Canon Shanks vs Mihawk

[kkck]

How do we even know that raileight had kings haki? Now it will turn out anyone who shows haki will have that lol. He had haki and a lot of it seeing how he sent a bunch of people to sleep but saying it was kings haki with no statements from the manga is a bit much.

 

[superman97]

How do we even know that raileight had kings haki? Now it will turn out anyone who shows haki will have that lol. He had haki and a lot of it seeing how he sent a bunch of people to sleep but saying it was kings haki with no statements from the manga is a bit much.

I don't understand why everyone is so afraid to say specific people have Kings Haki. Logically speaking, the ONLY THING Luffy did was cause people to faint, and from that ONE act did people say it was Kings Haki http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/519/18/. The Kuja amazons said that one in a million people have kings haki.... if the One Piece World has 6 billion people like the real world then that means there should be roughly 6000 people in the One Piece world with Kings Haki (I don't believe that there are 6000 people with it though I was just using an example to show it is not farfetched). If Rayleigh is a legend and has shown the single distinguishing factor for Kings Haki, I do not see how you can reasonably argue that it is not Kings Haki.

And to ask you a question, how would you as a reader and fan of One Piece react if someone who doesn't have Kings Haki walks in a room and 'eye balls' them all to faint. I would call that a plot hole because then there is no difference betweeen Kings Haki and regular Haki.

 

[Fox666]

One note, King Haki is the power the rule over the others. What Luffy does is not just make people faint, but they obey Luffy before doing so.

When Luffy said to the Boa sisters stop, they put the status in the ground. Since usually Luffy just say to stop while using Haki, you don't see much of this power. To both Motobaro and wolves Luffy said to "stay back", and they did so.

So Luffy didn't just make the executors faint, but they moved back their blades.

 

[superman97]

One note, King Haki is the power the rule over the others. What Luffy does is not just make people faint, but they obey Luffy before doing so.

When Luffy said to the Boa sisters stop, they put the status in the ground. Since usually Luffy just say to stop while using Haki, you don't see much of this power. To both Motobaro and wolves Luffy said to "stay back", and they did so.

So Luffy didn't just make the executors faint, but they moved back their blades.

In my opinion the Motobaro case was Luffys first time using Haki, thus it not being strong enough to make him faint on the spot, but he did faint regardless.

In the Boa sisters case their will was strong enough to not pass out but still be stunned momentarily by the haki. This wouldn't be the first time normal haki users didn't get knocked out by Kings haki when others did. An example would be Shanks meeting with Whitebeard when Marco and Jozu didn't who are 2 confirmed haki users didnt faint.

The only 5 scenarios that orders using haki were given and worked were the Marlboro who fainted, the executioners who fainted, the wolves, the sea king who shanks told to go away, and the boa sisters who I already discussed. I would be willing to argue that the only way for Luffy to use his haki is harness it into an emotional command, which someone as experienced as Rayleigh doesn't need to do anymore.

All that Rayleigh did was give the 'eye ball' and cause an entire auditorium to faint, and I don't doubt if he yelled at them to get out they would have ran out with most fainting as they attempted to evacuate.

 

[kkck]

We have no idea is the whole thing where people faint is due to specifically the haokusho haki or simply due to huge amounts of haki. Perhaps it is a combination of both. I would find it weird that the kings haki give luffy in any way the ability to control others to any extent though. Rather than him having the capacity to control others it would seem he surprised a bunch of people to the point it led to a halt in whatever they were doing (and to take him seriously as an enemy).

 

[BlackHair]

I said people claimed Mihawk could beat anyone using a sword.

Who are you referring to? I have been on this thread since post #1 and I can't remember anyone using such a wide open definition as u did. If by touching a sword it makes you automatically a swordsman, then Roger is also one. We have every reason to believe that he is not a swordsman. Swordsman are those who are primarily using swordsmanship as their fighting style.

Why do you think it shouldn't be?

Cause Haki as the only skill can't beat equal foes. I consider distinct skills which can be used to beat equal and stronger opponents, by only using that skill. Haki is not one of them, since it is used as boost skill or a support skill. It can be used with any other fightings style, but solely haki won't help you beating strong guys.

Did Ohm not have swordsmanship and mantra?

Mantra is like haki a support/boost skill skill. I don't see how mantra alone can beat ur equal opponent. You need the proper physical skills to back that up.

For the third time, no! Haki is willpower. I'm suggesting his will is so strong it influences the world around him. The weather reflects his mood, the sky divides when the two Haoshokus face off, etc.

Rly third time already? I thought it would be the second time. Sry about that, I did remember asking you this, but couldn't remember ur answer.

Haki was newly introduced with Shanks. I wouldn't search for haki happenings in the manga prior to that event on WB's hip. Except if Oda himself notes that, like on Jaya with Luffy and BB. However it doesn't outrules your theory. Personally Im still with my opinion though.

 

[RichardMNixon]

I would call that a plot hole because then there is no difference betweeen Kings Haki and regular Haki.

This is only a plot hole if you assume that all haoshoku does is knock people out. I would be pretty disappointed if that was the case.

I am positing there are differences that we aren't fully aware of yet. One difference could be that the "targets" obey (putting down Margaret) rather than just fall out, but that isn't explicitly clear yet either. As terrified as the marines are of Luffy having it, I would expect it to do more than just knock weaklings unconscious. Luffy knocked out 1000 people with his fists at Enies Lobby. Why does he need another way to do it?

I don't see how mantra alone can beat ur equal opponent.

Well then the argument is in how you define equal. If Bill and Bob are equal in swordsmanship, but Bob has mantra in addition to his swordsmanship, Bob wins. Or would you consider mantra a part of swordsmanship, such that being equal in swordsmanship already includes Bob's mantra?

If by touching a sword it makes you automatically a swordsman

No, I said using a sword, not touching one. The distinction between using a sword and being a swordsman is my argument that you can be swordsman + something else.

by only using that skill

Why? Why do you have to use that skill alone? I didn't say Shanks will beat Mihawk's sword with haki, I said he'd beat it with his own sword+haki. Kaku was a swordsman. An equal swordsman would lose to him because of rokushiki and his DF. Kaku would still be using swords in combination with his rokushiki and DF, he would just also have rokushiki. Just as someone of similar or slightly greater skill with a sword would lose to Shanks because of his outrageous haki.

Also what reasons do we have to believe Roger isn't a swordsman but Shanks is? Is he a gunman then? http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/565.5/08/

 

[bittman]

I would not rate Kaku as a swordsman, but:

Would you rate Zoro at "similar" or "Slightly greater" skill with a sword than Kaku? In which case, Zoro ONLY has swords, whereas Kaku had at least 2 other tools (or skills, however you see it) at his disposal. Despite having a whole host of tools at his disposal, he lost to Zoro.

Thank you for reminding me of this battle, because it is a perfect example for what I've been arguing (and possibly Blackhair and others?). Kaku had plenty of other things to work with over Zoro who only had his three swords. Both had insane physical ability, and combat wise they ended up quite close to each other. However this combat ability was a culimination of their total skills in various tools. Zoro was exceptionally skilled at the sword, Kaku skilled with his Rokushiki (and growing with a devil fruit) and swords. Despite Kaku having extra tools, Zoro was able to emerge victorious. So having extra tools, does not guarentee you victory, or even always guarentee you an edge.

Shanks, like Kaku, has an extra tool. This does not guarentee him dominance over Mihawk and his one tool. Of course, it adds to his combat ability. But unless you can somehow prove to me that Shanks has swordsmanship on any scale comparable to Mihawk (which we can't given we've only see Shanks swing it once), it's impossible to rate Shanks over Mihawk based on haki + swordsmanship.

Of course, I'm not saying Shanks might not have swordsmanship comparable to Mihawk. And then, if he does have haki and Mihawk doesn't on top of that, then he would be greater than Mihawk most likely, or it would still be close.

These are kind of the points I've been trying to get across. Since it's impossible to see a difference on reputation and what has currently been shown thus far, it comes mainly from prediction, and I honestly could not predict to you a winner. I just find too many Shanks arguments ridiculous, and it's obvious many were unimpressed with Mihawk in this war.

In my opinion, they are both end-gamers. Both the goals of the strongest two Strawhat's who are always of comparable strength. I would like Mihawk to be stronger than Shanks on story progression, but it could easily be the reverse.

 

[RichardMNixon]

Of course, I'm not saying Shanks might not have swordsmanship comparable to Mihawk.

My impression from the reference to their duels was that he does, but the whole discussion does essentially hinge on that, so there's probably nothing more to say.

 

[BlackHair]

Why? Why do you have to use that skill alone?

Isn't that the point in calling it distinct skill? If that skill can't be used to fight strong opponents, but only in addition with a another skill, then it is a support/boost skill. Or whatever you wanne call it like.

I don't consider it as a distinct skill, since there is more needed than haki alone to beat strong guys. Same case with Mantra. That's why I think haki is included in Mihawks title.

Also what reasons do we have to believe Roger isn't a swordsman but Shanks is? Is he a gunman then? http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/565.5/08/

Since Luffy seems to be a new born version of Roger (basically a v2), I highly doubt that he is a swordsman. I would consider Roger as a all-round fighter (one of these guys who are good with everything).

About Shanks being a swordsman, well I posted that already. Sry, but kinda pissed off at the new chapter, no intention to post long here.

I would like Mihawk to be stronger than Shanks on story progression

Im with you. Mihawk should be stronger, since he is the last goal for one of the protagonists. While Shanks seems to me as a regular support character. One of those who are watching the protagonists back, but are not necessarily on the front line. Thus Mihawk has imo a higher value in the story regarding battle power.

btw I wouldn't consider Kaku as a swordsman either. I have been searching around and it seems he was never officially stated as one.

 

[Fox666]

You guy don't forget that it's rare to someone only fight with swords in One Piece world. We can only name characters like that when we barely saw them fighting, like Shiryu or Vista.

Zoro can throw a building. And even more weird, make his muscles increase like USSJ Vegeta.

What about Mihawk? Creating air blades with a sword is swordmanship? Is eagle vision swordmanship?

So, if we will gonna put Zoro and Mihawk extra abilities in the balance, we should do the same with Shanks Haki. Although that I must admit that it's up to the author decide what "greatest/invincible sworman" title is worth.

 

[BlackHair]

I agree. There are more factors to calculate other than swordsmanship to determine the best swordsman. His title puts Mwk above everyone who are using swordsmanship as their primary fighting skill. But that doesn't necessarily say he has the best swordsmanship. Infact there could be still a better man in pure swordsmanship (for instance this shadow dude). Other factor would be agility, brutal strength, stamina, experience, will (haki) etc.

In short Im saying that Mwk's title doesn't say "the best guy in swordsmanship", but rather "the strongest man in swordfights". To be the strongest you need more than one skill (swordsmanship).

 

[DLord.Van.Buuren]

I agree. There are more factors to calculate other than swordsmanship to determine the best swordsman. His title puts Mwk above everyone who are using swordsmanship as their primary fighting skill. But that doesn't necessarily say he has the best swordsmanship. Infact there could be still a better man in pure swordsmanship (for instance this shadow dude). Other factor would be agility, brutal strength, stamina, experience, will (haki) etc.

In short Im saying that Mwk's title doesn't say "the best guy in swordsmanship", but rather "the strongest man in swordfights". To be the strongest you need more than one skill (swordsmanship).

i agree that mihawk will cut anyone using a sword against him . but i would like to think that he can counter non swordsman and still owen them .

 

[Gcat88]

I know that every Shanks fan says the same thing but it is true, it was stated that losing an arm has not made him weaker, and he has fought on par with Mihawk. I am not saying Shanks would win, but i doubt he would lose.

 

[RichardMNixon]

Since Luffy seems to be a new born version of Roger (basically a v2), I highly doubt that he is a swordsman. I would consider Roger as a all-round fighter (one of these guys who are good with everything).

btw I wouldn't consider Kaku as a swordsman either. I have been searching around and it seems he was never officially stated as one.

"Good with everything" doesn't describe Luffy at all.

http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/401/05/
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/401/06/ He self-describes his fighting style as four swords.

Also the way things are shaping up now, I feel like Shiryuu is as likely a candidate for Zoro's last fight as Mihawk is. There's no reason he can't be the greatest swordsman prior to the end of the manga, Luffy even said he'll need to be the greatest if he's in the PK's crew. It would also be pretty anti-climactic if Luffy becomes PK and then Zoro is like, oh hey Mihawk, btw, let's fight again.

 

[Gcat88]

It was once stated that in order for Luffy to become PK he has to beat everyone, even the worlds best swordsman. I think that is a foreshadow to a Luffy Zoro fight. Shiryuu might be the last person Zoro fights; that would also mean that the BB crew is the last crew the SH fight.

 

[DLord.Van.Buuren]

^ in order to become a pirate king you have to take OP so if buggy does that he is then a pirate king . but if you defeat the PK king then you gain the title now mihawk isnt the PK batteling him is no good than a waste . and ZORO VS MIHAWK is the clearest forshadowing in this manga so lets not jump on assumptions .

 

[Franckie]

I know that every Shanks fan says the same thing but it is true, it was stated that losing an arm has not made him weaker, and he has fought on par with Mihawk. I am not saying Shanks would win, but i doubt he would lose.

It was stated that the strength of Shanks' Haki hasn't weakened. He's unlikely as strong as he was 10+ years ago since he lost the usage of his dominant hand. Mihawk also doesn't consider Shanks a worthy opponent anymore.

 

[Truefan21]

Just like Whitebeard who was the strongest man in the world which some fans doubt but were proven wrong the same the thing will happen to mihawk. His title basically means that no other swordsman in the world is above him in swordsman ship. Its as simple as that. So this mean that shanks is not above him.

I think the problem is its because he is a shichibukai instead of a yonkou. If he were the former no one would doubt his power but since its the latter persons tend to underrate him.

 

[Fox666]

I know that every Shanks fan says the same thing but it is true, it was stated that losing an arm has not made him weaker, and he has fought on par with Mihawk. I am not saying Shanks would win, but i doubt he would lose.

Which contradicts the series, as Mihawk says something like "it's not funny to fight a one-armed man like you". I think that this is the same Databook that stated that Whitebeard didn't loose any power with age, which we know is not true... at least, I would take the series first.