Discussion Sanji a big dissapointment?

[Ninomiya]

The art-art fruit lady wasn't random. She was an officer in Doffy's crew which is a shichibukai crew. On top of that her powers are hax. Chopper and Brook have no idea what she'd do if they got into close quarters combat with her. Also, they're in the Sunny in the middle of the ocean. Nami and Chopper can't use strong attacks without damaging it.

Apologies but what long range moves does Nami have that are so catastrophic that they could cause serious damage to the ship?

With all due respect their lives were in danger and by extension the lives of Law/Robin/Usopp who they were waiting on instructions from would have been in danger had Brook finally not fixed up from their nonsense.

Sure The Art-Art fruit is a great fruit but Brook, can coat his sword with the aura of his soul instantly chilling anybody who comes into contact with him. There was no reason for him to have been in crying in fear for so long.
Nami and Brook are actually really strong or rather, they have some great abilities.
Outside of comic relief there was little excuse for Nami/Chopper/Brook combined to have been dominated by that lady like that.

 

[Fox666]

Nami fights by controlling the weather, and that's dangerous to the ship.

 

[Tournesol]

Re: Sanji a big disappointment?

Hm... I think Sanji just needs a fitting enemy.
Not a "weak" one, but one who is more compatible with him.
Vergo was implied to be an Armament Haki specialist, while Sanji specializes in Observation Haki (so obviously, his Armament Haki isn't as good). Isn't surprising that he was having trouble with someone who had a stronger "armor" than him...
Though I gotta admit, Vergo was "only" a Vice Admiral, while Zoro already crossed swords with Fujitora this arc (wasn't an actual fight though). As far as Vice Admirals go, he seemed to be pretty strong though.
Against Doflamingo, Sanji couldn't do anything at all, which really looked kinda weak. But it's an enemy that few people can face. Even Luffy won't have it easy against him.
When it comes to Armament Haki, Sanji may be weak right now, at least not as strong as Luffy and Zoro. But I'm sure he is still strong when it comes to the things he is good at (speed, cooking, Observation Haki).
Just be patient and see how he does in the next arc.

That said, I hope he was smart enough not to pick a physical fight with Big Mom's crew. XD
It's not really a question of if he could beat one of them if they were alone, because they aren't.

 

[Notice me Escanor senpai]

Apologies but what long range moves does Nami have that are so catastrophic that they could cause serious damage to the ship?

With all due respect their lives were in danger and by extension the lives of Law/Robin/Usopp who they were waiting on instructions from would have been in danger had Brook finally not fixed up from their nonsense.

Sure The Art-Art fruit is a great fruit but Brook, can coat his sword with the aura of his soul instantly chilling anybody who comes into contact with him. There was no reason for him to have been in crying in fear for so long.
Nami and Brook are actually really strong or rather, they have some great abilities.
Outside of comic relief there was little excuse for Nami/Chopper/Brook combined to have been dominated by that lady like that.

I guess the ways of Oda are impenetrable. Why did he make Brook wait for so long before actually attacking Jola? Was it because when they got transformed they were weak for an instant, did they fear the the Sunny would get damaged, or simply for comic relief purposes? Who knows? It's still Oda's choice in the end, and we simply have to accept that fact and move on...

 

[jamarTheDem]

Oda has not portrayed Sanji as weak is the point though. Even when Sanji wasn't being shown as super powerful, he was indirectly put over, like when Nami commented on how resilient Sanji's body is.

I dunno if he did or didn't, but Sanji wasn't 100% either. He was already beaten up and was facing a fresh Vergo. He could have also put the injury aside as it wasn't that bad for him, or he did let Chopper check it out off panel. I dunno if he's still hurt, but didn't Sanji enter the fight without knowledge on Doflamingo's ability?

You can't say he portrayed him strong either . If anything he portrayed him unimportant at the moment .

I'm pretty sure Sanji being fixed up by Chopper would be important to the story, as every other injury towards the crew was showcased .

Didn't Sanji read up on Devil fruits abilities when he wanted the invisible DF ? Information in the OP world carriers around rather quickly , so Dolfamingo ability being reveled especially since he's a warlord or government dog could be required.

Also I'm trying to remember if Sanji seen Doflamingo use his powers beforehand but I can't .

 

[M3J]

Sanji wasn't portrayed as unimportant either. He is the reason why Violet is on Straw Hat's side despite the beating, and how he managed to save Kinemon's body and hold off Vergo for a while.

He did, but did he know what ability Doflamingo had?

 

[Notice me Escanor senpai]

If my memory doesn't fail me Law is the one who told the crew of the Sunny about DD's power, so it's most likely that Sanji didn't knew about his ability till that very moment. And even though Sanji looked up the Invisibility fruit, I doubt he would have memorized all of the existing fruits.

 

[jamarTheDem]

Oda has a bigger plan for Sanji in my eyes . The last 3 arcs wasn't his time to shine, you Oda left him and the rest of the Straw Hats + Momosuke in the dark . I'm saying he was unimportant this arc . Now he was also not shown at his full potential , that's something we can all agree with . That's could foreshadow him being showcased single handily strong lately (like next arc) in the manga .

I'm pretty sure Sanji knew about Dolfamingo power after the scrimmage . I was thinking the Toy soldier could of told him about it when they were together , but sadly I don't remember . I also thought Sanji always read the newspaper it's not a fact but maybe when it was said Luffy and Law allied together and Doflamingo quit the shichibukai that it's possible his ability and bounty could of showed . Yeah now that I think about it Sanji was too focused on that single fruit .

 

[Notice me Escanor senpai]

It's possible that Sanji and co won't be shown till they reach Zou, or even later if they get captured by BMs crew. Sanji as the third strongest guy in the crew is going to play a big role, in the OP for the anime he was seen fighting Kizaru, he seems to be a good fit, so he will have PLENTY of time to grow and shine as one of the strongest SH members.The action in Dressrosa is too confused, it's only starting to get sorted out, with Zoro facing Pica,Luffy prolly facing DD etc. I really want to know what's happening at Sanji's end.

 

[jamarTheDem]

I can agree it's a growth process . Zoro himself while fighting Pika said "he's finally getting it back" most likely meaning his fight skills against a opponent . Tbh Sanji could of fought Trebol even if he is a bad match up . That's why he has Haki to fight off Logia . But apparently him meeting up with Big Mum was more important . I hope he can show off his Mr. Prince side like I been saying or Jinbe needs to save them . Not sure yet .

 

[M3J]

Rereading this arc and the past arc from the books in the bookstore, Sanji hasn't looked that weak. He's taken beatings but still managed to stand up and keep fighting, whether it was Nami in Sanji's body or Sanji not fighting Violet or her cronies. Sanji basically does not look like he's been damaged, even running on his "fractured" leg.

He hasn't disappointed so far.

 

[jamarTheDem]

I guess that's angle wise . It's not about being disappointed it's about not showing growth . Can you name one thing Sanji learnt after two years other thing Sky Walk a move that CP9 showcased 2 years ago ? Don't say Haki cause really we never seen him using that either . It's simply by how Oda showcasing him . If Oda thought of him as important enough he would of showcased him using a new move like Luffy using Red Hawk .

 

[Fox666]

We have seen Sanji using CoO, and Luffy told Law that he, along with Zoro and Sanji, could fight a Logia like Ceasar.

 

[jamarTheDem]

We have seen Sanji using CoO, and Luffy told Law that he, along with Zoro and Sanji, could fight a Logia like Ceasar.

That's not what I mean . I don't wanna hear about it from Law , instead of Shoulda couldas Sanji should of been seen dodging attacks like Luffy was . Once again I'm not comparing the two but hearing a female voice from millions of miles away is shallow and doesn't really indicate growth .

 

[stoz500]

I guess that's angle wise . It's not about being disappointed it's about not showing growth . Can you name one thing Sanji learnt after two years other thing Sky Walk a move that CP9 showcased 2 years ago ? Don't say Haki cause really we never seen him using that either . It's simply by how Oda showcasing him . If Oda thought of him as important enough he would of showcased him using a new move like Luffy using Red Hawk .

Sanji is one of the monster trio and Oda is not just going to cut him off and relegate him to a minor character. Oda has plans for him just like he has plans for the other members of the crew. Up until the last chapter everyone was saying how Usop had gone backwards and then Oda gave him the hero moment with his awakening Haki and shooting down sugar. We have had small glimpses of what Sanji is capable of since the time skip (he fought Vergo to a standstill while smoker was defeated, he was acknowledged by Doflamingo as strong). I'm not sure what is happening on Big Mama's ship but Sanji could be the perfect opponent BM loves food and Sanji is a cook and also the most cunning and strategic member of the crew. I'm looking forward to seeing what Oda has in store for Sanji and for him to get his hero moment as well.

 

[jamarTheDem]

Sanji is one of the monster trio and Oda is not just going to cut him off and relegate him to a minor character. Oda has plans for him just like he has plans for the other members of the crew. Up until the last chapter everyone was saying how Usop had gone backwards and then Oda gave him the hero moment with his awakening Haki and shooting down sugar. We have had small glimpses of what Sanji is capable of since the time skip (he fought Vergo to a standstill while smoker was defeated, he was acknowledged by Doflamingo as strong). I'm not sure what is happening on Big Mama's ship but Sanji could be the perfect opponent BM loves food and Sanji is a cook and also the most cunning and strategic member of the crew. I'm looking forward to seeing what Oda has in store for Sanji and for him to get his hero moment as well.

I'm not saying that . I already said before that Sanji will be showcased later most likely after this arc . In general he is a important character but as of now he's unnecessary . Next arc whatever he does saving the crew is most important . Hopefully his cooking skills or maybe his Mr. prince personality will save the day .

Also you REALLY can't compare Usopp to Sanji . Usopp was showcased as God Usopp before awakening Haki . That really wasn't his first highlight . His first one was knocking out Sugar the first time . I don't know who was saying Usopp was going backwards but that's completely wrong . Usopp took out his opponent in Fisherman island . He never was going backwards and because he was a coward it made it worthwhile when he conquered his fear to save his captain .

 

[M3J]

Sanji is not unnecessary and has never been. He's had his own important role, the only time he may have been unnecessary was when he and Jinbei were fighting Watatsumi or whatever the giant pufferfish is called. Sanji has continuously shown his stamina, even if he hasn't won a battle on his own. He got beaten up by Violet's princess but in few pages shrugged it off like nothing. His body also got battered when Nami was using it, but Nami commented on how resilient the body was, and despite injuring his leg against Vergo, Sanji also acted as if he did not get beaten up or fractured his leg.

 

[stoz500]

I'm not saying that . I already said before that Sanji will be showcased later most likely after this arc . In general he is a important character but as of now he's unnecessary . Next arc whatever he does saving the crew is most important . Hopefully his cooking skills or maybe his Mr. prince personality will save the day .

Also you REALLY can't compare Usopp to Sanji . Usopp was showcased as God Usopp before awakening Haki . That really wasn't his first highlight . His first one was knocking out Sugar the first time . I don't know who was saying Usopp was going backwards but that's completely wrong . Usopp took out his opponent in Fisherman island . He never was going backwards and because he was a coward it made it worthwhile when he conquered his fear to save his captain .

I'm not comparing Usopp to sanji I'm just saying its the nature of One Piece since the TS that with a growing cast of characters that Oda just can't focus on all the characters like he used to and so has to concentrate on fewer at one time and get around to the others later when he can best show off their talents. Otherwise it becomes too fragmented with too many story lines having to be kept going and it would break the momentum of the story.

Regarding Usopp plenty on the forum were lamenting how he was even more of coward than before the time skip when he abandoned Robin and the Tontatta when than faced Sugar and Trebol. Then Oda turned it all around with a bit of a comic touch and Usopp became God Usopp. Likewise with Sanji when he gets his moment it will be awesome and he will really shine. Whatever Oda has in store for him it will need to rival Zoro so that their rivalry about who is stronger can continue. Whatever happens though and regardless how amazing Sanji's hero moment is I predict it won't be reflected as much in his bounty which will lead too more comic effect like it has in the past.

 

[enmymiguel]

why is zoro stronger then sanji. zoro was training like a animal every day and has noting else to do. while sanji has to make hes cooking skill get better and learning new stuff and didnt have time to train to full potential, cause hes a fighter but hes also the chef of the crew and zoro is petty much a captain,

 

[I Am Atomic]

why is zoro stronger then sanji. zoro was training like a animal every day and has noting else to do. while sanji has to make hes cooking skill get better and learning new stuff and didnt have time to train to full potential, cause hes a fighter but hes also the chef of the crew and zoro is petty much a captain,

Well we don't see anyone train before the TS and still they learn new techniques such as sanji's diable jambe. And during the TS we see that he has to train and get stronger to get the 99 recipes, so he was not improving his cooking skills at all but training to get stronger and get the recipes. So he was training like zoro as well.



---------- Post added at 04:09 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:08 AM ----------

We see that Sanji's main or one of the type of haki he uses is observation haki (CoO), we have seen him using it. But he couldn't see the strings of mingo at all and that was really disappointing. We also haven't seen him learning some new incredible techniques apart from sky walk (geppou) which was already introduced and the straw hats beat those users so its not that impressive.

Some people are all over sanji when I said about his fight with vergo. About how he was injured and fine after nearly breaking his leg. Luffy might have been stronger than most vice admirals before TS cuz lucci was about that level. why? cuz some vice admirals respected him cuz of his strength and they couldn't believe that he was defeated so surely the strongest member of cp9 is not weaker than a vice admiral like momonga and them. Maybe Vergo is strong as lucci or a little bit stronger and after TS sanji couldn't do a thing. When he fought vergo he used diable jambe to kick him and vergo was fine after that and later sanji himself commented that he would have been in trouble if he fought anymore. And everyone says that vergo was a beast in haki but law beat him easily which shows laws haki was better than vergos. So I would say sanji is vice admiral level above smoker of course. Which is bad cause he is supposed to be one of the monster trio who must be able to fight on par with an admiral or at least keep him busy.