Semifinal Reinhard van Astrea vs. Vegeta

[GrySun]

*Ultra instinct theme starts playing

No seriously, his instinct is so great that he can perfectly predict anything that approaches him, I want to believe its thanks to a blessing.

His speed is far too great when disregarding his surroundings tho and can pass that speed to his mount if he has one.

Is that even a matter of speed? Even if time was as slow as possible how would you avoid the drops if they're too close and bunched up?

 

[Hardy]

Btw if Vegeta throws him outside the atmosphere ala Joseph what can Reinhard do?

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 29, 2021, Original Post Date: Apr 29, 2021 ---

As for the rest of Vegeta's abilities, none can go around Rein's defences. He's basically impossible to surpass in a contest of strength.

Why?

 

[Lambu]

So lets start with the basics against Reinhard. Vegeta is way faster and stronger then reinhard, which makes a normal fight between those two quite onesided. (I think most will agree on this)


It comes all down to Reinhards hax. Then it will get interesting. Vegetas attacks are not only on a godly level, but can destroy everything, that isnt immortal(hakai).


Hakai just for your information is the following:


Beerus says the technique fully removes matter from existence, and a powerful energy is released when the object disappears. Obviously, this is because all matter is meant to simply distribute elsewhere when its original form is dismantles, but that does not appear to be the case with Hakai.


So if reinhard would be desintegrated with hakai, he wouldnt be able to resurrect thanks to his phoenixblessing. The question here is, can Vegeta actually hit him with hakai, since reinhards power are completly bullshit in that regard. The answer is: Yes. There are multiple ways.


In general: authorities > blessings. So if Hakai is comparable to an autority there isnt anything reinhard can do to avoid it, even his sword(which he will have access too) cant do anything against „destroy all matter“, since it will be destroyed too(my standpoint is, because it is blessed by the swordgod, its also a blessing).


But lets say we let it slide and say „ok, the sword can cancel this“. What happens next? Well the best thing about vegeta in this tournament is:

He is aware, that he is in a manga/anime. So when facing against reinhard he will get aware that his powers are bullshit and related to the system of a videogame. He knows the concept of videogames thanks to his son trunks, who likes to play these. (And even plays some himself, check youtube for „vegeta plays“)


So if reinhard hax cancels out, all his attacks he will come to the conclusion, that this is probably a videogame and therefore tries to overload it…. By blowing up everything, since then he doesnt need to hold back to save earth.


Does Vegeta have power to destroy everything? Yes. He is even listed as a: multi-galaxy destroyer power level in the battlewiki. So if he decides to blow up the entire re.zero universe(with his gods too) he can do it.

In this way reinhard would probably survive once due his phoenixblessings, but then dies in the void of space. If he cant get anymore blessings(i dont think the universe of his manga can withstand the pure destruction that vegeta can do). Even if he wished beforehand for a blessing of spacebreathing, he is done, because vegeta can always sense him and erase him then from existence.

Also note that a Super Saiyajin God can survive in space.

So my arguments are:

Hakai trumps his blessings. They are a gift from god, but not godly in itself, since it manifests as an ability of his own.

If they dont belong to himself, vegeta can actually counter them with his forced spirit fission.

„Forced Spirit Fission allows the user to separate and manipulate energy from their target, granting them the ability to do things such as undo Fusion or Absorption techniques and free trapped souls.“

Which would deattach the blessings from reinhard by itself. In eitherway, they would be countered.

If we assume hakai(spriti fission gets countered, he notices the hax/bullshit and realizes he is played in another mangauniverse and destroys this universe by its core. Which will we lead to his win in the end anyway thanks to his extremly destructive potential.

Instances of Hakai being overwhelmed through strength and resistance.

That power is not absolute, definitely not an authority.

Also Spirit Fission only separates power that isn't the target's own.

 

[Hardy]

I'm also trying to understand how he is immortal. The blessing itself is a revive, so he does die to use it.

Instances of Hakai being overwhelmed through strength and resistance.

That power is not absolute, definitely not an authority.

Also Spirit Fission only separates power that isn't the target's own.

How is he as strong and fast as any of those people?

It isn't his own, it's a blessing given by plot planet core.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 29, 2021, Original Post Date: Apr 29, 2021 ---

Iirc that first Hakai wasn't resisted, Beerus aimed at Vegeta's armour.

 

[Lambu]

Trying to understand this character, I'm not familiar with Re Zero at all. How does he damage Vegeta? What's his strongest attack?

If his fastest feat is "beating someone close to light speed" (not himself) then he's considerably slower than Vegeta.

Couldn't Vegeta theoretically blow up the core of the planet and done? No more blessings, no more Reinhard? If Reinhard is allowed to revive why isn't Vegeta, btw?

We'll never see Vegeta teleport again so we might as well consider it a fluke.

Od Laguna is not the "planet's core", its the "Universe's core", its the thing that makes everything exist, including souls.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 29, 2021, Original Post Date: Apr 29, 2021 ---

I'm also trying to understand how he is immortal. The blessing itself is a revive, so he does die to use it.

You saw Zamasu get "killed" multiple times, he just respawned back again. He's immortal not indestructible.

 

[Hardy]

Od Laguna is not the "planet's core", its the "Universe's core", its the thing that makes everything exist, including souls.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 29, 2021, Original Post Date: Apr 29, 2021 ---

You saw Zamasu get "killed" multiple times, he just respawned back again. He's immortal not indestructible.

I saw him regenerating back like Buu and becoming one with the universe, not being poofed back by god.

 

[Sachsenhesse]

Od Laguna is not the "planet's core", its the "Universe's core", its the thing that makes everything exist, including souls.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 29, 2021, Original Post Date: Apr 29, 2021 ---

You saw Zamasu get "killed" multiple times, he just respawned back again. He's immortal not indestructible.

Thats why he got "erased" by Zeno. Hakai doesnt kill, it erases his existence.

The phoenixpower doesnt help against that.

"The Od Laguna is the center of the world. It is a gigantic crystal within the world and is only seen by Spirits, yet it is unknown if the Od Laguna is accessable by humans and other races"

Found on the wiki. And since its based on a videogame(?) its only the center of the world not an entire universe.

 

[Lambu]

Is that even a matter of speed? Even if time was as slow as possible how would you avoid the drops if they're too close and bunched up?

Thats why I said I hope its a blessing.

Why?

Cause his blessings behave as universal laws. If he has a blessing that deviates ranged attacks the attack will change its course to not hit Reinhard, what Vegeta wants doesn't make an influence.

He has hundreds of blessings and can wish for more if he needs them.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 29, 2021, Original Post Date: Apr 29, 2021 ---

Thats why he got "erased" by Zeno. Hakai doesnt kill, it erases his existence.

The phoenixpower doesnt help against that.

Zeno didnt use Hakai, he destroyed the entire universe in that timeline so Zamasu couldn't exist anywhere.

 

[Hardy]

Cause his blessings behave as universal laws. If he has a blessing that deviates ranged attacks the attack will change its course to not hit Reinhard, what Vegeta wants doesn't make an influence.

He has hundreds of blessings and can wish for more if he needs them.

Alright? Does he have a blessing that doesn't let him be punched in the face?

There's the dragonballs for that. We aren't discussing wishes.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 29, 2021, Original Post Date: Apr 29, 2021 ---

What can he lift? What was his strongest punch? What was he scaled to?

 

[Lambu]

I saw him regenerating back like Buu and becoming one with the universe, not being poofed back by god.

I could swear to see him getting wholes in his torso getting magically back in the anime, but I would have to search to find it.

Thats why he got "erased" by Zeno. Hakai doesnt kill, it erases his existence.

The phoenixpower doesnt help against that.

"The Od Laguna is the center of the world. It is a gigantic crystal within the world and is only seen by Spirits, yet it is unknown if the Od Laguna is accessable by humans and other races"

Found on the wiki. And since its based on a videogame(?) its only the center of the world not an entire universe.

Od Laguna is not a Crystal and I explained it several times through the rounds. It works as a Crystal refracting all existence. Arjuna linked that same wiki page to me and its wrong.

Alright? Does he has a blessing that doesn't let him be punched in the face?

There's the dragonballs for that. We aren't discussing wishes.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 29, 2021, Original Post Date: Apr 29, 2021 ---

What can he lift? What was his strongest punch? What was he scaled to?

He does have a blessing that prevents him from getting ambushed and avoid any hits as long as they are avoidable. He has to want to receive the hit for it to connect, that or an attack impossible to avoid.

His greatest feat in novel was destroying the world and remaking it with a single slash so...

 

[Hardy]

I mostly watched the anime of the black arc then rrad a bit of the manga, I remember him being regenerated not... poofed. But I could be wrong.

So he has UI? How did they manage to kill him?

Dragonball has world destroyers since... The saiyan saga? It's not impressive.

 

[Lambu]

Found on the wiki. And since its based on a videogame(?) its only the center of the world not an entire universe.

Re:Zero is not based off a videogame.

 

[Purity of Magi]

Bruh pls Rainbow Vegeta >>>>>>> that one rainbow >>>>> Reinhard cryhard

Not even close. Get fricking slapped

 

[Hardy]

Vegeta also gets Shoujo eyes in his latest anime transformation, top that.

 

[Lambu]

I mostly watched the anime of the black arc then rrad a bit of the manga, I remember him being regenerated not... poofed. But I could be wrong.

So he has UI? How did they manage to kill him?

Dragonball has world destroyers since... The saiyan saga? It's not impressive.

Its not World on "planet sense" but the entire dimension. He literally ripped the sky open (cracking it) and obliterated everything existing in that timeline, to then have it restored to how it was before the calamity.

And yes he has UI but better, as UI can be outsmarted but blessings can only be overwhelmed by authorities (powers beyond universal laws).

 

[Hardy]

I'm looking at his blessings. His UI only works the the first two attacks in a sequence, am I correct?

 

[Lambu]

There's the dragonballs for that. We aren't discussing wishes.

Except he can wish at any time in this case. The only requisite is he needs it.

I'm looking at his blessings. His UI only works the the first two attacks in a sequence, am I correct?

No, following attack inmunity is for the second and all following attacks.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 29, 2021, Original Post Date: Apr 29, 2021 ---

Bruh pls Rainbow Vegeta >>>>>>> that one rainbow >>>>> Reinhard cryhard

Not even close. Get fricking slapped

Thank goodness Rainbow Vegeta is an alternate version that loves peace and candy.

 

[Hardy]

Spoiler

Is this the space ripping feat? Isn't it the same as Super Buu's?

But yeah if he can wish anything then discussing is irrelevant.

 

[Jammin]

Its Arc 6 knowledge, I explained it here.

Basically the Sword Saint's soul is uncorruptable and indestructible even for an Authority.

While I understand you mean well in linking me to post where you explain it. Nevermind. I'm looking for a neutral party explain it. If it doesn't have a name, that fine there should be some explinaion of it somewhere. Because I think your vision is not as clear as you believe it to be.

For example. It is not immortality. No matter how many times you try and give that ability to Reinhard. As long as he ages. He, by the very definition of the word, does not have that ability. You can't be immortal if you naturally die. There are higher forms than that. But that's like the minimum requirement to meet the definition. Unless he does not have a lifespan. Reinhard is not immortal.

If it works exactly as you describe it would be "invulnerability" of both the soul and the existence. Which are two separate things. The former of which would defend against Hakai as I understand it. The latter would not.

 

[Lambu]

Spoiler

Is this the space ripping feat? Isn't it the same as Super Buu's?

But yeah if he can wish anything then discussing is irrelevant.

Its not that one but his match with Puck in one of the timelines shown in the Witch's Trials.