Canon Shanks vs Mihawk

[Primecut]

We didn't see any real battle with Shanks. You cannot argue based on "evidence".

Do you have any proof that Shanks can cut an ice mountain? No.

So I don't get your point.
Luffy faced off the three admirals, hit Garp, evaded Sengoku...

If you argue that Mihawk is weak because of Buggy, I would say that Shanks is weak because of Higuma. I really don't get your point.

He doesn't need to cut ice, he already split the sky by clashing with Whitebeard, its a higher feat. Dont ask a guy who can level buildings to level a shed, just as you dont ask Shanks to cut icebergs when he has done bigger and better already. Since he was on the same ground as the World's Strongest Man and Mihawk isnt...well...powerscaling for Shanks isnt even necessary anymore, he is just stronger due to the Whitebeard incident alone. The Haki factor makes it that much more of a slaughterhouse for Shanks.

 

[BlackHair]

He doesn't need to cut ice, he already split the sky by clashing with Whitebeard. Since he was on the same ground as the World's Strongest Man and Mihawk isnt...well...powerscaling for Shanks isnt even necessary, he is just stronger due to the Whitebeard incident.

Giving Shanks credit for splitting the sky makes no sense or whatsoever. Also you are simply ignoring Mwk's title and the fact that Shanks himself is swordsman. Shanks on WB equal grounds? Well I can accept that, however that doesn't say anything about Mihawk. To be on equal grounds doesn't mean to be actually equal. And Shanks isn't WB's equal.

PS: I know exactly which page you are going to post now.

 

[Primecut]

Giving Shanks credit for splitting the sky makes no sense or whatsoever. Also you are simply ignoring Mwk's title and the fact that Shanks himself is swordsman. Shanks on WB equal grounds? Well I can accept that, however where is your prove that MWk isn't? To be on equal grounds doesn't mean to be actually equal.

My proof is that Vista was more than a match for him. Diamond Jose also stopped Mihawk in his tracks as did other Shichibukai. Being stopped by Whitebeard's lower captains means he isnt WB level at all...otherwise he would have beat them. Whitebeard looks like he could one shot a lot of those guys based on what he did during this war. When nearly did it took two hits to KO/kill Akainu, had Blackbeard beat in one slash, etc...full health Whitebeard would slaughterhouse Mihawk, he didnt even flinch at that slash coming toward him.

 

[Fox666]

He doesn't need to cut ice, he already split the sky by clashing with Whitebeard, its a higher feat. Dont ask a guy who can level buildings to level a shed, just as you dont ask Shanks to cut icebergs when he has done bigger and better already. Since he was on the same ground as the World's Strongest Man and Mihawk isnt...well...powerscaling for Shanks isnt even necessary anymore, he is just stronger due to the Whitebeard incident alone. The Haki factor makes it that much more of a slaughterhouse for Shanks.

Well, I cannot argue with you if you talk as if he literally "cut the heavens". It's obvious for me that it is something poethic.

And I am not trying to offend you or anything. I am serious there.

My proof is that Vista was more than a match for him. Diamond Jose also stopped Mihawk in his tracks as did other Shichibukai. Being stopped by Whitebeard's lower captains means he isnt WB level at all...otherwise he would have beat them. Whitebeard looks like he could one shot a lot of those guys based on what he did during this war. When nearly did it took two hits to KO/kill Akainu, had Blackbeard beat in one slash, etc...full health Whitebeard would slaughterhouse Mihawk, he didnt even flinch at that slash coming toward him.

Whitebeard owned Akainu, after being owned by all of the admirals. There is no "one shot kill".

There is no big gap in power beetween these guys. Look at Marco x admirals and Whitebeard x admirals. It's simply why Mihawk cannot take down Vista in their five minutes battle.

 

[BlackHair]

My proof is that Vista was more than a match for him. Diamond Jose also stopped Mihawk in his tracks as did other Shichibukai. Being stopped by Whitebeard's lower captains means he isnt WB level at all...otherwise he would have beat them. Whitebeard looks like he could one shot a lot of those guys based on what he did during this war. When nearly did it took two hits to KO/kill Akainu, had Blackbeard beat in one slash, etc...full health Whitebeard would slaughterhouse Mihawk, he didnt even flinch at that slash coming toward him.

1. Oda is keeping Mihawk for his final, Mihawk was never dead serious. We have seen just the tip of his arsenal.
2. Don't lock down on Jozu and Vista, they are high tier themselves. Im pretty sure they would keep Shanks busy as well.
3. Shanks and Mihawk are weaker than WB. He would simply murder both of them.

So your logic is that Shanks is a red-haired Whitebeard without a moustache?! Bullshit. WB is a monster on his own regard, he has the capability to kill almost every character in the entire story with less effort.

 

[Schabrak]

At the same time you had Mihawk on the top ten despite the facts that:

1> Vista was more than a match for him

Give a reason why he was more?

2> Lower tier Shichibukai were holding him off

And this lower tier is Crocodile? The man that got his ability mastered on a very high level and is a swordsman himself. Crocodiles appearance should have shown you, that he is as strong as ever. Will you ever get it, that A > B and B > C does not mean A > C. This[your reasoning] is not One Piece!

3> Buggy toyed with him

The way around, Mihawk did play with Buggy. Start reading the manga we do...

4> Luffy evaded him (despite Mihawk apologizing to Shanks that he won't hold back).

Just shows us, that Luffy has grown up a bit and have worked on his agility. Here it's shown under what circumstances he got to Luffy and cut him: http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/561/02/ , http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/561/03/
It get's pretty obvious, that he did just say those words here http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/561/09/ to provoke Luffy. Not accepting that is pretty foolish.

5> Diamond Joz punked his World's Strongest Slash early on.

Would you stop calling it the strongest slash he could made. It was not direct so it wasn't the best he could do.It was just stated so by a bystander, not himself. It's just that a nearly Unstoppable Force met the Immovable Object. Would it be a different thing if we saw them clash body vs sword? Yes it would, but it did not.

Do those waves look little? http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/552/18-19/ - http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/553/04-05/ Absolutly not.

Can we rate a Character who wasn never shown in a fight besides the first chapter, namely Shanks? We probably should not. The only thing shown was, that he is damn strong + and has hakoshou haki. What more? Absolutly nothing. Did I say he was weak or normal or just strong? Never.

We can't argue, that he is the best swordsman, just like we can't argue about WB being the strongest man. Source: Odacchi himself in his own Manga.. :E

You are praising Shanks like a god, would a believer get of his words and beliefs? Not, just like you. You attach miracles to him, like you had thousand proofs, but you have none, just like you have no proof that Shanks did split the sky. He did not by himself, he did not with just his sword. It's just an outburst of clashing hakoshou haki. Which does nothing but take out weak people, creates shockwaves of wind and in this case split the sky.

 

[RichardMNixon]

If you can "cut" the sky, you can cut air. You can cut space. You can cut a black hole. You can cut emotions. These are all things that are immaterial, and impossible to "cut".

If we believe that "cutting the sky" was really just splitting the clouds,

THAT IS MY POINT! I've said that eighteen times. It's on a completely different level from cutting ice. There is cosmic shit going on in that clash.

Why would we believe that when Joz explicitly stated that it wasn't true? http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/434/16-17/
Was Joz lying to hype haki or is he just stupid?

What are you assuming here anyway? A [weather] DF?

For the third time, no! Haki is willpower. I'm suggesting his will is so strong it influences the world around him. The weather reflects his mood, the sky divides when the two Haoshokus face off, etc.

Well, I cannot argue with you if you talk as if he literally "cut the heavens". It's obvious for me that it is something poethic.

Ahh, so everything Shanks done is just hype and romanticism, but World's Strongest Swordsman isn't just a romantic title but actually a literal and explicit explanation that he can kill anyone in the world who fights with a sword?

Why? Would you mind posting your thoughts on that. It seems this is our source for disagreement, that's why Im curious about it.

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/574/07/
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/567/05/
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/518/15/

"Haki users," "using haki," it's clearly painted as a distinct skill.

Why do you think it shouldn't be? Was Kaku not a swordsman and a rokushiki user, but just a swordsman who could also use rokushiki to help his swordsmanship? Did Ohm not have swordsmanship and mantra?

 

[Fox666]

Ahh, so everything Shanks done is just hype and romanticism, but World's Strongest Swordsman isn't just a romantic title but actually a literal and explicit explanation that he can kill anyone in the world who fights with a sword?

No, but the word "heavens" is romanticism.

You cannot cut the heaven, just because there is no such thing like heavens.

They could have said something like "that burst not hit the clouds... it hit God!" instead of that.

 

[Schabrak]

- Shanks, more Mihawk!!

Ahh, so everything Shanks done is just hype and romanticism, but World's Strongest Swordsman isn't just a romantic title but actually a literal and explicit explanation that he can kill anyone in the world who fights with a sword?

Did one ever say, that he would will against anyone? No, just that he is the greatest swordsman of the world. Not only that, but the invincible swordsman too. http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/50/12/

Being that does not make him outmatch every enemy who could help by using their own skills, of which are plenty available in One Piece. Being the one Zorro aims to win against to show that he is the best should be the one kwown to the world as the ... greatest[again]. Yonkou and Shichibukai, just as Marines are known by the world, so it must be this one at the top of them all.

 

[Lord Rayleigh]

I think that we can all consider that when the sky got cut, it was because of Shanks and Whitebeard's clash. It was something that happened suddenly when they fought and that both of their experienced crew acknowledged as their doing.

Shanks'sword and WB's bisento clashed but I doubt what happened to the sky was because of the physical strenght they put into their weapon. Otherwise, not only the sky would have been affected, but above all, the people and the objects around them, which are really closer from the epicentre of the clash.
The only viable explanation I've got is that the sky got cut because when their weapon met, their high level of Haki clashed too. After all, Shanks had already freed a lot of his Haki when he came on the board, and when Shanks and WB fought, it was because they disagreed about the Ace and BB matter. I guess that Shanks showed his Haki on the board, and when their weapon clashed, WB decided to do the same, to make sure Shanks understood that he is the WB and he decides everything by himself.

I had already shown this video but it's very interesting. It's above all about Luffy and Zoro but still interesting to compare it to WB and Shanks. Make sure you take time to read it properly : here

 

[Fox666]

Actually, the two ships moved because of the clash.

 

[DutchPhoenix]

about haki..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsOQU0t84HY&feature=related

zoro

 

[RichardMNixon]

You cannot cut the heaven, just because there is no such thing like heavens.

I don't know how many ways I can explain this. No, it doesn't make sense. THAT IS THE POINT! That's why it's so incredible. Doing something unreasonable is more impressive than doing something reasonable.
There are two possibilities. Whitebeard and Shanks have some inconceivable level of power that your puny mortal mind can't comprehend.
or
Joz is stupid or a liar.

Did one ever say, that he would will against anyone?

I never said anyone did, I said people claimed Mihawk could beat anyone using a sword. If your argument is "he's the greatest, therefore he'd beat Shanks because Shanks is a swordsman," then that is exactly what you're saying. Mihawk can kill anyone who fights with a sword?

It's just an outburst of clashing hakoshou haki. Which does nothing but take out weak people, creates shockwaves of wind and in this case split the sky.

Excuse me? You think the entire Marine forces shit themselves because Luffy is able to knock out a bunch of useless fodder and do pretty magic tricks? Haoshoku is a big fucking deal. At the very least we've also seen it used to give commands to enemies, and enemies with powerful haki in their own regard at that: http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/519/18/

Hancock is "strong!" and she hasn't even mastered haoshoku yet (or was that an odd translation? I forget the controversy there.). Shanks has been hyped as THE haki user, how strong will he be if he has mastered it.

I ask again, is Ohm a swordsman who can also use mantra, or just a swordsman whose swordsmanship is improved by mantra?

<hr noshade size="1">

about haki..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TsOQU0t84HY&feature=related

zoro

For one: we don't know Rayleigh has haoshoku. If he doesn't, then knocking out fodder isn't what makes haoshoku special.

For two: that wasn't quite the same response. I'm definitely not ruling out that it could have been haki, but it also could have been some other kind of intimidation. Did it have the haki noise?

 

[Fox666]

I don't know how many ways I can explain this. No, it doesn't make sense. THAT IS THE POINT! That's why it's so incredible. Doing something unreasonable is more impressive than doing something reasonable.
There are two possibilities. Whitebeard and Shanks have some inconceivable level of power that your puny mortal mind can't comprehend.
or
Joz is stupid or a liar.

The pirates (not Jozu) who said that the sky opened are not lying or being stupid. They are fictional characters without obligation of giving scientific literal information.


"The sea is blue." When I tell you this I am being stupid of lying?

I had already shown this video but it's very interesting. It's above all about Luffy and Zoro but still interesting to compare it to WB and Shanks. Make sure you take time to read it properly : here

Looks FAKE to me. It looks like just a basic photoshop effect. Not to say that Zoro and Luffy have a white background in this picture:

Spoiler

 

[kkck]

I had already shown this video but it's very interesting. It's above all about Luffy and Zoro but still interesting to compare it to WB and Shanks. Make sure you take time to read it properly : here

That only appears in the anime. The manga does not show nor it even tries to make a half vague attempt to imply such a thing. I would think the animators wanted to take the expression "you could cut the tension with a knife" a step further. Only vague mention of haki ever to appear in the manga regarding zoro's haki is this:
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/401/04/
And if you stretch it you could say zoro's asura when it first appeared was vaguely similar to haki.

 

[Fox666]

Actually, when Zoro used Azura, Kaku also comment "his spirit is so strong that it makes an illusion" or something on that line.

Can someone who knows japanese translate?

 

[RichardMNixon]

The pirates (not Jozu) who said that the sky opened are not lying or being stupid. They are fictional characters without obligation of giving scientific literal information.

Are you serious? You think Oda made a concerted effort to have his characters say something true, then take it back, and say something untrue?

Zeff doesn't have any obligation to be correct in calling Mihawk the greatest swordsman either. Mihawk's title is "World's Greatest Swordsman" but there's no obligation for his title to actually be true. Maybe Shiryuu is better than him. See how ridiculous this is?

 

[kkck]

I don't think we have enough info to determine whether mihawk is as strong as shanks or even how strong he is. This is what we know for a fact:

1.- Years ago mihawk had an overwhelming victory against zoro. Zoro at that point would have been fodder against people who would be fodder against people mihawk would consider fodder though.

2.- Shanks did not hold back against WB (from the start he had his haki output at full capacity given what we saw) and the clash resulted in the heavens being split apart (as the other pirates noted).

3.- Mihawk gave luffy the fodder treatment and it was pretty much as bad as when zoro got it. That would mean even though luffy has had a more than significant increase in power since then, it actually makes no difference against someone so overwhelmingly powerful.

4.- Shanks casually cut down miles and miles and hundreds of tons of ice merely as a side effect of a fight against fodder. Perhaps he meant to cut the ice but given that luffy actually avoided the hit I would think it did not have nearly as much power or speed as it could have had.

Given this, we simply don't have enough info to go on this. We have only seen Shanks allegedly going all out against WB in a confrontation which went nowhere and mihawk casually trashing out heroes and one unknowing iceberg who never saw it coming. Who knows what can happen if mihawk actually goes all out.... He could actually be as strong or even stronger than shanks but he could also be at the normal shichibukai level or commander level. In turn, we have no idea of how strong shanks is so perhaps he is not as strong as we have been lead to believe and he would actually be about as strong as any other shichibukai or WB commander.

 

[RichardMNixon]

[0.-]I don't think we have enough info to determine whether mihawk is as strong as shanks or even how strong he is. This is what we know for a fact:

1.- Years ago mihawk had an overwhelming victory against zoro. Zoro at that point would have been fodder against people who would be fodder against people mihawk would consider fodder though.

2.- Shanks did not hold back against WB (from the start he had his haki output at full capacity given what we saw) and the clash resulted in the heavens being split apart (as the other pirates noted).

3.- Mihawk gave luffy the fodder treatment and it was pretty much as bad as when zoro got it. That would mean even though luffy has had a more than significant increase in power since then, it actually makes no difference against someone so overwhelmingly powerful.

4.- Shanks casually cut down miles and miles and hundreds of tons of ice merely as a side effect of a fight against fodder. Perhaps he meant to cut the ice but given that luffy actually avoided the hit I would think it did not have nearly as much power or speed as it could have had.

Given this, we simply don't have enough info to go on this. We have only seen Shanks allegedly going all out against WB in a confrontation which went nowhere and mihawk casually trashing out heroes and one unknowing iceberg who never saw it coming. Who knows what can happen if mihawk actually goes all out.... He could actually be as strong or even stronger than shanks but he could also be at the normal shichibukai level or commander level. In turn, we have no idea of how strong shanks is so perhaps he is not as strong as we have been lead to believe and he would actually be about as strong as any other shichibukai or WB commander.

0. Perhaps not, no.

1. I'd take out at least one of those fodder iterations but point taken.

2. I disagree. He said "a little threat" and their crews agreed that it was not a war. Neither of them went all-in.

3. I disagree again. Zoro never dodged one of Mihawk's attacks, did he? And at that point Mihawk was using his dagger. Luffy dodged most attacks from the black blade. He's still a long way off, but he did a lot better than Baratie-Zoro.

4. Mihawk said himself that he wouldn't hold back. Again, Mihawk played with Zoro, parrying his attacks for a while and then making surgical strikes that never missed. Contrarily, against Luffy he was on active offense and Luffy managed to dodge. Don't get me wrong, Luffy had no chance of winning, but he was close enough to go a few rounds.

 

[superman97]

I think Shanks direct comparison to the previous generation would have to be Rayleigh. They both use a sword and have mastery over Kings Haki. And I just cant see Mihawk being more powerful thing Rayleigh in his prime or even now. Also if Shanks attacked Whitebeard like Mihawk did I doubt Jozu would be willing to jump in front of it, I would bet that Whitebeard would take care of that himself.

And the iceberg is a bad comparison in my opinion. its like saying because aokiji can freeze the ocean he could have just froze the battlefield and everyone on it.

and if we go back to ace hand morgan http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/6/15/. who was one of the weakest villains we have seen he was able to cut a metal fence in half without contact. I would assume ice is easier to cut then metal.