Discussion Plot-holes in One Piece

[Zehahaha]

This is basically what I think. That could have easily just been regular ol' "Killing Intent", which has been used a couple times in the early part of the series. I don't think Oda had haki in mind when writing the first chapter, and if he did, I doubt the idea was developed much. Definitely not to the point where it is now. He did a grand job of folding into the mythos though.

Personally, I think Luffy breaking out of Doffy's Parasite was a bit of a plot hole. What do you peeps think?

Well it had to happen, I find it weird DD didn't use right from the start tbh... PIS I guess, there won't be much of a fight if DD used right from the start

 

[Holt]

I don't think it's a plot hole. Gear 4 was shown to be incredibly powerful after all

 

[HereNThere]

I don't think it's a plot hole. Gear 4 was shown to be incredibly powerful after all

But how did Luffy activate it though? When he first used Gear 4, he had to use Muscle Balloon to activate it, but, since he was restricted by Parasite, he had no way to blow air into his muscles.

And even if Gear 4 is powerful, we really weren't given a good idea of the strength of Doffy's strings. I mean, Birdcage was pretty much unstoppable, yet, Parasite could be broken out of? What makes Birdcage so special? Are they a different type of string? Can Doffy even create different qualities of string? If so, why not use the highest quality of string all the time? Why not use a mini birdcage of Luffy? Anyways, after introducing the Devil Fruit and Stamina connection, I figured Oda would show Doffy having trouble controlling his strings throughout the fight, but his ability showed no discernible change in effectiveness.

 

[ShenGao]

But how did Luffy activate it though? When he first used Gear 4, he had to use Muscle Balloon to activate it, but, since he was restricted by Parasite, he had no way to blow air into his muscles.

And even if Gear 4 is powerful, we really weren't given a good idea of the strength of Doffy's strings. I mean, Birdcage was pretty much unstoppable, yet, Parasite could be broken out of? What makes Birdcage so special? Are they a different type of string? Can Doffy even create different qualities of string? If so, why not use the highest quality of string all the time? Why not use a mini birdcage of Luffy? Anyways, after introducing the Devil Fruit and Stamina connection, I figured Oda would show Doffy having trouble controlling his strings throughout the fight, but his ability showed no discernible change in effectiveness.

How Luffy was able to instant-activate Gear 4 is still confusing me and why no one was able to destroy the Birdcage, too. After all the Birdcage was created by sacrificing a String-clone, one of the many clones who were easily cut or destroyed, even by a non-Haki user like Kyros.

 

[Holt]

But how did Luffy activate it though? When he first used Gear 4, he had to use Muscle Balloon to activate it, but, since he was restricted by Parasite, he had no way to blow air into his muscles.

And even if Gear 4 is powerful, we really weren't given a good idea of the strength of Doffy's strings. I mean, Birdcage was pretty much unstoppable, yet, Parasite could be broken out of? What makes Birdcage so special? Are they a different type of string? Can Doffy even create different qualities of string? If so, why not use the highest quality of string all the time? Why not use a mini birdcage of Luffy? Anyways, after introducing the Devil Fruit and Stamina connection, I figured Oda would show Doffy having trouble controlling his strings throughout the fight, but his ability showed no discernible change in effectiveness.

Ah right, activating it should have been an issue. So fair point then. Perhaps it was easier to activate it since he didn't deactivate it to begin with?

About the strings, there could be two things. First, Luffy might have actually been able to destroy the birdcage with Gear 4 though the size of the birdcage would obviously be a problem but I think Gear 4 is indeed strong enough to break DD's strings. Didn't Gear 4 also break the spider net?
Another issue is that DD might have to use a much thinner strong for parasite. Seeing as he would be controlling nerves or so in the body, delicacy would be necessary so perhaps he doesn't make the strings so hard so they don't damage the body. These are just speculation but I'd say Gear 4 is indeed strong enough to break DD's strings based on what we've seen.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

But how did Luffy activate it though? When he first used Gear 4, he had to use Muscle Balloon to activate it, but, since he was restricted by Parasite, he had no way to blow air into his muscles.

And even if Gear 4 is powerful, we really weren't given a good idea of the strength of Doffy's strings. I mean, Birdcage was pretty much unstoppable, yet, Parasite could be broken out of? What makes Birdcage so special? Are they a different type of string? Can Doffy even create different qualities of string? If so, why not use the highest quality of string all the time? Why not use a mini birdcage of Luffy? Anyways, after introducing the Devil Fruit and Stamina connection, I figured Oda would show Doffy having trouble controlling his strings throughout the fight, but his ability showed no discernible change in effectiveness.

It seems all that's necessary to activate Gear 4th is inhaling loads of air and parasite's control is limited to joints, not micro movements. Birdcage and Parasite are different strings too, we can't expect Joker to have used the kind of strings used for Birdcage to be used to stitch together his organs or surely that'd be counter-productive; the harder the strings, the less movement they have. Different strings for different purposes and Parasite's strings are powerful, however Gear 4th is just stronger than the strings required for parasite.

 

[HereNThere]

How Luffy was able to instant-activate Gear 4 is still confusing me and why no one was able to destroy the Birdcage, too. After all the Birdcage was created by sacrificing a String-clone, one of the many clones who were easily cut or destroyed, even by a non-Haki user like Kyros.

Yeah, Doffy's strings were quite inconsistent in quality.

Ah right, activating it should have been an issue. So fair point then. Perhaps it was easier to activate it since he didn't deactivate it to begin with?

About the strings, there could be two things. First, Luffy might have actually been able to destroy the birdcage with Gear 4 though the size of the birdcage would obviously be a problem but I think Gear 4 is indeed strong enough to break DD's strings. Didn't Gear 4 also break the spider net?
Another issue is that DD might have to use a much thinner strong for parasite. Seeing as he would be controlling nerves or so in the body, delicacy would be necessary so perhaps he doesn't make the strings so hard so they don't damage the body. These are just speculation but I'd say Gear 4 is indeed strong enough to break DD's strings based on what we've seen.

When Gear 4 deactivated, it looked like all the air in his body was forcefully expelled, so, even if that was somehow possible, I don't think he would have enough air left in his muscles to reexapand them.

I don't think we have a good comparison between the strength of Birdcage and Spider's Web, but if they are the same, then sure, Luffy would be capable of destroying Birdcage. That just brings up a bunch of hypothetical though that can't really be applied due to the fact that Oda's telling a story. They can't be that delicate though. Doffy can create string thin enough to heal muscle sinew, which was tough enough to last him through the fight. And speaking of which, Oda never specified how Parasite works. In the flashback, it was shown that Parasite can take over someone by invading the back of their neck, which would mean the spinal cord is what's being controlled. I guess an argument could be made that Luffy expanded the nerves in his body and Parasite wouldn't be able to reach as far, but, then again, we were explicitely told that Luffy broke the strings.

It seems all that's necessary to activate Gear 4th is inhaling loads of air and parasite's control is limited to joints, not micro movements. Birdcage and Parasite are different strings too, we can't expect Joker to have used the kind of strings used for Birdcage to be used to stitch together his organs or surely that'd be counter-productive; the harder the strings, the less movement they have. Different strings for different purposes and Parasite's strings are powerful, however Gear 4th is just stronger than the strings required for parasite.

Unless Luffy learned how to breath through his skin like Toriko, I don't buy that him breathing in was enough to send air to his muscles.

Like I said above, Parasite was shown attached to the necks of the people in the flashback, implying it's control takes place along the spinal cord.

I would think that the Ito Ito no Mi's strings can be as strong as thin and strong as the user wants it to be. Also, I would think Haki could be applied to it to make it stronger. But I guess that implies Doffy's haki was weakened at that point.

 

[Holt]

Well it's either the stings are of different strengths or Gear 4 is generally powerful enough to break DD's strings. Probably a mixture of both. Spider Web was likely infused with Haki and Luffy broke it so I'm guessing while Gear 4 is strong enough to break the strings, there are also strings of varying strengths. The string clone comes to mind. If DD is expecting to control his opponent, there would really be no need to reinforce the strength of the parasite string. It might not even be Haki infused.
Activating Gear 4 under the situation would be the only real issue I guess.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Unless Luffy learned how to breath through his skin like Toriko, I don't buy that him breathing in was enough to send air to his muscles.

Like I said above, Parasite was shown attached to the necks of the people in the flashback, implying it's control takes place along the spinal cord.

I would think that the Ito Ito no Mi's strings can be as strong as thin and strong as the user wants it to be. Also, I would think Haki could be applied to it to make it stronger. But I guess that implies Doffy's haki was weakened at that point.

Have you seen the latest episodes? Parasite is not attached at the spine as assumed, it's literally how you'd expect a puppet doll to be strung; strings everywhere. It's just now shown as clearly as it is the anime because they're usually shown as literally invisible.

This is Luffy when he's Initially bound, we can't see the strings in Chapter 790:

Spoiler

This is Luffy when he's in Gear 4th, transition from the last image. It's clear that strings are snapping not from his neck, but all over his body like one would expect from a puppet.

Spoiler

The Anime shows Bellamy being bound a lot clearer than the Manga does, and this is Parasite here again.

Spoiler

Before Joker dismember's Law's limb, he has him arm held whilst being binded by parasite too; the strings are visible if you catch it at the right moments.

Spoiler

If Parasite were just a string attached to the spine, we won't see Luffy snapping multiple strings all over his body, but just his neck and the anime is consistent with this. Parasite is not nano-techesque that acts like a remote, it's physically attached to every limb of the opponent and holds them in place. It also makes more sense that this is what Parasite is and how it works.

 

[Fox666]

The anime is not canon. It's clear in the manga that the technique known as Parasite works by attaching a string to the spine. What Doflamingo did in chapter 790 is not the same technique.

In regards of what Doflamingo used to control the movement of characters before the time-skip, it appears to have been Parasite, given the characteristics:
- Nobody was able to escape the effects of it, including Diamond Jozu;
- Doesn't seems to have a limit on the number of individuals it can manipulate simultaneously;
- The effects vanished with time;

Also note that in chapter 790 Luffy is in an open environment, wouldn't the strings get enrolled if he used it like that amidst a war?

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

The anime is not canon. It's clear in the manga that the technique known as Parasite works by attaching a string to the spine. What Doflamingo did in chapter 790 is not the same technique.

In regards of what Doflamingo used to control the movement of characters before the time-skip, it appears to have been Parasite, given the characteristics:
- Nobody was able to escape the effects of it, including Diamond Jozu;
- Doesn't seems to have a limit on the number of individuals it can manipulate simultaneously;
- The effects vanished with time;

Also note that in chapter 790 Luffy is in an open environment, wouldn't the strings get enrolled if he used it like that amidst a war?

Everything in the Anime is not always non-cannon, is the Red-Hawk we see in the Anime non-cannon? the Radio knife non-cannon? The Anime needs to be consistent with the manga. I can understand the stories not being cannon, but now techniques too are not cannon? Makes no sense to me anyway.

Also, can you prove that Parasite is actually just a thread attatched to the spine? Where in the manga is it stated or what panel can you show that proves this?

How can you distinguis that this is not Parasite?

It contradicts what we saw at chapter 790, initially we see Luffy is not moving and we know it's Parasite, as soon as he uses Gear 4th all these strings become visible and snap and suddenly this can't be Parasite? Who else has broken out of Parasite in order to conclude that it can't be Parasite?

It really is the only technique Joker uses to bind people, so that's unequivocally Parasite. Until we see Joker use parasite and someone decides to shrug off the effects simply by pulling a string out of their spine, it's speculation that's been proved wrong and has no basis any more.

When Sanji got caught by Joker, we all assumed it was Parasite because he stopped moving, we never said must be a different technique. When Joker used Parasite on Jozu, he stopped moving similar as other character that have been victim to this technique.

Lastly, Jozu is not a standard by any means, just because he's a Whitebeard Pirate doesn't make him untouchable. Jozu got frozen by Aokiji and lost a limb and was rendered completely incapacitated while Joker shrugged it off, but with a significant show of effort applied. He's overrated, Luffy escaped Parasite whilst Jozu didn't.

 

[Fox666]

Chapter 727 makes it clear that Parasite works by attaching a string to the spine:

And the way Doflamingo controlled Luffy is chapter 790 is visibly distinct, his limbs are being held by the strings and he moves is a very unnatural way, while victims of Parasite have perfect human-like movements.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Chapter 727 makes it clear that Parasite works by attaching a string to the spine:

And the way Doflamingo controlled Luffy is chapter 790 is visibly distinct, his limbs are being held by the strings and he moves is a very unnatural way, while victims of Parasite have perfect human-like movements.

I don't see any distinction between the way he controls, sometimes he chooses to control a specific individual or control multiple individuals at random. Also, the fact that those signs are shown behind their head most likely implies they're just aware they've been hit or taken hold by something from behind, I don't think it explicitly means they're controlled from the spine.

Here the image shows a huge amount of strings behind them:

Spoiler

The same symbol which indicates being hit from behind is present again, I don't think it's specifically pointing to the spine. When Luffy is taken in by the string too, we don't even see the strings until Gear 4th so they're not clearly visible.

Here the strings are not discernible at all.

Spoiler

What's also clear is depending on strength of an individual, it's harder to control as easily. The like of Jozu, Sanji and Luffy were both unable to move and didn't explicitly control them which is why he only had them bound while he's shown to easily control weak civilians, king Riku, Rebecca and other relatively weak people like Bellamy.

 

[Fox666]

You can see the string on the back of their necks in these panels.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

1. The strings Joker uses to stay elevated or appear to fly, are they visible? No.
2. All the strings Joker uses to control people, are they visible? Barely.
3. Even when we see his strings, it's only momentarily, so the odds of it just being 1 string is severely low.
4. Just seeing 1 string doesn't mean that's all the strings at work and it's evident that Joker is controlling millions if not billions of strings that we don't even see.
5. It makes more sense that it's multiple strings attached to the limbs, not just 1 magical string attached to the spine.
6. Any time an individual has been bound or controlled by Joker, no one makes distinction that this 1 is parasite while another isn't.

What we see in chapter 790 and in all other panels doesn't contradicts any other panel that Parasite has been used while 1 string does. There's more sense for multiple strings than it just being spine based.

And if this is just 1 string at work with a string just attached to the spine, it suggests that Joker becomes the brains of that individual being that this string is attached to the spine and surely, control over nerves require electrical impulses if I'm correct. This takes Joker into another realm of power, manipulating both strings and electrical impulses?

There's just much more sense in simply being control of limbs as has been briefly flashed in the anime and explicitly shown in chapter 790.

 

[Fox666]

Dude, all the strings are magical. Controlling the brains of people is not far-fetched for One Piece standards. Just look at the random abilities Law can use.

 

[Schabrak]

That's the forehead, end of the spine discussion?

While yes it seems pretty magical at times, he's often acted as a puppeteer playing with all his victims, so it could be multiple strings as well.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Dude, all the strings are magical. Controlling the brains of people is not far-fetched for One Piece standards. Just look at the random abilities Law can use.

Not all abilities work like magic, Law's abilities always work magically while that of Joker's is mainly physical and can be opposed by brute strength. I'd leave it at that, we'll know more in future since we both got our reasons to believe either. Would be great if One Piece would release exact details on abilities sort of like a Cardgame of some sort, lol.

 

[HereNThere]

The panel above wasn't what I was referring to. I thought there was a scene in the manga where there was a close up of one of Doffy's stings inside King Riku's neck, but I appear to have been mistaken.

 

[I Am Atomic]

Dude, all the strings are magical. Controlling the brains of people is not far-fetched for One Piece standards. Just look at the random abilities Law can use.

What do you mean magical? Everything he uses are what Surgeons (in our world) do all the time.