Discussion Shichibukai Vs Yonkou

[beastboy]

if it his 4 vs 7 no crew interfierence.. than WB is enough for 5 shichi's, shanks stays with mihawk and the other 2 stay with the one left ^^

 

[RichardMNixon]

WB is the strongest man as well as the most powerfullest pirate. Powerful means crew (+alliance) power. His union (crew+alliance) is the strongest. Their is nothing to debate about that.

There have been several hints in the mange, which lets me conclude that Shanks is a swordsman. And ur comparison with Jozu/Mwk and WB/Shanks, doesn't put Shanks above Mwk for every logical reason.

We saw Shanks use a sword once, and it was against WB's polearm. Should we have assumed that WB is just the world's greatest bisentosman and that if anyone came around better with a bisento he would be able to beat Whitebeard? Shanks uses a sword yes, that doesn't mean his skill with a sword is the only thing he's got.

 

[BlackHair]

We saw Shanks use a sword once, and it was against WB's polearm. Should we have assumed that WB is just the world's greatest bisentosman and that if anyone came around better with a bisento he would be able to beat Whitebeard? Shanks uses a sword yes, that doesn't mean his skill with a sword is the only thing he's got.

I wasn't referring to that clash, as I was talking about hints..

• Shanks and Mwk were called rivals. Mwk is clearly a swordsman and a rival of a swordsman can be only another swordsman, Shanks
• Swordsman fight only with their swords, like Zoro so far every time did, except for comedic purpose. Here we see the SHs get read for their fight with their preferred weapon. Now here Shanks and Buggy on Roger's ship. Plz note Zoro and Shanks, who are pulling their swords.

There are also some other hints stated in the red datebook. Anyway, Shanks is a swordsman until he starts with karate or w/e skills.

 

[RichardMNixon]

I wasn't referring to that clash, as I was talking about hints..

• 
  
  
  1. Shanks and Mwk were called rivals. Mwk is clearly a swordsman and a rival of a swordsman can be only another swordsman, Shanks
  2. Swordsman fight only with their swords, like Zoro so far every time did, except for comedic purpose. Here we see the SHs get read for their fight with their preferred weapon. Now here Shanks and Buggy on Roger's ship. Plz note Zoro and Shanks, who are pulling their swords.

There are also some other hints stated in the red datebook. Anyway, Shanks is a swordsman until he starts with karate or w/e skills.

1. Err... what? So Kidd, Smoker, Law, or Zoro can't be Luffy's rival because they don't fight with fists? If Zoro is a better swordsman than Kizaru, does that mean Zoro will win if Kizaru fights with his lightsaber?

2. So Shanks fights the same way now he did ~23 years ago? Skills? His haki damaged Whitebeard's ship without even trying to, what will happen if Shanks actually focuses it? Kamehamehaki? Just because Mihawk would beat him in a fencing match doesn't mean he'd win in a real fight.

 

[BlackHair]

1. Err... what? So Kidd, Smoker, Law, or Zoro can't be Luffy's rival because they don't fight with fists? If Zoro is a better swordsman than Kizaru, does that mean Zoro will win if Kizaru fights with his lightsaber?

2. So Shanks fights the same way now he did ~23 years ago? Skills? His haki damaged Whitebeard's ship without even trying to, what will happen if Shanks actually focuses it? Kamehamehaki? Just because Mihawk would beat him in a fencing match doesn't mean he'd win in a real fight.

It seems you are not taking my post seriously and Im feeling retarded to answer on yours.. but well, I guess this is called life.. huh?

1. They were called rival since they were both aiming for the top as swordsman.

Kidd and Law are Luffy's rivals, since all three are aiming for the throne as the PK. Smoker and Zoro.. why are they now considered as rivals of Luffy? They don't even have the same goal. And about ur question: Yes, if he was a better swordsman (with haki control) then he would.

2. Reread the Kuja arc. Haki can be imbued with weapons. Means Shanks would power up his sword with haki, same for Mwk (I believe). Did u expect Shanks to shoot some kind of haki laser?

So Shanks fights the same way now he did ~23 years ago?

Why not? Can u proof sth else? I expect Zoro to fight with his swords for his entire life. Same goes for Sanji's feet moves and Luffy's rubber moves. But everything will be added with haki and they would be faster and stronger. I don't see a reason for Shanks to change his fighting style, even if he lost a arm.

I had this discussion over and over. And always the same story. Ppl assuming that Shanks would use a different fighting style. If that is so then proof it and we could stop wasting time.

Just a side note of mine: Haki is not a fighting style! It can be considered as a power up or lets say a better fuel, but nothing more.

 

[RichardMNixon]

It seems you are not taking my post seriously and Im feeling retarded to answer on yours.. but well, I guess this is called life.. huh?

1. They were called rival since they were both aiming for the top as swordsman.

Kidd and Law are Luffy's rivals, since all three are aiming for the throne as the PK. Smoker and Zoro.. why are they now considered as rivals of Luffy? They don't even have the same goal. And about ur question: Yes, if he was a better swordsman (with haki control) then he would.

2. Reread the Kuja arc. Haki can be imbued with weapons. Means Shanks would power up his sword with haki, same for Mwk (I believe). Did u expect Shanks to shoot some kind of haki laser?


Why not? Can u proof sth else? I expect Zoro to fight with his swords for his entire life. Same goes for Sanji's feet moves and Luffy's rubber moves. But everything will be added with haki and they would be faster and stronger. I don't see a reason for Shanks to change his fighting style, even if he lost a arm.

I had this discussion over and over. And always the same story. Ppl assuming that Shanks would use a different fighting style. If that is so then proof it and we could stop wasting time.

Just a side note of mine: Haki is not a fighting style! It can be considered as a power up or lets say a better fuel, but nothing more.

So the fact that Kizaru can move at the speed of light is irrelevant? Zoro is better with a sword so he'll kill Kizaru?

I'm aware that haki can infuse weapons. Are you presuming Mihawk has as much of it as Shanks does? We've never seen any indication of Mihawk using it and Shanks practically uses it for fun. He split the sky. When he saw Luffy's bounty and went from gloomy to happy, the sky brightened up with him. I'm not saying he won't use a sword, I'm saying his skill with a sword isn't the whole extent of his abilities in a fight.

And tell Sentoumaru and Sandersonia that haki isn't a fighting style. Is Rokushiki just a power up and not a fighting style? Is Morgan's axe not his fighting style, just a power up for his karate chops? Franky's cyborg parts are just a power up? Where do you draw the line?

I am hoping for a haki laser for sheer absurdity, yes, but I don't expect it.

 

[BlackHair]

So the fact that Kizaru can move at the speed of light is irrelevant? Zoro is better with a sword so he'll kill Kizaru?

Rayleigh a swordsman with control over haki was able to fight Kizaru pretty much equal. Ray proofed that Kiz's "speed of light" is irrelevant in a close ranch fights. Zoro as a swordsman is also close ranch fighter.

I'm aware that haki can infuse weapons. Are you presuming Mihawk has as much of it as Shanks does?

I am. I don't have any proofs though. At this point to my understanding everyone has haki. Since it is willpower (ambiation). It's just about controlling it. I don't see why Mwk shouldn't have control over haki. Since he will fight Zoro and since he is presented as one of those strongest in One Piece.

I'm not saying he won't use a sword, I'm saying his skill with a sword isn't the whole extent of his abilities in a fight.

If his fighting style is based on swords, then he is a swordsman. So far we have no indication that he uses sth else.

And tell Sentoumaru and Sandersonia that haki isn't a fighting style. Is Rokushiki just a power up and not a fighting style? Is Morgan's axe not his fighting style, just a power up for his karate chops? Franky's cyborg parts are just a power up? Where do you draw the line?

Sentomaru used sumo moves, while he added it with haki. The Boa sisters, well I don't know how their fighting style is called, but they are close ranch fighters with control over haki. Rokushiki is a fighting style on its own created by Oda. I consider Franky and Morgan as weapon user.

My line in fighting styles and power-ups; Haki is a technique which can be added (imbued) in weapons and fists. It can be used to mind reading and makes df user tangible. However it can be used in combination with every fighting style. We have seen Rayleigh (swordsman), Luffy (bare-hand fighter), Sento (sumo) using it. I don't see haki as a fighting style on its own, since it is just a powerup which can be used with everything.

So yes, Shanks can use haki, but if he would wield a sword, then he would be still a swordsman.

Another power-up would be if u train ur muscles to become stronger and faster. That is also a power up, since you are using the same fighting style u used before, just faster and stronger.

 

[DEATHBOTT]

Rayleigh a swordsman with control over haki was able to fight Kizaru pretty much equal. Ray proofed that Kiz's "speed of light" is irrelevant in a close ranch fights. Zoro as a swordsman is also close ranch fighter.

I am. I don't have any proofs though. At this point to my understanding everyone has haki. Since it is willpower (ambiation). It's just about controlling it. I don't see why Mwk shouldn't have control over haki. Since he will fight Zoro and since he is presented as one of those strongest in One Piece.

If his fighting style is based on swords, then he is a swordsman. So far we have no indication that he uses sth else.

Sentomaru used sumo moves, while he added it with haki. The Boa sisters, well I don't know how their fighting style is called, but they are close ranch fighters with control over haki. Rokushiki is a fighting style on its own created by Oda. I consider Franky and Morgan as weapon user.

My line in fighting styles and power-ups; Haki is a technique which can be added (imbued) in weapons and fists. It can be used to mind reading and makes df user tangible. However it can be used in combination with every fighting style. We have seen Rayleigh (swordsman), Luffy (bare-hand fighter), Sento (sumo) using it. I don't see haki as a fighting style on its own, since it is just a powerup which can be used with everything.

So yes, Shanks can use haki, but if he would wield a sword, then he would be still a swordsman.

Another power-up would be if u train ur muscles to become stronger and faster. That is also a power up, since you are using the same fighting style u used before, just faster and stronger.

why do you say close ranch instead of range? anyway i reckon shanks would beat mihawk because of his haki. and wb would destroy the world so it woul be a draw.

 

[Rotten The Wizard]

how in the world did this discussion even get to 9 pages?

Whitebeard alone can probably decimate 4 shichibukai at the same time, it takes 2 of them to hold down someone of admiral calibre(Joz) Farless a yonkou
And it takes all of them plus the admirals to balance the yonkou so how the hell can they pull it off alone?

 

[DutchPhoenix]

so you think blackbeard + mihawk + kuma + doflamingo cant win vs whitebeard alone?

well whatever you say, mihawk is the stronger one between shanks and mihawk in 1:1 battle.
just shows how extreme powerfull mihawk is

 

[BlackHair]

why do you say close ranch instead of range?

Reread the fight with Rayleigh and u will understand why.

how in the world did this discussion even get to 9 pages?

Whitebeard alone can probably decimate 4 shichibukai at the same time, it takes 2 of them to hold down someone of admiral calibre(Joz) Farless a yonkou
And it takes all of them plus the admirals to balance the yonkou so how the hell can they pull it off alone?

First of all I persoanlly think WB is the strongest. Means he would beat anyone in a fair 1vs1. However you are exerarting him way too much. There is no way that WB can hold four Shichi all alone. Otherwise the war would be over already...

Also I don't see Croco+Flamingo = Jozu. They probably just teamed up to go against WB. Jozu is a mere stepstone. Nothing more. Not that I want to downplay Jozu here, that guy is surely a monster.

Yes you are right, they are all needed to balance the Yonko. However the Yonko (in this case WB) needs their crew as well. Organisations/crew fights in armies not 1vs 1!

Also side note: WB > Mwk > Shanks

 

[Rotten The Wizard]

lol yea Ive had this argument way too many times on this forum

When its finally proven that Shanks>Mihawkx2 I'll quote everyone who doubted it


But honestly? Dont you think That if Shanks was that weak(not to downplay mihawks strength) that the Marines wouldve taken him out already? All it would take is an Assault of two admirals and some vc's and a fleet.

if it were that easy they would be picking off the Yonkou 1 by 1

The marines fear each and every one for a reason

 

[BlackHair]

But honestly? Dont you think That if Shanks was that weak(not to downplay mihawks strength) that the Marines wouldve taken him out already?

No they can't. It's not like Shanks is sailing alone on the seas. He has a mighty crew. Like WB prates Jozu and Marco, must be Red-Haired prates Ben, Yasopp, and Lucky on last tier level as well. So the Marines has to fight a freaking monster crew.

For example as Kuma was after Luffy on TB, what did his crew do? They defended him with their own lives (Sanji and Zoro!). Same with Shanks crew. Do u think his cremates would allow their captain to fight a obvious unfair/loosing battle? Like vs 3 Admirals at once? Hell no!

As I said, crews/organisations fight in armies, not 1vs1. The current arc is the best damn proof for that.

The marines fear each and every one for a reason

Indeed.

 

[kkck]

So on one side we have the yonkou:

-Whitebeard
-Shanks
-Kaido
-Unknown

on the other we have the shichibukai:
-Mihawk
-Jimbei
-Moria
-Hancock
-Flamingo
-Kuma
-BB

Among the shichibukai at least mihawk and BB have been implied to be as strong as yonkou themselves. That is a big advantage for the shichibukai who already outnumber than yonkou.

Jimbei would be an extreme asset depending on how much water there is. He could attack at a range and even slow down fruit users with it.

Hancock can use haki so I would assume her attacks would be deadly against any yonkou. She also just kicked around and kept up with smokers movements easily so I would think she is extremely powerful. Can't wait to see what purpose her snake has in battle lol.

Flamingo has some weird abilities and is sort of a wildcard. He is strong but I think we need to see more of him.

Kuma is extremely powerful and can repel attacks. He can also attack at a range which is always good.

Moria just seems like the lesser of the shichibukai although he should not be underestimated. He could still make a difference in the battle.

The yonkou are kind of wildcards too. WB by now seems to be a lot stronger than admirals and shanks should be reasonable close to him(I do think WB is stronger than shanks though). As for the other two, I have no idea. They should be beasts too.

If the fight consists of the 4 emperors vs the seven shichibukai I would think the shichibukai would be victorious. All of the shichibukai are strong to the extreme and have the power to contribute in the battle. Not to mention they outnumber the yonkou.

Now if the battle consists of the emperors + crew vs shichibukai I would think the yonkou would destroy the shichibukai. Not even a fight here lol.

 

[vinsky]

Phew...
i forgot that i have a thread like this

hmm...
now the time was coming up...
WB + alliance Vs Marine + Shicibukai
But we know that....Not at all shicibukai help Marine...
u can see that Boa was attacking marine too...
she join battle just for to keep her status in shicibukai
lol

CMIIW

 

[madmotoristmonk]

before his surgery i would've put Kuma under the "people with uber df ability/ nigh unbeatable list" But after he got galaxy winked like a chump, i'ma hafta reconsider.

I'd seriously consider the shichibukai, based on what we know of the two groups now just for sheer numbers. Lets look at who we got on each squad

1. The baddest swordsman in the world, a so called "monster superior to monsters" i.e.=Zoro. You saw that huge slash he just ripped out almost casually, for a "test". And the fact that he seems so collected, even during the chaos of this war is indicative of a calm and confident mind. I don't think he'd have a problem going against any yonkou (note i didn't say win.

2. The Pimp Of the Sea. We don't know Doflamingo's powers completely yet, but suffice to say that anyone who can make a beast like Jozu drop a sweat bead or two upon realizing he's within his power is someone to fear. The way he carries himself also speaks of his confidence and ability, he basicly pi cks with Sengokou and other high ranked marines just for giggles. This chaotic presence is one that could not go unoticed on a battlefield as we've seen.

3. Do I have to talk about Jimbei? We already know that he's pretty much equals with Ace. Even Luffy admires his strength and character, and considers him powerful even out of water.

4. Remeber when Kuma first showed his real power? Everyone was thinking "OOOOOO ZOAN" but then he pulls out what could be the most powerful paramecia of all (magellan). I know that its the man that makes the DF, but seriously. A cyborgs body, kizaru's lazer, the ability to repel anything at "light speed"( i'm a lil iffy on that one, zoro dogded it barely), and instant teleportation, oh and he can send anyone away with a touch.

5. Moria, as entertaining as his ark was, gets not enough love in my book. We finally get to see him get down, and he has to fight Jimbei. I'm kinda rootin' for the poor sap. He's become the new Crocodile

6. Boa Hancock: pirate empress of an amazon nation, esteemed member of the 7 Gods of the Sea/Pirate, Cannon Sue. She's got enough renown to even have Sengoku respect her, and she's probably still pulling windmills on my boy Smoker too. I hate the woman, but you can't deny her either.

7. Blackbeards a tough one to say, I kinda get the feeling that we won't ever see his real/finished strength/growth until Oda deems it time. Anytime we've seen him fight, he kinda mirrors Luffys growth. Small skilled crew, check. Luffy pwns Bellamy-Teach pwns Sarquis, check. Luffy barely eeks out a win against Rob Lucci, the WG's personal badass (non-marine examp)- Teach barely eeks out win against Whitebeard's personal badass (one of em anyway). Niether one can beat Magellan ATM, but thats kinda going back to the begining of this.

My point is, don't sleep on the shichibukai. Unless one of the Yonkou has some kinda Mizu Mizu no mi or something broken like that.

thanks for reading, lemme know if i'm doing something wrong yah?

 

[BlackHair]

WB - Legend

The infobox presented a title, not a fact. Unfortunately, we'll have no conclusion to this debate until this arc's conclusion. Until then, we'll just agree to disagree.

The arc is over now and we have our long awaited answer. Despite having all those disadvantage, WB still made BB his bitch. In a fair 1vs1 BB would lose in less than 10 sec. Finally we can end one painful discussion. Im as hell as glad to have been on WB's side since his introduction. WB lived, died and will be remembered as a Legend!

 

[Primecut]

Looks like Whitebeard can solo all the Shichibukai in 1v1 gauntlet style....with ease too. If it is a brawl and Whitebeard brought his crew (Marco, Jozu, Vista, etc.) then Shichibukai get murdered all at the same time.

 

[kkck]

I am not that sure about that. I am sure WB in his youth was stronger than all the shichibukai but old WB seemed to be just above them and his commanders seemed to be overall on the same level. How strong mihawk really is is still kind of a mystery though, we never really saw him go all out. Not only that but seeing how he casually sliced miles and hundreds of tons of ice as a mere side effect of an attack against someone who wasn't even fodder to him makes me think we have barely seen anything at all.

 

[bittman]

Let's also not forget that Doflamingo is an ENORMOUS wildcard.

Not only was he able to stop Diamond Joz (the same guy that made Aokoji and Croc bleed and stop Mihawk's slash) in an instant to then sit on top of him like he had made him his bitch, but the 13th Captain Atmos saw Doflamingo and then feared for the safety of everyone around him. A division commander of the WB pirates should not become a bitch so easily, yet Doflamingo made two of them his personal puppets.

And yeah: Mihawk is still a wildcard also. I also believe he never looked like he gave half an effort throughout this entire war.

Still hoping Kuma can turn around. As said above, since he got PX-0'd and Galaxy Wink'd, he's been a little disappointing. Especially when before every little thing was either reflected or teleported. Now he just lasers a lot =(

Jimbei, Hancock and Croc I'd all rate at the level of the div commanders of WB.

Blackbeard...well he's still a wildcard. Sure WB > BB, but I still couldn't give you a level Blackbeard fits into. As WB mentioned, his defences are terrible, so he looks like he struggles with everyone.