Discussion Strawhat Lineages

[kkck]

I find the development a tad weird but seeing how the arcs have progressed lately it seems like the lineages and ancestry of the strawhats are going to continue to gain importance in the future. Overall there are 3 strawhats whose ancestry seems important to the metaplot:

Luffy: He is the son of dragon and grandson of garp and also a D. Dunno if there is more to his ancestry but it is remarkable that 3 members in a row have turned out to be so powerful. As in, garp was at least admiral class in his prime as far as we know and even turned down the actual promotion... Dragon's power is unknown but he is the most wanted man in the war. And luffy presumably has the potential to surpass the yonko.

Sanji: His ancestry became important in the previous arc. He was born to the vinsmokes who until recently held a seat in reverie. It also seems like their kingdom might go way back... Who knows what their history with the world government and tenryubito is.

Zoro: This one isn't confirmed but there are strong hints that zoro not only originates from wano but he might also be a shimotsuki himself and if not that, descended from the family. Oda has shown us a couple daimyo and the shimotsuki one consistently has a resemblance to zoro. As far as we know daimyo's inherit their positions... So if the shimotsuki date far back enough in time then they could have a connection to how wano ended up separated and by extension an enemy of the world government. Zoro also has a strong resemblance to ryuma so we probably can't rule out a blood connection. Of course, there are other possibilities here (like the shimotsuki not dating that far back or attaining their position once ryuma became the god of swordsmanship in which case their history wouldn't go that far back).

Anyways, this kinda looks like the strawhat's monster trio all have bloodlines which the tenryubito could consider problematic or worst. So.... where is oda going with this?

 

[McNuss]

I don't think Zoro is a Shimotsuki himself. As far as I know Oda said that a character we all know well has ties to Wano but that it will be a minor detail.

The character we all know well must be Zoro as his teacher who likely also originates from Wano (and who has a far greater chance of being a Shimotsuki) is a very minor character.

However if Zoro would be related to the Shimotsukis, that would not be a minor detail, or rather it could be in-story but the fanbase would certainly flipp out over it and Oda should be aware of that considering how high Zoro ranks in popularity and that One Piece fans flipp out over much smaller things like bounties.

It should be noted that Zoro is probably distantly genetically related to the Shimotsukis just like his entire village and everyone in Ringo and probably all of Wano. Because Wano isn't that huge and it can be mathematically proven that millions of people in Asia are linked to Genghis Khan and everyone in Western Europe to Charlemagne and so on.

 

[kkck]

I don't think Zoro is a Shimotsuki himself. As far as I know Oda said that a character we all know well has ties to Wano but that it will be a minor detail.

The character we all know well must be Zoro as his teacher who likely also originates from Wano (and who has a far greater chance of being a Shimotsuki) is a very minor character.

However if Zoro would be related to the Shimotsukis, that would not be a minor detail, or rather it could be in-story but the fanbase would certainly flipp out over it and Oda should be aware of that considering how high Zoro ranks in popularity and that One Piece fans flipp out over much smaller things like bounties.

It should be noted that Zoro is probably distantly genetically related to the Shimotsukis just like his entire village and everyone in Ringo and probably all of Wano. Because Wano isn't that huge and it can be mathematically proven that millions of people in Asia are linked to Genghis Khan and everyone in Western Europe to Charlemagne and so on.

Why bet on the teacher? The place zoro is from is already called shimotsuki village and we know there was a migration from wano some time ago. So most people in shimotsuki village likely descend from there. Add to that, why would oda specifically include zoro's likeness to the shimotsuki if he isn't connected to them? And then have someone who looks entirely different actually be a shimotsuki? Even if zoro isn't a shimotsuki, zoro's teacher being one makes no sense at all.


As for the last paragraph, that is certainly true. But.... since when does oda care about math? Sure, claiming a priviledge over being descended from someone from 800 years ago is beyond absurd as that person from 800 years ago could potentially have millions of descendants after hundreds of years. But oda would have to give a crap about that. Or even be aware of that. Within OP oda has ultimately shown that lineages can be special and if not that that people within the series care enough about them to make them relevant. That is why oden and momonosuke can hear the voice of all things, why the world government went after garp, why there are tenryubito.

I agree in that zoro being a shimotsuki is not a small detail though. Though it might still not be a gigantic plot point.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 9, 2020, Original Post Date: Jan 9, 2020 ---

Oh, I just checked the wikia and realized ryuma was already confirmed to be shimotsuki ryuma. So.... yep.

 

[Luke Beifong]

Luffy: He is son of Dragon and grandson of Garp. I think it’s enough relevance for the history.

Zoro: I don’t think his parents are from Wano or anything like this, the only connection I can make is if Zoro is a descendant of Ryuma and because of this he can keep Shunsui. Anything more than that I think it’s irrelevant for the history.

Nami: She’s been fond by Bellemere after her parents died in the cross fire between Pirates and the Marines. End of history.

Ussop: His mother died from disease and he have a bad dad. Probably Yassop have a reason for never comeback, but we only will find out what is when they meet each other.

Sanji: I don’t see Sanji family bringing anything more for the history. Only his father in Vegapunk’s flashback that I hope we will receive one day.

Chooper: His parents are reindeers. That’s all I have to say

Franky: Franky parents left him to become pirates or I’m wrong? Maybe he can find them in NW but... Again, I don’t see this beginning from any help in history progression. So his lineage don’t matter to.

Robin: Her mother is a scholar like her and his dad most probably is one to, I think. But I think it will never be a topic in the history.

Brook: Man I’m really like to see Brook childhood, but I have the most absolutely assurance we will never see this.

Jimbe: He’s not a fully StrawHat Pirate yet I my opinion, he still needs a flashback focus on him.

 

[Grandmaster Woro]

Vinsmoke is not that relevant to be honest
Its just a family that was overthrown. The family only regained back its kingdom after judge led the family, but its just a kingdom with gimmick of science.

 

[kkck]

The vinsmokes are definitely relevant IMO. Their science gimmick provides them with one of the strongest armies in the world, there is a reason big mom wants it. Even judge made the point that the army is the backbone of the kingdom. Which is fairly impressive considering that he and his children are reasonably powerful. Add to that, at least kaido and big mom are actively seeking to strengthen their militias. Kaido through smiles and big mom via gigantification and clones... The vinsmokes are no yonko but with their army they are definitely big players in the world.

 

[McNuss]

The reason why I bet on the teacher is because of his name. The swordsmith who crafted the Wado Ichi Monji and Enma and left Wano 50 years ago was called Shimotsuki Kozaburo. Zaburo afaik means third son. Zoro's teacher is named Koshiro, Shiro meaning fourth son and he owned the Wado Ichimonji.

 

[M3J]

Luffy's lineage is the only one that seems to be problematic just because of Dragon. Nami and Brook's so far are unknown, and I don't think Vinsmokes are that much of an issue, otherwise they'd have made a move long ago. Franky, I dunno. Zoro, probably not. Robin's lineage isn't the issue, it's her nationality that is, since Oharans used to be scholars who could read the Poneglyphs, and she's probably the last or the last two left.

Oharans' demise reminds me of the Jedi's.

 

[afromarco005]

I'm intersted to see usopp ancesters the long nose tribe!

Also brooke and how he became a pirate.

We need to see Luffy's mom too she must be one hell of a woman!

However outside of luffy I dont see any of them being thay relevant.

 

[xocolatl]

Yep, been on my mind since Sanji's lineage.

Zoro would probably be explained/foreshadowed in this Wano arc. Too many semblance with Shimotsuki etc etc. I just want to know what is the origin of Ashura technique.

Nami was found in war-ridden land. No specific clues where exactly was this island. But something's bugging me is her unnatural perception towards the weather. What if she's a last descendant of some clans who have inherent ability to perceive the weather?

Sanji is case closed.

Usopp has Yasopp, of course. I don't think their side of family has huge back story but since Yasopp is a Yonkou's crew that's huge itself. Usopp once told the dwarf he's Montblanc Noland's descendant so, since Usopp is an honest man, this would be revealed more in the future.

Chopper is a reindeer. But nobody is interested WHY he has a blue nose? I'd be damned if it was proved to be significant. Chopper eating Hito Hito no Mi is also weird. Was the previous user died in Drum Kingdom?

Nico Robin is pretty much clear. The only room to improve her back story is her connection with Saul or... her father was actually some hotshot.

Cutty Flam or FRRRRANKKKYY was kicked from a pirate ship. Which pirate was that? Dunno, but I'd be willing to put my money that pirate was former Rocks member. There's also the question what's an abandoned high-tech ship sailing unmanned at the time Franky was hit by the sea train...

Brook said he was a guard from distant kingdom. He's old enough to know the Vinsmokes so reliving this side of his past along with why he quit the kingdom will be a pleasant thing to read. Oh, but he doesn't have eyes. Yohohoho!

Jimbe hasnt joined. I just simply wanted him to join, no holds barred, no leaving crew. If Oda would add of his personal dreams and/or his childhood I'd be honored. BUT HE MUST JOIN FIRST.

And of course there is Luffy... but let's not speculate him much...

 

[McNuss]

Nami has pretty interesting motives, practically the same as Luffy's.

If there is any character with a lineage story still coming into play at this stage, it has to be Nami.

 

[King Moe]

Honestly don't think Vinsmokes side is over as they be brought back not just current story, but for Vegapunk and origins of WG and 20 Kingdoms that made it which Sanji and the Vinsmokes are apart of that. I would be interested on seeing that especially Vegapunk with Judge and Caesar and maybe new character(s) within flashback how they are.

Luffy I would know more about his family like Dragon for one and maybe Garp. Though more so who is Luffy's grandmother and mother who fans longed to know who they are and be with and birthed 'Monsters' like this family.

Pretty sure Zoro have case like with WCI on his family history during his deepest lows. Though Idk recognizable his lineage be as maybe related to Ryuma or just Oda drawing similar back in day or trolling. Though there was a retainer of Yasu that look oddly familiar to Zoro, but can't say it was on purpose or just how Oda here and there draws.

 

[kkck]

Imo the vinsmokes are definitely not over. Presumably they survived the fight against big mon meaning that one of the worlds more powerful militias might be around the corner to pull shenanigans. In the big war which the series is building up to I'd assume they could be significant participants, even if not the main players.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Sanji, EoS, could be getting set up to be the next High Commander of the Vinsmokes. His brothers are more "machine" than human at this point and Reiju adores Sanji.

Luffy would have his Right hand as the WSS and his Left hand as the Commander of the world feared Germa 66.

Or the Germa 66 pledge themselves to the PK and Sanji is the one that bridges them.


It's not out of the realm of possibility

 

[Sachsenhesse]

If the Germa joins the Grand Fleet its under Reiju or no one else. Sanji still depises them and has his own dreams where they dont are involved.

 

[Pirate Queen]

If the Germa joins the Grand Fleet its under Reiju or no one else. Sanji still depises them and has his own dreams where they dont are involved.

Closure between Sanji and his family is still open.

Judge gaining a newfound respect for Sanji as he is about to die in the final war is a possibility.

To close off the possibility outright makes no sense.

 

[kkck]

Sanji, EoS, could be getting set up to be the next High Commander of the Vinsmokes. His brothers are more "machine" than human at this point and Reiju adores Sanji.

Luffy would have his Right hand as the WSS and his Left hand as the Commander of the world feared Germa 66.

Or the Germa 66 pledge themselves to the PK and Sanji is the one that bridges them.


It's not out of the realm of possibility

something like that had cross my mind before. But with the context being perhaps a tad different than what you describe (or perhaps not different but just more...). Judge originally aimed to join big mom's crew in order to utilize her influence and conquer the north blue.... And this plan backfired catastrophically. Though I don't fault judge for that bit at least, big mom never gave an adequate explanation as to why the vinsmokes could go fuck themselves rather than actually be part of her crew like literally any other crew that marries into it. Anyways, lo and behold they all escape big mom's clutches and IMMEDIATELY luffy gets declared the fifth yonko.... gonko I suppose (to avoid absurdity). And coincidentally their son is one of the strawhat's armada main "executives". So they still could get everything they wanted out of big mom from the strawhats.

On another note... I am a bit of the idea that judge will try to fix his defective kids. They are strong but ultimately lack a self preservation instinct and overall ability to give an iota of a fuck. Which in turn would give more prominence to reiju since she enjoys the full benefits of her mutations and has actual feelings.

 

[TitaniumOxide]

Some of the Strawhats may get a gaiden type story to explain their origins after the main story is over. I don't know if Oda has enough time or even space left in the story to cover their backstories. The way things are progressing right now it seems like some Strawhats' backstories may be left behind so to speak so they might be reveals in a gaiden type side story after the main story is over. I can see that for Nami, Franky, Brook, Jinbe, and Chopper. Zoro's story will likely be explained this arc and Usopp will finally get to punch Yasopp for being a shitty dad when Luffy finally reunite with Shanks...if that happens. Seriously, I think Luffy will see the Red Hairs and just launch himself on there blaring CoC and clash with Shanks the same way Roger swept Odin aside to clash with his old friend and rival, Whitebeard. And Usopp will snipe some green shit onto Yasopp to say fuck you for leaving me.

Chopper's lineage really gets to me since I love animals and nature so much. I actually have been giving this a thought more than once since he was introduced. Sure Chopper is a reindeer so his parents were probably reindeers too but! here is the kicker: reindeers are domesticated animals and santa's reindeers are all female. I'll explain why this is relevant.

First off, if the Germa can have its roots in power rangers and the nazi seis seis themes then Santa can be involved in inspirations for Chopper's history in One Piece. The reason why (and you guys can google this) all of Santa's reindeers are all female is because the males lose their antlers before Christmas...usually. Only the females keep them by the 24th (Christmas Eve). Therefore all of his reindeers are females since they all still have horns and that includes Rudolph. Which means Rudolph was a female. Now Rudolph is the only one with a glowing red nose which is definitely a cool mutation and any kids she may have can have some kind of nose mutation. Looks to me maybe Rudolph is one of Chopper's parents.

Now as I have mentioned Reindeers are domesticated herd animals. The males doesn't help rear the young, only the females do. The whole herd will however protect each other. And I bet you guys have all heard of Balto (actually screw Balto, it's all about Togo who ran like 999x the distance Balto did to deliver the meds)...well reindeers also helped deliver meds, albeit ina different part of the world. So there is the rudimentary connection to medicine for Chopper.

Yeah I guess I think about Chopper more than the regular person but I just want Oda to come out and say Rudolph is one of his parents lol. At any rate, Chopper will have intelligence far above what his parents will ever reach but this will probably never come up in the main storyline. Hope Chopper gets his own gaiden one day.

 

[McNuss]

Sanji, EoS, could be getting set up to be the next High Commander of the Vinsmokes. His brothers are more "machine" than human at this point and Reiju adores Sanji.

Luffy would have his Right hand as the WSS and his Left hand as the Commander of the world feared Germa 66.

Or the Germa 66 pledge themselves to the PK and Sanji is the one that bridges them.


It's not out of the realm of possibility

Germa 66 are nazi powerrangers and Sanji absolutely detests them, as well as their business, warfare.

These guys are evil. Even Reiju acknowledges herself to be. Granted she is the only one with any redeeming qualities.

Them becoming permanent Strawhat allies is thematically off. Nazis are bad people, things associated with Nazis don't get associated with heroes.

Only way this could work is if Judge dies (which technically could have already happened) and Reiju reforms the kingdom.

 

[kkck]

Germa 66 are nazi powerrangers and Sanji absolutely detests them, as well as their business, warfare.

These guys are evil. Even Reiju acknowledges herself to be. Granted she is the only one with any redeeming qualities.

Them becoming permanent Strawhat allies is thematically off. Nazis are bad people, things associated with Nazis don't get associated with heroes.

Only way this could work is if Judge dies (which technically could have already happened) and Reiju reforms the kingdom.

They are nazis but without a fair bit of what made nazi.... nazi. But yeah, they are pretty evil. I would make the point that in that regard they are not necessarily that much worst than some strawhat allies though. Bartolomeo ran a small time mafia before being a pirate and as far the manga skimmed over he was into some pretty hardcore stuff. Torture, crime.... Small scale but he was still a bastard. Add to that sai who has a pirate navi formerly lead by don chinjao. Even if we make the case that the vinsmokes are worst, due to the scale of their activities, the strawhats aren't exactly picky over who their allies are. That said, do note that I framed the bit about the vinsmokes working with the strawhats around the vinsmokes taking advantage rather than the strawhats considering full blown allies.

I don't really think there is that much to reform around the kingdom though. The "kingdom" is mostly a relatively mindless clone army who simply does as ordered. The only thing that matters when it comes to reform is the head.