Well as I said earlier our religious books say that the ultimate being created Hinduism.
And frankly my personal opinion is we don't need focus on creator.And mind it Hinduism states that it is a way of life,there is no human who had created it.
And regarding Moksha part,you were right but it doesn't state that need Brahman before you attain salvation.If one follows the true path,one will attain salvation.
Really? I could've sworn it was more like that where you're constantly reincarnated until you become a Brahman.
Either way, thanks for the clarification.
This also brings up a trivial question as well: what are some noticeable differences between Hinduism and Buddhism? As far as I can remember, Buddhism has similarities, including terms that are interchangeable, but that Buddhism focuses on Siddhartha's teachings, rather than Karma.
As far as I'm concerned, the main point of Religion (and the one thing that every Religion has in common) is to achieve the Ultimate Realm. Doesn't matter how you look at it from a different angle: Hindus and Buddhists wishes to break apart from Samsara, Norse's goal is to reach Valhalla, and the Abrahamic Faiths (Christianity, Islam, Judaism) achieving heaven.
Unfortunately, this mostly works in theory and messy in practice. The biggest problem about Religion as a whole is its shroud of mysteries. For example, Hinduism being the oldest and active religion in human history has yet to unfold who is the founder (or if there ever was a founder). Why is it the case for the third largest religion in the world? At least with many other religions, there are known founders such as Siddhartha of Buddhism and Jesus of Christianity.
There are also other mysteries as well such as Moses and Jesus having powers, but I'll leave it at that.
Another major issue is that Religion can be used for manipulation and it being extremely "traditional": the caste system in Hinduism is really the religious version of a Social Status, with Dalit being the lowest of the lowest. Abrahamic faiths believing how they should treat non-believers or how they handle "crimes" such as homosexuality or adultery (yet in many of their texts, they agree that rape is acceptable if it's towards a non-believer, preferably a slave).
The sad part here is that I'm not even some atheist who says stupid shit like "ReLiGiOn Is BuLlShIt!"; I'm a Muslim that used to be some apologist when it comes to tragic incidents. In today's standard, I guess I fall under the category of a "Liberal Muslim".
Main point of religion is to control people by introducing sin and instilling fear of Hell in them. Note how pastors, ministers, the Bible, Qu'ran, and imams talk about doing things JEsus, Mohammad, or whatnot want you to do, and if you don't pray to them or to God/Allah/Vishnu, you go to Hell.
And given what I know about Hindus in India, this seems strongly to be the case as well - to control. Caste system you mentioned is a good example as well.
Well in Hinduism we don't focus on creator.It is said in our holy books like Upanishada and Vedas that Hinduism originated from Brahma(the ultimate being in all universes) or Trimurti or Adi Shakti herself.
Historically Hinduism originated among the Aryans who spread throughout Asia and Europe.When Aryans came to India,their religion mixed with Indus Valley civilization and formed the current version of Hinduism.
Main focus of Hinduism is on Karma to do good deeds and gain moksha or "Salvation".
Really? I could've sworn it was more like that where you're constantly reincarnated until you become a Brahman.
Either way, thanks for the clarification.
This also brings up a trivial question as well: what are some noticeable differences between Hinduism and Buddhism? As far as I can remember, Buddhism has similarities, including terms that are interchangeable, but that Buddhism focuses on Siddhartha's teachings, rather than Karma.
Main point of religion is to control people by introducing sin and instilling fear of Hell in them. Note how pastors, ministers, the Bible, Qu'ran, and imams talk about doing things JEsus, Mohammad, or whatnot want you to do, and if you don't pray to them or to God/Allah/Vishnu, you go to Hell.
And given what I know about Hindus in India, this seems strongly to be the case as well - to control. Caste system you mentioned is a good example as well.
Main point of religion is to control people by introducing sin and instilling fear of Hell in them. Note how pastors, ministers, the Bible, Qu'ran, and imams talk about doing things JEsus, Mohammad, or whatnot want you to do, and if you don't pray to them or to God/Allah/Vishnu, you go to Hell.
And given what I know about Hindus in India, this seems strongly to be the case as well - to control. Caste system you mentioned is a good example as well.
I think all religions at its core are trying to better oneself and others - a path to peace and being better than human. However people are flawed and will make mistakes; thus a need to better onself and others making this a cycle. There is corruption in all forms but that is because the leaders are humans who aren't perfect and have inner demons. By understanding humans and their behaviour one can see we are far from the perfection we seek, including those who follow their faith. Religion isn't evil, humans are but humans are also capable of doing good.
Main point of religion is to control people by introducing sin and instilling fear of Hell in them. Note how pastors, ministers, the Bible, Qu'ran, and imams talk about doing things JEsus, Mohammad, or whatnot want you to do, and if you don't pray to them or to God/Allah/Vishnu, you go to Hell.
And given what I know about Hindus in India, this seems strongly to be the case as well - to control. Caste system you mentioned is a good example as well.
That can be a problem, yes, but at least it's not a major/primary problem that results in global-scale conflicts had the Pope have military authority or the Caliphate system remained active.
Imagine that with the population today, it would theoretically exceed World War 2 in terms of deadliest conflict.
As far as I'm aware of, it's less about what the prophets and other iconic religious figures wants you to do, and more about their teachings and moral of the stories. That isn't to say that there aren't people out there who're willing to claim that they want you to do these behaviors, especially when there are people who're doing the opposite of what they were taught.
I think all religions at its core are trying to better oneself and others - a path to peace and being better than human. However people are flawed and will make mistakes; thus a need to better onself and others making this a cycle. There is corruption in all forms but that is because the leaders are humans who aren't perfect and have inner demons. By understanding humans and their behaviour one can see we are far from the perfection we seek, including those who follow their faith. Religion isn't evil, humans are but humans are also capable of doing good.
Although you're not wrong with your statement, you did disclosed the main problem about religion: humans.
Religion doesn't function well because of humans, so why, in the minds of the irreligious, must humans cherish it?
Looks like the only path would be to listen to a book and in some cases, a religious authority or five. And usually the main way is to listen to the Commandments and the book, otherwise off to hell you go no matter how you behave.
Same Hindus who are misogynistic despite having so many female goddesses? Same Hindus who commit acts of terrorism and are violent towards Muslims and others? A lot of what they do isn't a service to man.
It's a pretty significant problem, especially when Dalits can't rise in society, and people from different caste or religion marrying get stopped or killed for doing so.
I think all religions at its core are trying to better oneself and others - a path to peace and being better than human. However people are flawed and will make mistakes; thus a need to better onself and others making this a cycle. There is corruption in all forms but that is because the leaders are humans who aren't perfect and have inner demons. By understanding humans and their behaviour one can see we are far from the perfection we seek, including those who follow their faith. Religion isn't evil, humans are but humans are also capable of doing good.
Honestly, I'd have to disagree with that. It does look like religions are evolving into aiming to better oneself rather than force followers to adhere to set rules out of fear of Hell.
And while humans are capable of doing good, it's the evil ones that tend to cause more damage.
Looks like the only path would be to listen to a book and in some cases, a religious authority or five. And usually the main way is to listen to the Commandments and the book, otherwise off to hell you go no matter how you behave.
Same Hindus who are misogynistic despite having so many female goddesses? Same Hindus who commit acts of terrorism and are violent towards Muslims and others? A lot of what they do isn't a service to man.
It's a pretty significant problem, especially when Dalits can't rise in society, and people from different caste or religion marrying get stopped or killed for doing so.
Honestly, I'd have to disagree with that. It does look like religions are evolving into aiming to better oneself rather than force followers to adhere to set rules out of fear of Hell.
And while humans are capable of doing good, it's the evil ones that tend to cause more damage.
But do people take note of the good in the world? I would say most people do good things than those that do bad. It's like the evil is a reminder that human capability.
I know some people who are hardcore Christians who use fear but also who don't. It's my experience that those that use fear tactics are just using that as a mask for their own fears. Kind of like those that aren't religious. If we strip away a person's label to his/her faith or lack of it one can see that everyone is the same. However, it's because of faith they believe humans can find redemption from all the evil and to lead them in the right direction. Even those that are cruel can find forgiveness if they feel remorse because after all how can one judge a person when humans are all flawed?
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I guess what I am trying to say is the "us" vs "them" on any side is fallacious because everyone has fears, jealousy or"evil" but also "good".
Same Hindus who are misogynistic despite having so many female goddesses? Same Hindus who commit acts of terrorism and are violent towards Muslims and others? A lot of what they do isn't a service to man.
It's a pretty significant problem, especially when Dalits can't rise in society, and people from different caste or religion marrying get stopped or killed for doing so.
Isn't this a highly stereotypical view?I mean I admit there are problems like you mentioned but it is only a section of Hindus.You are making it look like that all Hindus do this.
In original Hindu texts it is said every person have god within them and so are equal.But later few vested interests put caste issues for political and economic domination.
Original Aryan society was castles and probably classless as well.
Ultimately it depends upon the individual.
Every Religion has good and bad people.
We cannot generalise basing on one group of people.
But do people take note of the good in the world? I would say most people do good things than those that do bad. It's like the evil is a reminder that human capability.
I know some people who are hardcore Christians who use fear but also who don't. It's my experience that those that use fear tactics are just using that as a mask for their own fears. Kind of like those that aren't religious. If we strip away a person's label to his/her faith or lack of it one can see that everyone is the same. However, it's because of faith they believe humans can find redemption from all the evil and to lead them in the right direction. Even those that are cruel can find forgiveness if they feel remorse because after all how can one judge a person when humans are all flawed?
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I guess what I am trying to say is the "us" vs "them" on any side is fallacious because everyone has fears, jealousy or"evil" but also "good".
I honestly don't know, but I'm assuming people do, but the ones who note the negative or are negative are much louder. Hence, why it TO ME looks like there are more bad or more people take more note of the bad.
That is true as well, and they also use fear tactics to get what they want, whether it's hardcore Christians wanting US their way (no homosexuality for example) or hardcore Muslims wanting women to be completely submissive. Though on that note, perfect example of what you're talking about is when Taliban militants shot Malala to scare girls away from getting an education, but they were scared that educated women would mean the downfall of rock-solid patriarchy, just as how women in US fought for and started getting more and more rights over the years and decades.
but I don't think it's because they want humans to find redemption and to go in the right direction, but more because they want to control and be seen as the authority. A lot of pastors who talk about Hell and use fear tactics to get people to be pious likely do so to keep the population in control, and probably so their chances of getting into Heaven are higher. Plus, they also want people to live the way they want, and the Bible and fear would provide that way.
Ego tends to play a part, as well as society expectations. For example, you believe in sex after marriage and think any woman who has sex before marriage is a whore. As result, you judge other women and feel better about yourself because you adhered to societal rules while these women haven't, but they also know freedom to a degree that you haven't experienced, so there's some jealousy underneath as well. It's not hard to judge anyone, and it's actually okay. What's hard is ignoring our initial judgment and not acting upon it - like instead of slutshaming the girl who had sex before she got married, you talk to her and even become friends with her because after spending time with her, you find out she's a great woman.
It's also about choices. People do have propensity to do good, but if they actively make choices to do bad, and the only reason for doing good is for gains, then that doesn't really make them good.
I honestly have no idea if I'm making sense here because I feel like I'm not sticking to a topic.
Isn't this a highly stereotypical view?I mean I admit there are problems like you mentioned but it is only a section of Hindus.You are making it look like that all Hindus do this.
In original Hindu texts it is said every person have god within them and so are equal.But later few vested interests put caste issues for political and economic domination.
Original Aryan society was castles and probably classless as well.
Ultimately it depends upon the individual.
Every Religion has good and bad people.
We cannot generalise basing on one group of people.
I'm not disagreeing with you, but the point is that despite the books and "word of God," it still hasn't stopped a mass of people from doing horrible things or believing in horrible things. Jesus preaches love, tolerance, and acceptance, but individuals use Christianity as an excuse to be homophobic. No doubt religion can be good and has been used for good things, but ultimately it has also been used for bad things and prevents progress.
I honestly don't know, but I'm assuming people do, but the ones who note the negative or are negative are much louder. Hence, why it TO ME looks like there are more bad or more people take more note of the bad.
That is true as well, and they also use fear tactics to get what they want, whether it's hardcore Christians wanting US their way (no homosexuality for example) or hardcore Muslims wanting women to be completely submissive. Though on that note, perfect example of what you're talking about is when Taliban militants shot Malala to scare girls away from getting an education, but they were scared that educated women would mean the downfall of rock-solid patriarchy, just as how women in US fought for and started getting more and more rights over the years and decades.
but I don't think it's because they want humans to find redemption and to go in the right direction, but more because they want to control and be seen as the authority. A lot of pastors who talk about Hell and use fear tactics to get people to be pious likely do so to keep the population in control, and probably so their chances of getting into Heaven are higher. Plus, they also want people to live the way they want, and the Bible and fear would provide that way.
Ego tends to play a part, as well as society expectations. For example, you believe in sex after marriage and think any woman who has sex before marriage is a whore. As result, you judge other women and feel better about yourself because you adhered to societal rules while these women haven't, but they also know freedom to a degree that you haven't experienced, so there's some jealousy underneath as well. It's not hard to judge anyone, and it's actually okay. What's hard is ignoring our initial judgment and not acting upon it - like instead of slutshaming the girl who had sex before she got married, you talk to her and even become friends with her because after spending time with her, you find out she's a great woman.
It's also about choices. People do have propensity to do good, but if they actively make choices to do bad, and the only reason for doing good is for gains, then that doesn't really make them good.
I honestly have no idea if I'm making sense here because I feel like I'm not sticking to a topic.
It is if I say all Hindus are the same.
I'm not disagreeing with you, but the point is that despite the books and "word of God," it still hasn't stopped a mass of people from doing horrible things or believing in horrible things. Jesus preaches love, tolerance, and acceptance, but individuals use Christianity as an excuse to be homophobic. No doubt religion can be good and has been used for good things, but ultimately it has also been used for bad things and prevents progress.
You're just showing an example of few who have their religion wrong. Not every religious person is like that because think of all the religious people in the world and if they were all like that, wouldn't the world be a lot worse? Yes there are people who take things out of context and use religion as an excuse but there are also Atheists who aren't very good people too. Doing horrible things is a human problem not set to those who believe or don't believe in a deity. Just because 3 out of 10 religious people aren't good people doesn't mean that religion is bad. It's the context that should be argued not the people because people are flawed.
I don't know how many religious people take and twist their religious teachings the wrong way, but it seems a lot of them do, and a lot of them are in high positions as well. I know, and there was even an atheist who shot three young Muslim adults in execution style, and people actually have the nerve to suggest it's over a parking dispute. But again, one main problem is that people hide behind their religion in an attempt to justify their behavior or thoughts.
I don't know how many religious people take and twist their religious teachings the wrong way, but it seems a lot of them do, and a lot of them are in high positions as well. I know, and there was even an atheist who shot three young Muslim adults in execution style, and people actually have the nerve to suggest it's over a parking dispute. But again, one main problem is that people hide behind their religion in an attempt to justify their behavior or thoughts.
That's because religions are inherently supposed to be the good and the best way to live life. So, the good they do shouldn't and typically doesn't come as a surprise or come off as noteworthy on a smallscale, but a person doing wrong, saying they did it for this god and this religion, probably going against some of the teachings of the very religion they're supposed to be representing?... THAT'S going to get talked about a lot more. If evil were the norm, then we'd hear more about the good being done, but that's just not the case for most major religions or our world in general.
"Some people of 'Ukl or 'Uraina tribe came to Medina and its climate did not suit them. So the Prophet ordered them to go to the herd of (Milch) camels and to drink their milk and urine (as a medicine). So they went as directed and after they became healthy, they killed the shepherd of the Prophet and drove away all the camels. The news reached the Prophet early in the morning and he sent (men) in their pursuit and they were captured and brought at noon. He then ordered to cut their hands and feet (and it was done), and their eyes were branded with heated pieces of iron, They were put in 'Al-Harra' and when they asked for water, no water was given to them." Abu Qilaba said, "Those people committed theft and murder, became infidels after embracing Islam and fought against Allah and His Apostle . (Sahih Bukhari, Ablutions (Wudu'), Volume 1, Book 4, Number 234)"
That's because religions are inherently supposed to good and the best way to live life. So, the good they do shouldn't and typically doesn't come as a surprise or come off as noteworthy on a smallscale, but a person doing wrong, saying they did it for this god and this religion, probably going against some of the teachings of the very religion they're supposed to be representing?... THAT'S going to get talked about a lot more. If evil were the norm, then we'd hear more about the good being done, but that's just not the case for most major religions or our world in general.
No, they're meant to control people, and the whole concept of higher powers came from the elders making up stories to explain stuff like the sun and why moon appears at night, so they didn't lose face. Says a lot when we have written texts of how preachers used fear to keep their masses devout and pious. I'm not sure if they are going against the religion, given most of them like Christianity frown upon homosexuality and the likes. And a lot of those people preaching about their religion and shit are also the same ones that go against the teachings.
No, they're meant to control people, and the whole concept of higher powers came from the elders making up stories to explain stuff like the sun and why moon appears at night, so they didn't lose face. Says a lot when we have written texts of how preachers used fear to keep their masses devout and pious. I'm not sure if they are going against the religion, given most of them like Christianity frown upon homosexuality and the likes. And a lot of those people preaching about their religion and shit are also the same ones that go against the teachings.
I'm not debating the "REAL" reason why each religion is a thing. I'm talking about what most religions sell themselves as; the best way to live life. Since this is how they sell themselves, it makes the inconsistencies or evil acts like the ones you're mentioning for the narrative you're pushing all the easier and all the more enticing to point out.
However, yeah, there were, are, and will continue to be corruption in the world. That much is certain.
No, they're meant to control people, and the whole concept of higher powers came from the elders making up stories to explain stuff like the sun and why moon appears at night, so they didn't lose face. Says a lot when we have written texts of how preachers used fear to keep their masses devout and pious. I'm not sure if they are going against the religion, given most of them like Christianity frown upon homosexuality and the likes. And a lot of those people preaching about their religion and shit are also the same ones that go against the teachings.
I'm Christian and have friends and family of diverse sexualities. I've even gone to the Pride festival and I sometimes visit the LGBT village because I don't see a problem with two adults who love each other. Not everyone is like the Westboro Baptist Church. When I was in elementary school I was called names for going to church and having a religious family. It offends me that people think all Christians are crazies who think we think we are high and mighty and cast out those that aren't us, especially when I was a treated differently for being different. It's ignorant to think Christians are homophobic when the real issue is there are people, religious or not, who are just afraid of those who are different because they don't understand nor do they want to. If everyone was open to others and didn't take their identity in whatever higher power or don't believe in a higher power as face value, there would be a lot of peace, which I think it's a basis for religion.
If it was just as a means of control, why do people practise still their faith? By that logic no one would in this day in age of scientific discoveries and knowledge wouldn't be but they still do? Why do people practise their faith if it's like what you say? I do because I take it as a tool to better myself and others, which I think most people do. I'm not controlled nor am I brainwashed. I'm educated and am skeptical. If it was just as control then it would have died a long time ago.
If it was just as a means of control, why do people practise still their faith? By that logic no one would in this day in age of scientific discoveries and knowledge wouldn't be but they still do? Why do people practise their faith if it's like what you say? I do because I take it as a tool to better myself and others, which I think most people do. I'm not controlled nor am I brainwashed. I'm educated and am skeptical. If it was just as control then it would have died a long time ago.
Never underestimate the power of indoctrination, specially at young age.
I'm of Catholic formation (like 95% of all my Mexican brothers) but I stop believing the moment I start to question; probably around 10 years old. Nowadays I'm 34, a scientist, and probably the biggest atheist you'll ever known... and sometimes I surprise myself making a crux sign with a pill before taking it (a tradition inculcated in my childhood). It makes no sense but at some point it became a reflex act.
Never underestimate the power of indoctrination, specially at young age.
I'm of Catholic formation (like 95% of all my Mexican brothers) but I stop believing the moment I start to question; probably around 10 years old. Nowadays I'm 34, a scientist, and probably the biggest atheist you'll ever known... and sometimes I surprise myself making a crux sign with a pill before taking it (a tradition inculcated in my childhood). It makes no sense but at some point it became a reflex act.
Questioning is good. My childhood church had some hardcore people that I don't agree with and will never see eye to eye but to me I could never see eye to eye with Athiests. I learned that everyone has their own beliefs that are unique but everyone believes in a better world that is peaceful. Well, most people....
It's like those that are vegans and those that eat meat: no one wants views forced on them although there are some that are vocal. However, that vocal represents a few
I'm not debating the "REAL" reason why each religion is a thing. I'm talking about what most religions sell themselves as; the best way to live life. Since this is how they sell themselves, it makes the inconsistencies or evil acts like the ones you're mentioning for the narrative you're pushing all the easier and all the more enticing to point out.
However, yeah, there were, are, and will continue to be corruption in the world. That much is certain.
But I'm talking about the real reason why most, if not all, religion is a thing.
If we're talking about what religion/higher power can do for a person, then we'd probably agree on that it can do good things for people. There have been tons of people who found Jesus or religion and became a better person or found motivation/inspiration to improve their lives.
And most people heither hide behind religion or genuinely use religion to justify corruption or hatred.
I'm Christian and have friends and family of diverse sexualities. I've even gone to the Pride festival and I sometimes visit the LGBT village because I don't see a problem with two adults who love each other. Not everyone is like the Westboro Baptist Church. When I was in elementary school I was called names for going to church and having a religious family. It offends me that people think all Christians are crazies who think we think we are high and mighty and cast out those that aren't us, especially when I was a treated differently for being different. It's ignorant to think Christians are homophobic when the real issue is there are people, religious or not, who are just afraid of those who are different because they don't understand nor do they want to. If everyone was open to others and didn't take their identity in whatever higher power or don't believe in a higher power as face value, there would be a lot of peace, which I think it's a basis for religion.
If it was just as a means of control, why do people practise still their faith? By that logic no one would in this day in age of scientific discoveries and knowledge wouldn't be but they still do? Why do people practise their faith if it's like what you say? I do because I take it as a tool to better myself and others, which I think most people do. I'm not controlled nor am I brainwashed. I'm educated and am skeptical. If it was just as control then it would have died a long time ago.
I know a lot of religious people who accept homosexuality, and I wasn't even thinking about WBC, just what I've seen in general. I don't think all Christians are crazies, but they are so devoted to Jesus/Bible/whatnot that they come across that way.
I know, and I agree. Also interesting that you choose to single out Christianity when I used it as an example for multiple religions. But the problem is, a lot of people use religion to hide behind their bigotry. Didn't settlers use the Bible to justify slavery and looking down at blacks and Native Americans as lower than humans?
Because they're raised to believe their faith is right, because they fear going to hell more than anything, because they were raised in a strict, religious household/environment, and more reasons. If Hell and Heaven are shown or proven to be fake, then there'll be far less religious people, especially if they find out that they don't get rewarded. And just because most religions are used to control people and how they live (like Islam) doesn't mean it'd die out just because of scientific discoveries. Hell, that could be one benefit of control, people are raised to be religious and pass their devout ways onto the next generation. I do suppose though, the world, if not USA, has become less religious.
But I'm talking about the real reason why most, if not all, religion is a thing.
If we're talking about what religion/higher power can do for a person, then we'd probably agree on that it can do good things for people. There have been tons of people who found Jesus or religion and became a better person or found motivation/inspiration to improve their lives.
And most people heither hide behind religion or genuinely use religion to justify corruption or hatred.
I know a lot of religious people who accept homosexuality, and I wasn't even thinking about WBC, just what I've seen in general. I don't think all Christians are crazies, but they are so devoted to Jesus/Bible/whatnot that they come across that way.
I know, and I agree. Also interesting that you choose to single out Christianity when I used it as an example for multiple religions. But the problem is, a lot of people use religion to hide behind their bigotry. Didn't settlers use the Bible to justify slavery and looking down at blacks and Native Americans as lower than humans?
Because they're raised to believe their faith is right, because they fear going to hell more than anything, because they were raised in a strict, religious household/environment, and more reasons. If Hell and Heaven are shown or proven to be fake, then there'll be far less religious people, especially if they find out that they don't get rewarded. And just because most religions are used to control people and how they live (like Islam) doesn't mean it'd die out just because of scientific discoveries. Hell, that could be one benefit of control, people are raised to be religious and pass their devout ways onto the next generation. I do suppose though, the world, if not USA, has become less religious.
There were people who weren't religious hundreds of years ago just as there are now. With the internet, people are just more vocal. Also, churches were community driven back then and a way to connect with neighbours. It still is today but people have other ways to build a sense of community. As for heaven and hell being proven or fake, that has been a question since man decided to think so I don't think it would make a difference in people being less religious.
