Semifinal Reinhard van Astrea vs. Vegeta

[Sachsenhesse]

I don't follow Re Zero so whatever i found about Od Laguna is from Here

that is also interesting:

It is rumored that the Od Laguna is the source of Blessings and is the one that gives them but it is not confirmed.

 

[Static]

I don't follow Re Zero so whatever i found about Od Laguna is from Here

Not to be rude but why are you taking information from a completely unrelated source lol? That's not even the main Re Zero wiki (and even the main Re Zero wiki itself is filled with misinformation). Anyways, that is false. It's been hammered in multiple times within the novels that Od Laguna does not possess a material body.

 

[Jammin]

I don't follow Re Zero so whatever i found about Od Laguna is from Here

Seems that site isn't very accurate. I've been trying to hunt down a bunch of different stuff recently. In general this seem like a better bet. Though source material is always best obviously.

 

[Static]

Seems that site isn't very accurate. I've been trying to hunt down a bunch of different stuff recently. In general this seem like a better bet. Though source material is always best obviously.

Even the main Re Zero wiki is infamous in the community for being full of misinformation. They don't even cite sources for many of the claims over there.

But yeah, source material is the way to go.

 

[Arjuna]

Not to be rude but why are you taking information from a completely unrelated source lol? That's not even the Re Zero wiki (and even the Re Zero wiki itself is filled with misinformation). Anyways, that is false. It's been hammered in multiple times within the novels that Od Laguna does not possess a material body.

Well Re Zero wiki doesn't even have an article on Od laguna...

But any rate i am not arguing it,i am not a novel reader mind it.So i take your words for granted.

 

[Jammin]

Even the main Re Zero wiki is infamous in the community for being full of misinformation. They don't even cite sources for many of the claims over there.

I'm sure it is. Wiki's always are but it's the best we have access to that I can find outside of actually cited source material.

 

[Arjuna]

Seems that site isn't very accurate. I've been trying to hunt down a bunch of different stuff recently. In general this seem like a better bet. Though source material is always best obviously.

Sadly it doesn't have any article on Od Laguna....


For me this match will be decided if Reinhard is really universe level or not frankly i always thought he was probably around multi continent level before this tournament but Lambu said he is universal but now i am seeing few users contradicting it.

So really i don't know about this matchup.

 

[Jammin]

Sadly it doesn't have any article on Od Laguna....


For me this match will be decided if Reinhard ia really universe level or not frankly i always thought he was probably around multi continent level before this tournament bur Lambu said he is universal but now i am seeing few users contradicting it.

So really i don't know about this matchup.

It does they just didn't organize it well it's hidden in on the "Terminology" page.

"Od Laguna (オド・ラグナ): The Od Laguna often referred to as the "world" in layman terms it is a storage of mana located at the origin of the world itself. It is where all mana comes from in the world eventually returns to periodically. No one knows where it is located or whether it has a will of its own. It is said that those who awaken to prohibited arts have had their spirits destroyed by looking at it. Some speculate that it is the world's will and gives Divine Protection to people. Its main function is to provide stability to the world & its inhabitants by regulating mana, souls and other aspects of life, while limiting the frequency of natural disasters that occur due to mana running short. Mana flows from Od Laguna to every individual's "Od" , which is connected to it via their gate. How much one receives depends on the size of the gate, e.g the bigger it is the more mana they get, which also affects their aptitude for magic. When mana is expelled from an "Od" through the gate it can be used to either create magic or power objects like Lagmite. Once spent, the residue mana lingers becoming atmospheric mana, which spirits & Spirit Art Users can harness as well as form Lagmite. Eventually, the atmospheric mana returns back to Od Laguna, restarting the cycle again."

Can't vouch for accuracy or anything that's but what it says.

 

[lakhan220]

How is it condescending to say you are latching on to an assumption made from not knowing how to read properly?
Im not saying you are dumb but your argument clearly is, can't really see why I should try to cover that.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 30, 2021, Original Post Date: Apr 30, 2021 ---

Like seriously, go and check how Conditional works in language. You are equating the last statement to "If and only if" just because you feel like it and to remain on your point.

Exactly, this raffling up ur feathers that the condition arose from u deliberately hiding tht info or undeliberately and now u r trying to stuck to ur own created interpretation after initially discarding it as a joke which clearly makes the resurrection conditional.

This will be last time I will simplify it because further than this , even impossible for me to simplify

Reinhard wishes to come back , is brought back.
Reason - World needs him is why his wish is granted
Why world needs him - because of the voices of other people in need of help - for sake of help.

So now as per ur scenario, let's just ignore completely other 2 statements and try to play arnd first statement.
No condition doesn't work like tht.

In this fight he dies and he wishes to come back, but why shld world bring him back ? Is there someone in need of help ? If there is none in need of help, why shld world bring him back ?

The one that needs to learn to read properly is you and establish cause and effect relationship which is heavily based on 3rd party here.

So no I don't need to go and check anything, because it is clear from 3 statements of author that there is a clear relationship established for his resurrection and condition needed for his revival.

And retrospectively, I am also not calling u dumb or ignorant , but u trying to get out of mess u created by hiding deliberately/undeliberately sure is.

Those statements r to be taken in relationship with each other and not just stick convenienty to one because it fits the personal narrative.

Sadly it doesn't have any article on Od Laguna....


For me this match will be decided if Reinhard ia really universe level or not frankly i always thought he was probably around multi continent level before this tournament bur Lambu said he is universal but now i am seeing few users contradicting it.

So really i don't know about this matchup.

Sorry, but I have myself asked him but got no proofs on its effect being outside even earth, the world rewrite claimed by him.

At least there shld be a line on its effects outside earth , solar system to make it universal.

The sword is supposed to oppose God but God in every verse is a very subjective matter. Even kaguya and juubi were called god once and capable of destroying whole world. The blessings and authority = chakra since every chakra possessed by humans come from them.
Ninjutsu ineffective against them = blessings ineffective against authority
Bypass authority = bypass tht ninjutsu restriction and go to so6p senjutsu.
World rewrite = Genjutsu world

It certainly didn't translate to universe, did it now ?

They even had character who actually created moon yet we know how their effect is never outside earth at all.

Where does this universe level Reinhard comes from is beyond my understanding.

 

[Blakestnight666]

Exactly, this raffling up ur feathers that the condition arose from u deliberately hiding tht info or undeliberately and now u r trying to stuck to ur own created interpretation after initially discarding it as a joke which clearly makes the resurrection conditional.

This will be last time I will simplify it because further than this , even impossible for me to simplify

Reinhard wishes to come back , is brought back.
Reason - World needs him is why his wish is granted
Why world needs him - because of the voices of other people in need of help - for sake of help.

So now as per ur scenario, let's just ignore completely other 2 statements and try to play arnd first statement.
No condition doesn't work like tht.

In this fight he dies and he wishes to come back, but why shld world bring him back ? Is there someone in need of help ? If there is none in need of help, why shld world bring him back ?

The one that needs to learn to read properly is you and establish cause and effect relationship which is heavily based on 3rd party here.

So no I don't need to go and check anything, because it is clear from 3 statements of author that there is a clear relationship established for his resurrection and condition needed for his revival.

And retrospectively, I am also not calling u dumb or ignorant , but u trying to get out of mess u created by hiding deliberately/undeliberately sure is.

Those statements r to be taken in relationship with each other and not just stick convenienty to one because it fits the personal narrative.



Sorry, but I have myself asked him but got no proofs on its effect being outside even earth, the world rewrite claimed by him.

At least there shld be a line on its effects outside earth , solar system to make it universal.

The sword is supposed to oppose God but God in every verse is a very subjective matter. Even kaguya and juubi were called god once and capable of destroying whole world. The blessings and authority = chakra since every chakra possessed by humans come from them.
Ninjutsu ineffective against them = blessings ineffective against authority
Bypass authority = bypass tht ninjutsu restriction and go to so6p senjutsu.
World rewrite = Genjutsu world

It certainly didn't translate to universe, did it now ?

They even had character who actually created moon yet we know how their effect is never outside earth at all.

Where does this universe level Reinhard comes from is beyond my understanding.

The universal level Reinhard comes from lambu who thinks that destroying the world a.k.a continent floating in space is equal to destroying the universe.

--- Double Post Merged, May 1, 2021, Original Post Date: May 1, 2021 ---

Thr

It does they just didn't organize it well it's hidden in on the "Terminology" page.

"Od Laguna (オド・ラグナ): The Od Laguna often referred to as the "world" in layman terms it is a storage of mana located at the origin of the world itself. It is where all mana comes from in the world eventually returns to periodically. No one knows where it is located or whether it has a will of its own. It is said that those who awaken to prohibited arts have had their spirits destroyed by looking at it. Some speculate that it is the world's will and gives Divine Protection to people. Its main function is to provide stability to the world & its inhabitants by regulating mana, souls and other aspects of life, while limiting the frequency of natural disasters that occur due to mana running short. Mana flows from Od Laguna to every individual's "Od" , which is connected to it via their gate. How much one receives depends on the size of the gate, e.g the bigger it is the more mana they get, which also affects their aptitude for magic. When mana is expelled from an "Od" through the gate it can be used to either create magic or power objects like Lagmite. Once spent, the residue mana lingers becoming atmospheric mana, which spirits & Spirit Art Users can harness as well as form Lagmite. Eventually, the atmospheric mana returns back to Od Laguna, restarting the cycle again."

Can't vouch for accuracy or anything that's but what it says.

The OD Laguna is present in the re zero continent without a doubt as Reinhard can destroy it. It's never said that it's present in different dimension or not.

--- Double Post Merged, May 1, 2021 ---

Exactly, this raffling up ur feathers that the condition arose from u deliberately hiding tht info or undeliberately and now u r trying to stuck to ur own created interpretation after initially discarding it as a joke which clearly makes the resurrection conditional.

This will be last time I will simplify it because further than this , even impossible for me to simplify

Reinhard wishes to come back , is brought back.
Reason - World needs him is why his wish is granted
Why world needs him - because of the voices of other people in need of help - for sake of help.

So now as per ur scenario, let's just ignore completely other 2 statements and try to play arnd first statement.
No condition doesn't work like tht.

In this fight he dies and he wishes to come back, but why shld world bring him back ? Is there someone in need of help ? If there is none in need of help, why shld world bring him back ?

The one that needs to learn to read properly is you and establish cause and effect relationship which is heavily based on 3rd party here.

So no I don't need to go and check anything, because it is clear from 3 statements of author that there is a clear relationship established for his resurrection and condition needed for his revival.

And retrospectively, I am also not calling u dumb or ignorant , but u trying to get out of mess u created by hiding deliberately/undeliberately sure is.

Those statements r to be taken in relationship with each other and not just stick convenienty to one because it fits the personal narrative.



Sorry, but I have myself asked him but got no proofs on its effect being outside even earth, the world rewrite claimed by him.

At least there shld be a line on its effects outside earth , solar system to make it universal.

The sword is supposed to oppose God but God in every verse is a very subjective matter. Even kaguya and juubi were called god once and capable of destroying whole world. The blessings and authority = chakra since every chakra possessed by humans come from them.
Ninjutsu ineffective against them = blessings ineffective against authority
Bypass authority = bypass tht ninjutsu restriction and go to so6p senjutsu.
World rewrite = Genjutsu world

It certainly didn't translate to universe, did it now ?

They even had character who actually created moon yet we know how their effect is never outside earth at all.

Where does this universe level Reinhard comes from is beyond my understanding.

You can even say that kaguya is multiversal as she can create snd destroy dimensions which has stars, sun and moon.

 

[Sachsenhesse]

If Reinhard would be universelevel, wouldnt he have destroy Od Laguna with it?

 

[Hardy]

man first answer my question. Then i will answer yours.

He never said that

--- Double Post Merged, May 1, 2021 ---

Vegeta literally uses it to teleport. He clearly says that he won't steal goku's technique. He never said that he couldn't use it. Stop twisting things according to your convenience.

Spoiler

He said it himself.

On Tori:

"[For BoG and RoF], I thought up the new story for the next Dragon Ball theatrical film as though it were a continuation of the manga when it was in serialization."

V-jump 2014

--- Double Post Merged, May 1, 2021 ---

If he has a sword that can cut through anything does it matter if it's universal or mountain level btw?

 

[GrySun]

Well these scans prove that lak and sachs are wrong. If you take it in context, he doesn't know how to do it. Tho it reads super convenient how suddenly Goku could be sensed by everyone to pinpoint his location but sure.

Though still, @Lambu can Rein only return from space if thrown in moon direction? Think I read somewhere in the thread that only like that he could return. If he was thrown elsewhere wouldn't it be over?

Though Vegeta probably can't even grab him to throw him so idk. Such a weird match.

 

[Sachsenhesse]

But he did do it... i even provided the panel.... its not like goku ki transported him there, vegeta did it by himself. All he needed was a good push

I really dont know how you can interpret this as "he cant do it", when he literally does it.

 

[Static]

The universal level Reinhard comes from lambu who thinks that destroying the world a.k.a continent floating in space is equal to destroying the universe.

--- Double Post Merged, May 1, 2021, Original Post Date: May 1, 2021 ---

Thr


The OD Laguna is present in the re zero continent without a doubt as Reinhard can destroy it. It's never said that it's present in different dimension or not.

--- Double Post Merged, May 1, 2021 ---

You can even say that kaguya is multiversal as she can create snd destroy dimensions which has stars, sun and moon.

For the umpteenth time lol, the Od Laguna is not a physical object. It is not present physically within the Re Zero landmass or anything like that. Its an entity or object that transcends the space and time of the Re Zero world, given its Hall Of Memories, which is just one part of it, exists in an immaterial space.

If Reinhard would be universelevel, wouldnt he have destroy Od Laguna with it?

In all honesty, unlike Lambu, I'm doubtful whether he actually can destroy it or not. I'm iffy on taking the author's statements at face value considering he's known for trolling a lot in Q/As and interviews.

Well these scans prove that lak and sachs are wrong. If you take it in context, he doesn't know how to do it. Tho it reads super convenient how suddenly Goku could be sensed by everyone to pinpoint his location but sure.

Though still, @Lambu can Rein only return from space if thrown in moon direction? Think I read somewhere in the thread that only like that he could return. If he was thrown elsewhere wouldn't it be over?

Though Vegeta probably can't even grab him to throw him so idk. Such a weird match.

Regulus threw him into space during their fight and Reinhard did say he could not return had Regulus not thrown him towards the moon. Whether that was Reinhard just underestimating himself / being humble as usual or not, that's open to interpretation imo.

Spoiler

He said it himself.

On Tori:

"[For BoG and RoF], I thought up the new story for the next Dragon Ball theatrical film as though it were a continuation of the manga when it was in serialization."

V-jump 2014

Congratulations you upgraded from clown to the whole circus

--- Double Post Merged, May 1, 2021 ---

If he has a sword that can cut through anything does it matter if it's universal or mountain level btw?

The Dragon Sword probably has a limit with regards to its conceptual erasure. If it was capable of cutting absolutely anything, then Reid (the first Sword Saint who the sword is named after) would have been able to cut through Satella's immortality and defeat her but he couldn't so it does have its limits.

 

[Sachsenhesse]

Cant you guys stay civil?

 

[Blakestnight666]

For the umpteenth time lol, the Od Laguna is not a physical object. It is not present physically within the Re Zero landmass or anything like that. Its an entity or object that transcends the space and time of the Re Zero world, given its Hall Of Memories, which is just one part of it, exists in an immaterial space.



In all honesty, unlike Lambu, I'm doubtful whether he actually can destroy it or not. I'm iffy on taking the author's statements at face value considering he's known for trolling a lot in Q/As and interviews.



Regulus threw him into space during their fight and Reinhard did say he could not return had Regulus not thrown him towards the moon. Whether that was Reinhard just underestimating himself / being humble as usual or not, that's open to interpretation imo.


The Dragon Sword probably has a limit with regards to its conceptual erasure. If it was capable of cutting absolutely anything, then Reid (the first Sword Saint who the sword is named after) would have been able to cut through Satella's immortality and defeat her but he couldn't so it does have its limits.

I mean do you have some scans or posts that says od Laguna transcends space and time

--- Double Post Merged, May 1, 2021, Original Post Date: May 1, 2021 ---

Cant you guys stay civil?

Nah i ain't planning to be Civil to that guy anymore. Has been calling me clown for quite some times Now

--- Double Post Merged, May 1, 2021 ---

The fuck why is my post deleted?? The guy has been calling me names and when i call him my posts get deleted. The fuck

 

[Static]

I mean do you have some scans or posts that says od Laguna transcends space and time

--- Double Post Merged, May 1, 2021, Original Post Date: May 1, 2021 ---

Nah i ain't planning to be Civil to that guy anymore. Has been calling me clown for quite some times Now

There is no explicit statement from the novels but we can infer that from the fact that the Hall Of Memories (which like I said before, is a part of Od Laguna) is not affected by Return By Death. You already know this, but just to explain to others who haven't watched the show or read the novel, Return By Death is an ability the protagonist of the story has which allows him to reset the world every time he dies. So every time that he dies, he reverses the whole world's time or he possibly creates a new alternate timeline. The Hall Of Memories is an isolated dimension where the memories of every single person is recorded from the moment of their birth to their death in the form of the Books Of The Dead. It has records of all of Subaru's deaths that have occurred so far, which directly shows that it isn't affected by the reversal of the world's time or the creation of a new one.

 

[Marmalade]

A reminder for everyone to please do keep it civil in this thread.
It's understandable that things get heated during discussions from time to time, but tone it down.
Forum rules still apply here!

​

 

[Blakestnight666]

There is no explicit statement from the novels but we can infer that from the fact that the Hall Of Memories (which like I said before, is a part of Od Laguna) is not affected by Return By Death. You already know this, but just to explain to others who haven't watched the show or read the novel, Return By Death is an ability the protagonist of the story has which allows him to reset the world every time he dies. So every time that he dies, he reverses the whole world's time or he possibly creates a new alternate timeline. The Hall Of Memories is an isolated dimension where the memories of every single person is recorded from the moment of their birth to their death in the form of the Books Of The Dead. It has records of all of Subaru's deaths that have occurred so far, which directly shows that it isn't affected by the reversal of the world's time or the creation of a new one.

I have searched something but i haven't seen any information on hall of memories. Mind posting some scans. And how is Od Laguna even related to hall of memories. Please post some scans