Movies Star Wars - The Thread

How was that ep VIII teaser?

  • Amazing, Incredible, Epic!

    Votes: 1 5.0%
  • Good

    Votes: 9 45.0%
  • Okay

    Votes: 2 10.0%
  • Meh

    Votes: 6 30.0%
  • Ugh, utter garbage

    Votes: 2 10.0%

  • Total voters
    20

Jammin

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Ah, no, the scene with luke even considering killing ben is a travesty. I loath everything TLJ did with luke's character (though hammil's performance was admirable). But that is a different thing from leia, a fully trained but non practicing jedi, having luke, a practicing jedi master, train ben not making any sense.

If I understand this correctly, leia originally asked luke to train ben because she felt the darkness in him. So.... If luke then asks leia to get involved... kylo ping pong?
If your kid is nut job. And you send him to some military school. They're still going to call you in if he's being a pain in ass. Especially if you attended that same military school. A friendly face you can relate to.

The whole thing is stupid. But it the more "force capable" Leia is, the worse she looks.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

Now I don't think that was the intention. But it's the unintended subtext. Which is what happens when you retconn.
 

xi0

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You really think that shit was planned?

There are specific things that also give away that there was no plan. Rian Johnson writing and directing on his own in the middle of a trilogy for one. Then there are the character arcs. In the first movie there are the start of character arcs. Like Finn has the same arc in both Force Awakens and The Last Jedi. There is only one way that happens.
Of course not, that's not what I meant when I say there was a plan. The issue is the plan wasn't followed or built upon after TFA, because they let Johnson seemingly ignore the foundation in TFA to do what he wanted. Why did they do that? That's the million dollar question at this point.

But that doesn't mean there was no plan at all and nothing about it remained after TLJ. For me, the linchpin is Rey's parents. For it to have been given importance, the same way Luke's were, what reveal did they have in mind in the first place? I know the most popular theory after TFA was her being related to Obiwan, but how exactly would that be of any real consequence? I just don't think they went "oh, well, we'll leave it be for now and come up with something in the third film... maybe".

And I'm not saying Palpatine's inclusion is good, or an ounce of writing in this movie makes sense, but what I am saying is I find it hard to believe that they didn't have something like this in mind in the first place. The issue is TLJ was so out of left field that this third movie comes off as being more slapdash than it was intended to be, at least conceptually.
 

Jammin

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Of course not, that's not what I meant when I say there was a plan. The issue is the plan wasn't followed or built upon after TFA, because they let Johnson seemingly ignore the foundation in TFA to do what he wanted. Why did they do that? That's the million dollar question at this point.

But that doesn't mean there was no plan at all and nothing about it remained after TLJ. For me, the linchpin is Rey's parents. For it to have been given importance, the same way Luke's were, what reveal did they have in mind in the first place? I know the most popular theory after TFA was her being related to Obiwan, but how exactly would that be of any real consequence? I just don't think they went "oh, well, we'll leave it be for now and come up with something in the third film... maybe".

And I'm not saying Palpatine's inclusion is good, or an ounce of writing in this movie makes sense, but what I am saying is I find it hard to believe that they didn't have something like this in mind in the first place. The issue is TLJ was so out of left field that this third movie comes off as being more slapdash than it was intended to be, at least conceptually.
I'm with you as far as there should have been a plan. But like with Rian Johnson, it's not like Kathleen Kennedy didn't read the script. She had to have done that and she was the one who was in charge. So the plan theoretically would have been hers. She was the one in a position to execute a plan. She just didn't.

Maybe Abrams had a plan during the Force Awakens. I could believe that. Like maybe he gave notes to Johnson that he just threw out but I just don't see any way that these three movies are the result of that planning.

At the end of the day people screw up. And I think Kathleen Kennedy screwed up. That's the answer to the million dollar question. Incompetence.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

I honestly think, we probably would have had The Rise of Skywalker split into two movies. So Abrams could do his second and third movie with a cohesive creative vision. Except the actors were signed for three movies and it's widely rumored that they never want to come back. So they were stuck with this.
 

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To me its genuinely strange that there would have been a properly fleshed out plan for the trilogy and then johnson would have been able to simply do whatever he wanted. Said plan is something that would have cost disney millions of dollars to develop and they would have been hedging the franchise's future on it. Something pretty extraordinary must have happened if they abandoned it seemingly so easily. I suppose they probably just weren't feeling confident after TFA? Johnson single handedly changing disney's mind over something like that seems weird (without additional context) considering that by that time johnson didn't appear to have much to his name filmwise. To me it makes more sense that the plan was very rough originally which gave each director a lot of rope to work with. And johnson abused that and made a movie that might as well have ended the trilogy.... As far as we know each director wrote his movie rather than being given a script which they could play around with.
 

Jammin

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It's not surprising to me really because that's how Hollywood works. It's not a meritocracy. It's who you know. Why would Rian Johnson get carte blanche to do a Star Wars film with as little experience as he's got? Kathleen Kennedy knows and likes him. Got him a job. Probably had to attend a weird sex party dressed up as a Ewok to get it too.

That's how a lot of this stuff works.

Like half the side characters in The Rise of Skywalker are only there because JJ Abrams is friends with them and they are probably getting a paid absurdly. That's almost certainly what's going on with Keri Russell and with Dominique Monehain. They are getting a nice quick paycheck for almost no work.
 

xi0

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To me its genuinely strange that there would have been a properly fleshed out plan for the trilogy and then johnson would have been able to simply do whatever he wanted.
Terrible management? I still see people saying how in love they are with TLJ and saying it's the best SW movie ever made, but even if you are not offended by it, you would have to see that there's too little that links TFA and TLJ thematically. So to say that Rian Johnson was just following some corporate-mandated plot arc that existed prior to him joining is 99.9999% not the case to me.

Perhaps they were just happy they got a directed they were excited to work with and they movie just had to come out in two years so they just did whatever he wanted. Let's be honest, the movie was going to make money either way, that's why they even made these new movies in the first place.
 

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So... seriously, the internet is upset at rose's character not being in the movie? Her role in TLJ was pretty much one of the worst things in it. A pointless sidequest which ex machina's itself by randomly stumbling into the second secret person in the universe who had the hacking skills they needed. The entire side quest should be regarded as straight up insulting but instead people want her back? The hell is going on here?
 

Jammin

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So... seriously, the internet is upset at rose's character not being in the movie? Her role in TLJ was pretty much one of the worst things in it. A pointless sidequest which ex machina's itself by randomly stumbling into the second secret person in the universe who had the hacking skills they needed. The entire side quest should be regarded as straight up insulting but instead people want her back? The hell is going on here?
People are crazy sometimes. They'd really have to be to want more of that.
 

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She was supposed to have more scenes but apparently they were cut because they involved Leia and they couldn't make the CG work or something. I'm sure the people who are upset about it aren't taking that explanation at face value though. Seems like it's an excuse they could use for nearly anything.
 

Jammin

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That has to be like a very small group of very vocal people complaining about Rose. I just cannot believe many people wanted her storyline from the Last Jedi to continue.

What they did was make her more or less a different character played by the same person in the Rise of Skywalker. Which I wholeheartedly approved of. The movie was packed to limit already. Trying to force an irrelevant "romance", if you can even call it that, into the movie would have been madness. It's so clearly a terrible idea on multiple levels
 

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I got the impression Rose was cut so as not to detract from Finn and Poe's officially declared gay relationship.


Which not many may have picked up on.
 

Jammin

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I got the impression Rose was cut so as not to detract from Finn and Poe's officially declared gay relationship.


Which not many may have picked up on.
:blink

I mean, if that was the plan shouldn't they have not done that thing with Zorri Bliss at the end where Poe was like waggling his eyebrows. And she declined the invitation. Sorta feels like they are grasping for straws with that one.
 

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Zorri feels like disney tried to create a new jango fet. As in, a cool character that does very little in movies but becomes extremely popular... and they failed, obviously. No one walks out of that movie remembering her name or wondering anything about her.
 

Jammin

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Zorri feels like disney tried to create a new jango fet. As in, a cool character that does very little in movies but becomes extremely popular... and they failed, obviously. No one walks out of that movie remembering her name or wondering anything about her.
I'm far more cynical. I think she's only in the movie because JJ knows her from Felicity. And that he got his buddy some easy money.
 

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So... seriously, the internet is upset at rose's character not being in the movie? Her role in TLJ was pretty much one of the worst things in it. A pointless sidequest which ex machina's itself by randomly stumbling into the second secret person in the universe who had the hacking skills they needed. The entire side quest should be regarded as straight up insulting but instead people want her back? The hell is going on here?
People are crazy sometimes. They'd really have to be to want more of that.


And now you've got people "campaigning" for her character to have a spin-off series.

Like bruh, come the fuck on. Look, I don't care about Star Wars enough to even watch anything beyond the movies, not even The Mandalorian (seen a few scenes though) but how much more obvious and obnoxious can you get with this pandering stuff?

I really don't care that it's her character specifically, but it just irks me.

I think the whole online trolling thing and harassment she was put through is stupid; you can hate a film, script and characters however much you want, but that should never overflow onto the real world and affect the actors, who did nothing wrong.

That's just dumb, but let's not kid ourselves here; why would her character need/deserve a series, at all...? Because fans rallied around her to defend her? Because there's a group of people that liked her, and didn't like how she was mistreated irl? Because "female empowerment" even though much of her presence/character was pointless in the film?

If you-know-who had survived at the end of IX, I wouldn't mind, but the way things are now, they fucked up, the whole trilogy was fucked up from the start when they decided to not plan out things, so no, I don't think any character deserves or needs any spin-offs. It's unnecessary and pointless, you had your chance.

Of course, the internet/social media nowadays makes you an easy target, literally anyone from all over the world has access to you, if you start engaging with people/trolls it can only go one way.

I'm not saying it was her fault or anything, but just look at the recent shit storm (if that's even what it is) regarding the comments made by John Boyega. Why can't these people just shut the fuck up? Or is it in their contract that they HAVE to tweet X times about the film per day/week or something like that?

With all the stuff that's happened recently with Gunn and such, you'd expect studios to tell their actors to just stfu and not say unnecessary crap and especially not to engage with fans online.

I'm sure you've all seen the compilations of Mark Hamill shitting on The Last Jedi and the like...

Then again, if recent "leaks" about the production of IX are accurate, that would explain Boyega's behavior and recent comments about not wanting at all to be "Disney+'ed", because he has no fucks left to give.

And going by those "leaks", if we assume that they're accurate, I mean that just pretty much explains why things are so bad right now, all because of corporate.

I mean lol, imagine not actually including a scene with the actual force ghosts (I think it was actually shot, with all the actors there) at the end of the film because depiction of ghosts is forbidden in China so they couldn't have that (or something)... like what the fuck.

You'd have to have not much of a soul left to operate with such dumb restrictions, and I think you can see when a film just feels soulless and empty.

Don't know if any of this is true or not, but a lot of things seem to "line up":



"Over a period of 9 months JJ started realizing that one by one his ideas and whole scenes were being thrown out the window or entirely altered by people who have “no business meddling with the creatives”."

I know all too well that it's entertainment, a business, where money has to be made, but the way I see it you've already lost when you're making such big compromises just to please a certain country, especially one such as China with its censorship.

Absolutely ridiculous.


:blink

I mean, if that was the plan shouldn't they have not done that thing with Zorri Bliss at the end where Poe was like waggling his eyebrows. And she declined the invitation. Sorta feels like they are grasping for straws with that one.
Zorri feels like disney tried to create a new jango fet. As in, a cool character that does very little in movies but becomes extremely popular... and they failed, obviously. No one walks out of that movie remembering her name or wondering anything about her.


:heh
 

Jammin

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That's interesting. I'm not sure I believe that's exactly what happened. But if not that then I'm sure something similar occurred.

It's pretty clear at this point who is to blame for what happened and who isn't. The actors definitely aren't. And anybody with a brain should realize that Abrams and even Terrio did what they could. I think, it's abundantly clear what the biggest problem has been for star wars. That's Kathleen Kennedy and her people in charge of Lucas Film.

Sure, some of the actors haven't handled things the best either but they are people who are under a lot of pressure. Even somebody like Rian Johnson. He fucked up but he didn't hire himself for the gig. He didn't greenlight his own bad ideas. What he did was make a Rian Johnson style Star Wars movie which is what they should have expected. They have all been put in a bad position by bad franchise management.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

I also should mention I finished the Mandalorian this last week and it is indeed better than the new trilogy. Even just a one season I'd say it has more memorable characters and moments.
 
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kkck

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The “ending that will blow your mind” was a part of this. Older actors were included like Hayden, Ewan and Samuel and anyone who wasn’t animated. The force ghosts weren’t meant to be voices because they shot that footage on camera. The actors were in costumes. Rey was supposed to be surrounded by the force ghosts to serve as sort of a barrier between her and the Sith surrounding them.


JJ was against the Reylo kiss (or Reylo in general). This was Disney's attempt to please both sides of the fandom.
Those two specific bits stroke a cord with me. The episode IX trailer pretty much brings that image to mind when seeing it. And the scene where rey confronts the emperor... I was actually expecting force ghosts to appear behind rey (and terrify palpatine). In my mind the scene specifically had luke putting his hand over rey's shoulder or something.

And the kiss scene... yeah, that just didn't fit in the movie for me. I barely bought them ever becoming close or even friends... That scene really took me out of the movie so to speak.
 

Jammin

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I was fine with the kiss, honestly. It didn't feel like a big deal to me, which was my criticism of it. But that to me was a symptom of a larger issues that things like the idea of FinnXPoe also suffered from. These characters never really had time to build real dynamics. At times it seemed almost like they didn't like each other. Which is just a matter of lack of time and lack of a coherent plan for character arcs. These actors all had good chemistry. They just never had the chance to make anything of it.

Like I think a Finn X Poe thing would have fallen right on it's face. Primarily because they weren't even entirely believable friends.
 

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I was fine with the kiss, honestly.[...]
I think I understand what they were going for... but if they really only added it in there to "please the fandom", no wonder it got such a backlash.

Like, I can understand Ben wanting to kiss her because he knows he's going to die/he's grateful to having been turned to the good side, and if Rey also wanting to do the same as a "farewell" kind of thing, but it wasn't even that...

That, coupled with the super weird fact that he didn't say a single fucking word after the scene with Han Solo until he dies... it's just really heckin' weird, and it certainly didn't help the kiss scene at all.

Says nothing, kiss, dies... of course people just laughed out loud.

If he had said something implying that it took all in him to save her, and that he was moments away from dying, and Rey sensed it, her kissing him out of pity(?) or something would've made sense and Ben would've welcomed that act of love and compassion before dying smiling in her arms as he dissipates...

I mean don't rip me for this but something like that would've made it more believable and warranted for me.


Like I think a Finn X Poe thing would have fallen right on it's face. Primarily because they weren't even entirely believable friends.
Yeah, it's almost as if they wanted to go down that route just because they can.

Like why would they have fallen in love...? I guess there's a lot we don't see in between films but still, would've been a similar situation to this, kinda:
 

Jammin

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You can't really do a satisfying romantic character arc without, well, character dynamics.

But this is a recurring example of a pet peeve of mine. I think there is a mistaken belief with a lot of movie executives, and sadly writers, that romance is something you can just do. Without any groundwork. But unfortunately to do it well you need to build a character dynamic and bond that the audience can invest in then the culmination of that is would be something like a kiss.

This is something even most of the marvel movies have really struggled with. They just toss love interests in there because "every story needs one" without really understanding how and why they elevate a story. The groundwork is really what gives such a thing value in the story.

Like I strongly agree with the idea that space operas and adventure movies are better with a romantic aspect in them. But that means actually giving setting aside time to develop things. James Gunn's Guardians of the Galaxy movies are some of the only ones that really got this right.
 
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