Not buying much on Sanji facing Burgess at all especially reason as Burgess should be more Zoro given they are first mates to respective captains and there is theory of him getting an DF to power him up even more which many theorizing being Diamond Fruit if so then Zoro will face him to test more his abilities, but the again Sanji being able to break Diamonds with his body also impressive, but as well beating Shiryu given they many similar traits they have with one another.
I thought these past months you have been set on debunking the "Zoro always fights the first mate or second strongest".
Jesus is indeed BB's fighter, but he has never been hinted as a first mate and he certainly doesn't seem to have the personality of one. Shiryu isn't confirmed to be the first mate but he does have a more appropriate personality, on top of being a fighter and a swordsman.
Luffy vs Blackbeard: Aside from their positions as Captains, there is a personal grudge between the two with Teach being the initial trigger for Ace's death. They're also polar opposites in terms of taste and character. And while Luffy seems to be on Roger's path, Teach is on Xebec's.
Zoro vs Shiryu: Swordsman vs swordsman. However, like Luffy and Blackbeard, the two appear to be opposites. Zoro is all about honor and the bushido code, but Shiryu isn't. As soon as he got out of jail, he killed the guards who released after stating he'll comply and has the Suke Suke no Mi and uses sneak attacks. He has no honor as a swordsperson.
Sanji vs Vasco Shot: Potentially chef vs chef. My only argument for this is that Vasco's vivre card lists his favorite food as a wine that's mainly used for cooking. Plus I imagine he'll use drunken martial arts. His vivre card lists him as particularly dangerous and I think his drunkenness plays a role.
Jinbe vs Burgess: Helmsman vs Helmsman. Two grappling style martial artists going to town. Jiu Jitsu vs Wrestling.
Usopp vs Auger: Marksman vs marksman. No additional input here I can really add.
Nami vs Lafitte: Navigator vs navigator. Same as above.
Chopper vs Doc Q: Doctor vs doctor. Same as above, with the added note that Doc Q willingly puts people in danger and harms them randomly, while Chopper, you know, helps out whomever is need.
Franky and Sunny vs San Juan Wolf: Mainly going by Wolf's ephitet. He's the "Colossal Battleship", so, like OP stated, I see Franky making the Sunny a mech and fighting him.
The last two, I have no real idea. Robin, Brook, Caterina, and Avalo are the odd people out.
They smoke, they looks or look like their from an evil organization (Stealth Black and Shiryu's clothing), they are perverse (Oda confirmed in SBS that Shiryu will peak on ladies now that he has invisibility fruit), they both join as 4th-5th (If not counting their captains or not) person to their respective crews and became main forces strong in being like left-hand mans to their respective captains, their are smart and strong characters, and so on. They have a lot of similarities to them and feel like Oda is not just doing this on coincidental means especially he have to think about battles when SH and BB face off and thinking about two guys who can turn invisible on both sides.
It's hard not to say they won't ever fight as not always Sanji who takes on a fighter as he has taken on those with weapons before. Oda likes to be unpredictable at times now.
Really? Wasn't stated it was in charged of the 1st Ship of the BB Pirates? If so then that push he is First Mate if given the position over everyone else?
I thought these past months you have been set on debunking the "Zoro always fights the first mate or second strongest".
Jesus is indeed BB's fighter, but he has never been hinted as a first mate and he certainly doesn't seem to have the personality of one. Shiryu isn't confirmed to be the first mate but he does have a more appropriate personality, on top of being a fighter and a swordsman.
Shiryu was 5th to join the crew, he was never first mate to begin with and can't get that if he never met BB first off. From what been stated, Burgess is in charge of 1st ship of BB pirates while Shiryu is in charge of 2nd Ship of the BB pirates, so position push that Shiryu isn't really first mate, so Idk what you mean.
Zoro never face second strongest each time though. There been certain arcs he face someone else being third strongest or one of the strongest with main forces of the leader. So not farfetched for it to face someone else again like that, but even so Burgess is someone who he facing as first mate just like him, so possible of that to happen or not. We have to see, but just saying if theory of him getting Diamond Fruit are true, then push factor more.
Luffy vs Blackbeard: Aside from their positions as Captains, there is a personal grudge between the two with Teach being the initial trigger for Ace's death. They're also polar opposites in terms of taste and character. And while Luffy seems to be on Roger's path, Teach is on Xebec's.
Zoro vs Shiryu: Swordsman vs swordsman. However, like Luffy and Blackbeard, the two appear to be opposites. Zoro is all about honor and the bushido code, but Shiryu isn't. As soon as he got out of jail, he killed the guards who released after stating he'll comply and has the Suke Suke no Mi and uses sneak attacks. He has no honor as a swordsperson.
Sanji vs Vasco Shot: Potentially chef vs chef. My only argument for this is that Vasco's vivre card lists his favorite food as a wine that's mainly used for cooking. Plus I imagine he'll use drunken martial arts. His vivre card lists him as particularly dangerous and I think his drunkenness plays a role.
Jinbe vs Burgess: Helmsman vs Helmsman. Two grappling style martial artists going to town. Jiu Jitsu vs Wrestling.
Usopp vs Auger: Marksman vs marksman. No additional input here I can really add.
Nami vs Lafitte: Navigator vs navigator. Same as above.
Chopper vs Doc Q: Doctor vs doctor. Same as above, with the added note that Doc Q willingly puts people in danger and harms them randomly, while Chopper, you know, helps out whomever is need.
Franky and Sunny vs San Juan Wolf: Mainly going by Wolf's ephitet. He's the "Colossal Battleship", so, like OP stated, I see Franky making the Sunny a mech and fighting him.
The last two, I have no real idea. Robin, Brook, Caterina, and Avalo are the odd people out.
I can see on that, but issue is are the positionings though as BB Pirates are ranks by on the ships they lead, so Idk if Jimbei will fight someone of 1st Ship being Burgess and still not 100% on possibility Shiryu is made for Zoro as similarities for him with Sanji works out and Burgess vs Zoro given the first mates status and possible theory for it.
I have to see for the others on the Ship Commander positions to see what they become too. Though I get what you mean on roles on the ship on why they facing each other, but Idk if some of members have roles given for certain reasons.
Really? Wasn't stated it was in charged of the 1st Ship of the BB Pirates? If so then that push he is First Mate if given the position over everyone else?
He is, but it's never been stated that he's First Mate or second in command or that their ships represent the chain of command. According to the vivre card, Lafitte is the Chief of Staff, so he seems to be the actual second in command and he's in charge of the 5th ship. That being said, the same vivre card revealed that Jesus was the first to join Teach's crew.
I can see on that, but issue is are the positionings though as BB Pirates are ranks by on the ships they lead, so Idk if Jimbei will fight someone of 1st Ship being Burgess and still not 100% on possibility Shiryu is made for Zoro as similarities for him with Sanji works out and Burgess vs Zoro given the first mates status and possible theory for it.
I have to see for the others on the Ship Commander positions to see what they become too. Though I get what you mean on roles on the ship on why they facing each other, but Idk if some of members have roles given for certain reasons.
As I mentioned above, there's nothing saying that their assigned ship represents their standing in the crew.
Here's the list...
Jesus is 1st Ship
Shiryu is 2nd Ship
Auger is 3rd Ship
Avalo is 4th Ship
Laffite is 5th Ship
Caterina is 6th Ship
Wolf is 7th Ship
Vasco is 8th Ship
Doc Q is 9th Ship
10th is, of course, currently unknown
There's no second in command among the Blackbeard Pirates.
"Chief of staff" sounds like a diplomatic position. That seems fitting, since Lafitte was the one to propose Blackbeard for the Shichibukai in Mary Geoise.
If there was a First Mate, it should be the second strongest in the crew, as usual. And that's Shilliew, because of course it is. He was said to be equal to fucking Magellan, who almost killed the entire crew.
I'm still confused about the true definition of "first-mate" in One Piece. Is it:
a) The first one to join after the captain? Then why do people say that Marco is Whitebeard's first-mate despite Oden's flashback showing that Marco was still a newbie in Whitebeard's ship not unlike Shanks/Buggy or Roger's?
b) The second strongest in the ship after the captain? Is Alvida/Galdino the first-mate on Buggy's ship now?
c) The closest one to the captain? Then why isn't Usopp the first-mate?
In One Piece, command is determined by strength. As Zoro commented in Fishman Island, Luffy had to stay in shape to remain the captain.
Marco was not the second in command, since all of the Whitebeard commanders had equal authority. However, he had everyone's respect, and he was naturally selected as the new captain after Whitebeard's death.
There's no second in command among the Blackbeard Pirates.
"Chief of staff" sounds like a diplomatic position. That seems fitting, since Lafitte was the one to propose Blackbeard for the Shichibukai in Mary Geoise.
If there was a First Mate, it should be the second strongest in the crew, as usual. And that's Shilliew, because of course it is. He was said to be equal to fucking Magellan, who almost killed the entire crew.
Can't be Shillew since he joined as 4th/5th person to BB's crew while it's stated Burgess was his first one to join him, so Burgess is the true first mate. I think what you asking is who is 'vice-captain' in leading when captain which depends, but don't think Shiryu as doesn't look like he was shown to have leadership over the others much or at least they only follow BB as who they choose to joined under soley.
He is, but it's never been stated that he's First Mate or second in command or that their ships represent the chain of command. According to the vivre card, Lafitte is the Chief of Staff, so he seems to be the actual second in command and he's in charge of the 5th ship. That being said, the same vivre card revealed that Jesus was the first to join Teach's crew.
As I mentioned above, there's nothing saying that their assigned ship represents their standing in the crew.
Here's the list...
Jesus is 1st Ship
Shiryu is 2nd Ship
Auger is 3rd Ship
Avalo is 4th Ship
Laffite is 5th Ship
Caterina is 6th Ship
Wolf is 7th Ship
Vasco is 8th Ship
Doc Q is 9th Ship
10th is, of course, currently unknown
Ah I see, thanks for explaining to me and I see now. Well with information now, still doesn't change my perspective and possible matchups as feel more like it will happen especially we shouldn't doubt Burgess being same as he was prior and will be upgraded next time we see him again as I am sure special DF will come to him later to make him stronger.
Can't be Shillew since he joined as 4th/5th person to BB's crew while it's stated Burgess was his first one to join him, so Burgess is the true first mate. I think what you asking is who is 'vice-captain' in leading when captain which depends, but don't think Shiryu as doesn't look like he was shown to have leadership over the others much or at least they only follow BB as who they choose to joined under soley.
In One Piece, command is determined by strength. As Zoro commented in Fishman Island, Luffy had to stay in shape to remain the captain.
Marco was not the second in command, since all of the Whitebeard commanders had equal authority. However, he had everyone's respect, and he was naturally selected as the new captain after Whitebeard's death.
The G5 Marines are at the bottom of their organizations hierarchy and Smoker's comment implies that he, the Vice Admiral, knows.
If there is a raid, performed by the 10 Titanic Captains, than you don't need to know the composition of this group to know about its existence.
Also, half of Blackbeard's Commanders are people he specifically recruited for that purpose with a deathmatch in Impel Down, so not exactly trustworthy individuals either.
The power of Kuzan demands a position. This is someone who is as strong as Blackbeard himself. It's not like the Supernova or Jimbe who couldn't really say anything when they had to join a Yonko. This is someone Blackbeard has to handle with delicate care or else it has the potential to be dangerous for him.
Jesus Burgess was introduced as "of the 10 Titanic Captains" which means the public is aware that are those 10 captains, but I can agree that they may not know just WHO the 10th captain is.
I'm on my phone right now so I can't check but when Burgess and Blackbeard were talking about Kuzan, was he referred to as an associate or something? What was the exact term?
There's no second in command among the Blackbeard Pirates.
"Chief of staff" sounds like a diplomatic position. That seems fitting, since Lafitte was the one to propose Blackbeard for the Shichibukai in Mary Geoise.
If there was a First Mate, it should be the second strongest in the crew, as usual. And that's Shilliew, because of course it is. He was said to be equal to fucking Magellan, who almost killed the entire crew.
There isn't one that we are currently aware of. I'm not entirely sure about that. We've another example of Chief of Staff in Sabo, who was stated to be Second in Command of the Revolutionary Army. Now, it's likely that their command structure isn't the same, but we do have a standard for it, so it's still a possibility.
I'm certain that Shiryu will be the 2nd Strongest (at least, depending on Aokiji's involvement), but I'm open to him not being 2nd in command.
I'm on my phone right now so I can't check but when Burgess and Blackbeard were talking about Kuzan, was he referred to as an associate or something? What was the exact term?
I don't think any term was used. Before Luffy came in, they were talking about trust and Jesus didn't trust Aokiji. Shiryu was also brought up.
Before that, we had Smoker imply that he heard some bad things after Aokiji saved him and then later we have the Gorosei straight out say he was associated with the crew. I think that's all we got so far.
I'm on my phone right now so I can't check but when Burgess and Blackbeard were talking about Kuzan, was he referred to as an associate or something? What was the exact term?
Talking about OP's logic, not real life logic. I like how you like to use realistic in a series of super human characters who can lift more than anyone in our own world to use realism to make sense of it while OP does things differently .
Whereas we know First Mates are the strongest in the crew, it can't be proven and therefore incorrect to conclude they are the first to join the crew( the only known one is Rayleigh). Case and point is that Yasopp was the first member shown to join Shanks' crew, yet Ben Beckman is the first mate. You're welcome to prove me otherwise.
None of that even matters with regards to this discussion.
Talking about OP's logic, not real life logic. I like how you like to use realistic in a series of super human characters who can lift more than anyone in our own world to use realism to make sense of it while OP does things differently .
That is not about realism, it's about what a word means. A captain is a captain. A first mate is a first mate. Nothing wrong with having mistaken the meaning of the term "first mate", I only intended to make you more knowledgeable.
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