Society Religious Discussion and Q&A Thread

[M3J]

Irony here is that nearly every country has been created and made into what it was because of immigrants, which North America is a great example of. I doubt Europe would have been as big if people didn't migrate from Africa to Europe (assuming evolution and origins of humans are true). I think people just feel threatened that their jobs are being taken and livelihood possibly changing. I mean, tons of Americans are getting mad at how immigrants aren't learning English or something.

 

[shaheer]

LOL you will find these kind of people who wants to deport every one from the place they live in every were akhi. I met a guy from KKK he was saying brown and black should be deported from USA i was like what the hell are you talking about what about you guys? Strictly speaking you are not a native either native americans are lol. Living shouldnt be based on pigment or ethnicity.
In England there is a grp called EDL as far as i know they are Islamophobic (since i havent been there i know from my relatives who lives there so i am not the best person to ask question about them). They try to force Islam out of England.

---------- Post added at 11:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:15 AM ----------

Well so far we(me and other muslims like Dark Lord and Silver Soul) have been talking with people who have heard we have the book called Quran but i dun think most of the guys here understand how we read Quran or the stuff that some of us memorize the whole text and more importantly why we say we recite Quran and not read it. This vid is by one of my fav Imam recitation to be more precise my second favorite. Its arabic ofcourse as its Quran, I dont know whether or not you guys have seen us pray or heard recitation but the sheikh is reciting one chapter called Surah Noor in the Salah(our Prayer) from his memory.

​

 

[Buffynut]

People fear unknown's anyways, and unknowns that conflict with their known knowns...it's a recipe for disaster.

That's the challenging thing with religion. The faithful are faithful for a reason, and people who think differently find it hard to understand. But I think it's possible. I see it happen every day. Humans should just try better to collectively stop destroying the planet we all live on now. Seems it might be more productive than destroying each other.

I mean, it's like grade school. You don't have to like one another, but keep your hands to yourself. I realize it's not always that simple, but the concept itself is not that complicated.

 

[M3J]

KKK is full of bigots though, they hate anything unlike themselves.


I think people fear the unknown that conflicts with their beliefs more. Those who believe in god tend to deny any proof that he doesn't exist just because they want to keep believing in heaven or not be punished by god. I think it's all selfish reasons.

 

[Buffynut]

KKK is full of bigots though, they hate anything unlike themselves.


I think people fear the unknown that conflicts with their beliefs more. Those who believe in god tend to deny any proof that he doesn't exist just because they want to keep believing in heaven or not be punished by god. I think it's all selfish reasons.

You make a valid point. I would agree it's selfish, but it doesn't make me angry they want to believe those things. As long as they don't harm other people in the process, because it's never acceptable to put your will over another, especially if it's harmful in nature.

That's why philosophy is an important study. People like Kant, his writings teach people how to reason through ethical issues, regardless of religion. Do no harm, help those that need it most, it all makes sense. But it's a study that isn't taught, because powerful people don't want a mass of critical thinkers. They want obedient workers, so such concepts are only found by the few that get lucky enough to land at a good university. And even then, the percentage that utilizes such information is not enough to compensate.

 

[M3J]

I agree. Although to be honest, I personally think that majority of the religious people are selfish, praying or doing whatever to look better in front of god and get to heaven. If hell wasn't shown as bad as it is, then people might not be as devout as they claim to be.

And philosophy doesn't help many people, at least in their opinions. They believe god will, whether it's to "pray that victim gets better" or "I'ma pray so I don't go to hell" or something.

 

[Buffynut]

Well that's their choice. And all of us our selfish. Some just show restraint better than others. But I agree with you my friend. The only thing I believe, honestly, is that I don't know. Any of it could be true, none of it. I couldn't tell you. I do know that all we can do is be the best people we can be. Be accountable, and never stop questioning. I'm not one who thinks caring is weakness. I'm one that thinks it's all we have left. It's all we have left going for our kind. The ability to care and to reason.

 

[M3J]

To be honest, I think we should just live our lives in a way we want that doesn't hurt anyone. I don't believe in god, religion, afterlife, or whatnot. I do believe in living life as it should be lived, though, but it's a shame others don't believe that. They'd rather take the easy way around by praying, whether to heaven or for success.

Shame we became so advanced.

 

[Buffynut]

To be honest, I think we should just live our lives in a way we want that doesn't hurt anyone. I don't believe in god, religion, afterlife, or whatnot. I do believe in living life as it should be lived, though, but it's a shame others don't believe that. They'd rather take the easy way around by praying, whether to heaven or for success.

Shame we became so advanced.

Yes. It kind of is.

 

[shaheer]

That's why philosophy is an important study. People like Kant, his writings teach people how to reason through ethical issues, regardless of religion. Do no harm, help those that need it most, it all makes sense. But it's a study that isn't taught, because powerful people don't want a mass of critical thinkers. They want obedient workers, so such concepts are only found by the few that get lucky enough to land at a good university. And even then, the percentage that utilizes such information is not enough to compensate.

To be honest i dont really think Catagorical Imeretive is a valid solution to be honest. The whole premise of lying is bad or helping is Good evades the basic question of why something is Good and why something is bad. Kantenian Hypothesis of his Antimonies argues against God but his catagorical Imperetive proposes moral obligation. I find that to be really mismatched.

As for Religious people being selfish well i would say similar things can apply for atheist. Most of the moral landscape for atheistic paradigm revolves around evolutionary advantage ie you become altruistic just to get into someones pants/skirts. Which is not just repugnant in my eyes but is also selfish in the sense that its not for helping others rather its about getting a better ground in propagating DNA.
Moral Obligations never is one sided for religious people its about pleasing God for Atheist its about propagation of DNA. Now if some one argues that there is no Moral obligation then its a different thing entirely. But since Kant and catagorical imperetative was brought so i concentrated in Obligation part

 

[M3J]

I'm not sure if atheists use that reason to get into people's pants. Moral obligation comes from trying to please god to get into heaven or be treated well after death though.

Atheism isn't about propagation of DNA, it's about living without god or religion. I don't know where you got that from. I'm not gonna lie, I do believe in that, but it doesn't mean I'll knock up women just to spread my DNA around. Ethics prevent me from doing that. That's like me saying every religious people are selfish like that.

And I don't think atheists can claim to be selfless either. Humans are selfish, but it seems religious people fear or obey god solely due to wanting to get in heaven or at least, avoid hell. This is what I've guessed at based on responses of so many people, even if they have denied it.

 

[shaheer]

I'm not sure if atheists use that reason to get into people's pants. Moral obligation comes from trying to please god to get into heaven or be treated well after death though.

Atheism isn't about propagation of DNA, it's about living without god or religion. I don't know where you got that from. I'm not gonna lie, I do believe in that, but it doesn't mean I'll knock up women just to spread my DNA around. Ethics prevent me from doing that. That's like me saying every religious people are selfish like that.

And I don't think atheists can claim to be selfless either. Humans are selfish, but it seems religious people fear or obey god solely due to wanting to get in heaven or at least, avoid hell. This is what I've guessed at based on responses of so many people, even if they have denied it.

i am not saying Atheism is about propagation of DNA what i said is when the topic of Moral Obligation comes into discussion Believers use God to establish moral obligation Atheists use Evolution to do that.

---------- Post added at 01:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:09 PM ----------

and i didnt bring moral obligation some one brought Catagorical Imperative

 

[M3J]

I don't think atheists use evolution to excuse anything. I certainly haven't met any atheist that does that, anyway. If they do, then that's probably a cop-out excuse for them to cheat. It's like how Christians, Catholics, or whatnot use the Bible to justify hating the gays or I think the blacks.

All in all though, I get annoyed whenever an atheist or religious person acts like a douche. Gets annoying to have a friendly debate with them.

Funny thing is, I read some female pornstars' bio on Wikipedia, and it seems many of them come from a strict family or family with strong religious backgrounds. Looks like restriction is a horrible thing. I'm not sure if any of them are atheist though.

 

[Buffynut]

You got me thinking here Shaheer. The wheels in the brain are a spinning.

---------- Post added at 03:07 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:03 PM ----------

You too M3...I agree. I'm intolerant of douche-canoes too.

 

[M3J]

Thinking is quite a double edged sword. It can cause problems, and it can fix problems. It can exacerbate problems or reduce problems. Whether a religious person or an atheist or agnostic or whoever thinks, it can go either way.


From what I glanced at in Daily News, the pope seems to have resigned because of homosexual relationships with male prostitutes. I don't know if this is true though, I don't remember reading the reason why elsewhere, nor have the other newspapers mentioned it. Maybe they will in the Sunday edition? But not shocking if that's true.

 

[shaheer]

I don't think atheists use evolution to excuse anything. I certainly haven't met any atheist that does that, anyway. If they do, then that's probably a cop-out excuse for them to cheat. It's like how Christians, Catholics, or whatnot use the Bible to justify hating the gays or I think the blacks.

i think you are not geting my point about morality, but then agian you didnt bring this topic, in short Truth must correspond to reality and logic. Now if catagorical imperetive is true then what reality or logic does it corrospond to? Kantian thesis argued against Gods existance (though its refutable but lets stick to it for a moment). So if Gods existance is argued out how can a Obligation in morality be impended? Is and Ought are two different things, for example : it IS wrong to lie and DONT lie because its wrong to lie are 2 different things.
For something to be and 'ought' something transcendental must exist. For theist like me its God for atheist its evolution.
I dont think i can make myself more clear though so i m sorry if it wasnt good enough to tell you what i am trying to mean.

Funny thing is, I read some female pornstars' bio on Wikipedia, and it seems many of them come from a strict family or family with strong religious backgrounds. Looks like restriction is a horrible thing. I'm not sure if any of them are atheist though.

Seriously? lool i dont watch pron or search about them but this is a hilarious find lol

---------- Post added at 10:33 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:28 AM ----------

You got me thinking here Shaheer. The wheels in the brain are a spinning.

Let me know when you are finished

Spoiler

Joking

 

[M3J]

i think you are not geting my point about morality, but then agian you didnt bring this topic, in short Truth must correspond to reality and logic. Now if catagorical imperetive is true then what reality or logic does it corrospond to? Kantian thesis argued against Gods existance (though its refutable but lets stick to it for a moment). So if Gods existance is argued out how can a Obligation in morality be impended? Is and Ought are two different things, for example : it IS wrong to lie and DONT lie because its wrong to lie are 2 different things.
For something to be and 'ought' something transcendental must exist. For theist like me its God for atheist its evolution.
I dont think i can make myself more clear though so i m sorry if it wasnt good enough to tell you what i am trying to mean.

Like I said though, truth is subjective. Reality and logic is based on what one sees, thinks, and understands. I don't think there's such thing as the ultimate truth, other than universe being vast. God's existence is not definite, neither is evolution, Big Bang, and anything else no matter what evidence is shown.

Although I believe in evolution and natural selection, I don't base my morals/ethics or decisions on that. I live life the way it should be lived, in my opinion: for the lulz. I think we probably come at an impasse here, as my ideas would differ quite a bit from yours.

And I've been told I have quite a different view on tons of stuff. X_x

Seriously? lool i dont watch pron or search about them but this is a hilarious find lol

Procrastination is a horrible thing. But yeah, it's true. I'm not sure how many this is true for, but it's certainly true for at least very few of 'em.

Even further reinforces the idea that we shouldn't raise kids in a strict environment. Give them freedom, but give them knowledge as well, along with crutch or support. Kids or teenagers won't always listen to you, so you do more damage by not informing them.

Instead of sayin "you're not allowed to have sex!," just talk to them and tell them how to be safe. My main issue with religions is that it tends to avoid topics like this and considers it immortal instead of tackling it. The lack of knowledge is the main culprit, but people are happy to keep it that way with kids and teenagers when information would help them be in a better situation.

 

[shaheer]

Like I said though, truth is subjective. Reality and logic is based on what one sees, thinks, and understands. I don't think there's such thing as the ultimate truth, other than universe being vast. God's existence is not definite, neither is evolution, Big Bang, and anything else no matter what evidence is shown.

Although I believe in evolution and natural selection, I don't base my morals/ethics or decisions on that. I live life the way it should be lived, in my opinion: for the lulz. I think we probably come at an impasse here, as my ideas would differ quite a bit from yours.

And I've been told I have quite a different view on tons of stuff. X_x

I see where it went wrong, i wasnt talking about moral subjectivity and objectivity i was talking about catagorical imperetive and was pointing its flaws.
Any way lets drop this topic we are talking about apples and oranges here.

Instead of sayin "you're not allowed to have sex!," just talk to them and tell them how to be safe. My main issue with religions is that it tends to avoid topics like this and considers it immortal instead of tackling it.

Religion does adress these topic but it mainly considers premaritial relation to be immoral.

 

[M3J]

how does it address the topics? Accordin to pope, no condom or pills allowed. Might as well just tell them unprotected sex is healthy.

 

[shaheer]

how does it address the topics? Accordin to pope, no condom or pills allowed. Might as well just tell them unprotected sex is healthy.

when did i say i am christian or catholic to begin with?