Discussion Secret behind Blackbeard's dual DFs?

[xitalisk]

Please, no databooks. People claimed databooks said Sabo was dead, yet we have him alive and people like hoeru so amusingly wrong. I'm not saying the theory could be wrong, but just that Ace could have meant Blackbeard is twice his age. It could go either way or both ways. Blackbeard could have lived more than one life, although it would be somewhat odd, or he could be two times Ace's age. Hell, he could have someone else's spirit in his body for all we know. It's too ambiguous to make out for now

the databook also states that sabo is dead?

WRONG it only says the crossed out s in aces tattoo was for his late brother

Ace thought Sabo was dead at the time it doesnt flat out say he is dead as we have seen recently Sabo is in fact alive so
if Oda makes a flat out statement i think its safe to say its legit

---------- Post added at 10:16 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:14 AM ----------

According to hoeru, it did say that. I never use databooks for plot information, just for attack or character information as databooks don't reveal everything in the manga, just what the manga has told us.

Could be, but the World Government didn't show signs of caring about Blackbeard until the war.

what about the cover story's in the databook with like %300 more information than the covers had??????

---------- Post added at 10:19 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:16 AM ----------

Did the databook really say sabo was dead?

ANyways, if the key is in ace's words then the implication would be that BB somehow is two people or has "lives". Maybe he is a WG experiment.

XD i cant figure it out my hope is someone else with the brains can...... we have the clues now someone smart needs to piece them together XD

 

[floman]

I read in the thread that Oda mentioned that the secret to blackbeard's power was in what Ace said to him. Well if that's true one interesting thing about blackbeard in history is that he was not only referred to as Edward Teach but also as Edward thatch. To paraphrase what Ace said, Blackbeard had lived two lives.

Maybe teach and thatch were somehow connected. If you think about it Teach is a crew member who took out the fourth division captain with ease. In the one piece world where one can gauge power, it seems almost impossible that someone that powerful could slip under the radar. It's just a very weird coincidence. I can't really formulate a theory based on it but it's just interesting that in real life blackbeard was named both teach and thatch.

 

[Arbalest]

what i really can't comprehend is that many just can't aknowlegde the possibility of the cerberus theory and dismiss it completely , we've seen pretty weird things related to df already an object who eats the DF, ppl actually growing them into their personal garden a.k.a doflamingo factory we also saw mythical and extinct creatures is really that hard to invision for example that if marco dies he'll ressurect thanks to the special power of the phoenix etc.
let's invision a cerberus he's got 3 heads which emply 3 seperate consciousness and BB took this type of zoan fruit is it really hard to see that each head get the right of a DF when it takes control of the body it activate it's own power, it also explain the abnormal ammount of damages he takes, once one of them take too much for him to handle another one take over and takes it, in a sharing system to prevent death, it also explain BB multiple styles
-at times he's funky : when he spoke with luffy about a man's dream will never die,he's got the clumpsy style luffy like
-at time he's a tactician : how he planned his intrusion to implet down to later on becames 1 of the 4 emperors in no time
-at times he's so cruel so malicous he even refuse any kind of compassion in his crew members
this cuts it for me, if object gets the right to a df why not 3 seperate minds working together as the special power of the zoan just like phoenix can ressurct from the ashes cerberus gets to have 3 heads and won't die until you cut all 3

 

[Zoronoa Roro]

i think that he have built in twin... you kno like second head coming from his shoulder ....

 

[Arbalest]

yes i'm thinking the same if this theory prooves to be true it would explain why at the beginnings of the manga it stated that devil fruits are dangerious at first i didn't get it, i mean who cares if you can't swim if you can fly and do all kind of epic stuff, BB could have been messed up by his DF and he's a clear case of the dangerious effect of the DF if i'm correct let's say his original personality is that of a funky style and if after he ate the fruit it seperated him into 3 in the process that mean BB the mad pirate was made by his fruit, it also in almost all the clues showed until now including his comment about his life he could be living since the age of gol.d roger cause he got the life span of all 3 combined.
again all this is just a theory but it's fun to speculate

 

[uglymonkey]

Here's my theory and I think it explains everything including the sheet he used to hide the deed

We know that objects can be given powers and fruits don't necessarily have to be eaten, like a sword given a dog fruit or something, so it is possible for objects to hold the powers of a fruit. We also know that fruits reincarnate so if Blackbeard wanted Whitebeard's power he would have had to take it from him and not from the fruit itself. Therefore Blackbeard did NOT eat/take two fruits! Instead he took a part of whitebeard's body under that sheet and transplanted it into his own.

So: Whitebeard's body is the object infused with the power and Blackbeard infuses it into himself now having two powers. This explains the sheet as well, as oda cant draw something that gruesome in a shonen. Whether there is something specific about his darkness power that helped facilitate this is another matter of speculation.

Also Marco says that [he's not like most people] in one bubble and that [there's something different about him,about his body] in another bubble. I think this is a troll by Oda, these are two separate statements and not to be taken together! Yes he is not like most people, whatever that means we don't know yet, but there's also something different about his body that Marco just noticed. Oda gave us the answer and took it away at the very same time by having us mix two different statements together that we weren't supposed to.

 

[PrincessNerine]

Blackbeard's ability to wield dual Devil Fruit is due to the nature of the Yami Yami no Mi Fruit. Since this devil fruit gave him the ability to control darkness i.e. gravity manipulation. Since the Yami Yami no Mi is a Logia type its power over the element it is related to is nearly absolute. Normally if someone who possesses devil fruit powers eats a second devil fruit it is a widely held belief that the will implode. If this is truth then Blackbeard would be able to surpress and eventually nullify this implosion with his Yami Yami no Mi powers. I would also like to address the issue of his size being a factor in his ability to possess two devil fruit powers is completely irrelevant. Look at nearly every Logia user in One Piece has been a great deal than a average person but that's just my opinion. Here is a theory of mine maybe certain Logia users could wield multiple devil fruit abilities as long the power of their Logia allowed them to surpress the implosion caused by eating a second devil fruit (but the second fruit couldn't clash with their ability) to me this is feasible think about it.

 

[Black Hawk]

Blackbeard's ability to wield dual Devil Fruit is due to the nature of the Yami Yami no Mi Fruit. Since this devil fruit gave him the ability to control darkness i.e. gravity manipulation. Since the Yami Yami no Mi is a Logia type its power over the element it is related to is nearly absolute. Normally if someone who possesses devil fruit powers eats a second devil fruit it is a widely held belief that the will implode. If this is truth then Blackbeard would be able to surpress and eventually nullify this implosion with his Yami Yami no Mi powers. I would also like to address the issue of his size being a factor in his ability to possess two devil fruit powers is completely irrelevant. Look at nearly every Logia user in One Piece has been a great deal than a average person but that's just my opinion. Here is a theory of mine maybe certain Logia users could wield multiple devil fruit abilities as long the power of their Logia allowed them to surpress the implosion caused by eating a second devil fruit (but the second fruit couldn't clash with their ability) to me this is feasible think about it.

Correct! Its the same with Ruffys Gear2 and his Rubber Stomach that he can strech bigger then anyone else. Only thing i dont like is Darkness in your Post. I would it explain with nothing. Like Dark matter that also explain the Vortex attack he use. Cause in normal Darkness like at night or the Shadow on the Ground you dont have Vortex.

Dark matter is a kind of matter hypothesized in astronomy and cosmology to account for gravitational effects that appear to be the result of invisible mass

"wikipediar". Since science say that Dark energy and Matter can cancal Matter. It´s also explain why BB is able to cancel other Devilfruit Powers.
The Mentention of BB Devilfruit goes more to the science of Dark Matter and the answer what is Dark Matter. Since Dark matter is the fourth Age of Kepler's laws of planetary motion, it earns his own special DF.

It´s nothing with gravity. Since you can let disappear a Charachter into nothing what you can see with an normal Eye. It was the best mentantion to say, its only a half Devilfruit. But the explanation is the same, since dark matter cancel or eat matter. The iImplusion or explosion dissapear in nothing.

As an additional the attack Vortex in an Mentantion to the Blackhole what is well known. With anything included. Explanation When a Blackhole eat Matter, the rest Matter and energy goes Back to the Universe. When BB let dissappear the whole City, after he eat it up he release the Garbage of the Town. The Compression is too High.

That means also Kizaru is unable to fight BB, since Black whole mass is so big, that Light dont shine and can exist in a BlackHole.
That is a fact for the crazy Theorie, who is really able to defeat BB. Since you cant touch him.

 

[I Am Atomic]

BB 2 DF theory

SPOILERS!!!!! sort of

This is not by me. This theory is awesome, so check it out.

Well, I was hoping some one would bring this up. I thought it through a few months back;

1) it is noted that Logia powers cannot transorm when exposed to something that would bind their element together or cause it to disolve or evaporate; Enel and Croc prove this.

2) Shine a torch into a shadow, and there is no shadow. Darkness dissapears in light. Therefore BB's weakness is almost certainly light, and not even Kizaru grade lasers; even ordinary daylight, even moonlight, starlight, anything, would be enough to limit his power; if he is vissible, that is because he is being exposed to at least some light. This is why BB cannot transform.

3) a completely black cloth, if it was entirely undamaged, and was thick enough, would block out all light. provided it rested completely on the ground so he was fully concealed, that would allow him to transform.

At this point, I think you can guess where I'm going. it must also be said that if the DF is involved, which is strongly implied to be the case, he would not need to conceal his method, since nobody else could use it. The cloth must serve some other purpose.

This is mine: So when he covered himself with the cloth, no light went through, you know what that means? Yes, he was able to act like a proper logia which might have some unique abilities.

 

[catagon87]

Re: BB 2 DF theory

SPOILERS!!!!! sort of

This is not by me. This theory is awesome, so check it out.

Well, I was hoping some one would bring this up. I thought it through a few months back;

1) it is noted that Logia powers cannot transorm when exposed to something that would bind their element together or cause it to disolve or evaporate; Enel and Croc prove this.

2) Shine a torch into a shadow, and there is no shadow. Darkness dissapears in light. Therefore BB's weakness is almost certainly light, and not even Kizaru grade lasers; even ordinary daylight, even moonlight, starlight, anything, would be enough to limit his power; if he is vissible, that is because he is being exposed to at least some light. This is why BB cannot transform.

3) a completely black cloth, if it was entirely undamaged, and was thick enough, would block out all light. provided it rested completely on the ground so he was fully concealed, that would allow him to transform.

At this point, I think you can guess where I'm going. it must also be said that if the DF is involved, which is strongly implied to be the case, he would not need to conceal his method, since nobody else could use it. The cloth must serve some other purpose.

I don't think you're explaining what you're trying to say too well so I will try to make sense of it to the best of my ability.

I don't see what this has to do with two devil fruits, so please explain what you mean here and how that relates to him having two devil fruits.

I think you mean if you shine a torch into darkness that the darkness will then dissipate, as the opposite is true for shadows in that they cannot exist without light.

As for him not being able to transform I'm a bit perplexed. He has transformed and shifted shape before every time he uses his ultimate attack: Black Hole. (here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lc9RaMBg-Zo and here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7uJppYGOLfk#t=7m35s ). I guess what you're trying to say is he is unable to fight at his fullest when it's light? So maybe he should only fight at night?

 

[I Am Atomic]

Re: BB 2 DF theory

I don't think you're explaining what you're trying to say too well so I will try to make sense of it to the best of my ability.

I don't see what this has to do with two devil fruits, so please explain what you mean here and how that relates to him having two devil fruits.

I think you mean if you shine a torch into darkness that the darkness will then dissipate, as the opposite is true for shadows in that they cannot exist without light.

As for him not being able to transform I'm a bit perplexed. He has transformed and shifted shape before every time he uses his ultimate attack: Black Hole. (here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lc9RaMBg-Zo and here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7uJppYGOLfk#t=7m35s ). I guess what you're trying to say is he is unable to fight at his fullest when it's light? So maybe he should only fight at night?

The light from everywhere doesn't allow him to dodge attacks like other logia types. When crocodile was covered in water luffy was able to hit him without haki. Eneru was hit because of rubber. In the same way, light allows BB to be hit.

So when he covered himself with the cloth, no light went through, you know what that means? Yes, he was able to act like a proper logia which might have some unique abilities.

 

[hokageji]

Re: BB 2 DF theory

Blackbeard's DF is more like a black-hole and not a shadow. Your theory might work on Moria, not on BB.
Blackholes can also absorb light.

 

[Notice me Escanor senpai]

Moderator Notice:
Merged with an already existing thread that deals of the same subject. Please use the search function before creating a new thread~ ladylola

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Why Blackbeard Can Eat Multiple DFs and Why It's Not a Result of the Yami Yami No Mi

How Many Is Blackbeard?

Luffy and Zoro's perspective:
First of all, there's a scene with Luffy & Zoro (along with Nami) listening to Blackbeard's speech about; bare in mind that none of his comrades are nearby as far as I can see in both manga & anime.

• Nami's response after this speech is who is he? Yet Zoro and Luffy reply it's not 'he' it's 'they'; Luffy's too daft to be a grammar nazi
• Now, it doesn't even matter if his crew was there, it's a very odd reply to say "they" when she was enquiring about this particular fellow's identity; she was only interested in him.
• Also she asks if he had companions around with him to justify the use of "they", so that means she didn't see anyone with him and he was the only person there.

Note: One has to conclude that he's not just 1 individual, but 2 or more individuals.

Marco's Perspective:
Marco also comments on Blackbeard saying the make up of his body is different to normal humans and questions if that's why he's able to take to Devil Fruits; that scene also goes on to confirms to the readers that it's impossible for humans to handle more than 1 fruit as an absolute fact.

• So prior to eating any fruits, Blackbeard's body has always been different. His body composition makes him synonymic to multiple individuals rather which is at least 2.

Note: Oda loves to make references;wouldn't it be interesting if Blackbeard was 3 people referring to the trinity which is a common concept in many different religions. Fact that he has a "Jesus" in his crew may be alluding to Christian trinity?

Acquiring DFs With Fruits and Dragonball Z Influence

DBZ:
In DBZ you need to gather the 7 Dragon balls together to get a wish granted and I think Oda is disguising a similar DBZ concept with one Piece as a 'DBZ tribute'; just a guess, nothing substantial so take with a grain of salt.

Oda's re-enacting of DBZ:

• We know that you need the fruit that's related to the Devil Fruit at the very least when trying to acquire a DF from a dead person. It seems this is rare knowledge as Doflamingo (who holds a lot of secrets) was able to acquire the Mera Mera No Mi.
• Blackbeard himself possess a wealth of knowledge as we've come to know, how he knew so much about the Yami Yami No Mi and it's not far-fetched to assume he possesses knowledge on Devil Fruits spawning. Click Spoiler below on more about Blackbeard.

Spoiler

Bare in mind he gave Shanks his eye-scar over 10 years ago (not Mihawk) and proof is Shanks knew Luffy at the age of 7 and was 17 after Ace's death after Blackbeard obtains the Yami Yami; Blackbeard is no rookie and possesses a wealth of knowledge.

The closest Gathering of 7 Fruits (related to the DF)

• Another possibility is Devil Fruits re-spawn to the closest bunch of the fruit it has an affinity to 'if' the fruits are in groups of 7 (or another certain number) for example; Smileys have an affinity with apples which is why they probably spawned in apples.

Spoiler

• The bag with Burgess possibly contains a certain number of fruits (a la Caeser at PH), perhaps fleeting Devil Fruit essence is drawn this gathering of fruit if it has an affinity to it.

Yami-Yami No Mi

The Yami Yami No Mi has 2 special abilities:

1. Live People: Have their Devil Fruits ability negated on contact.
2. Dead People: Have their Devil Fruits stolen on contact.

Another point I'll be making is Devil Fruit powers are enhanced in environments that has affinity to their Devil Fruit abilities:

• Enel stronger while in thunder clouds.
• Aokiji stronger while in freezing climates.
• Akainu stronger around Volcanic locations.
• Crocodile more powerful in desert.

Blackbeard

His powers are enhanced inside darkness just like others have their powers enhanced in environments with affinity to their abilities.

• This is why he has Whitebeard cloaked in pitch black veil.

In Conclusion

• The Yami Yami No Mi guarantees him the fruits of his choice.
• Anyone else with (or without) the Yami Yami No Mi who attempts to obtain a second fruit would probably die if they didn't possess a similar body to Blackbeard.

 

[ShenGao]

Re: Why Blackbeard Can Eat Multiple DFs and Why It's Not a Result of the Yami Yami No Mi

That Blackbeard doesn't have a normal human body should be obvious. His Yami Yami No Mi isn't like the other Logia powers which give him a body of that element, he can only create Darkness and manipulate it. To survive all that burning damage from Ace, the Jet Pistol from Luffy, the cut with Whitebeards weapon, an earthquake on his head and lastly the shockwaves from Sengoku is something that can't be survived with a normal human body, even Akainu only survived thanks to his body beeing lava and only taking damage from Whitebeard.

Becaus of that "They" comment from Luffy and Zoro there were speculations if Blackbeard is like a Cerberus, 3 personalities in one body. Or he could be a survivor from an erased culture with special bodies, stronger than human ones and allowing him to use more DF powers. Maybe having organ surgeries could also be a factor to use more DF powers, if you have organs from another human your body isn't only yours anymore and this could be a loophole in the whole DF system.

There must be a reason why Blackbeard wanted the Yami Yami No Mi so badly, why he has so much knowledge about its power, why he knew/thought that he could use 2 powers and why he knows how to steal DF powers, that reason won't probably be explained in the next 8 or more years, but i hope it will be a good one.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Re: Why Blackbeard Can Eat Multiple DFs and Why It's Not a Result of the Yami Yami No Mi

Indeed, I've only just realized how mysterious a being he is. How all this will tie in with the Will of D, Celestial Dragons and Void Century is something to look forward to. Wonder if he has any connections to Vegapunk.

 

[Eigengrau]

Re: Why Blackbeard Can Eat Multiple DFs and Why It's Not a Result of the Yami Yami No Mi

I agree with what you said regarding the "They" bit, a lot of people I've come across usually think nothing of it/blame the translation, but there's also Marco's comments and whatnot.

There's definitely something more to Blackbeard's body, something that already was before he even saw the Yami Yami no Mi for the first time.

The first thought that I had, was that Blackbeard had different personalities, only they had a physical, human shape. At first I thought it could be his first mates, but who knows, it could also be some other entities that we haven't seen.

Another theory that I've read (ShenGao mentioned something similar above) was that Blackbeard had eaten a Mythical Zoan: Model Cerberus.
Since he ends up being 3 "being" at the same time, it allows him to consume another 2 DFs (Yami Yami + Gura Gura), that way he ends up with Zoan/Logia/Paramecia properties.

Also, remember how his jolly roger has three skulls? Yeeeeah.


It's a cool theory, but I believe the Yami Yami was the first DF he got.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

I'd have liked to see WBs interaction with Blackbeard before he became a member of the crew.

 

[SoulAuron]

Re: Why Blackbeard Can Eat Multiple DFs and Why It's Not a Result of the Yami Yami No Mi

This theory has been brought up before, but I have a slightly divergent outlook on it. I haven't looked at theories in-depth so it's possible I'm regurgitating the theory of someone else; should that be the case, sincere apologies!

How Many Is Blackbeard?

First of all, there's a scene with Luffy & Zoro (along with Nami) listening to Blackbeard's speech about; bare in mind that none of his comrades are nearby as far as I can see in both manga & anime. Nami's response after this speech is who is he? Yet Zoro and Luffy reply it's not "he", it's "they".

Now, it doesn't even matter if his crew was there, it's a very odd reply to say "they" when she was enquiring about this particular fellow's identity.

She wasn't interested in him & his crew (if they were even around him) but he himself, nor did they (apparent crew) even add to his monologue to justify accounting them into the equation.

The whole focus was on him and no one else, so it's very unlikely that "they" is including the people around him.

What's even more interesting is that they correct Nami's query and change the "he" to a "they". Also she asks if he had companions around with him to justify the use of "they", so that means she didn't see anyone with him and he was the only person there.

One has to conclude that he's not just 1 individual, but 2 or more individuals.

Spoiler

Marco also comments on Blackbeard saying the make up of his body is different to normal humans and questions if that's why he's able to take to Devil Fruits; that scene also goes on to confirms to the readers that it's impossible for humans to handle more than 1 fruit as an absolute fact.

Spoiler

So prior to eating any fruits, Blackbeard's body has always been different. His body composition makes him synonymic to multiple individuals rather which is at least 2.

Just to add, knowing that Oda loves to make references; wouldn't it be interesting if Blackbeard was 3 people referring to the trinity which is a common concept in many different religions. Fact that he has a "Jesus" in his crew may be hinting at Christianity?

Acquiring DFs

We know that you need the fruit that's related to the DF at the very least when trying to acquire a DF from a dead person. It seems this is pretty common knowledge as Doflamingo was able to acquire the Mera Mera No Mi.

Although, despite having this knowledge, it still comes down to sheer luck; the only example of acquiring a fruit that worked without a cinch was Sara Sara No Mi and we're yet to fully understand how that worked.

Perhaps knowing the fruit is key; in acquiring the Sara Sara No Mi all the fruits in the basket were apples, so Caeser must have had knowledge of this prior to this experiment.

If that's not the case, maybe DFs change the fruits they reincarnate into; Smiley was an artificial DF after all, so perhaps it was engineered to always reincarnate into apples; assuming this randomness is true, it would make extracting DFs still problematic and depend on sheer luck despite any knowledge.

WB and Ace died in the same place, yet Blackbeard had to wait till he heard news about the Mera Mera No Mi before venturing to acquire it through Jesus Burgess. This implies there are still limiations in extracting DFs from dead people except you have the Yami Yami No Mi (which I'll move on to shortly)

The bag with Burgess possibly contains multiple fruits to increase the chances of getting the DF of his choice except he knows what fruit it's going to spawn; I'm inclined to go with the DF's fruit of choice is always different to the last or it'll be too easy.


Yami-Yami No Mi

The Yami Yami No Mi absorbs everything, it's simply because of this fact that he was able to guarantee absorbing the Gura Gura No Mi; without this DF, he would have had to search for it or wait to hear news about it appearing to obtain it. Had this not been the case, he might have brought a bag of fruits to obtain both Ace's and WBs DF had anything gone wrong.

In conclusion, the Yami Yami No Mi guarantees him the fruits of his choice and doesn't nullify the inevitable death that comes with trying to consuming 2 DFs. Anyone else with (or without) the Yami Yami No Mi who attempted to do this would probably die if they didn't possess a similar body to Blackbeard.

What's even more of a mystery is why is Marshall D. Teach is possibly the only one with a body like this? Are there more people like him? Is he the result of an experiment? Or is he the only survivor of a race that should have been extinct from the "Void Century"?

other people speculated about this before, one very interesting concept that came up is that blackbeard has parasitic brothers inseide his body, its a thing that happens in real life when one baby partialy absorbs others in the womb, that would explain how blackbeard is "they" also his flag sugests that as well, if you pay atention his flag is very similar to the flag of a crew where the captains are twins, but blackbeards flag has three skulls in it, sugesting triplets in that case considering the undeveloped state of his brothers it may be that using the yami yami no mi is the only way to get them to eat the frutis, as they have no mouth or maybe even no stomach, so sucking the fruit up into a black hole and releasing them right into his brothers bodies is the only way, or the only reliable way as otherwise he would have to get a surgery of some sort, and that requires utmost trust in the surgeon.

 

[kkck]

I don't think the "they" makes sense as in them thinking BB was several people. The chapter introduced his crew and the following pages and chapters also deal with his crew. BB definitely has a weird body, marco said so, but if it was that simple then other people would easily be able to tell BB is somehow two people. If zoro and luffy could do it without haki then people with haki certainly would feel this.