Canon Shanks vs Mihawk

[Drmke]

Gotta go with Shanks on this one. Mihawk is strong, but Shanks is one of the Four Emperors. That title isn't just for show. I hope he does use strong haki instead of a devil fruit that he hid for some reason in the early part of the manga.

 

[BlackHair]

Here we go again, it's like repeating the arguments which was used in the past pages. For the sake of this legenadry discussion, I would like to tag along. I will just skip the Whitebeard vs Akainu discussion, since it is offtopic. I mean Whitebeard is not Shanks and Akainu not Mihawk, heck they are not even swordsman.

I think it is safe to interpret his title as meaning he is more skilled with a sword than anyone else in the world. His title isn't "Guy who can kill anyone who uses a sword as a weapon." That isn't the title Zoro wants either, he wants to be the greatest swordsman.

That title says that he can beat any other swordsman. What's the point in calling some1 the strongest swordsman, if he can't beat a fellow swordsman? Makes no sense to me. I think you will agree with me here.

If I can appeal to another fantasy source: Gandalf fought with a sword. Aragorn was almost certainly a better swordsman. That doesn't mean Aragorn could beat Gandalf in a fight.

Your example is like putting a boxer against a football player and calling it a boxfight..

Gandalf is a magician while Aragon a swordsman (not sure about that, but for the sake of this discussion, lets just say he is). A fight between those two can't be considered a sword fight! Let's say Aragon would have the title "strongest swordsman" then it would mean nothing in the fight. That title has only a value in fights among swordsman.

Just to clarify the word swordsman: Swordsman are those who are using their swords as their primary weapon in a fight and nothing else! Zoro was shown to use swords in his battles (putting comedy related non-sword fights aside). Heck even if he fought cannon fodder, he pulled his swords out, even though he just could have kicked or punched them away. That makes him to a true swordsman. Now Nightmare Luffy or Gandalf are both capable of using swords. But did they fought mainly with their swords? NO they didn't. So they can't be considered as a swordsman.

Aokiji uses an ice sword and Kizaru a light sabre but we cant say for certain that Mihawk could beat them in a fight. Its their other abilities thatll make up for their deficiency in swordsmanship. So like Nixon said Shanks haki will likely be the thing that helps him pull it out.

Aokiji and Kizaru are not swordsmen. So Mwk's title doesn't say he is stronger. That outcome would be open and a new discussion all together.

Taking that and declaring he can beat Shanks is presuming that Shanks is known and feared primarily for his swordsmanship.

There are valid arguments in the red datebook and in the manga saying that Shanks is a swordsman. While we DON'T have anything pointing towards sth different. Plz feel free to correct me.

however, we've seen Shanks use haki more than we've seen him use his sword, and we've learned he has Haōshoku haki. This can't be emphasized enough. Rayleigh made a conscious effort to knock out people in the auction house with haki. Shanks knocked out much of Whitebeard's crew and DAMAGED HIS SHIP practically by accident. The revelation that Luffy had Haōshoku haki made the ordinarily stoic Doberman flip shit. (Was that the first time we saw his other eye?) It is a big, freaking deal.

Yes Shanks did break some wood and knocked out some fodder (=weaklings, no names, just fart). So are you saying Mihawk can be knocked out just like that? Or be cracked up like wood? So basically Mihawk will lose just cause he is standing in front of Shanks? If you are going to answer with a few "No's" than I don't understand why you even bothered yourself to list those things. Those doesn't matter in a fight between hig- tiers.

Even though not everything is revealed about haki, we learned pretty much in the Kuja arc and in the following arcs, that Haki is just like a burst. So Shanks who is capable of using haki will still use his damn sword. That sword will be just imbued with haki. Haki can be used with any fighting styles. For instance and Im sry to pull Sasuke here; his lighting sword would cut stronger and faster than the normal ones. Basically it is a power-up, Haki is the same. For those who think Im writing crap without basics, read the Kuja arc, especially the part where Luffy was shot by arrows from Margett (or w/e her name was).

When Mihawk swung at a giant iceberg, he cut it like butter. Incredible. However, when Shanks and Whitebeard fought each other, they CUT THE SKY as a SIDE EFFECT of fighting. And they weren't even fighting seriously! It was eve specified they didn't cut clouds, they CUT THE GODDAMNED SKY! WHAT DOES THAT EVEN MEAN?! If Mihawk is the Michael Phelps of swordsmanship, then Shanks is Aquaman.

Bittman already covered that up while quoting Primecut, so I don't have anything to add. Just wondering why you use that to put Shanks above Mwk. I mean that clash wasn't caused by Shanks alone, it was caused by WB AND Shanks. We know what WB can split with ease, so that sky thing doesn't rly say anything, beside that those two Mofo's are extremely strong. Which for god sake I never doubted.

Gotta go with Shanks on this one. Mihawk is strong, but Shanks is one of the Four Emperors. That title isn't just for show. I hope he does use strong haki instead of a devil fruit that he hid for some reason in the early part of the manga.

He is a yonko cause he is leading a army. Plz reread Garp's explanation. We are talking about a 1vs1 fight... not 1 vs army


It's already late for me, I will answer tomorrow on Primecut's post, if Bittman hasn't. Just one last thing... Oda keeps Mihawk for the finale (vs Zoro). He didn't go all out in this war. He didn't used any named attacks. We only got to see a glimpse of his arsenal.

 

[Drmke]

He is a yonko cause he is leading a army. Plz reread Garp's explanation. We are talking about a 1vs1 fight... not 1 vs army

Yes I know. But he has been portrayed as strong, very strong. Even Mihawk claims he is very powerful. Since he hasn't been shown in action, its a really hard fight to call, but Oda usually saves the stronger ones for last.

I think it would be unbelievably disappointing if he didn't turn out to be as strong as I'm hoping. As a captain in the New World, how could you survive and command such a massive crew without being insanely strong?

 

[Primecut]

Yes Shanks did break some wood and knocked out some fodder (=weaklings, no names, just fart). So are you saying Mihawk can be knocked out just like that? Or be cracked up like wood? So basically Mihawk will lose just cause he is standing in front of Shanks? If you are going to answer with a few "No's" than I don't understand why you even bothered yourself to list those things. Those doesn't matter in a fight between hig- tiers.

Even though not everything is revealed about haki, we learned pretty much in the Kuja arc and in the following arcs, that Haki is just like a burst. So Shanks who is capable of using haki will still use his damn sword. That sword will be just imbued with haki. Haki can be used with any fighting styles. For instance and Im sry to pull Sasuke here; his lighting sword would cut stronger and faster than the normal ones. Basically it is a power-up, Haki is the same. For those who think Im writing crap without basics, read the Kuja arc, especially the part where Luffy was shot by arrows from Margett (or w/e her name was).

Those examples they used are to establish Shanks's haki levels. He has better displays of Haki than Mihawk. Thus he doesnt have to be the best swordsman to put Mihawk down if he amps his swing with Haki. Mihawk will be too busy gasping in shock as his prized black blade is split in two by Shanks's haki-imbued blade.

Remember when Mihawk used a little knife on Zoro? That's why hes the best swordsman, because he is skilled with them. It doesnt mean he cant be beat by superior Haki from another sword user. It wouldnt be the swordplay that beats him, it would be Shanks's superior power. Maybe if Shanks just KOs Mihawk with a Haki imbued backhand it would be more believable since you cant accept that the best swordsman can lose to anyone else who happens to also use a sword? Keep in mind Shanks used to stalemate him in sword duels, so he's just about as good there, but has the superior Haki factor going for him.

 

[RichardMNixon]

The only real comparison I can make between the two is that one cut a wave of ice from a kilometre away, and one cut the clouds a kilometre away during a clash with Whitebeard.

(was it Mihawk being honorable against a handicapped opponent? was it Mihawk backing down?)

No, as I said they didn't cut the clouds: they cut the sky! Joz explicitly stated that they are not the same. The sky is not a tangible thing. What does it even mean to cut the sky?

It was said that Mihawk didn't want to duel a one-armed man. This is consistent with what I said. They weren't trying to kill each other when they fought, they were fencing. When Shanks lost his good arm, Mihawk no longer wanted to fence with him.

That title says that he can beat any other swordsman. What's the point in calling some1 the strongest swordsman, if he can't beat a fellow swordsman? Makes no sense to me. I think you will agree with me here.

No it doesn't. It says he's the greatest swordsman. If he's using a sword, and Shanks is using a sword and god-haki, it's not looking good for Mihawk. Haoshoku scares the piss out of the marines.

There are valid arguments in the red datebook and in the manga saying that Shanks is a swordsman. While we DON'T have anything pointing towards sth different. Plz feel free to correct me.

As I said, we've seen him use haki more than we've seen him use his sword. Why is Shanks a swordsman and Kizaru isn't? Yes, Shanks uses a sword. It's not his swordsmanship that makes him feared.

Yes Shanks did break some wood and knocked out some fodder (=weaklings, no names, just fart). So are you saying Mihawk can be knocked out just like that? Or be cracked up like wood? So basically Mihawk will lose just cause he is standing in front of Shanks? If you are going to answer with a few "No's" than I don't understand why you even bothered yourself to list those things. Those doesn't matter in a fight between hig- tiers.

Have you seen anyone else damage physical objects just by standing there? Shanks' haki is outrageous. No, I'm not saying Mihawk will crumple into a pile by looking at Shanks, but we have seen the snake sisters and (presumably) Sentoumaru use it as a weapon, so to discount it as something just for breaking wood and knocking out fodder is ridiculous. Sentoumaru described himself as having the strongest guard in the world. We've even seen him and the snake sisters resist damage with it: http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/519/08/ It's a constant tekkai.

Your example is like putting a boxer against a football player and calling it a boxfight..

Gandalf is a magician while Aragon a swordsman (not sure about that, but for the sake of this discussion, lets just say he is). A fight between those two can't be considered a sword fight!

No, it's like putting a fencer up against a slightly less skilled fencer who also has a gun. Whose going to win that fight?
That's exactly my point. Gandalf and Shanks both use swords ( and Gandalf did use his sword extensively http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcuDMoSOOrs#t=3m30s). That doesn't mean their skill with a sword defines their fighting.

As I've said before, you're taking Mihawk's title and ignoring everything else in the entire manga.

Oda keeps Mihawk for the finale

You don't know that. Zoro could become the world's greatest before the end of the manga. Also consider that while Zoro wants to surpass Mihawk, Luffy wants to surpass Shanks. Which did Mihawk say was harder again?

 

[Primecut]

I'm going to be chuckling when a better swordsman takes Mihawk's title away from him. Then people wont be able to make bad arguments about him being stronger than everyone who touches a sword. I can see it now, Zoro goes looking for Mihawk when hes ready and Mihawk is a laying there bleeding and says "Zoro...I've been surpassed, you must seek out <insert Swordsman who beat me> and defeat him. Please take my Black Blade as I no longer need it....gurgle". Face it guys, its like Whitebeard says, no one can be the strongest forever. Shanks though...he doesnt have any such titles to maintain and will focus on expanding his other skills besides one-armed swordplay, we seen how he trained his Haki to be razor sharp already.

 

[DLord.Van.Buuren]

I'm going to be chuckling when a better swordsman takes Mihawk's title away from him. Then people wont be able to make bad arguments about him being stronger than everyone who touches a sword. I can see it now, Zoro goes looking for Mihawk when hes ready and Mihawk is a laying there bleeding and says "Zoro...I've been surpassed, you must seek out <insert Swordsman who beat me> and defeat him. Please take my Black Blade as I no longer need it....gurgle". Face it guys, its like Whitebeard says, no one can be the strongest forever. Shanks though...he doesnt have any such titles to maintain and will focus on expanding his other skills besides one-armed swordplay, we seen how he trained his Haki to be razor sharp already.

you are underestimating mihawk's will he's never been an easy pray . plus the fact that he said that he will always be the best untill zoro defeats him i dont believe that he would say to that to anyone . he saw zoro's potantial .
i think that mihawk fought shanks who had both arms at that time see this
WB mentions the duels before shanks lost his arm . plus shanks had the scar in the first chapter and here he says he didnt recieve it from hawkeyes that could indicate that the duels had happend before shanks got his scar .

 

[Zehahaha]

We have little information about these two... So far, this is what we have :

- It's said that these two fought against each other long time before, when they were probably Rookies i think, since i don't think that Mihawk fought against Shanks when he lost his arm ( If i remember, he said that fighting a man with one arm isn't interesting or some crap like that )

- Shanks is one of the Yonkou, he's strong that's for sure, doesn't matter if he have an armada or not, he's strong, if he was weak, he wouldn't be a goddamn Yonkou to begin with... He had a clash with WB which caused the heavens to split, and have Haoshoku Haki, he seems to be proficient with swords

- Mihawk is the strongest swordsman, he cut off and iceberg like it was nothing, tried to attack WB to test his powers (I'd like to say that it wasn't a weak slash, but definitely not his strongest ), the fifth commander Vista was fighting him with ease, he didn't seem to fight seriously (So Mihawk too... In this war, i don't believe that he was serious once... )


People here tend to say that Mihawk's skills are superior to Shanks skills when it comes to sword and something like that... But you seem to forget something, this is a fight between two pirates, don't care about whatever skills or power they have, victory it's what matter... Maybe Mihawk's skills are superior, and other stuff, but is it enough against Shanks who have some skills in swords, and Haki (although we don't know nothing about the real power of Haki, and the extent of his skills, but i believe that he can use slashes and other stuff too ), but in general, i would give victory to Shanks, since he's a Yonkou, and from what i've seen from WB, i don't think that Shanks is that far from him...

 

[DutchPhoenix]

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/50/18/

great swordsman can estimate others power.. and mihawk had no interest in battling shanks again..

and mihawk is stated as the best swordsman.

Mihawk is better than shanks, basicly stated by oda.

 

[BlackHair]

I would like to clear the definition of a swordsman, if u guys disagree with me on that, then there is no point in having this discussion on my part. It's like talking against a wall, if there is no agreement. So in that case, I will just stop posting, until I see new arguments.

For me the definition of a swordsman is that some1 who uses his sword mainly for their battles. Nothing else. A few examples:

• Swordsman = Zoro, who used in every of his serious battles swords.
• Not a Swordsman = Nightmare Luffy, who obtained some sword skills after sucking in that marine shadow. However, since he didn't mainly fought with his sword, he is not a swordsman.
• Not a Swordsman = Kizaru, he is able to wield a sword and seems to have some skills with that. However just like N.Luffy, he is not always using his light-sword for battles.

So just tell me if u agree with me or not. I may save myself some time on this. In case you disagree with me (which Im expecting) I rly would like to hear the definition of a swordsman from you guys, according to your opinion.

Those examples they used are to establish Shanks's haki levels. He has better displays of Haki than Mihawk. Thus he doesnt have to be the best swordsman to put Mihawk down if he amps his swing with Haki. Mihawk will be too busy gasping in shock as his prized black blade is split in two by Shanks's haki-imbued blade.

Shanks is capable of using haki. But that's just a powerup and as long he uses a sword as his primary weapon, he fits into the category of a swordsman. Oda's title which he gave Mihawk makes him superior to Shanks, even if it is just by 1%. As long Shanks is a swordsman.

No it doesn't. It says he's the greatest swordsman. If he's using a sword, and Shanks is using a sword and god-haki, it's not looking good for Mihawk.

Haki is just a burst up. There is no such thing as a haki man. I explained above that haki can be used with every form of battle styles. It is a power up, not a fighting style on its own. You want me to put some examples?

As I said, we've seen him use haki more than we've seen him use his sword. Why is Shanks a swordsman and Kizaru isn't? Yes, Shanks uses a sword. It's not his swordsmanship that makes him feared.

Shanks is feared cause he is a Yonko, a title which he archived with his crew. Not because he is wielding the kings haki. Well I guess he is feared also as a person (swordsmanship+haki). Anyway, I hope you are not expecting that no-one fears Mihawk. Not that those things matter in a fight.

About Kizaru, as said above, he is not fighting with a sword. Imo he is not a swordsman.

Have you seen anyone else damage physical objects just by standing there?

For starters in comics, movies, series etc firstly introduced things/skills/information will be always presented with a boom and a bam. That's usual in story telling. Now Shanks used haki on WB's ship. Haki was presented for the first time in that clear form. That's why Oda used Shanks to present the new skill with a big ass show. Yes so far only on Shanks haki was shown breaking physical objects. But that's just cause it was the first time ever haki used as a burst. Luffy, Rayleigh also used so far the haki outbursts. But there was no breaking objects shown, since it is old news. I can post a few other examples, if u disagree with me here.

Shanks' haki is outrageous. No, I'm not saying Mihawk will crumple into a pile by looking at Shanks, but we have seen the snake sisters and (presumably) Sentoumaru use it as a weapon, so to discount it as something just for breaking wood and knocking out fodder is ridiculous. Sentoumaru described himself as having the strongest guard in the world. We've even seen him and the snake sisters resist damage with it: http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/519/08/ It's a constant tekkai.

Im not discounting haki. Im just discounting the haki outburst part. You only used examples of the outburst (such as knocking out and the damn wood thing).

Anyway about the other haki things: Whitebeard is also capable of using the kings haki. Yet he took attacks from Akainu and other directly. Jozu is also capable of using haki, yet Mwk's slash didn't bounce back. And Im not even starting to talk about the mind reading thing. There is a way to overcome haki (I assume if two guys with haki abilities fight each other, they will just neglect) I hope it is clear by now that haki is NOT the godlike move as many trying to make it like.

No, it's like putting a fencer up against a slightly less skilled fencer who also has a gun. Whose going to win that fight?
That's exactly my point. Gandalf and Shanks both use swords ( and Gandalf did use his sword extensively http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcuDMoSOOrs#t=3m30s). That doesn't mean their skill with a sword defines their fighting.

Gandalf is not a swordsman. But Shanks is! according to several hints. I repeat, Shanks is not a haki man!

If you are capable of using several skills and if you use them constantly while fighting, it makes you to an all-round fighter, like Nightmare Luffy. I could accept Gandalf as one, but Shanks? We have no proof or whatsoever stating that.

As I've said before, you're taking Mihawk's title and ignoring everything else in the entire manga.

That and the very fact Oda made one of his protagonist go after the strongest swordsman (the best). IF Mwk is not the best, then their hype for over 10 years was nothing more that just fart. I can't see Oda pulling some shit like that.

You don't know that. Zoro could become the world's greatest before the end of the manga. Also consider that while Zoro wants to surpass Mihawk, Luffy wants to surpass Shanks. Which did Mihawk say was harder again?

hä? How can Zoro be the greatest swordsman without beating Mihawk? It's not like that title can be bought at the supermarket.

Since when is Shanks the pirate king? As far as I know Luffy want's to be the next PK. There was never stated anything of surpassing Shanks. Mwk did say that becoming the PK is harden than beating him.

I'm going to be chuckling when a better swordsman takes Mihawk's title away from him. Then people wont be able to make bad arguments about him being stronger than everyone who touches a sword. I can see it now, Zoro goes looking for Mihawk when hes ready and Mihawk is a laying there bleeding and says "Zoro...I've been surpassed, you must seek out <insert Swordsman who beat me> and defeat him. Please take my Black Blade as I no longer need it....gurgle". Face it guys, its like Whitebeard says, no one can be the strongest forever. Shanks though...he doesnt have any such titles to maintain and will focus on expanding his other skills besides one-armed swordplay, we seen how he trained his Haki to be razor sharp already.

You should start reading One Piece. Since we are CLEARLY not talking about the same manga. The Zoro vs Mwk battle is hyped for over than 10 years. That battle is if not even more anticipated than Luffy vs BB. But if u just tried to be funny.. then sry, didn't get than one

About the bolded part: Question: Are u saying that anyone who touches a sword is a swordsman?

 

[DLord.Van.Buuren]

I would like to clear the definition of a swordsman, if u guys disagree with me on that, then there is no point in having this discussion on my part. It's like talking against a wall, if there is no agreement. So in that case, I will just stop posting, until I see new arguments.

For me the definition of a swordsman is that some1 who uses his sword mainly for their battles. Nothing else. A few examples:

• Swordsman = Zoro, who used in every of his serious battles swords.
• Not a Swordsman = Nightmare Luffy, who obtained some sword skills after sucking in that marine shadow. However, since he didn't mainly fought with his sword, he is not a swordsman.
• Not a Swordsman = Kizaru, he is able to wield a sword and seems to have some skills with that. However just like N.Luffy, he is not always using his light-sword for battles.

So just tell me if u agree with me or not. I may save myself some time on this. In case you disagree with me (which Im expecting) I rly would like to hear the definition of a swordsman from you guys, according to your opinion.

my definition a swordsman is someone who can fight other swordsmen with sowrds , but knowing this we can refer to them as such:

• a swordsman : someone who adopted swordsmanship as a proper style . ex : mihawk , vista , zoro.
• a swordsman but cant be refered to as such : someone who has swordsman skills but not mainly their own style . ex : kizaru , aokiji .
• non swordsman : someone who has zero natural knowledge of swordsmenship ex : luffy .

 

[RichardMNixon]

That and the very fact Oda made one of his protagonist go after the strongest swordsman (the best). IF Mwk is not the best, then their hype for over 10 years was nothing more that just fart. I can't see Oda pulling some shit like that.

hä? How can Zoro be the greatest swordsman without beating Mihawk? It's not like that title can be bought at the supermarket.

Since when is Shanks the pirate king? As far as I know Luffy want's to be the next PK. There was never stated anything of surpassing Shanks. Mwk did say that becoming the PK is harden than beating him.


You should start reading One Piece. Since we are CLEARLY not talking about the same manga. The Zoro vs Mwk battle is hyped for over than 10 years. That battle is if not even more anticipated than Luffy vs BB. But if u just tried to be funny.. then sry, didn't get than one

About the bolded part: Question: Are u saying that anyone who touches a sword is a swordsman?

I'm not sure we're reading the same manga anymore either.
Chapter One chief: http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/1/45/
Remember that hat Luffy wears? Why's he got that again?

I didn't say Zoro didn't have to beat Mihawk to get the title; I said that didn't have to happen at the end of the manga. He could beat Mihawk and become the world's greatest swordsman before a hypothetical final boss battle with Shiryuu or someone else. Luffy needs him to be the world's greatest after all: http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/6/07/

No, my impression is you are saying that. Anyone who fights with a sword gets killed by Mihawk. That's your argument. "World's Greatest Swordsman" could also describe the person with the most skill with a sword. That doesn't mean he can kill a swordsman who also has some ridiculous additional power. Why should haki not be a distinct skill? Sentoumaru is more a haki man than he is a sumo man.

 

[bittman]

There is no such thing as a haki man

To me, this is the argument in a clear little line.

Shanks has Haki. Congratulations to him, may he live a long happy life.

Whitebeard has Haki. He also has quakes. A bisento. 11 foot of manhood. About 3 six-packs. 1600 crew. 13 division commanders. 43 New World pirates.

After watching the argument go back and forward, I still see two flaws in all Shanks arguments:

1) That Shanks, after high-fiving Whitebeard, is the exact same level as his beardiness. This argument seems to be then matched to WB owning Akainu, despite the fact that they also shared a few equal exchanges in the meantime. So make up your minds. Is Shanks equal to WB because they clashed swords once, or is Akainu weaker than WB because, after clashing powers about 3-4 times, he got a 9.3 on the richter scale to his spinal column?

The "Shanks-WB high-five logic" perplexes me. By that token, Kizaru never got hit from WB, despite sending a laser through him, and thus Kizaru > WB? And we saw Rayleigh clash swords with Kizaru...so Rayleigh > WB also?

2) Haki makes swords glow, hair glow, eyes go green, break illusions, cast black fire, summon a dragon from balls and make a PB&J sandwich all at the same time.

Haki is a tool. Saying that Shanks showing mighty Haki = Shanks being mighty is like saying that Mihawk shows a mighty sword and thus must be mighty. Shanks has haki, Mihawk has a black sword. They are practically, for all intents and purposes, the same thing. If Mihawk is the "most skilled swordsman", it doesn't mean that he wins because he has a pretty sword. If Shanks is the level 103 Haki user I see tossed around, it doesn't mean he wins because he has some pretty haki. Be like saying that Hancock = Shanks, and thus Hancock = WB.

Anyway, those are the two misconceptions I keep seing about Shanks. That he is both equal to WB, and that the King's Haki is the equivalent of Super Saiyan.

Still on a "tie" vote myself. Unfortunately most Mihawk arguments are "he looks bored" or "maybe Shanks doesn't always use a sword", and (as discussed above), ALL Shanks arguments are "He's WB without a beard" or "Haki is the new black".

EDIT: And @ above post - Sentomaru is far more a sumo man than a haki man. Do you think Luffy would become more a haki man than a rubber man in the future after being a rubber man for 10 years and 500+ chapters? Will he ever get to a point where he uses rubber less than haki? Impossible, everything he does is rubber.

 

[Primecut]

To me, this is the argument in a clear little line.

Shanks has Haki. Congratulations to him, may he live a long happy life.

Whitebeard has Haki. He also has quakes. A bisento. 11 foot of manhood. About 3 six-packs. 1600 crew. 13 division commanders. 43 New World pirates.

After watching the argument go back and forward, I still see two flaws in all Shanks arguments:

1) That Shanks, after high-fiving Whitebeard, is the exact same level as his beardiness. This argument seems to be then matched to WB owning Akainu, despite the fact that they also shared a few equal exchanges in the meantime. So make up your minds. Is Shanks equal to WB because they clashed swords once, or is Akainu weaker than WB because, after clashing powers about 3-4 times, he got a 9.3 on the richter scale to his spinal column?

The "Shanks-WB high-five logic" perplexes me. By that token, Kizaru never got hit from WB, despite sending a laser through him, and thus Kizaru > WB?

2) Haki makes swords glow, hair glow, eyes go green, break illusions, cast black fire, summon a dragon from balls and make a PB&J sandwich all at the same time.

Haki is a tool. Saying that Shanks showing mighty Haki = Shanks being mighty is like saying that Mihawk shows a mighty sword and thus must be mighty. Shanks has haki, Mihawk has a black sword. They are practically, for all intents and purposes, the same thing. If Mihawk is the "most skilled swordsman", it doesn't mean that he wins because he has a pretty sword. If Shanks is the level 103 Haki user I see tossed around, it doesn't mean he wins because he has some pretty haki. Be like saying that Hancock = Shanks, and thus Hancock = WB.

Anyway, those are the two misconceptions I keep seing about Shanks. That he is both equal to WB, and that the King's Haki is the equivalent of Super Saiyan.

Still on a "tie" vote myself. Unfortunately most Mihawk arguments are "he looks bored" or "maybe Shanks doesn't always use a sword", and (as discussed above), ALL Shanks arguments are "He's WB without a beard" or "Haki is the new black".

You are throwing arguments in people's mouths like a certain other poster on this thread. Akainu isnt equal to Whitebeard at all, you havent proven that they had equal exchanges, you just keep saying that they did. Every hit Akainu landed on Whitebeard was after he had a giant hole in his chest from Squaddo, his best shot was even landed on a Whitebeard on his knees puking up blood who couldnt defend himself. If you dont see an issue with that then reread the whole fight starting at chapter Yonkou Whitebeard, because your eyes were closed. Shanks on the otherhand tied Whitebeard's slash and split the sky and that was a FRESH albeit aged Whitebeard.

Kizaru? Kizaru is a logia that can move around at the speed of light and pepper Whitebeard, that doesnt put him at the same level at all still. It just means he can move in for some cheap shots on a wounded Whitebeard, just like your buddy Akainu did. Too bad their attacks were ineffective at stopping him despite all the advantages they had on him.

The icing on the cake is that a wounded and nearly dead Whitebeard TWO shot an unwounded Akainu should show you the difference in levels. Whitebeard was holding back the entire fight so he didnt hurt Ace or his own crew by using his quake powers fully. That last shot on Akainu proves that...the entire plaza and marine HQ is split in two and Akainu went basejumping into the chasm Whitebeard just created after Whitebeard broke him in two. Maybe if Akainu develops the ability to tank getting his organs quaked he'll be able to hang with Whitebeard, but being equal to Whitebeard yet getting one shot? Plus if he was equal wouldnt Akainu be standing here alone, sport.

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/564/11/

Your second argument is just baseless nonsense. Some of the things you are implying Haki cant do have actually been done in One Piece, such as weapons being powered up and glowing. Try again.

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/567/03/

Unless you are saying that circle around Whitebeard's weapon is a giant marshmallow your credibility is really hurting when you act like Haki is some kind of joke here. Get a real argument then come see me.

Still on a "tie" vote myself. Unfortunately most Mihawk arguments are "he looks bored" or "maybe Shanks doesn't always use a sword", and (as discussed above), ALL Shanks arguments are "He's WB without a beard" or "Haki is the new black".

Then I challenge you to prove his power isnt in the same ballpark as Whitebeard's. We know that Mihawk's isnt, considering he admitted such and tossed his "world's strongest slash" at Whitebeard to test him. You know, since he was held off by a fifth division commander. I didnt see Vista even having a cut from their fight either in his recent appearance. We know that Shanks's is because he split the sky against a fresh Whitebeard. Prove otherwise.

 

[superman97]

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/96/16/

"I have given up thinking about fighting the one armed man like you for a long time."
-Mihawk talking to Shanks

So yes maybe in the past they were equals, but that very line indicates that at some point Shanks ability as a 'fighter' surpassed Mihawk.

 

[KnuckleheadedNinja]

Mihawk was the one that use to seek Shanks out for a duel, which to me quite simply mean Shanks is stronger. You don't seek out someone who you are superior to for a duel. Also knowing Shanks personality i doubt he was even fighting Mihawk seriously. Probably wasn't even using haki, duels were probably just completely sword fights.

 

[deffkryz]

Your second argument is just baseless nonsense. Some of the things you are implying Haki cant do have actually been done in One Piece, such as weapons being powered up and glowing. Try again.

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/567/03/

Unless you are saying that circle around Whitebeard's weapon is a giant marshmallow your credibility is really hurting when you act like Haki is some kind of joke here. Get a real argument then come see me.

I think this glowing is "just" Whitebeard's concentrated DF power. I has the same "sound effect" ("Buu...n"), so WB may simply transfer that DF energy from his body into the blade of his bisento to create a massive attack.

 

[bittman]

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/96/16/

"I have given up thinking about fighting the one armed man like you for a long time."
-Mihawk talking to Shanks

So yes maybe in the past they were equals, but that very line indicates that at some point Shanks ability as a 'fighter' surpassed Mihawk.

This is the only point of comparison we have between the two, and honestly I can read it both ways. Has he given up because he believes himself to be far superior? Or has he given up because he believes himself to be inferior?

Or is Mihawk just living a very bored life right now. Unable to find any battles which keep him interested and fresh?

Now, back to my favourite poster:

You are throwing arguments in people's mouths like a certain other poster on this thread. Akainu isnt equal to Whitebeard at all, you havent proven that they had equal exchanges, you just keep saying that they did. Every hit Akainu landed on Whitebeard was after he had a giant hole in his chest from Squaddo, his best shot was even landed on a Whitebeard on his knees puking up blood who couldnt defend himself. If you dont see an issue with that then reread the whole fight starting at chapter Yonkou Whitebeard, because your eyes were closed. Shanks on the otherhand tied Whitebeard's slash and split the sky and that was a FRESH albeit aged Whitebeard.

The icing on the cake is that a wounded and nearly dead Whitebeard TWO shot an unwounded Akainu should show you the difference in levels. Whitebeard was holding back the entire fight so he didnt hurt Ace or his own crew by using his quake powers fully. That last shot on Akainu proves that...the entire plaza and marine HQ is split in two and Akainu went basejumping into the chasm Whitebeard just created after Whitebeard broke him in two. Maybe if Akainu develops the ability to tank getting his organs quaked he'll be able to hang with Whitebeard, but being equal to Whitebeard yet getting one shot? Plus if he was equal wouldnt Akainu be standing here alone, sport.

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/564/11/

I feel we're really getting off topic here, but you keep expanding on it so:

Firstly, the "hole" in the chest. Hole is excessive, it's what Ace had after Akainu fisted him. He had a stab wound. Luffy's seen worse stab wounds and gotten up, it would be a travesty to see Whitebeard (titled the world's strongest man) go down from one shot. Even Squadro knew it would be nowhere near enough to take down WB. I never saw Whitebeard once react in a way that showed that this wound was painful. Besides, WB seemed to commit himself to dying the moment he walked onto this battlefield, thus giving 110% and going beyond what remains of his limits. What motivation does anyone else in this battle (except maybe Luffy) have to give more than their own lifeforce?

Akainu's "best shot" was after he'd been hit in the spine, and was able to take off a nice bit of his beardiness's face. The other shot you're referring to looks like a mini slap compared to the usual fists we see fly from Akainu. As for the two shotting, either party of this battle could one-two shot, what WB got off was the first "definitive" shot in what can be seen as nothing more than a surprise attack.

I admit WB was probably holding back for half the battle, but since you believe this is akin to WB not holding back on his beloved ship whilst high fiving Shanks. Clearly WB was not holding back, and his little Moby Dick is made out of seastone or something.

Your second argument is just baseless nonsense. Some of the things you are implying Haki cant do have actually been done in One Piece, such as weapons being powered up and glowing. Try again.

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/567/03/

Unless you are saying that circle around Whitebeard's weapon is a giant marshmallow your credibility is really hurting when you act like Haki is some kind of joke here. Get a real argument then come see me.

Haha what? Are you trying to "school" me? Feels more and more like I'm debating with a kid whose argument is "is too!" but anyway.

Obviously, my talk about haki that you highlighted was a joke. Thanks for picking up on it. You, however, did talk about shanks' glowing sword breaking Mihawk's black one...

I never said WB doesn't have haki. He has pretty haki too. But it still doesn't stop it from being a tool. Haki, in the hands of someone unskilled (Luffy) is almost a worthless tool. Just like a sword. But a tool is just a tool, and it's the craftsman behind it which means everything. My point was that you have hyped up Shanks' Haki like it's a swiss army knife with diamond edges and flamethrowers. If Shanks is a "master Haki master" (unproven), and Mihawk is a "master sword master", then they are still both masters of tools. A master will do amazing things with a tool.

That was my point. That haki does not guarentee Shanks victory. Would be like saying Mihawk has a sword, and thus it guarentee's him victory.

Then I challenge you to prove his power isnt in the same ballpark as Whitebeard's. We know that Mihawk's isnt, considering he admitted such and tossed his "world's strongest slash" at Whitebeard to test him. You know, since he was held off by a fifth division commander. I didnt see Vista even having a cut from their fight either in his recent appearance. We know that Shanks's is because he split the sky against a fresh Whitebeard. Prove otherwise.

I can't prove Shanks isn't in the same ballpark. But if you believe Akainu isn't in the same ballpark, then I can sure as hell prove Shanks isn't with just as much logic.

Akainu's ballpark compared to WB:
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/567/14-15/

Shanks' ballpark compared to WB:
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/434/15/

They both appeared to have clashed. Neither is damaged, good times. My point is, with the last post, that Shanks and Akainu are probably in a very similar ballpark. Whether a fit WB is in the same ballpark is nearly impossible to tell, because we have never seen a "fit" WB.

So after all that, you're still doing the two things I mentioned in my post.

1) Believing WB = Shanks and thus taking WB's feats as Shanks'.
2) Believing Shanks, because he has shown haki, is instantly superior to Mihawk because of it.

I don't know how much evidence I can give to keep reinforcing these points to you, but we'll see how long it takes me to get tired of it.

 

[DLord.Van.Buuren]

Your second argument is just baseless nonsense. Some of the things you are implying Haki cant do have actually been done in One Piece, such as weapons being powered up and glowing. Try again.

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/567/03/

Unless you are saying that circle around Whitebeard's weapon is a giant marshmallow your credibility is really hurting when you act like Haki is some kind of joke here. Get a real argument then come see me.
.

i assume you meant that circle is haki i dont think so thats merly oda's way of portraiting vibrations imbued in the bisento , haki has never been visible .

 

[BlackHair]

Richard Im not sure if you noticed but half of the quote you used from my post wasn't directed at you. It was directed to a certain some1 who just keeps using poor arguments and who is ignoring my posts.

I'm not sure we're reading the same manga anymore either.
Chapter One chief: http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/1/45/
Remember that hat Luffy wears? Why's he got that again?

Aren't you twisting sth here? You said that Mwk stated that surpassing Shanks is even harder than beating him. Which he never did! Here again:

Also consider that while Zoro wants to surpass Mihawk, Luffy wants to surpass Shanks. Which did Mihawk say was harder again?

Luffy wants to be the PK. Means he is intending to surpass every pirate crew out there. Red-Hair pirates is just one of them, so is the great WB pirates!

Also this will be a crew achievement, so doesn't rly matter in any way to this discussion.

I didn't say Zoro didn't have to beat Mihawk to get the title; I said that didn't have to happen at the end of the manga. He could beat Mihawk and become the world's greatest swordsman before a hypothetical final boss battle with Shiryuu or someone else. Luffy needs him to be the world's greatest after all: http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/6/07/

I guess there was a misunderstanding. As I said Oda will keep Mihawk for the final, I meant for his final battle, not necessarily Zoro's final battle.

No

Even if that question wasn't directed at you, I guess there is at least sth we both agree on.

my impression is you are saying that. Anyone who fights with a sword gets killed by Mihawk. That's your argument.

No, Im saying that Mwk's title puts him above any other swordsman. Again, Swordsmen are those who are fighting primarily with their swords. Not those who are using a sword as a second weapon.

Just to make myself clear: Mwk's title doesn't put him above Kizaru, Nightmare Luffy, Roger etc. These three were either portrayed with a sword or shown to have some sword skills.

Why should haki not be a distinct skill? Sentoumaru is more a haki man than he is a sumo man.

1.) Well Rayleigh (in comparison with Zoro) is a swordsman, not a haki man, even though he can use haki. Also that would turn everyone who is capable of using haki into haki mans. So just as bittman said, Luffy will stop being a rubberman..

2.) Yes Haki is a skill on its own, but it can be only used in addition with any other fighting style. Solely haki won't help you defeating your equal opponent. You need other skills to back it up. That's why it is not a fighting style on its own. As a swordsman or gunman you can defeat your equal opponent without haki, but it is not possible the other way around.

Mihawk was the one that use to seek Shanks out for a duel, which to me quite simply mean Shanks is stronger. You don't seek out someone who you are superior to for a duel. Also knowing Shanks personality i doubt he was even fighting Mihawk seriously. Probably wasn't even using haki, duels were probably just completely sword fights.

What the hell: Why should Shanks hold himself back? And where is it stated that Mwk was the one who always seeked for battles? Even if, that doesn't make him autmatically weaker than Shanks, since it seems to be in his personality to fight strong guys. Anyway, you are just disallowing what Oda wrote in the red datebook. Shanks and Mihawk were rivals for the top! - There are no indication of Shanks ever holding back.

So yes maybe in the past they were equals, but that very line indicates that at some point Shanks ability as a 'fighter' surpassed Mihawk.

Im not sure how you could interpret sth like that. But let me tell you, there is a another interpretation as well. For instance: Shanks and Mwk were equal, now after Shanks lost his dominant arm, Mwk lost interest in his former rival, who could no longer put a equal fight with Mwk.

You are throwing arguments in people's mouths like a certain other poster on this thread.

Seriously, I did apologize and it was just one time. Not that Im doing that constantly. Anyway why are your ignoring my posts? Im still waiting for a answer on my question (definition of a swordsman).

Your poor argument is that Shanks is a Yonko and he is using the same haki as WB did, so he is stronger than Mihawk. Ridiculous, since when is Shanks equal to Whitebeard?! You are basing everything on a clash, that wasn't even a fight! It's like exchanging the first blow and calling both equals cause it was a draw. WB is godlike, but Shanks? Remember how he wet himself regarding BB.