good at Gungi to win. (Damn i said it again didn't i?) Netero said himself, he is no longer the strongest. In fact out of the Zodiacs we can assume that a couple of the combat orientated ones could at least give Netero a run for his money. But are all of them brainaics? Are all of them Championship level skilled at Gungi? Are you saying that even outside of Zodiacs, everyone that beats Netero has to be good at board games? Of course not, Meruem used that path with success but that isn't the only way to win a fight. Thinking so would be very basic and narrow-minded.

-Meruem could've beaten Netero without forcing Netero to use ALL his moves. This was a personal decision that Meruem himself announced to the Audience (Or did you not read the subtles?) He wanted to force Netero to show his whole hand so he could beat Netero without a shadow of a doubt as to who was 'King'. The same way you would beat someone in a board game. (Coincidence?) Simply put. He wanted a 100% Victory, all of Netero's moves countered and to tank his ultimate attack. Meruem could've just found an opening and settled the fight a bit sooner, but for his own ego (As he announced again) he didn't want Netero to lose heart before he has a chance to figure out his rhyme.

Thirdly, instead of being wrapped up in Netero's 'years' of training have you stopped to actually look at the physical stats and accomplishments of the combatants we are comparing?

-Pitou is physically comparable to the King who we know is FAR more durable than Netero. She moves fast enough (under her Hatsu) to catch Gon off guard and even God-speed Killua was barely there in time to save Gon. Her speed is in the same ball park, that's without her Hatsu.

-In addition to her speed that is comparable to the King's we have her Utility:
-->The ability to use dozens of Puppets in the fight means that Not only would Netero be using his HK to keep Pitou at bay, he would be busy keeping Dozens of puppets away. In a fashion that would only get more difficult, as puppets wouldn't take fatal blows. They can only be grinded to the point where controlling them isn't possible, and we've seen the hit and run style of combat that one has to adopt to get close to Netero. He can't spend time making sure to grind a Hatsu enhanced corpse to dust, he just has to swat it away and prep for the next attack. And as the number of puppets shrink, the remaining ones would move more fluently and quickly along with the actual controller, Pitou. Then you have to think about Pitou's En: This is an important point. En can be used in combat. We know this, however it shrinks variably but 1/10 of the size is about the universal. Pitou's En is about 2 miles when she is stationary and focusing (Not counting the length of the tentacles that extend well past the boundaries). so she'd have a combat EN of about 1050 feet. This is what would make her formidable (and personally makes me think help her excel) vs. Netero. She wouldn't need to see the moves to understand the openings like Meruem. She would FEEL The openings. And as a controller, she could move any number of Puppets into positions to take advantage of the openings AS THEY HAPPEN. She wouldn't need to wait it out and compile some type of attack pattern, she'd be able to respond as soon as his attack pattern is revealed to her in her En. This would force Netero to try and respond to her finding an opening with 2 or 3 puppets with a counter, which she would use en to sense the attack path's of and move more into place to attack the newer opening, and it'd become an Echo of Netero vs Meruem all over again.

-Nen aside. Pitou's physical endurance isn't that much farther than the kings. They are more genetically siblings than Meruem with other Ants (Save for Kite and other RGs). Since Meruem isn't an enhancer (Not that i know of) Their basic physical endurance is the same baseline. if anything Pitou might be 80% or so of Meruem's durability. but that in itself is MORE than enough to beat Netero with. (I doubt Pre-rose Meruem was using over like 60% of his actual combat compacity to beat Netero).

TL;DR: Pitou's stats without nen are close to about 80-90% of Meruem's. Her Hatsu that increases her stats makes her end up approximately in the same ball park as Meruem Pre-rose. Her puppets bring a different dynamic to the fight making it more fruitful for her. Her mid-combat usage of En can give her a solid 'read' on Netero's style of combat and help her succeed against him.
 

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^ ....once again the entire purpose of Gungi is flying right over your head. You obviously didn't understand the narrator explaining, IN DETAIL, the comparison between Netero's attacks + Meruem's reaction vs the mental development Meruem underwent via TACTICALLY battling Komugi. It's like you don't even read the posts that you quote and then just repeat yourself. You're a broken record and I'm so done lol.
 
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