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Combatant 1: Sting
Powers: White Dragon Slaying Magic, Dragon Force

Combatant 2: Gray
Powers: Ice Make, Ice Demon Slaying Magic

Location: GMG Arena
Intel: Full intel for both characters
Mood: Bloodlusted
Starting Distance: 50 meters
Restrictions: PiS, CiS, hype, feats against demons, anime feats.

Scenario 1: Speed equalized
Scenario 2: No speed restrictions.

  • This is Post-Tartaros Sting, which means that he has feats from Fairy Tail Gaiden such as this one (Fairy Tail Gaiden is canon; and even if it wasn't, it's allowed in this match-up). Feats from Tartaros arc and GMG arc can still be used; however, any downplaying because of feats prior to Gaiden is not acceptable.

  • This is Current Gray. Feats against demons are not accepted (feats against curses, such as freezing a twister are accepted though) except if for AoE calcs, speed calcs, etc - at least until it's proven that humans have as much resistance to IDSM as demons. This means that spells such as Ice Devil's Bow can't be scaled to City level just because it damaged Etherious Mard. No hype (this means no logical deductions that Current Gray is much superior to Tartaros Gray just because it's one year later), speculation or scaling with characters such as Natsu and Silver is allowed.
My take: Sting takes both scenarios high to extreme diff.

Now, this is bound to get pretty heated... Do not post one-liners such as "Sting pwns" or "Gray instafreezes". Always back up your arguments with any other feats or viable scaling. Always respect others and don't flame
 

Arjuna

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Sting should win as He Got a power boost as Dragon Left His Body and he should be able to activate DF like First Generation Dragon Slayers.
 

Vasgoko

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Combatant 1: Sting
Powers: White Dragon Slaying Magic, Dragon Force

Combatant 2: Gray
Powers: Ice Make, Ice Demon Slaying Magic

Location: GMG Arena
Intel: Full intel for both characters
Mood: Bloodlusted
Starting Distance: 50 meters
Restrictions: PiS, CiS, hype, feats against demons, anime feats.

Scenario 1: Speed equalized
Scenario 2: No speed restrictions.

  • This is Post-Tartaros Sting, which means that he has feats from Fairy Tail Gaiden such as this one (Fairy Tail Gaiden is canon; and even if it wasn't, it's allowed in this match-up). Feats from Tartaros arc and GMG arc can still be used; however, any downplaying because of feats prior to Gaiden is not acceptable.

  • This is Current Gray. Feats against demons are not accepted (feats against curses, such as freezing a twister are accepted though) except if for AoE calcs, speed calcs, etc - at least until it's proven that humans have as much resistance to IDSM as demons. This means that spells such as Ice Devil's Bow can't be scaled to City level just because it damaged Etherious Mard. No hype (this means no logical deductions that Current Gray is much superior to Tartaros Gray just because it's one year later), speculation or scaling with characters such as Natsu and Silver is allowed.
My take: Sting takes both scenarios high to extreme diff.

Now, this is bound to get pretty heated... Do not post one-liners such as "Sting pwns" or "Gray instafreezes". Always back up your arguments with any other feats or viable scaling. Always respect others and don't flame

In both scenarios, Gray takes this rather easy diff if not, then mid diff max. Sting couldn't 2v1 Natsu with Rogue by his side. So Sting definitely has some weak feats.

I don't exactly know what "speculations or scaling with characters as Natsu and Silver is allowed" means, but whatever.

Wait, no, nevermind, there are way too many restrictions here in Sting's favor. Sting oneshots Gray with absolutely no diff.
 

Coné

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In both scenarios, Gray takes this rather easy diff if not, then mid diff max. Sting couldn't 2v1 Natsu with Rogue by his side. So Sting definitely has some weak feats.

I don't exactly know what "speculations or scaling with characters such as Natsu and Silver is allowed" means, but whatever.

Wait, no, nevermind, there are way too many restrictions here in Sting's favor. Sting oneshots Gray with absolutely no diff.
All the restrictions I put on Gray are basically the same all of us should be putting on all of his threads as of now. You just can't scale damage to demons to damage to humans, making this featless. I even equalized speed on one of the scenarios and Gray still has all of his Tartaros' stats except for DC which is featless in a thread like this. No scaling with Gray or Silver means that you can't scale their feats to Gray.
And that's some big Sting downplaying yo. Tartaros Sting was stronger than GMG Sting, making that assumption useless and Sting has a Town+ buster in FT Gaiden.
 

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Scenario 1 : Gray wins high diff due to equalised speed .
Scenario 2 : sting wins high extrem diff
 

Vasgoko

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All the restrictions I put on Gray are basically the same all of us should be putting on all of his threads as of now. You just can't scale damage to demons to damage to humans, making this featless. I even equalized speed on one of the scenarios and Gray still has all of his Tartaros' stats except for DC which is featless in a thread like this. No scaling with Gray or Silver means that you can't scale their feats to Gray.
And that's some big Sting downplaying yo. Tartaros Sting was stronger than GMG Sting, making that assumption useless and Sting has a Town+ buster in FT Gaiden.

I never said anything about scaling damage. But Sting has shown no damage feats on humans either. He lost 2v1 against Natsu. He also performed a Unison Raid when he lost. By himself, he would be wrecked by Natsu.

Your restrictions are totally unfair because you are using Gaiden feats when Gray doesn't have any other exterior battles outside of what we've seen.

You are practically raising the chances for Sting's victory because the powerscaling in Gaiden is far off from the powerscaling in Fairy Tail. It's impossible to tell.

You allow Post Tartaros Sting and "Current Gray", but then you go and restrict Gray even further that he can't even be considered "Current Gray" anymore cuz there is nothing left.

I find this battle biased, my statement stands and ends here:

Sting oneshots Gray in both scenarios with absolutely no diff.
 

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Tbh, I can't see any possible form or manner in which Sting defeats Gray. For starters, Natsu defeated both DF rogue and sting with moderate difficulty even after they used unison raid. Gray and Natsu are equals execpt and advanced power is involved (DF or dual mode). If Natsu barely had difficulty beating both sting and rogue, how can rogue alone possibly beat Gray?
Also, since getting his devil slayer magic, we've seen grays range and speed in ice attacks increase tremendously. We saw how fast he froze all of tempesta's attacks. Also how he froze Mard geer's attacks.
Another point is durability. Gray (and FT mages in general) are monsters in this regard. They simply keep fighting. Heck after fighting silver, he was barely visible beneath the blood and bruises but he could keep going. Even after taking a pounding from Etherious MG, he didn't stay down. Also, speed isn't a problem. Gray has fought Racer before and he's pretty fast himself, we'll certainly fast enough with his spells for it to not be a problem.
Gray takes both scenario with mid difficultly at best. DF is supposed to be a game changer but if Sting/Rogue's DF level is at a point where base Natsu can handle them with mid diff, then it's not a problem for Gray.
 

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Tbh, I can't see any possible form or manner in which Sting defeats Gray. For starters, Natsu defeated both DF rogue and sting with moderate difficulty even after they used unison raid. Gray and Natsu are equals execpt and advanced power is involved (DF or dual mode). If Natsu barely had difficulty beating both sting and rogue, how can rogue alone possibly beat Gray?
Also, since getting his devil slayer magic, we've seen grays range and speed in ice attacks increase tremendously. We saw how fast he froze all of tempesta's attacks. Also how he froze Mard geer's attacks.
Another point is durability. Gray (and FT mages in general) are monsters in this regard. They simply keep fighting. Heck after fighting silver, he was barely visible beneath the blood and bruises but he could keep going. Even after taking a pounding from Etherious MG, he didn't stay down. Also, speed isn't a problem. Gray has fought Racer before and he's pretty fast himself, we'll certainly fast enough with his spells for it to not be a problem.
Gray takes both scenario with mid difficultly at best. DF is supposed to be a game changer but if Sting/Rogue's DF level is at a point where base Natsu can handle them with mid diff, then it's not a problem for Gray.
A fight between Sting and Natsu is a lot different than a fight between Sting and Gray. I think Gray is in a disadvantage against Sting, because Sting can engrave a stigma into him which he can't burn away like Natsu did. Gray's movements will be restricted. This will give Sting a higher chance to beat him with Dragon Force.
 

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A fight between Sting and Natsu is a lot different than a fight between Sting and Gray. I think Gray is in a disadvantage against Sting, because Sting can engrave a stigma into him which he can't burn away like Natsu did. Gray's movements will be restricted. This will give Sting a higher chance to beat him with Dragon Force.
Why is it different? Gray is just as strong and durable as base Natsu who defeated them and also, Natsu fought both of them at the same time. The fight would've been a lot easier if it was one on one. As for the stigma, it's not that much of a game changer. Who's to say gray can't freeze it over and crush it? Or maybe his demon mark can erase it. Besides, Gray is very good with clones, he can simply trick Sting into engraving the stigma on an ice clone
 

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I never said anything about scaling damage. But Sting has shown no damage feats on humans either. He lost 2v1 against Natsu. He also performed a Unison Raid when he lost. By himself, he would be wrecked by Natsu.

Your restrictions are totally unfair because you are using Gaiden feats when Gray doesn't have any other exterior battles outside of what we've seen.

You are practically raising the chances for Sting's victory because the powerscaling in Gaiden is far off from the powerscaling in Fairy Tail. It's impossible to tell.

You allow Post Tartaros Sting and "Current Gray", but then you go and restrict Gray even further that he can't even be considered "Current Gray" anymore cuz there is nothing left.

I find this battle biased, my statement stands and ends here:

Sting oneshots Gray in both scenarios with absolutely no diff.
Sting has an energy feat, so why does he need a feat on humans? Once Gray shows us a AoE feat on the level of the DC feats he showed us against Mard, you'll be able to scale the damage. Right now? He doesn't have any considerable feats.

Gaiden Sting is much stronger than GMG Sting. This feat right there proves it:


That was a casual town busting cannon. Ask for the statement if you wish to do so.

Gray still has all of his other feats, such as freezing all of Base Mard's attacks, freezing a twister, casting IM: Gungnir and IM: Silver, his durability, strength and speed feats, etc. All I restricted was the damage no one can measure. No one can know how effective DeS attacks would be against Sting, so all you have is those attacks' AoE, which is highly unimpressive.

Fairy Tail Gaiden is canon. If Sting has a feat on this level, why wouldn't we use it to compare his power with other characters? I don't get what you're saying.

What? You're annoyed that I restricted Gray of feats he couldn't use anyways? Gray simply can't use those feats because there's nothing that proves that it is indeed more damaging than Ice-Make. I'm sure that IDSM improved Gray's AoE, as seen with IM: Silver, but that doesn't mean that he also improved his DC.

Why no diff? That's just illogical...
Tbh, I can't see any possible form or manner in which Sting defeats Gray. For starters, Natsu defeated both DF rogue and sting with moderate difficulty even after they used unison raid. Gray and Natsu are equals execpt and advanced power is involved (DF or dual mode). If Natsu barely had difficulty beating both sting and rogue, how can rogue alone possibly beat Gray?
Also, since getting his devil slayer magic, we've seen grays range and speed in ice attacks increase tremendously. We saw how fast he froze all of tempesta's attacks. Also how he froze Mard geer's attacks.
Another point is durability. Gray (and FT mages in general) are monsters in this regard. They simply keep fighting. Heck after fighting silver, he was barely visible beneath the blood and bruises but he could keep going. Even after taking a pounding from Etherious MG, he didn't stay down. Also, speed isn't a problem. Gray has fought Racer before and he's pretty fast himself, we'll certainly fast enough with his spells for it to not be a problem.
Gray takes both scenario with mid difficultly at best. DF is supposed to be a game changer but if Sting/Rogue's DF level is at a point where base Natsu can handle them with mid diff, then it's not a problem for Gray.
This is post-Tartaros Sting, so being defeated by Natsu doesn't exactly apply anymore as this is a much stronger version of Sting. This is basically Tartaros Sting (who's already way stronger than GMG Sting) with the DC feat he had in Fairy Tail Gaiden.
Why is it different? Gray is just as strong and durable as base Natsu who defeated them and also, Natsu fought both of them at the same time. The fight would've been a lot easier if it was one on one. As for the stigma, it's not that much of a game changer. Who's to say gray can't freeze it over and crush it? Or maybe his demon mark can erase it. Besides, Gray is very good with clones, he can simply trick Sting into engraving the stigma on an ice clone
Both of them have full intel, so Sting would probably be able to avoid Gray's clones and Gray could probably avoid the stigma.
 

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Sting has an energy feat, so why does he need a feat on humans? Once Gray shows us a AoE feat on the level of the DC feats he showed us against Mard, you'll be able to scale the damage. Right now? He doesn't have any considerable feats.

Gaiden Sting is much stronger than GMG Sting. This feat right there proves it:


That was a casual town busting cannon. Ask for the statement if you wish to do so.

Gray still has all of his other feats, such as freezing all of Base Mard's attacks, freezing a twister, casting IM: Gungnir and IM: Silver, his durability, strength and speed feats, etc. All I restricted was the damage no one can measure. No one can know how effective DeS attacks would be against Sting, so all you have is those attacks' AoE, which is highly unimpressive.

Fairy Tail Gaiden is canon. If Sting has a feat on this level, why wouldn't we use it to compare his power with other characters? I don't get what you're saying.

What? You're annoyed that I restricted Gray of feats he couldn't use anyways? Gray simply can't use those feats because there's nothing that proves that it is indeed more damaging than Ice-Make. I'm sure that IDSM improved Gray's AoE, as seen with IM: Silver, but that doesn't mean that he also improved his DC.

Why no diff? That's just illogical...

This is post-Tartaros Sting, so being defeated by Natsu doesn't exactly apply anymore as this is a much stronger version of Sting. This is basically Tartaros Sting (who's already way stronger than GMG Sting) with the DC feat he had in Fairy Tail Gaiden.

Both of them have full intel, so Sting would probably be able to avoid Gray's clones and Gray could probably avoid the stigma.
I'm aware of that but it's not much difference. For starters, you're severely overestimating that attack.


How much difference is there between Tempesta's blisters and that attack? Sure sting's looks bigger because it's more concentrated in one move while the blisters were sepearte but they're pretty much the same size when you consider the relative sizes of the humans standing beside the attacks. The blisters are probably even larger but Tartarus gray instantly froze the attack in one move. Consider the radius he froze when Ajeel attacked them. That's far larger than the attack from sting that you posted early and have been referring to as though it was a clear indication that sting was superior.

Also, on the point that gray didn't grow, that's seriously incorrect. We specifically had Makarov state that their magic was nothing like a year ago.
. There's no reason to doubt Makarov's words. They clearly improved a great deal and that much is evident in the little glimpses of battles we've seen. Another point, future rogue fought and killed sting and even though he acquired dual slayer mode, GMG Natsu was still keeping up with him and eventually defeated him. I seriously can't see how sting would win.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
Also, sting knowing about the ice clones doesn't follow. Gray watched Sting's battle against Natsu and thus would know about the stigma but Gray didn't use clones where Sting could see iirc. Well even if we assume they both know, it doesn't mean gray can't trick sting for an attack. Even silver for tricked despite knowing about the ice clones
 

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Gray is better at every point in the series I believe. At GMG/Tartarus I put them sorta close with Gray being better.

And this goes for now too. I believe Sting will definitely be stronger than he used to be, but Gray in front. His Silver use against Ajeel confirms to me he has improved, Makarov spoke of his power too. Without seeing Sting do anything it's very hard to make a case for Sting > Gray. Only way he gets stronger than Gray is if he's trained a lot more which there is no evidence for.

My guess: Gray wins mid to high diff.
 

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I'm aware of that but it's not much difference. For starters, you're severely overestimating that attack.


How much difference is there between Tempesta's blisters and that attack? Sure sting's looks bigger because it's more concentrated in one move while the blisters were sepearte but they're pretty much the same size when you consider the relative sizes of the humans standing beside the attacks. The blisters are probably even larger but Tartarus gray instantly froze the attack in one move. Consider the radius he froze when Ajeel attacked them. That's far larger than the attack from sting that you posted early and have been referring to as though it was a clear indication that sting was superior.

Also, on the point that gray didn't grow, that's seriously incorrect. We specifically had Makarov state that their magic was nothing like a year ago.
. There's no reason to doubt Makarov's words. They clearly improved a great deal and that much is evident in the little glimpses of battles we've seen. Another point, future rogue fought and killed sting and even though he acquired dual slayer mode, GMG Natsu was still keeping up with him and eventually defeated him. I seriously can't see how sting would win.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
Also, sting knowing about the ice clones doesn't follow. Gray watched Sting's battle against Natsu and thus would know about the stigma but Gray didn't use clones where Sting could see iirc. Well even if we assume they both know, it doesn't mean gray can't trick sting for an attack. Even silver for tricked despite knowing about the ice clones
I'm not overrating this attack because we have a statement to back this up:


It says that it can easily erase a whole town, so it might even be stronger than that. DF Sting overpowered that attack with a roar, so it means that the roar is indeed a town buster.

The difference between the twister and Sting's roar is that Sting overpowered a town-busting cannon and the twister's best DC feat was destroying a small building and affecting the Thunder God Tribe, who barely have any durability feats anyways.
The area IM: Silver affected was MCB-sized, which is still smaller than a town. Now consider that Gray didn't really destroy that area, he froze it. This makes the attack less powerful than Sting's roar and is further proof that Gray will probably not freeze any of DF Sting's attacks or Sting himself.

I'm not doubting that Gray has improved over the timeskip, but there's no actual evidence of how strong he grew. He might be on par with Natsu or he could be just a tiny little bit stronger. Makarov's statement indicates that their magic has changed and not that they've become necessarily stronger (Lucy now uses Stardresses and Gray uses IDSM).

We don't have evidence of how Future Rogue killed Sting. He could have just stabbed Sting behind the back or he could have defeated him in an actual battle, so that desn't really mean that he is stronger (though I do believe that Future Rogue was stronger than Sting). Furthermore, Atlas-powered Natsu defeated Future Rogue. Atlas-powered Natsu was much stronger than Gray, so it's not scaleable.

Full intel means that Sting knows all Gray has up his sleeve while Gray knows the same about Sting. Not ruling out the chance that Gray might trick Sting, but it's unlikely in these conditions. Not to mention that Silver was holding back against Gray.
 

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This is a bit hard. It's easier to argue for grey because we have seen bits and bits of him and we have some context regarding his strength. With sting not so much. We saw him get foderized by natsu a while back and considering what we have seen it would seem likely that grey would beat him as well. Although that would imply rufus was that much stronger than sting which would be kinda weird. Then we saw sting get a nakama powerup at which point his power was supposedly much greater than jienma's, whom natsu matched with lightning flame. And then grey got himself a powerup through his devil slayer magic and probably even demonic body. Within recent chapters he was able to hold back ajir's alongside lucy which is arguably a much greater feat than anything sting has done. Of course, sting probably has been training and has grown stronger as well...

Everything considered, I would go for sting. Since the dragons left the DS bodies the implication is that they can enter dragon force at will. Wendy manages it on her own and natsu did so against mardgeer. Even if the two are tied at base form I would think that dragon force will end up giving sting the edge considering it could well more than triple sting's power.
 

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I'm not overrating this attack because we have a statement to back this up:


It says that it can easily erase a whole town, so it might even be stronger than that. DF Sting overpowered that attack with a roar, so it means that the roar is indeed a town buster.

The difference between the twister and Sting's roar is that Sting overpowered a town-busting cannon and the twister's best DC feat was destroying a small building and affecting the Thunder God Tribe, who barely have any durability feats anyways.
The area IM: Silver affected was MCB-sized, which is still smaller than a town. Now consider that Gray didn't really destroy that area, he froze it. This makes the attack less powerful than Sting's roar and is further proof that Gray will probably not freeze any of DF Sting's attacks or Sting himself.

I'm not doubting that Gray has improved over the timeskip, but there's no actual evidence of how strong he grew. He might be on par with Natsu or he could be just a tiny little bit stronger. Makarov's statement indicates that their magic has changed and not that they've become necessarily stronger (Lucy now uses Stardresses and Gray uses IDSM).

We don't have evidence of how Future Rogue killed Sting. He could have just stabbed Sting behind the back or he could have defeated him in an actual battle, so that desn't really mean that he is stronger (though I do believe that Future Rogue was stronger than Sting). Furthermore, Atlas-powered Natsu defeated Future Rogue. Atlas-powered Natsu was much stronger than Gray, so it's not scaleable.

Full intel means that Sting knows all Gray has up his sleeve while Gray knows the same about Sting. Not ruling out the chance that Gray might trick Sting, but it's unlikely in these conditions. Not to mention that Silver was holding back against Gray.
It still doesn't change anything, the magic is comparable the pint was that gray can freeze such an attack. Tempesta's twisters might have damaged a building but how many did he use? And he wasn't in his Etherious form then, also, his focus was on said building. Also, the fact that an attack is dangerous and large scale doesn't mean it's fatal. Take Gildarts using his bare hands to block Natsu's Crimson lotus attacks which he's used to deal severe damage to other characters. Gray is durable and has the ability to freeze attacks. He can handle such attacks.

You're taking Makarov's words out of context. He was reacting to the fact that they were using different magic but their actual magic. When someone compares magic in that way, they're talking about the capacity not the particular type. It's just like when gray and the others reacted to brandish's magic and said she was better than Makarov. Also, Lucy's stardress is still celestial magic. Gray already use DeS magic in Tartarus. Even Lucy used Aquarius star dress back then.

It was said that rogue defeated sting in battle not that he ambushed him. You missed my point. Even before Natsu for powered up by atlas flame, he was keeping up fairly well with Rogue and rogue had dual elements. That's saying a lot.

Silver's actions and words are quite different. He might have refrained from actually killing gray but he didn't go easy. Gray was left bloodied and bruised. Also, silver holding back is irrelevant, he still got tricked.

This is a bit hard. It's easier to argue for grey because we have seen bits and bits of him and we have some context regarding his strength. With sting not so much. We saw him get foderized by natsu a while back and considering what we have seen it would seem likely that grey would beat him as well. Although that would imply rufus was that much stronger than sting which would be kinda weird. Then we saw sting get a nakama powerup at which point his power was supposedly much greater than jienma's, whom natsu matched with lightning flame. And then grey got himself a powerup through his devil slayer magic and probably even demonic body. Within recent chapters he was able to hold back ajir's alongside lucy which is arguably a much greater feat than anything sting has done. Of course, sting probably has been training and has grown stronger as well...

Everything considered, I would go for sting. Since the dragons left the DS bodies the implication is that they can enter dragon force at will. Wendy manages it on her own and natsu did so against mardgeer. Even if the two are tied at base form I would think that dragon force will end up giving sting the edge considering it could well more than triple sting's power.
But what effect did the dragons leaving having on sting and rogue? Both of them were already capable of DF at will and even then, even when fighting together in DF, they got wrecked for the most part.

About Rufus, that wasn't really the implication. Rufus is a naturally troublesome opponent if you don't overwhelm him from the start. Also, his magic type enables his memorize magic. For the period he fought gray, he ended up using gray's attacks + something extra against the latter until gray overwhelmed him with sheer number and casting speed.

Imo, if we're going strictly by what we saw, sting still isn't a match for FT's main combatants, Gray included. He'd have to have gotten an immense boost for such an idea to valid. We've barely seen anything from him to suggest he can match up to Gray who is very possibly still in base Natsu's league right now. Even if DF gave sting a sizable enough boost, I don't see him being anywhere near as durable as gray in battle.
 

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I change my mind gray takes both round mid diff possibly high diff because for me ice make silver>all sting feats gray have a really good durability and he can just use an ice clones and ice demon roar sting by behind.
 

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But what effect did the dragons leaving having on sting and rogue? Both of them were already capable of DF at will and even then, even when fighting together in DF, they got wrecked for the most part.

About Rufus, that wasn't really the implication. Rufus is a naturally troublesome opponent if you don't overwhelm him from the start. Also, his magic type enables his memorize magic. For the period he fought gray, he ended up using gray's attacks + something extra against the latter until gray overwhelmed him with sheer number and casting speed.

Imo, if we're going strictly by what we saw, sting still isn't a match for FT's main combatants, Gray included. He'd have to have gotten an immense boost for such an idea to valid. We've barely seen anything from him to suggest he can match up to Gray who is very possibly still in base Natsu's league right now. Even if DF gave sting a sizable enough boost, I don't see him being anywhere near as durable as gray in battle.
Ahh, you are right, they did have that to begin with. Now, it is true they got wrecked but both of them got a significant powerup from that point. Sting got his nakama powerup when lector disappeared and rogue eventually followed suit considering he was able to keep up with sting when they confronted demon jienma. And we have some pretty strong context regarding how much of a feat that is considering mashima did give us tartarus demons stats and if we go by what was said jiemma was much stronger than any of them. Also worth noting, sting and rogue overpowered jiemma without using dragon drive or dragon force.

Now, I doubt jiemma was actually as strong as mard geer however the strength range permitted here still allows for jiemma to be a massive threat and the fact that he was defeated without dragon force on their part is commendable. I would argue that this provides some more than respectable context regarding how strong sting and rogue are. We saw natsu and gajeel fight very well against tempesta and torafusa. For the most part they overpowored them however in turn its not like they were able to win instantly. Torafusa was particularly troublesome. And even then, kyoka is portrayed as several times stronger than either in every regard. Erza managed to surpass kyoka for the most part. With this in mind for me it is kinda hard to argue that natsu could match up to erza at that point, if anything even with lightning flame erza has an edge. And even then, erza managed to win against kyoka and sting and rogue defeated someone much stronger than that.

So now the plot moves 1 year. 1 year through which sting and rogue also trained. I guess a big part of this depends on them keeping up with the other dragon slayers. Assuming their positions toward natsu in terms of power remains the same then I would definitely see dragon force sting beating grey. In context if we consider demon stats it does seem like dragon force still triples or quadruples the strength of the user.

In other words, sting's base form needs to be at about a third of grey's demon form for dragon force to put him at least even with grey. Any less than that and sting easily surpasses greys' power.
 

Axiomus

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I think it's pretty fair to say that Gray wins this, given the fact that this is Tartarus Arc Sting and Alvarez level Gray.
 

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Ahh, you are right, they did have that to begin with. Now, it is true they got wrecked but both of them got a significant powerup from that point. Sting got his nakama powerup when lector disappeared and rogue eventually followed suit considering he was able to keep up with sting when they confronted demon jienma. And we have some pretty strong context regarding how much of a feat that is considering mashima did give us tartarus demons stats and if we go by what was said jiemma was much stronger than any of them. Also worth noting, sting and rogue overpowered jiemma without using dragon drive or dragon force.

Now, I doubt jiemma was actually as strong as mard geer however the strength range permitted here still allows for jiemma to be a massive threat and the fact that he was defeated without dragon force on their part is commendable. I would argue that this provides some more than respectable context regarding how strong sting and rogue are. We saw natsu and gajeel fight very well against tempesta and torafusa. For the most part they overpowored them however in turn its not like they were able to win instantly. Torafusa was particularly troublesome. And even then, kyoka is portrayed as several times stronger than either in every regard. Erza managed to surpass kyoka for the most part. With this in mind for me it is kinda hard to argue that natsu could match up to erza at that point, if anything even with lightning flame erza has an edge. And even then, erza managed to win against kyoka and sting and rogue defeated someone much stronger than that.

So now the plot moves 1 year. 1 year through which sting and rogue also trained. I guess a big part of this depends on them keeping up with the other dragon slayers. Assuming their positions toward natsu in terms of power remains the same then I would definitely see dragon force sting beating grey. In context if we consider demon stats it does seem like dragon force still triples or quadruples the strength of the user.

In other words, sting's base form needs to be at about a third of grey's demon form for dragon force to put him at least even with grey. Any less than that and sting easily surpasses greys' power.
Well even though Jiemma was apparently stronger than the demon gates, the fact is that while FT mages generally fought one on one, Sting and Rogue fought together and they have history as well as good team chemistry. It's indeed impressive that they defeated Jiemma but they took a pounding for majority of the fight and they collapsed afterwards, unable to do anything. Gray on the other hand, fought silver (possibly taking more severe beating), went on to tempesta, then on to Mard Geer and ultimately Etherious Mard Geer where he and Natsu took a solid beating for a while. He then took the full brunt of memento mori, still stood back up even though he'd fallen and wasn't supposed to be able to get back and then delivered the finishing blow to Mard Geer. He and Natsu were still standing and even arguing about END's book afterwards. It's a world of difference in terms of durability and stamina. Gray can simply keep on going even after taking a beating. Like I said, sting can possibly overwhelm Gray with DF, but I see him being able to withstand the hypothetical barrage (even though I don't think it'd be that one sided). A year after and Gray obviously grew immensely, even surprising Makarov who said their power was nothing like a year ago. I don't think Sting would've grown as much as Gray in the large schee of things so DF imo, would only give him a slight advantage which wouldn't suffice for him to ultimately win.
 

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Ahh, you are right, they did have that to begin with. Now, it is true they got wrecked but both of them got a significant powerup from that point. Sting got his nakama powerup when lector disappeared and rogue eventually followed suit considering he was able to keep up with sting when they confronted demon jienma. And we have some pretty strong context regarding how much of a feat that is considering mashima did give us tartarus demons stats and if we go by what was said jiemma was much stronger than any of them. Also worth noting, sting and rogue overpowered jiemma without using dragon drive or dragon force.

Now, I doubt jiemma was actually as strong as mard geer however the strength range permitted here still allows for jiemma to be a massive threat and the fact that he was defeated without dragon force on their part is commendable. I would argue that this provides some more than respectable context regarding how strong sting and rogue are. We saw natsu and gajeel fight very well against tempesta and torafusa. For the most part they overpowored them however in turn its not like they were able to win instantly. Torafusa was particularly troublesome. And even then, kyoka is portrayed as several times stronger than either in every regard. Erza managed to surpass kyoka for the most part. With this in mind for me it is kinda hard to argue that natsu could match up to erza at that point, if anything even with lightning flame erza has an edge. And even then, erza managed to win against kyoka and sting and rogue defeated someone much stronger than that.

So now the plot moves 1 year. 1 year through which sting and rogue also trained. I guess a big part of this depends on them keeping up with the other dragon slayers. Assuming their positions toward natsu in terms of power remains the same then I would definitely see dragon force sting beating grey. In context if we consider demon stats it does seem like dragon force still triples or quadruples the strength of the user.

In other words, sting's base form needs to be at about a third of grey's demon form for dragon force to put him at least even with grey. Any less than that and sting easily surpasses greys' power.
I don't think sting can easily surpass gray
 
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