Discussion Pitou vs Netero

[Phantron]

Greed Island is a team effort and the powers displayed in there only makes slightly more sense than Alluka, as in none of the individuals of Greed Island can do anything remotely close to whatever their combined powers can do in Greed Island. There's probably a large 'I promise never to use this power in any productive way' factor involved, similar to how you can't just use Potclean as an infinitely powerful shield even though Potclean is said to be indestructible. For example we have nearly instantaneous teleportation on mobile marker or ability to transmute objects into a card and vice versa as a basic power in Greed Island and both power would be extremely overpowered in fighting, and that's just the basic stuff compared to what the special cards.

While nobody said the top 5 of the world are the top 5 fighters, it's ridiculous to value non-combat achievement given how fighting-centric the story is. Like I mentioned in another thread, initially power in HXH is beyond just physical but also political/economical. For example, neither the Spiders, the Zs, or Hisoka can achieve Ging's status where he can erase himself from the Internet (some members of the Spider live outside the national census but you can obviously still find info on them if you paid enough, just not catalogued data like date of birth). For that matter, we also know that Ging can legally rename most people and it'll become the law, and again that's something that goes beyond how hard you can punch someone. However despite occasionally references to things like that, given the way HXH turned out it clearly turns out none of that stuff actually matters and you can expect random powerful individuals to just paratroop down in the middle of a capital of a nation and start killing everyone (even though Hisoka wanted a license to avoid getting trouble for killing people and that Ilumi needed one to get into a country legally), so that suggests the world of HXH simply doesn't take non combat achievement seriously. At any rate, non combat achievement/power is hard to say. How would you rank Neon's ability, for example?

 

[shionoro]

Our story is fighting centric, the hunter world however is not.
Most of the hunters we have seen in the hunter association are, judging from hisoka's estimation, weaklings compared to him.

And i tend to agree, most hunters we have encountered had abilities which are not focussed on fighting (even if most can be used for it).

Menchi is a star hunter, for example, and while we do not know her power, as a gourmet hunter it is questionable whether she has developed a power for fighting.
Biske is a double star hunter, and, while no doubt powerful, her hatsu is made for other purposes than fighting. Her fighting prowess just comes from her natural strength+nen strenghtening (and shingen kung fu).
The spiders value their intel gathering team higher than their muscles, even tho pakunoda and shisuku are definitely not in the upper half of their fighting power (leave alone kutopi).
Hisoka seems to value the skill of menchi while repairing his arm almost as much as he values potential he sees in other characters.
Bushidora and teradin, one single and one double star hunter, get effortlessly offed by hisoka. They really cannot have been that strong, they seem to have put up less resistance than gotoh.
And while i agree we do not know their hatus yet, other star hunters include:
Pariston, Cheadle, Ikshonpe and sanbica, who clearly seem to be valued for their knowledge and mastery in certain field or their intellect and not for their fighting power.

Neon's power would not rank high with me as a level of nen mastery. She has no real control over it and does not even know the concept of nen. She just happens to have developed a very useful hatsu.
The same goes for Alluka. They have instinctive knowledge about how to use their power, but they did not master it (yet).
A nen master, in my opinion, is someone able to use his nen and hatsu to the utmost, even if it starts out basic.

To come to greed island: I think what happens on greed island makes sense if you add limitations on several characters. We do not know much about how far joint efforts (like with the mech in the newest chapter) can influence the power of nen abilities.
And we do not know which level of mastery you have to have archieved to even be able to pull a joint effort off.

Nen mastery is something i would measure in abilities tested in the early greed island chapters (when gon and killuah were fighting against monsters) Those were basic training units on the way to become a nen master.
Ging's nen mastery goes even so far taht he can copy other people's abilities and imbue objects for a decade with his nen (the tape he left for gon) without it fading away and controlling his nen flow in the latest chapters freely.
I have no doubt that ging was the one being able to combine the abilities of the people who formed greed island because he understood them the best.
And that is something netero could not have done.

While i DO think that netero could have beat ging in a fight, that is still a level of nen amstery netero did not (want to) archieve.

About the legality problems:
There are many reasons to stay legal even if you are strong enough to kill any threat and stay hidden.
Hisoka could not have fought in heaven's arena if he was a searched murderer.
As for Illuma and the Zoldyeks: They seem to be (in the hunter world) an absolutely legal company. Noone is trying to raid their home (except blacklist hunters, who, themselves, are basically bounty hunters, but not the police) and there are even people making bus tours to their residence.
It seems to be important for them to take legal contracts, a lot of travel and information gather gets much easier when you are legal.

After all: All of those groups could be defeated.
If the Zoldyeks ran arround killing policians like no problem, people could drop a rosebomb on their home and that's it.
And a reason for the mafia to not keep on pursuing the spiders (which they definitely could have done with people like kurapica on board, and obviously also being able to pay for the service of the zoldyeks) were internal reasons and relations with meteor city, not because it was out of question.
The spiders also made a point in faking their death

 

[Phantron]

HXH waffles between physical power > all, or that other form of power > physical. For example, why did the Ants set up a puppet government? The implication is that as strong as they are, they're not yet ready to say, "Hello humans we're here to eradicate your existence from the planet". By having a puppet government this stops the human from launching nukes or sending an army, which we can tell is still the biggest threat to the Ants. That's the reason why they're building their own army, after all.

On the other hand, the attack on the Ants themselves suggest that there seems to be nothing stopping you from rounding up 10 powerful guys that just paratroop into the capital building of any nation and take them out. If this plan doesn't work, that'd just mean whatever expert they've guarding the capital building is stronger than the guys you rounded up so the problem is that you didn't hire guys as good as you thought. Well, how much does it take to get hired help? I think we can agree if you have say 10 Silvas that ought to be enough to take out most nations (only Netero is obviously stronger than Silva in the actual attack on Ants, and even if it's hard compare say Morel and Silva directly, we can handwave that by just having more Silvas. Pufu, for example, thought the Hunters should have several guys as strong as Morel in order to mount an effective offensive, and that's probably attacking the strongest defense around a nation in HXH). Well, let's work backwards to see how much it might cost to hire someone like Silva.

After Spiders made their initial success, the Mafia put a bounty of 2 billion zenny on each member, so 14 billion zenny. Killua noted that they're using a check instead of the goods they were trying to sell, suggesting that the Mafia obviously prefer not to pay up 14 billion zenny upfront. Further, this would suggest the value of the goods stolen is likely not significantly more than 14 billion zenny, since Killua noted Mafia would prefer to repay it with the goods instead at presumably an inflated price for their true worth compared to cold hard cash.

Since Mafia promised 14 billion zenny to destroy the Spiders we can assume the cost to hire Silva + Zeno is almost certainly not more than that (they hired quite a few assassins too). Miluki asked for a loan of 15 billion zenny for killing 10 guys for Silva, and that'd involve him killing guys that normally people contract Silva out for. So, 15 billion sounds like more than enough to hire Silva.

Now, we know a copy of Greed Island was sold for the 30-50 billion range, so buying 6 copies of Greed Island would likely be around 200 billion. So that means if the guy who hoarded all the copies of GI could've just assembled a task force of the world's most powerful guys available for hire and attack any country head on.

But wait, what about the Hunter who donated 6 copies of GI to the auction? He obviously knows what they're worth, and he gave it up for nothing! And he just a random Hunter, certainly nobody high up in the Hunter's Association hierarchy! He's clearly not meant to be the wealthiest amongst Hunters, so that means any Hunter with his wealth can pull it off. And this is purely economic power, e.g. spending cash and getting whoever you can hire. We know that some Hunters, like Ging, has political connections and personal connections to stuff that can't be just bought.

So when you put it all together, that pretty much anybody important in the Hunter's Association can just engineer an event that completely wipe out the Spiders for the lolz, or even a small nation. So with that perspective it does explain why most Hunters do not have ability revolved around killing effectively, because other form of 'soft' power is more useful so even an ability that makes you a ton of money can be preferable over one that kills your opponent. Except, of course, this isn't how HXH is portrayed. People still resort to resolving stuff with physical power. Heck, Phinx and Feitan directly robbed a copy of GI that was bought for around 30 billion zenny. That's significantly more than the bounty placed on the entire Spiders but apparently it was only guarded by 2 bodyguard looking guys. So while for something worth in the range of 15 billion zenny you can hire experts like Silva and Zeno to get it back, apparently a 30 billion zenny copy of GI is something you left in care of two guys in suits.

 

[kkck]

Well, we do know that the events relating the ant extermination were more or less orchestrated by netero so that he would have his fight. Netero could have put anyone on the job including the zodiacs. And at least dragon was supposed to be "closest" to netero in terms of skill. And of course with the 12 zodiacs you have a collection of hatsu which can be used to defeat the ants along with a number of other resources.

As far as the money thing, I don't think the manga has been portrayed in a way in which specifically getting money would be more valuable than other skills. A while back we were given information regarding how netero ranked tasks and how the organization did as well. The very games were actually ranked as "easy" to obtain because you can just buy one for a price. Basically things that can be bought with money are not seen as complicated. And money itself is not a rarity among hunters. Wasn't the point made early in the manga that several of the wealthiest people around were hunters? Money is not seen as specially valuable in hunter's context.

As for the game being guarded by guys in suits, I think the issue was that nen as a whole is not actually known by the majority of the population. Odds are that even people who hire the zoldicks don't know about nen, they just know they are some sort of superhuman guys. So you have nen which is invisible to most people and nen users who seem to make a point of teaching it to relatively few people.

 

[Aonori]

Netero would win, the notion that pitou would´ve any time to heal himself up in this fight is laughable, first off, he cant (just like Meruem) react in time to prevent the hand movements from being completed and activate Netero´s nen ability, second, Netero´s hits when focused on certain body parts of someone like the King, got damage given, Pitou is weaker than the King, so he would take more damage from Netero´s nen attacks, this is common sense, third, even if he were to hit netero once he would never give in for a lethal blow right off the bat, at best he would lose his leg first if Pitou found that opening in the first place, which is doubtful, meaning the fight would be prolonged, possibly lasting more time than Meruem vs Netero, but since Pitou is less tankable than Meruem, she would take more damage in the same time Meruem took in the fight to take off Netero´s leg, Since Netero can keep up his nen attacks for much longer he wouldnt run out of nen before pitou being dead, finally even if Pitou came back with a nen boost after death, Netero´s Zero Hand would finish this fight, Pitou has no chance, Netero walks off this fight with definitely one or worse case two less limbs, but he wins.

 

[XXGenesis]

I think most would agree with you. That Piou wouldn't be able to escape the Palm,Chop & Slap blitz from Netero. & Would be a rag doll...

Try thinking up some new match ups, even though we only get about 10chapters a year. There must be more match ups for us to think of...These vs threads are kinda old & dead