Society Religious Discussion and Q&A Thread

[miyi]

well actually I am interested in taoism and buddhism, I read your last post about taoism and it explained a lot to me, I didnt know much about taoism philosophy, only that they live rather disciplined life, maybe choosing to be hermits, do you know if such ways of life are still practiced, I am more interested in the way of life of a taoist than its philosophy.

also a question on buddhism, do you know about the story of samson who killed a hundred people and repented, its very similar to a story we were told as muslims, so I just wanted to knoe it.

final question, do you know anything about shintoism.

well thats all, hope I didnt ask too many questions.

I'm sorry, I'm more familiar with Taoist philosophy, more so than the way it is being practiced in modern times.

Yes, from my knowledge, Taoism survives to this day.

and typically there are three schools that can be distinguished as follows:

[1] philosophical (their focus is conserving their "Te" energy" in everyday life, both within the mind/body, or also in the physical sense, as well as emotional, etc.);

[2] another is a practice in which the focus is increasing and accumulating more "Te" energy, as opposed to simply "conserving" it, and this is done, for example, through consuming medicinal herbs, sexual yogas, breathing exercises, programs that aim at body movements such as dancing, exercise, martial arts, or turning inwards through the "mind", by meditation...and like you said, these are people who are usually "hermits";

[3] and then there is the "Religious" Taoism school which is the most popular and readily accessible to the masses of people, and like Western Religions, this type of Taoism is institutional, well organized, perhaps hierarchical, and they have sacred texts and divinities and rituals, etc.

Note, however, that these three types of Taoism aren't clearly separate. Most of the time, they go hand in hand, and typically most Taoists identify themselves as belonging to at least all three of these schools.


I recommend this article, it traces the Historical Evolution of Taoism up to the present day:

http://kirkland.myweb.uga.edu/rk/pdf/guides/TMGID.pdf



Re: Samson

I'm sorry, I'm not very familiar with the story of Samson, I've just heard about it and I know it only very vaguely. And I don't know if that's related to Buddhism.



Re: Shintoism

I don't know anything about Shintoism, although I've lived with a roommate who practiced it.


If you want to get a very brief background information about Taoism (as well as Hinduism and Buddhism), you can visit my site, I've written a research paper on it, here:

http://miyisanti.blogspot.com/

 

[ddadain]

Oh?

The Catholic Church is NOT the root Christian faction ;0 The oldest surviving Christian faction is the Greek Orthodox Church, whom boasts ownership of the oldest New Testament biblical texts.

As for what hunter said, which is, IMO, completely biased, inappropriate and offending and what xi0 said about there being "no right one" as being in the same alley should not be included in "Religious Discussion" because they are not discussing anything, nor do your statements give any objective perspective and is just totally biased. I am not a moderator, but as I take it the "aim" of this thread is not to bash any religion, which is or nearly is what your statements had done.

As for what miyi said, atheists who ponder the "possibility of a higher being" is oxymoronic. Atheists REJECTS any notion of anything supernatural, beyond the scope of science or metaphysical and/or logical explanation.

I disagree with your (and the majority's) view on religion being one of the causes of wars. In perspective, it is not the religion itself that goes to war, but the person. If we say religion CAUSES WAR, then Islam is oxymoronic, lol... but more importantly and seriously, if we say so, do you think there'd be less war in the world? To say so is too presumptuous! It's like saying if there were no mosquitoes there'd be less suffering in the world, but if one looks at the VITAL role mosquitoes played and are playing and will play in the further evolution of man and the whole biosphere! Religion does not cause war, just like reading ******/rape/murder manga causes people to rape/murder/be-ecchi in real life. It's people who go to war. It's our fault. Blaming the "religion" for what their "human constitutions" did is like a guilty man saying 'it was Jesus who told me to rape my daughter then eat her flesh!'. It's stupid.

The sad fact is difference ALWAYS incite spite. It is so in the animal kingdom, it is so in our own bodies (cancers), and it is so in Human Society. People not in the norm stick out and are therefore either loved or hated but it does not change the fact that they'll always be detached from those who conform.

---

Having lived in a Chinese city (Hong Kong babeh!) for almost 8 years now, I've been exposed to quite a few Eastern religions like Taoism (which is not very popular but some of its dogma are integrated in Chinese society), Buddhism (very popular and numerous teachings of it are ingrained in the very fabric of the Chinese), Confucianism (Okay, not really a religion, but it's a belief system so close enough), and many more :P Comparing eastern and western religions is like comparing black and white. There are so many ideological differences that it's hard to group them in the same category. Eastern religion are all about what you can do for YOURSELF, your next life, etc. while those in the western religion are about what you can do for a higher being to get "good points" so to speak

Fascinating!

 

[miyi]

As for what miyi said, atheists who ponder the "possibility of a higher being" is oxymoronic. Atheists REJECTS any notion of anything supernatural, beyond the scope of science or metaphysical and/or logical explanation.

I misspoke, I meant agnostics.

but I can think of one example in which your definition of "atheism" might not apply: a new born baby.

A baby knows nothing of religion, but at the same time, it does not willingly or knowingly "reject" religion.

The point is, the definition of atheism is arbitrary, and there's no fixed definition. It's a blanket definition that either tends to be too inclusive or exclusive, and it's all relative to whatever the established religion is for that particular person.

I disagree with your (and the majority's) view on religion being one of the causes of wars. In perspective, it is not the religion itself that goes to war, but the person. If we say religion CAUSES WAR, then Islam is oxymoronic, lol... but more importantly and seriously, if we say so, do you think there'd be less war in the world? To say so is too presumptuous! It's like saying if there were no mosquitoes there'd be less suffering in the world, but if one looks at the VITAL role mosquitoes played and are playing and will play in the further evolution of man and the whole biosphere! Religion does not cause war, just like reading ******/rape/murder manga causes people to rape/murder/be-ecchi in real life. It's people who go to war. It's our fault. Blaming the "religion" for what their "human constitutions" did is like a guilty man saying 'it was Jesus who told me to rape my daughter then eat her flesh!'. It's stupid.

I'm not sure if this comment is addressed to me, but I'll respond anyway:

My argument (if you read all my posts), is that religion is not the problem. Religion is not the primary reason why people go to war.

It is the politics associated with religion, that tends to distort the message of religion for political purposes. Economics, culture, and other factors are no doubt significant, but overall, it's politics that provokes war, and not religion.

So I agree with you.

Having lived in a Chinese city (Hong Kong babeh!) for almost 8 years now, I've been exposed to quite a few Eastern religions like Taoism (which is not very popular but some of its dogma are integrated in Chinese society), Buddhism (very popular and numerous teachings of it are ingrained in the very fabric of the Chinese), Confucianism (Okay, not really a religion, but it's a belief system so close enough), and many more :P Comparing eastern and western religions is like comparing black and white. There are so many ideological differences that it's hard to group them in the same category. Eastern religion are all about what you can do for YOURSELF, your next life, etc. while those in the western religion are about what you can do for a higher being to get "good points" so to speak

Well, there are parallels, in other ways...not totally similar, but quite similar.

For example, the golden rule is almost universal, in both East and West religion. More generally, both East and West share almost similar morals, and examples are:

respect of others, of life; equality; honesty; tolerance of others, including enemies; individual responsibility; love and compassion.

What makes Western religion distinct is that it's monotheistic.

 

[Gold Knight]

Well, if you were like me, you'd realize there IS no right one. It's fine if one works for you, but it's not a requirement in my eyes.

Heh, this is where you and I probably agree 100% xi0. I actually don't really profess TOO much of a loyalty to any one church but simply just depend on myself to read about God and Jesus and find my own answers. I see churches more of as possible places to get tips and advice from people who might have had more experience (ie. missionaries) but I have never believed that any one person is a "chosen" of God and ever had divine authority (since the Prophets and Jesus anyway) and certainly not the Pope. I've never felt the need to "confess my sins" to another person. If God is omnipresent, I wouldn't have to anyway, I'd only have to talk to him directly.

That's why I kinda stay away from Catholic churches. I'm not crazy about my church either, but basically it's all about the attitude of the people in the church that I like the most.

Granted I actually haven't even really gone to a church in a while now, I haven't found one that I liked where I've moved to now. Ironic considering I live in an area called the "Bible Belt." But oh boy, the churches could pass for ninja clans around here, at least in rivalry. I don't really care much for all that.

 

[xi0]

Oh?

The Catholic Church is NOT the root Christian faction ;0 The oldest surviving Christian faction is the Greek Orthodox Church, whom boasts ownership of the oldest New Testament biblical texts.

As for what hunter said, which is, IMO, completely biased, inappropriate and offending and what xi0 said about there being "no right one" as being in the same alley should not be included in "Religious Discussion" because they are not discussing anything, nor do your statements give any objective perspective and is just totally biased. I am not a moderator, but as I take it the "aim" of this thread is not to bash any religion, which is or nearly is what your statements had done.

How is it possible to discuss Religion and not be biased ddadain? Explain that to me.

No one here is bashing any religion, as faith is a personal thing obviously, and each individual has their own definition of what that is.

Discussion in this area will almost undoubtedly be provocative, but no "bashing" has taken place.

Please leave the moderation of this thread to the moderators. If something is patently offensive to you, than you may use the Report Post function as you wish.

---

Heh, this is where you and I probably agree 100% xi0. I actually don't really profess TOO much of a loyalty to any one church but simply just depend on myself to read about God and Jesus and find my own answers. I see churches more of as possible places to get tips and advice from people who might have had more experience (ie. missionaries) but I have never believed that any one person is a "chosen" of God and ever had divine authority (since the Prophets and Jesus anyway) and certainly not the Pope. I've never felt the need to "confess my sins" to another person. If God is omnipresent, I wouldn't have to anyway, I'd only have to talk to him directly.

That's why I kinda stay away from Catholic churches. I'm not crazy about my church either, but basically it's all about the attitude of the people in the church that I like the most.

Granted I actually haven't even really gone to a church in a while now, I haven't found one that I liked where I've moved to now. Ironic considering I live in an area called the "Bible Belt." But oh boy, the churches could pass for ninja clans around here, at least in rivalry. I don't really care much for all that.

As far as the Pope goes, ultimately his authority is over actual Catholicism and nothing else obviously. Each denomination as their own procedures and guidelines, so that's what makes them different. Protestant denominations certainly appear more modern and archaic to the average person, but in the end the root message is always the same.

As I mentioned before, faith is a very personal thing, so the idea that worship must take place in any specific area or facility with a congregation is preposterous to me, but of course that's just my opinion.

 

[hunter71485]

As for what hunter said, which is, IMO, completely biased, inappropriate and offending and what xi0 said about there being "no right one" as being in the same alley should not be included in "Religious Discussion" because they are not discussing anything, nor do your statements give any objective perspective and is just totally biased. I am not a moderator, but as I take it the "aim" of this thread is not to bash any religion, which is or nearly is what your statements had done.

I was gonna say something about this, but xi0 said it for me.

How is it possible to discuss Religion and not be biased ddadain? Explain that to me.

No one here is bashing any religion, as faith is a personal thing obviously, and each individual has their own definition of what that is.

Discussion in this area will almost undoubtedly be provocative, but no "bashing" has taken place.

Please leave the moderation of this thread to the moderators. If something is patently offensive to you, than you may use the Report Post function as you wish.

-Hurray for xi0!

Anyway, everyone is biased for their own self-protection. We cannot exist the way we are if we don't strongly hold a belief.

Religion does not cause war, just like reading ******/rape/murder manga causes people to rape/murder/be-ecchi in real life.

Oh? Is that even on the same level? Do manga authors say "I hate [name here], I wish our government will kill him", then say it's because of "righteous fury" he said those things?

It's people who go to war. It's our fault. Blaming the "religion" for what their "human constitutions"...

What? "human constitutions"? If you're talking about the governing body, then I suggest you take a better term. Do you know what religion does? Instigate hatred. Ask me why and I'll post it later.

... did is like a guilty man saying 'it was Jesus who told me to rape my daughter then eat her flesh!'. It's stupid.

I can believe that. "Jesus" has now become a common name. And have you considered the impact of your statement? Your "guilty man" is in dire need to be sent to the asylum. Or it's the lawyer's tactic to make him plea insanity.

Granted I actually haven't even really gone to a church in a while now, I haven't found one that I liked where I've moved to now. Ironic considering I live in an area called the "Bible Belt." But oh boy, the churches could pass for ninja clans around here, at least in rivalry. I don't really care much for all that.

Wow. So the situation is the same in other countries too. Anyway, GK, welcome to the club. I haven't been to church since 2002, when I found out our pastor is weaving tall tales and the church members fall for it.

And can anyone explain to me why church leaders are "immune to persecution"? It's nasty to hear them say "God will remove our enemies", "our enemies will be undone", "do not touch the 'Anointed'", etc.

 

[godofthesunn]

xenu anyone?

 

[xi0]

xenu anyone?

Well, I doubt any of us actually knows enough about Scientology to have an honest discussion about it. But if I'm wrong about that, than so be it.

 

[Gold Knight]

I sure don't and I certainly don't really care that much about it either.

 

[miyi]

I hope this is the appropriate thread to post this..

I just had a religious experience last night.

Quick background about me:

I was raised Catholic, and my whole family still devoutly practice Catholicism, but I've stopped about a decade ago. I attend Church occasionally just for the sake of attending, and to be with family, but generally I've been agnostic for a while now. And I've been influenced greatly with the existentialist philosophy, which is in summary, a belief that life is based on chance, that we are mere mortals, and after death our bodies decompose just like all living matter. My view is optimistic, however, and I value life and I try to enjoy life as much as possible, since life is too short. I also believed in individual responsibility and to abide by society's laws, which includes the respect of life, including my own.

However, I'm not fully atheist, because there remained a lingering hope that something/someone out there must have created the beautiful universe, which I felt was something that didn't simply happen by chance,

So properly, I'm an agnostic, and more specifically, I'm an agnostic existentialist.

But I was uncertain which of the various religions fully encompass the truth of the "being" I am seeking the answer for. All I knew was that there is something more profound out there that I just cannot get my finger on, at the moment.

All this time, my whole approach to studying religion, was to assume that religious people, did in fact, believe. I assumed that what they believed, was genuine, although I might not necessarily believe in what they believed in.

Naturally, then, my interest is to learn what these beliefs are, and how they compare/contrast with the other religious traditions.

...


Last night I tagged along with family to attend a "healing mass", presided by a renowned priest named Father Fernando Suarez, here's his website:

Father Fernando

The Church was jam-packed, and we were packed like sardines, with the entrance and exits blocked, with crowds of people extending all the way along the street sidewalk. Just from eyeballing it, I've estimated there were at least 5,000 people who attended.

This man, he has a gift of healing people by simply touching you, and the mass was set up so that once you were touched, those that were instantly healed may voluntarily offer a testimony to describe how they've been healed.

We were there for at least four hours (and when we left, the church was still half-full), and if one can imagine, this was how long it took for the priest to heal each individual, down to the last man/woman.

Examples of the testimonies heard were people who had knee, shoulder, and all kinds of physical injuries or ailments, and still others who were blind, deaf, and internally ill, like tuberculosis, lung cancer, brain tumor, etc.

All that time, I was carefully examining these people offering testimony, to determine whether they were hired actors, and it was difficult to tell, because they all seemed genuine, while others did appear as if they were faking it.

I have a tic disorder (a mild one), in which I twitch my right eye uncontrollably, and I was hoping it would be healed, giving this priest a benefit of the doubt, just in case his healing abilities were in fact, real. I've had this disorder for more than a year.

My brother confided in me about two months ago that he injured himself while playing basketball, and both his knees have been hurting since.

My brother and I were healed last night.


I can't explain it, and even until now (after I've slept through it in order for things to fully sink in), I am left wondering whether this was simply a placebo effect, or a stroke of luck. My brother himself, stood in front of the church and offered his own testimony.

This is my brother, who I know very well, and I'm positive that he wasn't hired to act.

I think I'm reconsidering religion all over again.


My next step now is to find out how to properly practice this new-found faith.

I now know that there is something "higher" out there, but whether this "higher being" is Christian, or otherwise, is something I want to find out for myself.

In Hinduism, it was believed that Brahman (Hindus' God-equivalent), manifests himself/herself in various ways, in different times, cultures, and geographical region. Hindu's believe that there are many paths into reaching Brahman, and that Buddhism, Christianity, Judaism, Islam, etc., are all various manifestations of Brahman, and that no particular religious tradition is more correct than another.

I'm leaning towards this belief now, and hopefully I reach a better understanding of this as I grow older.

I know that not many of you will believe what I have just described, but it's alright. My intention is not to convince anyone, I just wanted to share.

What I've experienced last night is a very personal one, something even I cannot fully comprehend.

It's so profound and surreal, because just about a few days ago, I'm nearly as skeptic as an atheist. I wouldn't fully accept any religious belief unless I am given empirical evidence. Normally I'd dismiss religious stories shared by others, as something that did not actually happen, or perhaps that there was a scientific and rational explanation behind them.

If any of you have any religious experiences, please share.

 

[Gold Knight]

Well, I can believe it happened if Father Fernando is truly a man of God. However, this is the first time I've heard somebody relate a tale of that kind of experience either directly or indirectly (in this case it's still "indirect," since I don't know you very well yet miyi, no offense) so that's definitely interesting to hear that story. Thanks for telling it.

As for my own religious experiences, it never really involved any kind of healing, but rather it always seems like when I genuinely pray for something to happen, it does. For example, when I was a kid, I was like 8 or something and I was in the Boy Scouts. We were participating in a blue derby (racing rockets and ships) and I knew really that my rocket and ship had no chance to win - they weren't going to compare at all to the others that were more ingeniously built. But I didn't want to be embarrassed, so I prayed that night to win one of the races. I actually won the rocket race. Nobody can explain it, but I kinda think God came through for me that night.

That's, I guess, the earliest memory I can recall when I first, and truly, started to believe in God. There's been other instances, where prayers seem to result into something positive for me, but I won't go into them all right now... but there was one other experience that I had that made me think angels were watching me, though. When I was ten and crossing the street on a rainy night one time, I kinda got impatient and ran across the street while there was a brief lull in the traffic, but I slipped on the road. The way my mind remembers it, I wasn't even yet halfway across the street yet I ended up on the sidewalk somehow, after I opened my eyes wondering why I hadn't been hit by a car yet. Later that night I found out my mom was worried about me (I didn't come home until very late) and prayed for my safety. Stuff like that makes me wonder.

Even recently, I had a blown tire. That day my mom prayed for my safety, because she felt like something was going to be wrong. I didn't really have any problems getting across to somewhere safe where I could change my tire, but when I got home, first thing my mom said, "was something wrong today?" And I told her about the blown tire. Then she told me she actually felt the urge to pray for me that day.

I dunno man. Stuff like that has happened all my life, and it's ending up making me into a big believer. I mean, "seeing is believing" is one thing, actually experiencing it is another.

 

[miyi]

in this case it's still "indirect," since I don't know you very well yet miyi, no offense

none taken

yeah, I admit I do pray, like you do, sometimes for very selfish reasons. It seems that I tend to pray in desperate situations. I've had surgery once, and I've prayed that I would recover from it, which I did, but this is only one of those rare cases when I do actually pray. After thinking about this, I kinda feel as though I don't deserve the good fortunes I've been given.

In any case, I try to rationalize by convincing myself that as long as I don't commit injustice, I'd be fine. But after my religious experience very recently, I now feel compelled to make more effort to be a better person. I feel indebted and guilty, but starting this day I know I have to do more, which is why I've decided to cut back on many of my bad habits. There'll be many sacrifices that I now feel compelled to make, now that I've been religiously reinvigorated.

 

[Gold Knight]

none taken

yeah, I admit I do pray, like you do, sometimes for very selfish reasons. It seems that I tend to pray in desperate situations. I've had surgery once, and I've prayed that I would recover from it, which I did, but this is only one of those rare cases when I do actually pray. After thinking about this, I kinda feel as though I don't deserve the good fortunes I've been given.

Yeah,...

Well, I think God sometimes get irritated if a person only looks to Him in desperate times. It's like, "where have you been all this time?" He forgives, but sometimes I think he punishes, too, by letting things stand as they are. Life's only temporary anyway, if we make it to heaven, it's all moot in the end, lesson learnt, no harm done.

There have of course been prayers I've made that haven't really gone answered, too. But I think there's always a reason for it.

There'll be many sacrifices that I now feel compelled to make, now that I've been religiously reinvigorated.

Sacrifices indeed... it's extremely hard to be a good person, and all too easy to be a bad person.

Good luck, miyi.

 

[kiddo7]

mostly @miyi (but also anyone else interested.)

I now feel compelled to at least say a few words even though I have grown a healthy dose of dislike for giving out any form of background information on myself online.

Here goes: I am the son of a man who has been "called to be a missionary in a country not his own" (as most christians would say it). I have been raised to believe in Jesus who is the son of the one and only true God, the same God the jews and muslims believe in, by the way. (I really do not intend to offend anyone with this last sentence, I just thought it only fair if you knew where I am coming form. Tis is also one of the reasons I have held back from posting a lot in this thread) My father is the leader of a church in Hungary and I am a very active member of this same church.

The shear number of undeniable healings, and "miracles" that I have experienced in my immediate family alone, so far, is so great that I could not recount them all even if I wanted to. I also have had all sorts of first and second hand "supernatural experiences". I have seen fakers, I have seen the real deal, and I have seen quite a few things in between those two ends of the spectrum. I am not saying that I am an expert on this topic. But among those that answer this thread I guess I might be one of the most knowledgeable.

This is in no way anything similar to a science and cannot in this lifetime be fully and completely explained. But amongst those that regularly experience healings etc. there are a few things that are generally agreed on that might interest you. I will not even claim that I have what you are looking for and if anyone would like to offer an alternative explanation for what miyi and gold knight have been experiencing please go ahead.

I will now proceed to share my personal opinion


1st.

this was how long it took for the priest to heal each individual, down to the last man/woman.

Many Men and Women have come out of "the church" with great healing ministries (as they are generally referred to) who turned out to be manipulating the masses for some or another form of personal gain. often these people put on a big show and claim or imply that they have an "ability" to heal or raise the dead(yes I personally know more than one person that has been declared dead and is now alive) or whatever.

We believe that God heals people and he uses us to do it when he so chooses, I too have laid my hands on the sick and have seen them recover. Yet I have no special powers or ability. God works with and though people and some more closely than others but he is always the one who deserves the credit. Even Father Fernando says the same thing on his website. We want to be careful about giving the right credit because it is God we are talking about in the end.

2nd.

My next step now is to find out how to properly practice this new-found faith.

Don't get me wrong, I would not even dream of trying to tell you how to practice your faith form now on. What i would like to do is give you a few guide lines that I think are important. Things that I have noticed make a difference.

One of the most important things you can do from now on is make sure you do not forget about what happened to you the other day. This might seem trivial or self evident but believe me, this might be the most crucial piece of instruction you can get as it has the greatest impact on the way you will live your life. If you just let this be an amazing personal experience, then mark my words. time will pass and the day will com when you will be able to deny it ever happened or just brush it of as insignificant.
Find a way to remind yourself of how real it felt and how you changed your perspective because you had an encounter with God and as a result you where healed. You think you where skeptic before? if you let yourself for get the importance of this day you will most likely turn into a greater skeptic, simply because you have already experienced God but you found a way to minimize its significants. (bear with me If I am beginning to sound too preachy)

3rd. Continue to do what you are doing. Inform yourself. Talk to people who are likely to understand you and not dismiss your story as a tall tale. Keep your common sense about but do not cling too tightly to things you already know. There might be churches or other organizations that would like to lure you into their "fold" but do not have anything more substantial to offer you than the life you already know. you might also want to check out Father Fernando's "Church" (for lack of a better term. I know that is not what the Catholics call it) or the group that organized the healing service. Also you might consider trying to read the Bible. I know this can be a tough nut to crack; many people find they have a hard time garnering useful and relevant information from the bible. I suggest you pray before reading the Bible that God would reveal its hidden meanings to you. After all, we believe it is Gods word, written by men but inspired directly by him. Therefore, would it not stand to reason that asking the source (God) for help in understanding it should lead to the best results.

4th.

In any case, I try to rationalize by convincing myself that as long as I don't commit injustice, I'd be fine. But after my religious experience very recently, I now feel compelled to make more effort to be a better person. I feel indebted and guilty, but starting this day I know I have to do more, which is why I've decided to cut back on many of my bad habits. There'll be many sacrifices that I now feel compelled to make, now that I've been religiously reinvigorated.

Sacrifices indeed... it's extremely hard to be a good person, and all too easy to be a bad person.

Good luck, miyi.

This one is one of the more abstract, as in counterintuitive, concepts of what I believe. And it has been discussed in this thread before and almost unanimously agreed upon. The concept that "we gather brownie points to please god" and eventually get into heaven. I slight disagree with this. Please hear me out.
We by our own strength can not ever become good enough people to measure up to Gods standard. The solution for us is to accept that Jesus died for us and therefore took the punishment for our sins. If we want to please God now we only have to admit to our situation accept Gods love for us and Love him in return. For if we love him we will want to understand him more and the more we understand him and love him the more we will be like him, and as a side effect we will end up being "good people"


This is roughly what I wanted to say and I will stress again it is my belief and the result of my observations. And yes, it is also highly biased. I can only speak of what I know.
I am done now.
activating lurk mode in
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[miyi]

Thanks for the wisdom, kiddo7.

I assure you, I won't easily forget this incident. I'm a pretty big skeptic and it takes something definitive to convince me otherwise, and the other night was one of those times.

Well, right now, I plan on learning more and more about the world's religions, in general. I guess you can say, I'm shopping in a religion store, seeing which ones makes sense for me to wear (figuratively speaking), and which ones doesn't.

Yeah, you're right, I should read the Bible more often, but I actually want to read all the other sacred texts of other religions too. Anyway, what I am planning to achieve is ambitious, and probably it'll take me a lifetime to figure out, but at least I think I can harness from all my knowledge all the things that'll make me a slightly wiser and better person.

And just to be clear, my desire is not to reach perfection. I just want to learn how all the world's people managed to relate and communicate with their Gods, and hopefully I will learn something from their experiences and incorporate it to my own.

I mean, just because Father Fernando was able to be used as an instrument of God doesn't necessarily tell us anything about God, whether he belongs to the Christian set of beliefs, or otherwise, right? Maybe God manifests to different people in various ways..

that has always been the most puzzling for me. If God truly did exist, then why is it that he is perceived differently by different people? And that is what I'm trying to figure out, and I'm not sure I'll ever reach a conclusion, but I'll try.



and thanks for sharing your religious experience/stories, I appreciate that.


[EDIT]

What I closely identify with the most, especially now, is: Religious Pluralism

To be specific, I believe that no particular religion is more "superior" or "correct" than another. I believe that there are elements of truth in most all World's religions, and I believe that it is possible for all religions to be practiced co-coexistent with each other in a compatible manner, without necessarily giving up your faith altogether, but rather, keeping an open mind that other religions could have some truth to them that can be embraced, in addition to one's own.

My idea is to seek these truths from multiple religious sources, rather than adhering to just one source. I hope this makes much more sense.

 

[genkizen]

Hey miyi have you looked into Hindu religions at all? Like yoga (the religion not the physical practice) or Jainism, or especially the one I feel most attracted to which is Buddhism. Most Hindu religions are very accepting of others. For example in India you will sometimes see a picture of Jesus Christ right next to Krshna. And Buddhism in particular spread out of india towards China and Japan and evolved to reflect and merge the views of many cultures. The very indepth philosophy behind it is very logical, which appeals to me since I am an engineer.

BTW I was raised Roman Catholic and went to church every sunday until i was 17 and have read through most of the Bible. I have my eyes on the Koran next.

 

[miyi]

Hey miyi have you looked into Hindu religions at all? Like yoga (the religion not the physical practice) or Jainism, or especially the one I feel most attracted to which is Buddhism. Most Hindu religions are very accepting of others. For example in India you will sometimes see a picture of Jesus Christ right next to Krshna. And Buddhism in particular spread out of india towards China and Japan and evolved to reflect and merge the views of many cultures. The very indepth philosophy behind it is very logical, which appeals to me since I am an engineer.

BTW I was raised Roman Catholic and went to church every sunday until i was 17 and have read through most of the Bible. I have my eyes on the Koran next.

Yes I have, I took a Religious studies course in college (twice actually, since I didn't quite grasp it the first time), and I was fascinated by it ever since. I've looked at Hinduism, Buddhism, Taoism, Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. In addition, I'm currently taking Middle Eastern politics, so it deals not only with the religious aspect of Islam, but as well as the politics.

However, the only religious texts that I'm familiar with are the Bible, a little bit of the Torah, a little bit of the Qu'ran, a little bit of the Upanishads, a little bit of the Theraveda, and I've read a book of Buddha's philosophy, and I've read the entire Tao Te Ching by Lao Tzu.

I've written a research piece on the Eastern religions, see my signature (link to my blog).

No, I haven't studied Jainism, but I've heard of it. Perhaps I'll study it one day.

Yes, Hinduism, as well as Buddhism, teaches that there are various ways to reach or become in union with God (in Buddhism's case, the attainment of Nirvana). Thus, I consider them to be religiously pluralistic and inclusivists in nature.

While the Western religions are generally exclusivists in practice, I believe there is hope that they can one day become compatible with each other, and in fact you'll see that each of them teaches a lot of things in common.

Yeah, I was only able to read certain passages/quotes from the Qu'ran, so I'm thinking of purchasing one as well.

 

[shigeki]

It's been a while... btw I'm fascinated with Miyi's experience. I've heard of many stories of people who found spiritual beliefs after some extraordinary experiences (cured illnesses, answered prayers, near-death encounters, ect.) but to read about it personally from the person, is interesting. As for me, I was born and raised as a Muslim, but, being around people from various races and religions up till now, and having studied philosophy as a subject not long ago (briefly though), I learned a lot about different religions and schools of thoughts. All these though, only reaffirm my faith in Islam as my religion, as I wholly believe I have found the truth that i searched for, even if I was born as a Muslim. What I'm trying to say is... the one thing everyone is spiritually seeking is the TRUTH. If we believe in God, then surely we'll understand that God must have created humans for a purpose. It's not enough that you're simply a nice person- what exactly did God want us to do? As you said, you used to convince yourself that as long as you don't commit injustice, you'll be fine. But that's something very subjective, isn't it? People who create wars have their own justifications, for example, which others may not agree with. This is why we need guidance from God in the form of a religion, I believe. I wish you all the best in your search for the truth, and I sincerely pray for God to guide you to the straight path.

 

[genkizen]

Cool view on things shigeki. I basically have the same view, but I don't believe in the judao-christian-muslim god. Although I don't have anything against ppl who do.

To miyi, hindu religions I found the most fascinating, particularly from the class that I took (titled Hindu Philosophy) because of there logic and also the books that I read based on them, plus i have read the Upanisads and the Vedas (Vedas being the basis for almost all hindu religions).

 

[Gold Knight]

A note, I've moved this thread to the World Topics forum since the sensitivity of the topic is best addressed there than in General Discussion. GD is supposed to be for more casual conversation. Thanks.