Canon Shanks vs Mihawk

Who is stronger


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Razh

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That's what puzzles me. Mihawk wanted to know just how big the difference between him and Whitebeard is, and yet Shanks came alone to his ship and clashed weapons with him without a second thought. Also, Whitebeard was holding his pole with two hands.

It's possible that Shanks is stronger and Mihawk knows it. For a while, I pondered about the meaning of Mihawk's words while showing Luffy's bounty to Shanks.
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/96/16/

With a little imagination you could interpret that Mihawk thinks that Shanks is stronger than him. He has given up on fighting one armed man like him for a long time? Does that mean that Shanks is some kind of an exception among one armed men? Like, being stronger now instead being weaker.
I'm not sure what to think, but a confirmation of the translation would help, or if not, the correct translation.
If the real translation is a little different, then forget about it.
 
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BlackHair

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I suppose he did imply it.
I honestly can't understand how some1 can imply such things.

Shanks said *I'm not in a good mood right now, Are you coming here to fight me?* so both didn't want a fight so lets just throw this out already.
Was luffy weaker the bellemy because he refused to fight him? no he knocked him out with one punch.
All we got to go by are titles at the moment we have nothing else. so all we can do is speculate
U got me wrong. I wasn't talking about the particular scene, but rather the whole ten years after Shanks losing his arm to now. .. But yea' right, let put that aside. Its supporting neither of them.

We have several examples of Shanks displaying extreme power, and all we have of Mihawk is his title
What examples would that be? If you are referring to cracking wood, knocking fodder unconscious and splitting the heaven/sky (with WB) in half, I see no reason why not to refer to slashing Criegs armada like nothing. But in the end, nothing can be determined by that. It was just the way for Oda to hype strong character, nothing more.

That's what puzzles me. Mihawk wanted to know just how big the difference between him and Whitebeard is, and yet Shanks came alone to his ship and clashed weapons with him without a second thought. Also, Whitebeard was holding his pole with two hands.
Well Shank's wasn't there to battle him, otherwise he would have been raped by now and WB holding his weapon with two hands says nothing. He would have held it the same way if he clashed Mwk.


With a little imagination you could interpret that Mihawk thinks that Shanks is stronger than him. He has given up on fighting one armed man like him for a long time? Does that mean that Shanks is some kind of an exception among one armed men? Like, being stronger now instead being weaker.
I'm not sure what to think, but a confirmation of the translation would help, or if not, the correct translation.
If the real translation is a little different, then forget about it.
Well, if u ask me u can't determine anything from that particular page. I, as a Mwk supporter could come with theories to support MWk, like u did for Shanks.

Example: Reading that sentence: "I have given up fighting the one arm man liked you for a long time" sounds to me, that Mihawk lost interest in fighting Shanks since he lost a arm. They were rivals and fighting for the top. Suddenly Shanks disappears for a year in one of the weakest seas and comes back with only one arm. After that, there is a again a battle between them. Mwk wins and with that he lost interests in Shanks, who got weaker from losing a arm. (<-I know what the red datebook says, that he didn't get weaker, in fact stronger. However that sentence in the datebook refers to the ten years, in which Shanks got a Yonko and not the second after losing an arm.)

The reason for Mwk not fighting Shanks is not cause he is afraid, but rather he sees Shanks not his equal anymore. So his pride is stopping him.

Anyway, there are rly many theories to come up based on that particular scene.. so imo it is rly pointless to waste thoughts on that. Since that scene can support both of them.

Lastly WB is above everyone, as far as I can tell. I don't understand why it makes Mwk weaker than Shanks, if he "basically" admits that he is weaker than WB. Also he wasn't running, in fact he tried to fight him (for real) to know who is stronger.
____________________________

I guess I will stop posting here, beside answering on quoted posts of mine. 'till I see something doubting Mwk's superiority. Until then Mwk is stronger (for me ^^)
 
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Razh

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I honestly can't understand how some1 can imply such things.
So it's not harder to become a pirate king now? Last time I checked, there was no present Pirate King. And there is a best swordsman in the world. Without babbling too much about obvious stuff, it is harder to become a pirate king than to become a best swordsman.


Well Shank's wasn't there to battle him, otherwise he would have been raped by now and WB holding his weapon with two hands says nothing. He would have held it the same way if he clashed Mwk.
Did it look like I needed a clarification?

Anyway, there are rly many theories to come up based on that particular scene.. so imo it is rly pointless to waste thoughts on that. Since that scene can support both of them.

Only two theories can come up based on that scene. And no, it's not pointless to waste thoughts on that. If it is, then this entire thread is pointless because we're discussing something that will happen the way Oda wants it anyway.
Is it that bad to have a thought and post it here to share, even if it is an attack on Mihawk church? :)

You're right about stopping posting here. I really said pretty much everything I had about this.
Just to repeat it, I think they are about the same, but it's likely that Shanks not having one arm would determine the outcome. Unless Shanks is even stronger than I think, that is.
 

BlackHair

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So it's not harder to become a pirate king now? Last time I checked, there was no present Pirate King. And there is a best swordsman in the world. Without babbling too much about obvious stuff, it is harder to become a pirate king than to become a best swordsman.
What are talking about? U got sth mixed up there. The discussion was whether or not it is stated in the manga that Shanks wanted to be the PK. According to my memory, it was NEVER stated.

Did it look like I needed a clarification?
You were presenting Shanks in a more higher level than Mihawk. So I just wanted to clear things up. And No, I didn't think u needed a clarification.

Only two theories can come up based on that scene. And no, it's not pointless to waste thoughts on that. If it is, then this entire thread is pointless because we're discussing something that will happen the way Oda wants it anyway.
Is it that bad to have a thought and post it here to share, even if it is an attack on Mihawk church? :)
You got me wrong. I was just trying to say it is useless to determine the stronger one based on that page. Since it can support both of them.

About ur question, No it is clearly not bad. If it was bad to share opinion, then it would be pointless to have discussions in forums in the first place.
_________________________________________

Now u may thing bad of me, but I had never interest in this discussion, since well it is a old one which arguments have been repeated in countless thread. The reason why I opened this thread is just to see the votes and honestly Im surprised by the outcome.

Imo it is clear that Mwk is stronger, since we have 1) Mwk's title and 2) one of the protagonists trying to hunt the strongest e.g Mwk down. As far as we know Shanks is a swordsmen as well and that's pretty much tells everything for me at least.

Even without Mwk's title I would still rate him above Shanks. I mean Zoro's whole existence in the SHs crew is just cause of him. And If Mwk was the weaker swordsman then the whole hype which has been going on for 10 years would be for nothing. I simply can't see Oda doing such a unnecessary move for ten freaking years.

So plz forgive my rudeness here, but I don't understand why Shanks is supposed to be stronger. Isn't that just fan wish at this point, while rejecting the plot? The only way to change my opinion is to present Shanks as not a swordsman. Not that anyone has to try to change my opinion, Im just a unimportant regualr OP fan.
 
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Antares

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My opinion:

Firstly, in WB vs WG, Mihawk slashed at WB, Jozu can hold against it. Jimbei punched Moria hard. Jozu punched Crocodile (due to Jozu's immense strength and speed, or haki, Crocodile hasn't reacted yet to change into intangible sand). Jozu was controlled by Doflamingo, but not fully. These events implied that though there was difference among Shichibukai's strength (and also Jozu), but the differences is detailed and depended on fruit match-up and natural opponents. They can trade blows with each other, which is why i think Shichibukai members are standing on almost equal level. And which is why i think Strawhat crews aside from Luffy, will reach their full potential at Shichibukai level. Which is why i think Zoro will be Mihawk's equal and beat him eventually, when he reach that Shichibukai level. I know the level itself varies, but the range is not that wide. Blackbeard is an exception, due to his likely possibility the Last Boss candidate, so like Luffy, he is STILL growing.

The Yonkou is a different matter. The last dungeon in the game, the last stand is The New World. Coby said "The one who conquered The New World will be the Pirate King". Moria said "...Then see for yourself what a true nightmare is...in The New World!!". No matter the crews, the leader is strongest by a significant difference even to the first mate. Marco is strong as hell, able to match a Logia Admiral. But Whitebeard is completely beyond it. There is no reason for Whitebeard NOT to beat up Shanks and make Shanks' crew as his own, if Shanks is as WEAKER to him as much as a LOGIA is WEAKER to him. There is no reason NOT to take one of the Yonkou to become his first mate, for example, rule half of and eventually conquer The New World. The ONLY reason, even if we substract all of both sides' crews, is that Whitebeard and Shanks are equals. That is the level Luffy must reach. That is the level ONLY Luffy, in Strawhat Pirate, will eventually reach. That is the level of Yonkou.

Mihawk often sought Shanks for duels. This shows that Mihawk’s chased Shanks. I'ts been showed that Shanks was the one being annoyed because he thought that Mihawk would challenge him again, "I'm not in a good mood now. Are you here to fight me?"

Mihawk’s cool challenge-loving character – displayed the most at the end of his “fight” with Zoro – shows that he wants people with enough resolution and will to rise and become his equal. He’s willing to wait for Zoro. "Be stronger, kid, much stronger, then try to beat me". This is "waiting" attitude directed towards Zoro, while Mihawk is the one being challenged.

The way I see it, the two "attitude"s are similar. Zoro towards Mihawk and Mihawk towards Shanks. The difference is in the personality of the ones being challenged, Mihawk ("okay then, but try to be stronger first, kiddie") and Shanks ("dammit, you're gonna ask me for a duel again?").

I'm not equalizing. Strength difference of Zoro to Mihawk is clearly wider than Mihawk to Shanks, but from previous explained duels and attitude towards the other, it's implying to Shanks being stronger, because he's being challenged, not the way around.

Mihawk previously sought duels with Shanks and all. Another example, In WB vs WG, he wanted to know the difference in strength between himself and WB. So he launched an attack. A chasing attitude, towards a stronger beast. This treatment, to me, was somewhat similar to Mihawk’s chase towards Shanks. That Mihawk saw Shanks as someone he must surpass. As in someone more powerful.

But no, not someone more powerful in swordsmanship. It is clearly stated that Mihawk is the strongest swordsman in the world. In the sword discipline, he’s numero uno. Shanks carries around a sword, he can attack using a sword. It does make him a swordsman, I think. But is he someone who follows the way of the sword by his body, mind and soul, like Zoro or Mihawk? I don’t think so.

Zoro uses ALL of his other skill to support or strengthen his swordsmanship. Mihawk does, too, from the way things being stated. That's, i think, the true meaning of "swordsman" in that title of Mihawk's. But Shanks, very likely, will be different than those two.

In my opinion, Shanks will be shown to us as someone more like Brooke, a swordsman but whose strongest ability is something else which stands by itself. Whitebeard, who holds a bisento, obviously can attack using a bisento. Is he the strongest bisento fighter in the world? Maybe, MAYBE NOT. But he has his hack Devil Fruit ability (and really possibly Haki also). Whitebeard's ability can stand as its own, NOT to support his bisento-playing skills. So is he, counting all aspects, the strongest man in the world? Absolutely. THIS is the difference.

Shanks may have swordsmanship that is second ONLY to that of Mihawk’s. He may have swordsmanship that is ALSO beatable by Zoro’s “Listen to the breath of things, cut nothing, and cut anything” swordsmanship. He may, though it’s less likely, have swordsmanship that is ALSO beatable by that of Tashigi’s. We don’t know for sure.

What we do know is, everything said and praised about Mihawk had been solely about sword. “Oh, he diverted those bullets like nothin’ by using his sword.” “Oh, he split open the galleon like nothin’ using his sword.” “Oh, he’s the goddamn strongest swordsman in the world.”

And something else that we do know is, Marco and Jozu and Whitebeard didn’t mention or gave compliment to Shanks’ swordsmanship at all. They didn’t warn the others, “Oh, it’s the second-strongest swordsman in the world. Be careful,don’t come near him or his sword will stab through your butt before you got the chance to crap yer pants.”.

Instead, they emphasized his Haki greatly. It may or may not be his strongest point, his Haki, but it is clearly more dangerous to Whitebeard’s crew than his sword. Therefore I can conclude that Shanks’ swordsmanship is not his main weapon.

Shanks’ ultimate power, his Haki or something else godlike that’s for sure, or their combination, is what made Mihawk sought after him for duels.
From Mihawk’s battle-hailing personality, he won’t judge someone as weaker than him like, “Ah, dang, I’ve chased him all this time and he lost an arm, now he must be weaker than me. It’s no use chasing him anymore” No. True warriors do not underestimate their duel target. True warriors, no matter the result and no matter how hard they themselves want to win, want both sides to fight as the fullest. Knowing Mihawk, he’ll think like this, “Ah, dang, I’ve chased him all this time and he lost an arm, now I’ll never know, never feel the extent of his true power. It’s no use chasing him anymore.”

My conclusion: Mihawk beats Shanks in a sword fight. Shanks beats Mihawk in a fight to the death.
 

RichardMNixon

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What examples would that be? If you are referring to cracking wood, knocking fodder unconscious and splitting the heaven/sky (with WB) in half, I see no reason why not to refer to slashing Criegs armada like nothing. But in the end, nothing can be determined by that. It was just the way for Oda to hype strong character, nothing more.
Have you seen other people damage physical objects with their mere presence? Have you seen the weather change in tune with the moods of other people? Have you ever seen Mihawk use haki at all?

"World's Greatest Swordsman" wasn't just a way for Oda to hype a strong character?

Shanks drew his sword to fight WB like an equal and WB responded. Mihawk wanted to know how far off he was and WB didn't even flinch.
 

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Have you seen other people damage physical objects with their mere presence?
No, and we probably never will see anyone damaging physical objects like Shanks did ever again. Simply cause Haki was at that time new, Oda had to present haki in a bad ass way and he used Shanks for that. Rayleigh also used a insane haki, yet no objects for shown broken/damaged, same goes for Luffy's uses. And if Shanks would use his haki for a second time, Im pretty sure Oda wont show breaking objects.

Have you seen the weather change in tune with the moods of other people?
No, but I didn't see Shanks doing it either.

Have you ever seen Mihawk use haki at all?
No, but I have no doubts that he has haki. Well at this point just fan assumption of course. So we might as well put that aside. So no, as said.

"World's Greatest Swordsman" wasn't just a way for Oda to hype a strong character?
I guess so, but also cutting Criegs Armada like butter was a hype.

Shanks drew his sword to fight WB like an equal and WB responded.
Shanks wasn't there to fight WB. That was his very first sentence on his ship. He was there to negotiate. If that was real then that would mean WB pirates vs Red-Hair pirates. Which never happened. But Im not saying that clash was not real. They probably were angry in that heated up moment.

Mihawk wanted to know how far off he was and WB didn't even flinch.
WB didn't even flinch to countless attacks of other. Hell he didn't even flinched as Akainu sunk one of his ships. Whatever u wane try to explain with WB's face expression, it is futile I guess. On the battlefield, he has a pokerface just like Aizen, putting his expression on Oars aside.

If you are more impressed by Shanks introduction than Mwk's, then it is only natural for u to think he is stronger. :) I personally don't give a crap for things like that. Anyway, I almost said everything what I wanted to.
 
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RichardMNixon

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If you are more impressed by Shanks introduction than Mwk's, then it is only natural for u to think he is stronger. :) I personally don't give a crap for things like that. Anyway, I almost said everything what I wanted to.
Introduction? He had been introduced >400 chapters prior. In both his conversation with Mihawk and with WB, the weather changed to reflect his mood.

So basically, you're basing this entire argument on Mihawk's title and ignoring everything else in the entire manga. That makes for a lively discussion.
 

BlackHair

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Introduction? He had been introduced >400 chapters prior.
I was talking about a proper introduction which Shanks deserved.

Garp calling him as one of the powerfullest pirates in the NW then followed by the entrance on WB's ship. That's what I call a introduction.. Im aware that he already was introduced in ch.01 but only after ch.400+ he got the introduction he deserved.

Before that, imo he was just a regular guy who lost a arm to a sea king, which Luffy 1hited in the very same chapter (ten years later).

In both his conversation with Mihawk and with WB, the weather changed to reflect his mood.
That was Oda just to make the conversation of two big shots to look more epic.

For instance lets say in a movie if the Antagonist is about to kill the Protagonist, there is a huge thunderstorm with flash and stuff. Did now weather change due to the killer's mood? Or was it the dirceters choice to make the scene more epic? The second imo.

So basically, you're basing this entire argument on Mihawk's title and ignoring everything else in the entire manga.
No, Im basing Mwk superiority simply on the fact hat Oda let one of his protoginist chase after the strongest swordsman, which is MWk. With that Oda hyped the Zoro vs Mwk battle for over ten years now. If Mwk was not the stronger one between him and Shanks, then that hype was for nothing. Sorry but I can't see Oda switching the strongest swordsman after ten years of hype.

Now u may thing bad of me, but I had never interest in this discussion, since well it is a old one which arguments have been repeated in countless thread. The reason why I opened this thread is just to see the votes and honestly Im surprised by the outcome.

Imo it is clear that Mwk is stronger, since we have 1) Mwk's title and 2) one of the protagonists trying to hunt the strongest e.g Mwk down. As far as we know Shanks is a swordsmen as well and that's pretty much tells everything for me at least.

Even without Mwk's title I would still rate him above Shanks. I mean Zoro's whole existence in the SHs crew is just cause of him. And If Mwk was the weaker swordsman then the whole hype which has been going on for 10 years would be for nothing. I simply can't see Oda doing such a unnecessary move for ten freaking years.

So plz forgive my rudeness here, but I don't understand why Shanks is supposed to be stronger. Isn't that just fan wish at this point, while rejecting the plot? The only way to change my opinion is to present Shanks as not a swordsman. Not that anyone has to try to change my opinion, Im just a unimportant regualr OP fan.
 

shinsengumi

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That was Oda just to make the conversation of two big shots to look more epic.

For instance lets say in a movie if the Antagonist is about to kill the Protagonist, there is a huge thunderstorm with flash and stuff. Did now weather change due to the killer's mood? Or was it the dirceters choice to make the scene more epic? The second imo.
you are completely wrong there.ok oda made the conversation look big,but he also showed how big of a haki burst happens when 2 yonkou fights each other.that wasnt weather,that was the effect of shanks' haki clashing with WB's,and they were shown equal , non of them were superior to the other.that wasnt a hype act,that was to show their actual strenght
your movie example is also wrong,when the antagonist is about to kill the protagonist,if there is just a coincidental thunderstorm as a weather event,it doesnt necessaryly reflect the killer's mood but if that thunderstorm happens out of nowhere just because the antagonist is raged and if its connected to their supernatural ability,then it surely reflects his/her mood (take storm from x-men as an example here)
 

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you are completely wrong there.ok oda made the conversation look big,but he also showed how big of a haki burst happens when 2 yonkou fights each other.that wasnt weather,that was the effect of shanks' haki clashing with WB's,and they were shown equal , non of them were superior to the other.that wasnt a hype act,that was to show their actual strenght
your movie example is also wrong,when the antagonist is about to kill the protagonist,if there is just a coincidental thunderstorm as a weather event,it doesnt necessaryly reflect the killer's mood but if that thunderstorm happens out of nowhere just because the antagonist is raged and if its connected to their supernatural ability,then it surely reflects his/her mood (take storm from x-men as an example here)
I believe Richard wasn't talking about the sky split thing, which was definitely caused by the clash. Since he also referred to Mwk vs Shanks conversation. As far as I understood he was talking about the cloudy weather. Which has nothing to do with the character in the story, except if there is DF ability involed. But WB's fruit can't cause sth like that and same goes for MWk and Shanks.

Also my movie example has nothing to do with supernatural powers. I was just trying to explain that directors and writers tend to arrange the environment suiting for the scene. With music, weather and other effects.

Edit:
Now rereading the current discussion, I don't get why we are talking about the weather xD
 
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RichardMNixon

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thunderstorm happens out of nowhere just because the antagonist is raged and if its connected to their supernatural ability,then it surely reflects his/her mood (take storm from x-men as an example here)
That's exactly what I'm talking about. We have twice seen Shanks' mood change dramatically. In both cases, the weather changed dramatically with it. His conversation with Mihawk was not a climax of any kind like the one to which you referred and the weather was darkening over Shanks and WB while Shanks's speech was reaching a climax, not their battle (and in the anime this coincided with the sake bowl visibly shaking). Where do you draw the line between the director wanting to make the scene cool, and the director wanting to emphasize that the character in question is so powerful that nature responds to his mood? Especially when that character's power is directly tied to his willpower and desires?

Put simply : when Shanks got happy, the sun came out and when he got intense, storms started brewing. If it wasn't a causal relationship, it was at worst Oda making Shanks out to be some sort of God.
 

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So what are you saying that Shanks might have a DF which might be related to the weather?

Im sticking with my idea that the weather had nothing to do with Shanks. It was Oda's work to emphasize the mood around the scene. If there was a connection than there would be more hints. Like Mwk or WB looking at the sky and on Shanks or sth.
 

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So what are you saying that Shanks might have a DF which might be related to the weather?

Im sticking with my idea that the weather had nothing to do with Shanks. It was Oda's work to emphasize the mood around the scene. If there was a connection than there would be more hints. Like Mwk or WB looking at the sky and on Shanks or sth.
Not a DF, haki. Luffy had enough haki to tell Motobaro not to fight back. I'm positing Shanks has so much haki the weather reflects his will.
 

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Because of Shanks' Title as a Yonkou i refuse to believe Mihawk is stronger than him.

The best answer to all this is the simplest; Shanks is not Purely a swordsman.
For the sake of argument lets say Shanks is only weaker than WB by a hair.
Then that would mean that Shanks Swordskills + Kings haki is are only the secondary weapons in his arsenal and swordplay was just a hobbie growing up.

Thats my take on shanks anyway.
So even if Mihawk is a Better swordsman Shanks can Decimate him with his haki or the said unrevealed power
 

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We haven't really see enough from both to grudge their strength. But i believe Shank is the stronger of the two, he is a Yonkou after all.
 

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I was talking about a proper introduction which Shanks deserved.

Garp calling him as one of the powerfullest pirates in the NW then followed by the entrance on WB's ship. That's what I call a introduction.. Im aware that he already was introduced in ch.01 but only after ch.400+ he got the introduction he deserved.

Before that, imo he was just a regular guy who lost a arm to a sea king, which Luffy 1hited in the very same chapter (ten years later).
Not so regular if he was able to scare the sea king with his eyes only.
 

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When Shanks still had his left arm, they would duel plenty of times, but they never did it again after he lost it. The reason is quite simple: he was no longer on the same level of Mihawk, at least on swordmanship. Shanks' enormous haki could help, but in the end I think Mihawk would win.

Just a note: This doesn't mean that Shanks is weaker that Mihawk. With his ridiculous haki he could take down logia users much easily than Mihawk would do (I think Mihawk possesses 'Prediction Haki' btw). Simply, in this physical fight, Mihawk would win.
 

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Many assumed Whitebeard was all strength and Haki until he busted out the devil fruit. What happens when Shanks busts out his? Mihawk clearly doesnt have one since he is all slash and hack but Shanks can amp himself up with Haki since he tied Whitebeard in strength when they clashed. Whitebeard was using two arms and shanks was just using one. Considering Whitebeard has stopped entire ships physically being held back by Shanks is impressive for Shanks especially with one arm. Thus I still say Shanks can stomp Mihawk even with one arm. There just has to be a reason why he is a Yonkou besides being an inferior swordsman to Mihawk. There is a reason why one is a Yonkou and the other is just a Shichibukai.
 

THM Nindo

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Well... as far as I know, Shanks doesn't have a Devil fruit (at least, he didn't have one before he lost his arm), and losing his arm didn't weaken him at all (Oda said so in one of the SBS in the volumes).

And I don't think Shanks is a lot stronger than he was back then.
I think he's pretty much the same, meaning that he doesn't have a devil fruit.
He can also wield his big saber with only one hand, but in any case, I'm 99% sure that his power only relies on Haki.

I think he has the Will of the D., the King's Haki..
And that makes him on of the strongest.

As for Mihawks, I don't think he has a Devil fruit neither.
I think he just cut through everything he can, but we saw that his slashes can be blocked.

I think that between a blockable blade and the King's Haki, the choice is easy.
I think that Shanks is stronger.
 
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