Hangout Shingeki no Kyojin Hangout Thread

ImmortalZodd

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Ah, so you are developing the game? Good job. I did notice there was something different the second time I play, the update seems to be a decent improvement (I also got to 4 kills). A deviant? That would definitely be hard considering how they work in the manga but I will definitely look forward to it.

What I am particularly having trouble with is those small titans at this point. Its extremely difficult to get to those damn napes and avoid the attacks. I will get it eventually though...
No no no, I just found a link to it on reddit, and the youtube video with the new update mentioned deviants for next version.
And yeah, smaller ones were harder to deal with, but since the new special attack, they are much easier to handle. The bigger giants are also much easier now due to the fact that you can stay attached on your cable for as long as you want with Q and E.
 

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What special attack? I noticed they could attack in a few more ways but I did not notice a special attack of any sort..
 

Bandreus

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What special attack? I noticed they could attack in a few more ways but I did not notice a special attack of any sort..
I think he might be talking about the downward slash (or w/e it's called) you can perform by pressing s+LMB

EDIT: Sorry if this has been posted elsewhere, but it might be wise to have this guy craft a bunch of those, just in case Titans decide to attack us sometime in the future :derp

 
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kkck

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Overall I have been wondering if the overall personality we have seen from berholt is actually his real one. As far as reyner goes I think we have seen his personality as a whole pretty well. Even if he is an asshole he does seem to be honest at heart which is why his actions made him go insane and loose sight of reality. The issue is that berholt is not going through that.... Reyner has risked his life for others and he has gotten involved with everyone as a whole but yet berholt has remained on the margin of the scene. I believe that the reason for that is that he simply does not involve with others more than he should. But if he has maintained his sanity and overall he has not gotten involved himself with others it would make sense we have not actually seen what he really is like. And even now he seems more concerned about reyner being insane than anything else... Perhaps once he actually gets comfortable with someone he will be significantly different from what we have seen so far.
 

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Overall I have been wondering if the overall personality we have seen from berholt is actually his real one. As far as reyner goes I think we have seen his personality as a whole pretty well. Even if he is an asshole he does seem to be honest at heart which is why his actions made him go insane and loose sight of reality. The issue is that berholt is not going through that.... Reyner has risked his life for others and he has gotten involved with everyone as a whole but yet berholt has remained on the margin of the scene. I believe that the reason for that is that he simply does not involve with others more than he should. But if he has maintained his sanity and overall he has not gotten involved himself with others it would make sense we have not actually seen what he really is like. And even now he seems more concerned about reyner being insane than anything else... Perhaps once he actually gets comfortable with someone he will be significantly different from what we have seen so far.
I think he's still not gonna be the courageous type, but he's actually really sane and clear minded that's what I feel. He's kinda like a check on Reiner, who has pretty much the opposite character type as far as we've seen. And he probably knows that too, but whether he has a big enough voice to get through to Reiner is another issue.

The moment he admits pity for Eren, I come to firmly believe he's a true neutral type, if you're familiar with alignments. That is someone who doesn't concern himself with others who aren't important to him, someone who only watches by the sidelines, involving himself only to help his own or his friend's situation. To be honest, I doubt he even agrees to come inside the walls deep down, but only tagging along because Reiner is here. Also, it's not like being honest can be considered a good quality of him. Let's consider it this way, he is honest with Eren rather than using Reiner's argument later on. That's probably because Eren isn't his concern at all, that's why he can give such an indifferent answer and pours the slightest sympathy. To him, this isn't his honesty, rather this is the brutal reality of this world he believes in.

If he really is what I think he is, then I can very much personally relate to him, but I'm really not a big fan of this type of character lol.
 

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I don't think bernholt's comment on feeling pity is all that significant to be honest. Overall, why should it? Bernholt so far seems perfectly aware of what he was doing and unlike reyner his sanity is not slipping past him. What else was he supposed to say? bernholt was a warrior with a mission when he attacked the walls, that is it. He went to do his mission knowing full well that it would cost the lives of everyone there. So far R&B have not been portrayed as random dr evil wannabes who want to destroy the world for no reason, they are warriors and whatever the cost they believe there is a reason for what they are doing which is why they are able to murder all those people. So.... bernholt feeling pity for eren is the only thing he could have felt. Its like a boss firing someone so to speak. The boss did not enjoy it, he won't take pride on it either but he sure as hell won't regret it because it had to be done. Bernholt almost certainly feels genuily sorry for eren but in the end he did what he had to do.

As far as him being neutral... I don't think that makes much sense with what we know. Since he does retain his sanity he is perfectly aware of the fact that he is an enemy of mankind. He is aware that he is responsible for the deaths of 20% of the human population at large, he is aware that EVERYONE hates him and he is aware that each and every one of his peers is his mortal enemy. Bernholt at large simply did not get emotionally involved with the enemy. When it came to dangerous situations it was reyner who saved everyone but the current implication is that bernholt himself would have left them die and not bat an eyelash.
 

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I don't think bernholt's comment on feeling pity is all that significant to be honest. Overall, why should it? Bernholt so far seems perfectly aware of what he was doing and unlike reyner his sanity is not slipping past him. What else was he supposed to say? bernholt was a warrior with a mission when he attacked the walls, that is it. He went to do his mission knowing full well that it would cost the lives of everyone there. So far R&B have not been portrayed as random dr evil wannabes who want to destroy the world for no reason, they are warriors and whatever the cost they believe there is a reason for what they are doing which is why they are able to murder all those people. So.... bernholt feeling pity for eren is the only thing he could have felt. Its like a boss firing someone so to speak. The boss did not enjoy it, he won't take pride on it either but he sure as hell won't regret it because it had to be done. Bernholt almost certainly feels genuily sorry for eren but in the end he did what he had to do.

As far as him being neutral... I don't think that makes much sense with what we know. Since he does retain his sanity he is perfectly aware of the fact that he is an enemy of mankind. He is aware that he is responsible for the deaths of 20% of the human population at large, he is aware that EVERYONE hates him and he is aware that each and every one of his peers is his mortal enemy. Bernholt at large simply did not get emotionally involved with the enemy. When it came to dangerous situations it was reyner who saved everyone but the current implication is that bernholt himself would have left them die and not bat an eyelash.
I guess I have no comment to the first part of your comment, since at the moment we're really lacking more Bertholt interactions as you've said.

As for the second part, sorry I was unclear, true neutral does not specifically mean a character has a neutral political stance. It's a personal, moral stance, and it only means he only concerns about things he cares about. Not getting "emotionally involved with the enemy" and leaving "them die" can be a part of it. In fact, I'd like to think the reason he could be so sane and retain his grounds (unlike Reiner) is all thanks to his 'neutrality.' The only reason I bring this neutrality talk in is because I suspect (pretty much evidence-less lol but hey) he's only here because of Reiner.
 

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Well, I think R&B are an interesting couple indeed (they are totally into each other btw). Those two has been through some pretty nasty sheit.

They probably were raised as fundamentalists (remember their flashbacks, espcialy the one about Annie's father), have witnessed horror themselves (Ymir devouring a friend of theirs and Titans attacking their village). Also, they had to (were forced into?) go on a very dangerous mission among enemy lines and god only knows what else.

I find Reiner to be the most interesting of the two. I really believe he is sincere in all instances. He's a warrior, proud of it, and with a strong sense of duty. He values determination and bravery onto anything else (to the point of stubborness), and immediately respects Eren as soon as he hears his whole story. He believes in such high and noble ideals that he suffers a fierce internal conflict when getting to know the (so viscerally hated) enemy better, causing his split personality. He is really ready to put his life on the line when saving Connie, would do the same for all of his Soldier companions, and would undoubtedly do the same for Berth. Regardless, he knows what he did was bad and unforgivable (even more so because he got to know not every human is as ugly as he once thought), surely feels guilt about it, but will be carry his duty no regardless such for the sake of being a warrior.

I believe Bertholdt has been true to himself too right from the start. It's just he doesn't really seem to believe in what he's doing as much as Reiner is. If I would have to guess, I'd say Bertholdt is pretty content with doing whatever he's told to. After all, he is both a coward and lack any self confidence. By doing someone else's bidding, he doesn't even have to bother believing in what he's told to believe into (and, by doing so, feeling perfectly fine with it). By doing so, he would always be able to just state "it's what they told me to do", in fact he also admits he doesn't really consider himself responsible for whatever he is doing ("I don't have a will of my own"). He doesn't seem to really give a shit about anyone but Reiner. It's not like he doesn't realize how many (innocent?) people he has killed, but he doesn't feel guilty for it in the slightest, and he never reacts in an emotional way even when witnessing the imminent death of his comrades. He's not even able to sympathize much with Eren when hearing about the facts he's been thorugh. When he says "I felt sorry for you" regarding Eren's mother he's probably true, but you can tell from his face he doesn't feel any guilt, just like it wasn't his fault (and in his mind, it really isn't).

So in a sense yes, I think you could say Berth has a somewhat neutral morality. He does realize killing people is bad I suppose, but at the same time he's willing to do so because that means he doesn't have to take responsibility for whatever decision he might take. He rather prefers to have someone else take decisions in his stead.
 

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Why are people calling Bert a "coward?" The only thing I could find referenced as a reason was because he didn't appear to like that Reiner revealed their identities to Eren. But knowing what a hothead Eren can be, who would think it's a good idea to level with him like that? The only thing we can gather for certain was that Bert didn't agree with what Reiner was doing and it made him uneasy. Bert must have had different methods/plans in mind from the all-or-nothing bit of foolishness Reiner pulled (for example, how about taking Eren by total surprise, not giving him a choice in coming with them, not giving him any explanation until later), then of course he would have been against what Reiner was doing. Someone said they thought Bert hadn't shown what kind of person he was yet; I think that's closer to the truth. If I were to guess, I'd agree he's probably not getting emotionally involved with others but I also think he's probably just more of an introvert, while Reiner is more extroverted. Introverts tend to get misread as "anti-social" or "shifty." (Eren called Bert "shifty" in the latest chapter's Edited Manga)

I don't think Bert was faking the reactions he shows here in chapter 16:

By the way there was talk about whether one of the two of them lies. Bert was at least twisting the truth, hiding things, or lying outright when he told Eren and Armin about his and Reiner's "past." (The Edited Manga says "southeast of Wall Maria" but I wonder if he really said "southeast of" or if he meant "in the southeast of" which would make more sense):
Notice Reiner doesn't appear to have a problem with what he's saying yet.

Then after he tells his "story" (facial expression neutral) we get this interesting reaction from Reiner and Bert does even more talking:
I don't think he's so easy to classify as being the "opposite" of Reiner. I think he's just the quiet type most of the time but as you can see here (whether what he said is true or not) he can get talky. We have yet to learn more about him yet.
 
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ImmortalZodd

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Overall I have been wondering if the overall personality we have seen from berholt is actually his real one. As far as reyner goes I think we have seen his personality as a whole pretty well. Even if he is an asshole he does seem to be honest at heart which is why his actions made him go insane and loose sight of reality. The issue is that berholt is not going through that.... Reyner has risked his life for others and he has gotten involved with everyone as a whole but yet berholt has remained on the margin of the scene. I believe that the reason for that is that he simply does not involve with others more than he should. But if he has maintained his sanity and overall he has not gotten involved himself with others it would make sense we have not actually seen what he really is like. And even now he seems more concerned about reyner being insane than anything else... Perhaps once he actually gets comfortable with someone he will be significantly different from what we have seen so far.
I actually think it's Reiner's personality that we don't know. Since the goody-goody soldier Reiner is just a fabrication, right?
Berth and Annie's behaviour fits the situation, since they infiltrated the enemy. It's only natural that they will keep their distance and a low profile, and generaly feel detached from the rest.
But I do believe that they have a damn good reason for their actions, like it just had to be done. Maybe it was even hinted in this conversation between Annie and Armin.
http://mangafox.me/manga/shingeki_no_kyojin/v05/c021/6.html
http://mangafox.me/manga/shingeki_no_kyojin/v05/c021/5.html
 

kkck

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I actually think it's Reiner's personality that we don't know. Since the goody-goody soldier Reiner is just a fabrication, right?
Berth and Annie's behaviour fits the situation, since they infiltrated the enemy. It's only natural that they will keep their distance and a low profile, and generaly feel detached from the rest.
But I do believe that they have a damn good reason for their actions, like it just had to be done. Maybe it was even hinted in this conversation between Annie and Armin.
http://mangafox.me/manga/shingeki_no_kyojin/v05/c021/6.html
http://mangafox.me/manga/shingeki_no_kyojin/v05/c021/5.html
My idea is that we have seen more of reyner because he is the one that has gotten more involved with everyone unlike bernolt. Wasn't it hinted that it was because of reyner's honest and upfront personality that he is going a tad more insane at a time? Reyner was ultimately in a situation where he would show his true self to others because he truly got to care hence why he has done things like saving his comrades at his own expense. Bernholt not being as upfront or honest as reyner would result in him being more detached from everyone. He is the one that has kept a low profile, he is the one that knows at all times what he is doing. We just had reyner talking about getting a promotion in the army right after he basically revealed to the world he was a mass murderer.
 

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They 100% follow the Terrorist profile.

They were raised to believe in the Cause they're fighting for. Being taught to hate their enemy since very young. Sent on a genocide mission, ended up infiltrating the enemy lines for intel gathering and learnt the enemy isn't that unlikeable after all.

Tough I think the only one who really believed in the Cause is Reiner. The point being that once he gets to know humans better, his inner world (which was built over dogmatic beliefs) starts crumbling, causing him to develop his mental illness.

Bertholdt just wants to go back home and is on this mission because he doesn't have the strength to oppose whatever other people forced him into. Annie will put her own life over anything else, the Cause can go fuck itself if that means paying the greatest price.

I actually think it's Reiner's personality that we don't know. Since the goody-goody soldier Reiner is just a fabrication, right?
Nope, I don't think the Soldier persona is fabricated at all. He always is the same Reiner. Just he unconsciously suppressed his memories of being a warrior, but his behavior is true to his personality all the way (caring for companions, putting his life on the line for them, fighting for what he believes in, fullfilling his duty to the very last, etc.).

In fact his biggest inner conflict is about not knowing what to believe in anymore. When forced to make a decision on the spot, he opted to adhere to the Warrior's agenda out of his sense of duty rather than cause he thought it was the "right" thing to do. His personality never actually changes, aside from acting as a Warrior or a Soldier, depending on whatever his mind tells him to be in each situation.
 

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Bertholdt just wants to go back home and is on this mission because he doesn't have the strength to oppose whatever other people forced him into. Annie will put her own life over anything else, the Cause can go fuck itself if that means paying the greatest price.
As much as you guys were talking about Reiner and Bert...I just have to point out that Annie doesn't seem to be like that...OMG. I don't know why. If she puts her own life over anything else, why did she have to go through great lengths to even follow the mission up to this point(knowing pretty much what they're doing is a suicide mission)? She could've abandon the mission a long time ago. In fact, she shouldn't have been part of their mission at all.

And I'm starting to believe this "Cause" has something to do with Ymir's conversation with Reiner in Chapter 46. You know, something about the world having "no future." Err...But it's a little too early to judge...
 

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Well, when I said "she would put her life over any mission" maybe I was too definitive with my wording. She obviously his on the mission however risky it is. I don't think the mission can be considered a 100% suicide one, but incredibly risky indeed.

What I'm trying to say is, she really wants to save her hide at all the times, and I don't really mean it in a "everybody wants to live on" kind of way. I mean it in a "Okay look, I'm doing this because this need be done, but I will do whatever I can to avoid getting the shorter end of the stick" sense. Sadly enough, she is the one who got herself captured first. Somebody was advancing the idea she got in the Police in order to more easily gather info from inside the wall, but I truly believe she really did that to put herself in a safer spot (although this point is probably still left open for speculation).

If you put all she said during/after training together with her father flashback "I know you will hate me, but I want you to consider all of humanity as your enemy. Also promise you will come back", you really get the sense she really was forcibly grown into becoming what she is. Her strong will to survive, well at least in my mind, is testament to her thinking "this isn't something I would willingly sacrifice my life for and be happy with it". Get my drift? Yeah, it's complicated.

The Cause... we know very close to zero about it, but I could guess it has to be like with most causes which end up sprouting terrorist groups. Maybe their group of origin was being subject of some atrocious repression and/or experimentation, hence they are moved by hate and revenge?

Furthermore, maybe the "Warriors" aren't alleged to regular Titans at all, hence they might be willing to have humanity wiped out completely anyway cause they do thing the world doesn't have a future anyways.

Oh, and I don't think they are related to Ymir after all. Reiner seems to be aware about what Ymir really is (probably because of their first meeting several years before and the fact she can read the old language). But Ymir sincerely seemed to know little about the gorup of Warriors as she really looked honest with all of her questioning. She might know more than it looks, but she doesn't seem THAT knowledgeable either. I'm a bit clueless on this regard.

Only wild speculations there, don't get that too seriously. I hope Isayama tells us a tinsy bit more about their faction soon.
 
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kannazuki

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Just a guess but I think that regular humans are partly responsible for the world "ending" (however that is meant), and the shifters' early, simplistic solution was just to wipe out everyone but the shifting population. Eren is different somehow though. I mean no matter how I look at it, I can't help thinking Reiner wasn't lying when he promised Bert and him wouldn't endanger the human population anymore if Eren came with them. Not surprisingly, there's surely something special about our MC other than the fact he can become a titan. Actually, if time leap/loop theory is true, perhaps they recognized Eren's titan form?

RBA are ALL human, it seems to me. Just brainwashed. Like the "terrorist" description above says, they were surely indoctrinated but now they are examining reality and not sure if they believe as much in what they are doing as they once did. (Reiner is obviously messed up and yes, I do think Bert is somewhat affected by the consequences of his actions even if he's too subdued to show it very much.) If Annie can apologize amidst the Trost casualties; show disappointment at people's choices to join the scouting legion (from her view they're either/both running off to die &/or becoming her sworn enemies... and it's probably hurtful to her to think of it that way); spare Armin's life when she could have killed him; openly call herself a bad person even while being honest enough to call out the corrupt BS at the top of the royal military police-- to anyone who would listen, starting with Eren --then obviously she has a heart too. It's just her "friends" come third, the mission comes second, and her life comes first, no matter how she feels. She's got strong priorities, that one.
 

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openly call herself a bad person even while being honest enough to call out the corrupt BS at the top of the royal military police-- to anyone who would listen, starting with Eren --then obviously she has a heart too. It's just her "friends" come third, the mission comes second, and her life comes first, no matter how she feels. She's got strong priorities, that one.
Which is interesting. Her being that much of a lone-wolf, in a way, seems to be a form of self-defense in order for her to stay alive longer. Obviously, the moment you start caring for friends you'll sooner or later put your life on the line for their sake.

I believe she went through a similar path Reiner did, meeteing "surprising" people and growing a feeling of respect for them. But no matter what she felt, the "I will be on my own" way of doing things was always there keeping herself away from trouble.

She visibly tried resisting the urge to help Armin & co. out when they asked her to, but in the end she was won and that leads to her demise. Ooh the tragedy (I really really felt bad for her).

I have a feeling SnK will soon hit the "Wait, have we been fighting the wrong people for all the time?" moment. Possibly with 3+ factions being behind this whole mystery.
 
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I still kind of disagree that she puts her life first. If anything, I think she puts her life second. First is the mission. I don't know how, but just reading throughout chapter 27 until the last page, makes me actually think that she's one of those people who's capable of changing the world...You know how Armin had a long speech in that chapter, "those who have the ability to change something in this world, all without exception, have guts to abandon things important to them if they have to..." and then, cut through until the last page you see Erwin shocked and realized that he can't believe the enemy is willing to abandon literally EVERYTHING. I don't know...But pretty much, this chapter somehow describes Annie too(If it doesn't, then I don't know what's the point of the speech for this chapter and the connection on Erwin's description of Annie's actions...). I don't think that's what you'd call someone who would place their lives first.

Also, judging from some chapters where Annie's father appeared(or when she talks about him), I think her father is actually pretty nice, albeit too idealistic, I should say. When her father said to treat the whole world as enemy, that's also the time he said he was wrong. Makes me actually think her father, at first, believed otherwise. I think their village actually hates humanity or some sort(judging how Reiner said he considers humans in the walls are "fools") but Annie's father somehow kind of opposes these kind of views(Seeing as how she connects people like Eren to her father-"going against the tides"). However, something came up and her father is forced to reconsider these beliefs then tells Annie that "every beliefs I forced into you are wrong" kind of speech. But this is just my somehow biased(I'm an Annie-addict XD) and baseless conjecture though.
 
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kannazuki

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Interesting perspective. I'll be reviewing those chapters when I can, so I'll see what you mean when I get there. ;)
 

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Yeah, I definitely can see where you're coming from and it makes lots of sense.

We obviously don't have the full picture yet. Actually we do lack the larger portion of it, so it's kind of hard to definitely frame characters' personalities as well. And I do think Annie definitely got to a point where she's kind of going to her way of living, so to speak, so she's quite troubled as well.

When I say "she puts life first yada yada yada" I'm more talking her basic, underling psychology rather than what she might actually do in the current situation. In fact her stepping out of her way to accept Armin's request for help is a bit "out of character" for her, meaning she's definitely living an inner conflict, changing her mind about some things, etc.

I like how characters in SnK are so dynamic, you can definitely see their personalities evolving over a short span of time, they really do feel alive because of all of their struggles.
 

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Actually I think she decided to help Eren partly because there was an opportunity in it for her to capture him and partly because it doesn't help her to turn him over to the authorities so even if she can't capture him, it's still better to help them out and have him wandering free on his own. I also suspected she might have had a clue what was going down but wasn't sure. Sometimes you have no choice but to go risk springing the trap that you know is waiting for you, and hope that when the time comes, you can still escape.
 
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