Hangout Shingeki no Kyojin Hangout Thread

[DassJennir]

Re: Shingeki no Kyojin by ISAYAMA Hajime

Spoiler

Rivaile is a champ. Brilliant how he went for her eyes first, then immobilized her. His grief upon seeing his fallen squad was brilliantly subtle, the grief on his face was palatable, even as he passed them by. One of my favorite scenes was the grim look he gave to Petra's father on returning.

Spoiler

Yeah...he wasn't even able to tell him what happened to Petra

Spoiler

I am definitely intrigued by the female titan crying, even more so because I have no clue why she would be reduced to tears in defeat. I don't think she was crying for Eren's sake. Maybe she, just like Irvin, could face consequences for her failure. Whatever happens I can not wait to see what happens next month.

Spoiler

It's all her behavior so far that make me think she knows Eren and somehow cares for him.

By the way, i wonder how Irvin will manage to escape from all accusations. Eren too is in deep sh*t. The failure will not improve his chances on the trial.

 

[Kaiten]

Re: Shingeki no Kyojin by ISAYAMA Hajime

Spoiler

Yeah...he wasn't even able to tell him what happened to Petra

That was heartbreaking. Nowhere in the chapter was Rivaile's pain more palpable. That scene was a perfect illustration of why the consequences for failure will be so dire. This was not just a military failure, or a political failure. There was a human toll, sons and daughters failed to return. While victory would not have taken the pain away at least the scouts would have died for a good cause. Dying for a lost cause is a bitter pill to swallow, very difficult to overcome politically.

Spoiler

It's all her behavior so far that make me think she knows Eren and somehow cares for him.

While possible, I would wonder why she is attempting to kidnap Eren at all if she cares for him so. Her actions do not suggest friendship, at least to me. I am very, very curious why defeat reduced her to tears. Whatever the reason it was definitely curious behavior for a villain.

Spoiler

By the way, i wonder how Irvin will manage to escape from all accusations. Eren too is in deep sh*t. The failure will not improve his chances on the trial.

I have a feeling Irvin will not escape, at least not in the short term. I think he will retain his rank but moved to a position that keeps him away from the front line and out of decision making roles.

I am really curious about what will happen to Eren. Last time he was captured he barely escaped, who knows what will happen this time.

 

[Silverblade]

Re: Shingeki no Kyojin by ISAYAMA Hajime

Wow. What an end to this arc. Buth action and drama wise Isayama handled this perfectly - and quite cruelly.

Although I really would want to see how the plot can progress further. The subtly visible goals of the manga are still far from sight - and if one is clearly behind the outer wall inside Eren's old house, the other is yet almost non-defined and hidden behind the inner wall.

I hardly see Eren getting back into action, so to say, legally, as he did back at the court. So this time the circumstances will have to take a sudden turn - either the royalty or any other high echelon officials act - or another invasion happens.

Probably, something entirely else happens.

 

[Kaiten]

Re: Shingeki no Kyojin by ISAYAMA Hajime

I'm curious how he will escape the clutches of the court too, and have to agree that it will not be as neat and orderly as last time. The more I wrack my brain the less I can think of though. My only thought is that the antagonists, including the female titan, seem to be based within the walls. While I do not expect another invasion of titans it is possible that whomever ordered the female titan to bring Eren back alive could conspire to free Eren from the court.

 

[igotthegoods]

Re: Shingeki no Kyojin by ISAYAMA Hajime

While this was a great chapter, I have to admit that I'm a bit disappointed that Eren wasn't taken back to the enemy's base (or wherever the female titan intended to take him). I want to know more about them! The tease obviously built more interest in me, so if that's what Isayama was going for, it worked.

The tears of the female titan upon her defeat were really curious and quite interesting. I see that there's been some speculation that the tears were because she cared for Eren in some way. I'm not sure if this is the case or not, but I can see it being plausible if she knows or is somehow related to Eren's father, whose connection to all of this is unclear.

 

[Hamy]

Re: Shingeki no Kyojin by ISAYAMA Hajime

While this was a great chapter, I have to admit that I'm a bit disappointed that Eren wasn't taken back to the enemy's base (or wherever the female titan intended to take him). I want to know more about them! The tease obviously built more interest in me, so if that's what Isayama was going for, it worked.

The tears of the female titan upon her defeat were really curious and quite interesting. I see that there's been some speculation that the tears were because she cared for Eren in some way. I'm not sure if this is the case or not, but I can see it being plausible if she knows or is somehow related to Eren's father, whose connection to all of this is unclear.

Or it could just be frustration given how its not the first time the author had already paralleled the situation between the female titan and the scouting legion - earlier it was how panels shifted and eventually juxtaposed between the resolve of Irivin and the female titan. In this situation I see the same thing given how the scenes afterwards progressed, simply put her tears were apt to the build up of the same frustration from failure that they received on their home coming.

 

[igotthegoods]

Re: Shingeki no Kyojin by ISAYAMA Hajime

Oh, absolutely. I was simply trying to think of a way that the tears could be related to her caring for Eren as a person, maybe foreshadowing something to come later on. Frustration due to a failed mission is very likely. And, as you mentioned, using her emotions to mirror the frustrations of the scouting legion is smart and provides a good transition to set the mood for their return home.

 

[k-dom]

Re: Shingeki no Kyojin by ISAYAMA Hajime

While this was a great chapter, I have to admit that I'm a bit disappointed that Eren wasn't taken back to the enemy's base (or wherever the female titan intended to take him). I want to know more about them! The tease obviously built more interest in me, so if that's what Isayama was going for, it worked.

The tears of the female titan upon her defeat were really curious and quite interesting. I see that there's been some speculation that the tears were because she cared for Eren in some way. I'm not sure if this is the case or not, but I can see it being plausible if she knows or is somehow related to Eren's father, whose connection to all of this is unclear.

Yes it gives a feeling that nobody wins in the end. Neither Titans nor humans, which makes all the deaths even more useless and painful.

I really feel the tears as tears of sadness when I read the chapter. I can't really explain why, maybe her attitude. She looks more sad than angry or frustrated.

 

[Hamy]

Re: Shingeki no Kyojin by ISAYAMA Hajime

Yes it gives a feeling that nobody wins in the end. Neither Titans nor humans, which makes all the deaths even more useless and painful.

I really feel the tears as tears of sadness when I read the chapter. I can't really explain why, maybe her attitude. She looks more sad than angry or frustrated.

I honestly think they are one and the same thing definitely sadness but I find it frustration mixed into it as it made all the lives lost here precisely useless for both sides it basically makes both sides question themselves and their competencies, which is aggravated by the ones who question and doubt them despite the clear effort put in by their comrades who even lost their lives. In the end the main thing that lingers is a thought of "If only..." but not in a motivational way as there is more regret, and Rivalle felt this especially when Mikasa reprimanded him. Both sides felt useless, and the deaths wasted, definitely sadness but I find this closer to frustration of a defeat sort of sadness as both sides clearly tried their best but ended up failing.

Reason why I'm not really thinking too much regarding the female titan's tears as sadness FOR Eren is that its really too far left field that its much closer to a guess than say speculating the emotions. There just isn't much hint at all regarding their connection at this point that it would be due to some emotional bond as compared to a parallelism between the two situations of both sides losing - and with that similarity we can assume much easier the same emotion for both sides as compared to guessing their relations.

 

[Jammin]

Re: Shingeki no Kyojin by ISAYAMA Hajime

I just picked this up and I'm not really sure what everybody thinks is so great about it. Could somebody try and explain what I'm missing?

 

[Hiro Hayase]

Re: Shingeki no Kyojin by ISAYAMA Hajime

I just picked this up and I'm not really sure what everybody thinks is so great about it. Could somebody try and explain what I'm missing?

Well... how far have you read? Shingeki no Kyojin is the type of manga that gets interesting as you read more.


What I like about this manga: I'll try to avoid spoilers.

-Its refreshing
-It has dark themes (themes other mangaka's never dare to explore in their works)
-The art style, it fits a dark manga like this
-Very nice character development and growth
-Character interactions are very realistic and their reactions to problems, psychologically speaking.
-Interesting plot, has a nice pace
-Strong female protagonist, side characters are strong too in their own ways
-Its easy to sympathize with the male protagonist
-Thought and emotion provoking images

About the chapter:

Spoiler

Wow... in the end nobody's a winner. The tears of the titan really creates the effect of finality and failure. The losses were great this time, Scouting Legion seems doomed.... unless they are attacked by another titan during this short break. The higher-ups might try to send Eren on suicide mission just to get rid of him afterwards. Although iI'm 99.9% certain that Eren will be kept tabs on 24/7.

 

[Jammin]

Re: Shingeki no Kyojin by ISAYAMA Hajime

I've read to chapter 30, which I believe is the latest.

To be honest my initial impression was this...

Great world-building
Great background art
Very interesting plot
Lots of battle melodrama
Lots of shock value gore
Over-dramatized characters

Senien loves to do this thing where you throw a bunch of characters completely unprepared for battle at a violent and gory battle and have them look utterly terrified; or pulling a "Gundam" as I call it. And this just seems like a classic example of that to me. Which may just be a matter of how early it is in the series but still. Like 3 characters act like soldiers and the rest seem like more of a danger to their squad-mates than Giants. It just seems like they have been at this long enough that they should have adapted more than this.

It reminded me a little of Gantz in the early days minus all the crazy people and dumb sexual stuff.

-Its refreshing
-It has dark themes (themes other mangaka's never dare to explore in their works)
-The art style, it fits a dark manga like this
-Very nice character development and growth
-Character interactions are very realistic and their reactions to problems, psychologically speaking.
-Interesting plot, has a nice pace
-Strong female protagonist, side characters are strong too in their own ways
-Its easy to sympathize with the male protagonist
-Thought and emotion provoking images

Ah, thank you. I do have some questions though.

"-Its refreshing"
What part of it is refreshing? That's what I don't understand.

"-It has dark themes (themes other mangaka's never dare to explore in their works)"
Which themes? Cause this all seems like pretty familiar Senien territory to me.

"-Very nice character development and growth"
I can see this for Eren, he does have a very interesting path of growth. But outside of him I haven't seen a lot of growth. As far as I can tell most of the other people are the same as they were when they were introduced so where is the growth?

"-Thought and emotion provoking images"
What thoughts and emotions are they supposed to be provoking? Besides pity and disgust of course.

 

[k-dom]

Re: Shingeki no Kyojin by ISAYAMA Hajime

Actually Shingeki is a shonen :-)

I think the author has succesfully build an intriguing world with mysteries that we want to discover and characters we want to follow. When I started Gantz, I dropped it quite rapidly. Every fight was a massacre and the author revealed nothing about the purpose of these fights. I was bored rapidly.
Nothing like that so far with Shingeki and if you add a the very good art, that makes a manga I read always with great expectation.

 

[Jammin]

Re: Shingeki no Kyojin by ISAYAMA Hajime

Actually Shingeki is a shonen :-)

You are 100% correct, but my point kinda remains the same. Shingeki seems to me like it's drawing heavily on the same themes.

I think the author has succesfully build an intriguing world with mysteries that we want to discover and characters we want to follow. When I started Gantz, I dropped it quite rapidly. Every fight was a massacre and the author revealed nothing about the purpose of these fights. I was bored rapidly.
Nothing like that so far with Shingeki and if you add a the very good art, that makes a manga I read always with great expectation.

Oh I agree on Gantz, and I think Shingeki is on pace to be better, simpley because basic plot seems better, but that's not a huge proclamation for me.

Though with Gantz, it really was a mishmash of characters that are being tossed into battle woefully unprepared and how they respond was kinda the point of the series. They had no training. No choice. No real instructions. And no escape. Most fell apart and a few found a way to cope. But it was that process that was Gantz's big selling point.

So far with Shingeki it seems like we've seen a lot of the people falling apart and very little of the people finding a way to cope. The only real warriors among them are Mikasa and Rivaille but both of them were like that from the outset of their characters, so we didn't get the joy of seeing that growth. It just seem to me like, after all this time, a lot more of these characters should have started to make some progress toward becoming more than doe-eyed monster hors d'oeuvres.

 

[Hamy]

Re: Shingeki no Kyojin by ISAYAMA Hajime

My qualm with asking what is so good about Shingeki is up to this point I'd probably also list down elements it has - which of course when listed down won't appear anything TOO special especially if you've read a lot of manga. However, the problem here is that the quality of Shingeki couldn't be anymore lucid namely that it is quite a well handled mature work - which is what elevates all those elements it has to a great level as that maturity makes it appear so fresh that it doesn't feel quite like any manga creating the effect as if it were something we've never seen before.

By maturity I don't just mean the brutality or the topics involved but overall a lot of things but key being that it develops all those elements wonderfully without any recourse to any crutches - i.e. dumbing things down, fanservice, or even respite as the latest chapter would show. You know fully for instance when the plot doesn't reveal itself yet that it's not so much a teasing as it is clearly something far too young at the moment for you to know - you can see the clear divide that the author puts in his work that really shows he knows where he is going. Or most obvious of all maturity is emotions - and this manga is full of it - dominated mostly by fear and uncertainty which is not the easiest things to handle mind you as this isn't a horror manga but in essence still a sort of adventure but it pulls off such emotions well as it doesn't just focus on the trials of Eren or the Scouting legion but the entire microcosm that composes the entire town that lives inside the wall and the titans.

I can't reiterate enough how fully formed the world of Shingeki feels its really something quite obvious for anyone who reads it - whether you liked it or not - as the author does spend time developing that microcosm and with the realism which is another mark of this manga the town they live in couldn't feel any more palpable or easily imagined as existing. I could go on but as I said Shingeki is perfectly lucid regarding its quality that is so tied together with all the facets of the manga that I really I can only suggest you read the series and form your own opinion as the clarity of its quality continues to make itself apparent with each chapter. I wouldn't say so much that it is love hate as it implies a glaring flaw but more of I can't really particularly understand how anyone could particularly dislike a the series or a disavow an entire chapter other than it may frustrate your expectations if you continue to insist upon it as this manga quite strongly follows its own internal logic through its very well developed world that when expectations are fulfilled or unfulfilled they completely follow only what precisely the world dictates or marches (no pun intended) to its own drum, again because it is a maturely handled work that does not particularly appear to give in as it stands by what it makes us believe through its writing and art. Really though leaving yourself and expectations that are extrinsic to a work is pretty much a given though in appreciating anything, hence I don't particularly want to insist upon any particular reading of the manga or I dare say any hype, as if you do continue to bog yourself down with such mentality you will see what you want but not the work itself.

 

[Hiro Hayase]

Re: Shingeki no Kyojin by ISAYAMA Hajime

I've read to chapter 30, which I believe is the latest.

"-Its refreshing"
What part of it is refreshing? That's what I don't understand.

"-It has dark themes (themes other mangaka's never dare to explore in their works)"
Which themes? Cause this all seems like pretty familiar Senien territory to me.

"-Very nice character development and growth"
I can see this for Eren, he does have a very interesting path of growth. But outside of him I haven't seen a lot of growth. As far as I can tell most of the other people are the same as they were when they were introduced so where is the growth?

"-Thought and emotion provoking images"
What thoughts and emotions are they supposed to be provoking? Besides pity and disgust of course.

Chapter 30 is the latest chapter as far as I know.

1. Not many shounen works have a female protagonist stronger than the male protagonist in combat. That's one.

2. In Shounen works, very very rarely does an author show the negative aspects about "nakama power" or believing in your teammates. Hamy also listed some other ones in his 2nd paragraph. The way the author executed that theme was amazing to me, at least.

3. I actually meant that for Eren, Mikasa, Armin and some of their teammates from the training camp. The growth is very subtle in this manga, you have look at all the details, no matter how miniscule it may seem.

4. I'm talking about images like these: http://www.mangareader.net/shingeki-no-kyojin/29/34 that sends chills down your spine. Pity and disgust are not the only emotions an image can show. A picture is worth a thousand words.


P.S. Just by reading a chapter from Shingeki no Kyojin I can tell that the author placed quite a fair amount of thought in his manga. Something else about this manga draws me to it, but I can't put that feeling into words. It kinda has that unique charm to it I guess.

 

[Kaiten]

Re: Shingeki no Kyojin by ISAYAMA Hajime

While this was a great chapter, I have to admit that I'm a bit disappointed that Eren wasn't taken back to the enemy's base (or wherever the female titan intended to take him). I want to know more about them! The tease obviously built more interest in me, so if that's what Isayama was going for, it worked.

Don't forget that Father did not make his first, sustained appearance in FMA until chapter 31, at the end of the Dubluth arc. The world of FMA was revealed a little more quickly than Shingeki but not much.

The tears of the female titan upon her defeat were really curious and quite interesting. I see that there's been some speculation that the tears were because she cared for Eren in some way. I'm not sure if this is the case or not, but I can see it being plausible if she knows or is somehow related to Eren's father, whose connection to all of this is unclear.

Or it could just be frustration given how its not the first time the author had already paralleled the situation between the female titan and the scouting legion - earlier it was how panels shifted and eventually juxtaposed between the resolve of Irivin and the female titan. In this situation I see the same thing given how the scenes afterwards progressed, simply put her tears were apt to the build up of the same frustration from failure that they received on their home coming.

I agree. She had been juxtaposed with Irvin the entire arc. Her tears were most likely of frustration, failure, and fear. Like Irvin, she will probably return to face the wrath of her superiors. One would think that the punishment she receives will be more severe than his.

Yes it gives a feeling that nobody wins in the end. Neither Titans nor humans, which makes all the deaths even more useless and painful.

I really feel the tears as tears of sadness when I read the chapter. I can't really explain why, maybe her attitude. She looks more sad than angry or frustrated.

That is what I liked so much about this arc. For all of the strategies of war both sides left empty handed. Not only was the battle a draw but it could be said that the Scouting Legion lost more. The failure of the female titan will not stop the enemies plans, I am sure. But Irvin's failure means that the Scouting Legion will be on a short leash, with no hope of recovering Wall Maria or reaching Eren's house. This is so much closer to real war: battles of consequences and magical teenagers do not always save the day.

You are 100% correct, but my point kinda remains the same. Shingeki seems to me like it's drawing heavily on the same themes.

Oh I agree on Gantz, and I think Shingeki is on pace to be better, simpley because basic plot seems better, but that's not a huge proclamation for me.

Though with Gantz, it really was a mishmash of characters that are being tossed into battle woefully unprepared and how they respond was kinda the point of the series. They had no training. No choice. No real instructions. And no escape. Most fell apart and a few found a way to cope. But it was that process that was Gantz's big selling point.

So far with Shingeki it seems like we've seen a lot of the people falling apart and very little of the people finding a way to cope. The only real warriors among them are Mikasa and Rivaille but both of them were like that from the outset of their characters, so we didn't get the joy of seeing that growth. It just seem to me like, after all this time, a lot more of these characters should have started to make some progress toward becoming more than doe-eyed monster hors d'oeuvres.

I think it is a mistake to look at character growth as requisite for a good manga, rather than character development. The former is often flawed writing. Self improvement is rarely the linear, perpetually positive process seen in most action manga. Some people do not grow at all, they simply stagnate. Character development is better, the depiction of a characters psychology. Why they do what they do and act how they act. Shingeki has been spectacular at exploring what motivates the major characters, rather than the forced self improvement to often seen in to many mangas.

Never forget that most people do not cope well with adversity. Very few people rise to the occasion. Hiding behind walls is easier, even if safety is merely an illusion. And those who do rise up don't always succeed immediately. Irvin, Eren, Rivaile, and Mikasa are brave souls not content to live walled in from danger. Yet they failed. They returned from this arc beaten, broken, and bloody. Now they must face the consequences. Not only must they cope with the titans, they now have to overcome their own failures, and the resulting political consequences. Even more adversity faces them then before. It makes more sense that most of the characters can not cope with that, can not rise to the situation. That is true of real crisis too.

 

[Jammin]

Re: Shingeki no Kyojin by ISAYAMA Hajime

I think I understand now.

When I ask the question what is so great about it. What I'm really asking is what appeals to you about this series, and what I look for in peoples answer's is stuff that I either didn't notice or doesn't carry the same value to me. The reason for this is because it's the only way I know of to learn whether my judgment of a series is fair. And from what I've read I don't think my judgement was fair.

It's true that the world of Shingeki all fits together very nicely . It is a deep and well built world and the artwork puts a lot of effort into showing that all too you. From the way the castle is built to the equipment of the soldier and everything in between, Shingeki well though out and painstaking put together. It also refuses to use all the conventional things that other mangaka's use to sell there series, like fan-service and such which helps to maintain that world immersion. I think all of that is true, and that is special.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The reason, I suspect, why it never seemed very special to me is because I am a character oriented reader. That's my bias in all things. So I tend to look less at how the world fits together and more how the characters fit together. And to be honest, outside of 4-5 characters, I don't think it's been very good in that respect; due mostly to the large number of "terrified young soldier" archetype that's been introduced.

So that's why I think those aspects didn't stand out as much to me but maybe overtime that aspect will change a little and I'll be able to enjoy it as you guys do.

---------- Post added at 11:51 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:15 PM ----------

I think it is a mistake to look at character growth as requisite for a good manga, rather than character development. The former is often flawed writing. Self improvement is rarely the linear, perpetually positive process seen in most action manga. Some people do not grow at all, they simply stagnate. Character development is better, the depiction of a characters psychology. Why they do what they do and act how they act. Shingeki has been spectacular at exploring what motivates the major characters, rather than the forced self improvement to often seen in to many mangas.

Never forget that most people do not cope well with adversity. Very few people rise to the occasion. Hiding behind walls is easier, even if safety is merely an illusion. And those who do rise up don't always succeed immediately. Irvin, Eren, Rivaile, and Mikasa are brave souls not content to live walled in from danger. Yet they failed. They returned from this arc beaten, broken, and bloody. Now they must face the consequences. Not only must they cope with the titans, they now have to overcome their own failures, and the resulting political consequences. Even more adversity faces them then before. It makes more sense that most of the characters can not cope with that, can not rise to the situation. That is true of real crisis too.

"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power."- Abraham Lincoln

(It's my second favorite quote)

People adapt to circumstance it's part of our nature. Sometimes that adaptation is for the better sometimes it's for the worse but they always change and a good character does that too. Adversity just makes that need to adapt even more apparent. When a character does not adapt, both mentally and emotionally, I don't think their acting all that human.

Never the less, I think you are correct character growth is not a prerequisite for a manga to be good but it is a prerequisite in manga's of this type for me to enjoy it properly and that's really what this comes down to for me. It just doesn't suit my tastes right now.

 

[Kaiten]

Re: Shingeki no Kyojin by ISAYAMA Hajime

"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power."- Abraham Lincoln

(It's my second favorite quote)

People adapt to circumstance it's part of our nature. Sometimes that adaptation is for the better sometimes it's for the worse but they always change and a good character does that too. Adversity just makes that need to adapt even more apparent. When a character does not adapt, both mentally and emotionally, I don't think their acting all that human.

There are several layers of metaphor Iyasama is trying to make about how individuals, and societies, react to crisis and adversity. tonyyao82‎ once linked to an article that compared the titans to national crisis: overwhelmingly large, seemingly illogical, often of unknown origin, and extremely deadly. In chapter one Eren openly declared his disgust for the walls, his desire to join the scouts, defeat the titans, and free humanity from confinement. Then there are the walls themselves. To most characters they represent safety, despite being breached twice now.

If the titans represent crisis and danger at a societal level, the hero's of Shinegki represent those with the courage to confront the crisis head on and seek the best possible solution. The wall represents those who are willing to sacrifice what they believe in for the illusion of safety. If the titans represent World War II then the walls are appeasement. Eren, Mikasa, Rivaile, Irvin, and the Scouting Legion would be Churchill, Roosevelt, and the allies. Isayama is trying to draw a line between courage and cowardice at a societal level. Between coping with adversity in a positive sense and coping in a negative way. But courage comes at a price. The bravest characters may end up dead while those behind the walls lived. That is sacrifice, part of the cost of fighting for what you believe in. Death is not due to a lack of coping, death is a fact of life during wartime.

 

[Hamy]

Re: Shingeki no Kyojin by ISAYAMA Hajime

Another thing about this manga is that I don't believe it is THAT character driven, undoubtedly to an extent, but considering how much recourse we keep going to "microcosm", "shared", "society" a tragedy in the manga does have a personal aspect to it but more to that its a collective. Which targets at the core of the manga being that of a battle of humanity, and indeed the author has hit the nail on this wonderfully precisely because the loss of a friend or decimation of a squad impacts the entire humanity in the bigger picture of things. Which is why victories and losses mean so much to this manga and really affect you as a reader because its not as personalized hence it is a win and loss for everybody in a far more objective sense, when a character cries you accept it because of that distance that prevents you from projecting yourself to the work or "owning" the character so that your reaction might have been "snap out of it!".

Perhaps this generalization would turn off people, after all its really only now after what 30 chapters or so that characters begin to mark an impact as individuals I only begin to remember names aside from the trio of friends, but if you think about it how often do you come across the handling of such in any manga - even more so in the tightly handled Shounen magazines. So I honestly can't relate to an idea of being turned off by this as the work challenges me, and I'm not one to turn away from a challenge especially when it has been done well.