Discussion Strongest Guild outside FT?

[Holt]

I was wondering, Fairy tail (prior to disbanding) was clearly the strongest guild but which guild is next in the FT world?
Personally I think its between Crime Sorcière and Sabertooth. Perhaps lamia scale could be in the mix thanks to Jura. Prior to the GMG, sabertooth was top and lamia scale was second but that's probably because Crime Sorcière isn't legal.

So which is the strongest guild excluding FT?
Crime Sorcière, Sabertooth or Lamia Scale. Using the status and members right before the timeskip (so CS has oracion seis members, Demon minerva in Sabertooth, but lamia doesn't have wendy etc).

I'd lean towards Crime Sorcière. Jellal defeated Oracion seis alone and also seemed to be able to defeat jura. That's almost half of Sabertooth's fighting power that he can handle solo.
Thoughts?

 

[kkck]

Well, FT was the strongest guild by quite a bit as far as we saw. It got two teams with the potential to win the games into the tournament and even then we have to consider they did not have gildarts with them and mistgun was no longer a thing. The best plausible team FT could send would obliterate any team the other guilds could send. Hell, I don't think the best plausible team from all the other guilds combined could beat the best team FT alone could send (gildarts, laxus, erza, mira, natsu/gajeel/grey/...).

Anyways, I would think the second strongest guild is lamia simply because of jura. We saw him fight orga and as powerful as orga was he didn't last a second. Well, it is true that without jura lamia is somewhat lacking and sabertooth would be superior. They have leon and shelia who seem more than capable but still, thats it. I wouldn't think too much of pegasus considering grey beat half their guild alone. Without ichiya they are hardly anything.

I am not sure if crime sorcerie counts considering they are a dark guild. And they have skilled members although oracion 6 just might be a tad lacking. Well, most of their members were taken out either by erza, multiple mages or technicalities so perhaps their strength can remain relevant nowadays. Gerard is a gildarts class mage and he seemingly had trouble beating the 6 of them. Of course, having someone like gerard does seem to give them an edge if we consider them. I guess it depends on the extent to which sting and rogue have grown stronger though. Sting seemingly did what natsu had trouble doing even with lightning flame against genma so perhaps sabertooth would be the stronger one in this regard even with gerard in the mix.

 

[Infinity Edge]

If you count in the dark guilds then it has to be Crime Sorcière, pretty obviously. If not then it's Sabertooth
btw I'm pretty sure Minerva is no longer Demon right now and she is back to her old methods (which were better)

However, hypothethically we can say that Crime has only 7 members, while Sabertooth has as many members as Fairy Tail or Phantom Lord did back in the day.
so collectively I think Saber could take a bite at Crime.

 

[Holt]

Yeah Crime Sorcière is included as well. Numbers don't really matter though. If FT gathered their elite 7 (Makarov, Gildarts, Laxus, Erza, Mirajane, Natsu, Gray or gajeel), they'll suffice to defeat any of those guilds.

Jellal is pretty powerful. He was a former wizard saint and during the GMG, it was alluded that he can defeat Jura, problem being his cover would have been blown. CS lost a powerful mage in Ultear but they got midnight and others in return. Sabertooth will put up a tough fight but I thing CS is the strongest.

 

[Freid]

I would have said Crime Sorciere had Ultear still been alive

But since she's not, I think it's gotta be Lamia Scale.

 

[Holt]

Can lamia scale really defeat sabertooth? Before the GMG, lamia scale was the number 1 guild after all. Sting, rogue, orga and Minerva should be able to defeat jura. yukino and rufus can handle Lyon and the others.

 

[Freid]

Thing is Jura's already trashed Orga with minimal effort and can probably do the same to each individual member of Sabretooth. The individual gaps in power are too big for a combined effort to make much of a difference.

 

[Holt]

But if they gang up on him? To be fair jura evaded orga's attack and orga was kinda keeping up with laxus before jura came. With 4 of them attacking him, its easier to get hits in. Sting and rogue both use Dragon force and minerva's territory magic enables teleportation to suit their attacks. I think they could win.

 

[Freid]

I don't think Jura doged Orga's attack. Seemed to me like he went through it to knock him out and he wasn't even using any special attacks. Honestly against the fifth ranked member of the Ten Wizard Saints, four weaklings together won't pose much of a threat.

 

[kkck]

Thing is Jura's already trashed Orga with minimal effort and can probably do the same to each individual member of Sabretooth. The individual gaps in power are too big for a combined effort to make much of a difference.

I doubt that is necessarily true. It took the strongest move we have seen from gerard for him to barely beat the oracion 6.... Sting and rogue pulled a victory against demon enma even though he was supposed to far exceed the demons of the kyukimon. The manga actually did give us a good idea of the difference in power between people.

http://www.mangastream.to/fairy-tail-chapter-286-page-17.html
http://www.mangastream.to/fairy-tail-chapter-286-page-19.html

As far as we can tell that is probably pretty close to their full power. So orga has about half the magical power as jura which kinda makes sense with how the battle went earlier. I wouldn't be surprised if multiple members of sabertooth were able to handle jura. If consider the gerard situation it could really go either way. Even if is as a team, only lyon and shelia are worth something in the guild. In turn sabertooth seems to have a number of people who could go up against them.

 

[Holt]

Exactly. Orga + DF Sting/Rogue and Minerva are pretty powerful. Its not really far fetched to think they could win against jura. Considering Jura already was known as the 5th wizard saint and Sabertooth was still considered tops, I think that indicates they were still superior.
I'd say its CS first, Jellal seems superior to jura or on par and the other members are actually powerful. Then sabertooth next and Lamia scale.

 

[Freid]

Sabertooth were only considered the strongest guild because Jura and Leon never participated in the previous games.

I doubt that is necessarily true. It took the strongest move we have seen from gerard for him to barely beat the oracion 6.

The Oraion 6 are probably more powerful than Sabertooth, so if even they can still lose against someone who's supposed to be of similar strength to Jura, then I see little hope of Sabertooth pulling off a victory here.

 

[kkck]

Sabertooth were only considered the strongest guild because Jura and Leon never participated in the previous games.


The Oraion 6 are probably more powerful than Sabertooth, so if even they can still lose against someone who's supposed to be of similar strength to Jura, then I see little hope of Sabertooth pulling off a victory here.

Sabertooth has minerva, orga, rogue, sting, yukino and rufus... As far as the oracion 6 we saw in the manga (cobra, racer, hoteye, angel, racer, midnight) I don't see them being more powerful... Sting became significantly more powerful than he was against natsu and as far as we have seen rogue somehow caught up. Minerva was defeated by erza using second origin, a significant upgrade over what she needed to beat midnight. I am not entirely sure of how angel fights now, it seems like anime events are cannon but I don't watch the anime. Rufus did a pretty good job against second origin grey so his skills are definitely good enough to take on an oracion 6.

 

[Freid]

I dunno. None of the Oracion 6 were one shotted by a simple palm to face like Orga, and zero did seem to do a number on Gerard. Also Kagura is probably stronger than Minerva and Erza beat her without second origin. She only had to release it against Minerva because she was too tired and injured after fighting Kagura in her base form. So I'd still say Midnight is stronger than every member of Sabertooth including Minerva.

 

[Impossibility]

Crime Sorciere seems like the obvious option, it shouldn't even be that close. However, if we're considering registered guilds, Sabertooth likely deserves the spot. Lamia would follow.

 

[DemonKing888]

I would have to say Sabertooth is a stronger guild then Lamia Scale, just because the only thing Lamia Scale has is Jura, not saying Lyon is weak or anything but I believe Sting, Rogue, and Minerva are stronger then him. But even if that wasn't the case if we put both guilds on a 5 vs 5 match-up

Sabertooth would have....

• Sting
• Rouge
• Minerva
• Rufus
• Orga

Lamia has....

• Jura
• Lyon
• Chelia
• Yuka
• Toby

Toby would be taken out like a little ***** in a matter of seconds, followed by Yuka who's also hasn't shown any great powers either.

This leaves Lamia at a great disadvantage because the match up would turn into a 5 vs 3 real easy because of their weakest links. Chelia would be the must important factor in this match-up because if she went down that would mean Jura would have a possible 4 on 1 fight which I don't think he could win.

But hey if we're taking about right now in the manga then Lamia Scale loses regardless because their only tank is no longer part of their guild.

 

[Holt]

I believe jura is still part of the lamia scale, just that he's away for now.
Also while I agree that sabertooth is stronger than LS, the one on one thing doesn't really work. If jura was powerful enough, then it wouldn't matter if only he had to take on sabertooth (just like laxus defeated raven tail himself or jellal defeating oracion seis). That said, I don't think jura could do that and it would most likely be better if they gang up on him. Going one on one, he could probably defeat them. To win would involve knocking out the other guild even if only one member of the winning guild remains. Sort of like back in the GMG when Sting was in a position to finish off erza, gray, laxus, gajeel and juvia even though it was 5 on 1.

 

[SirSamuel016]

For me, I'd have to say Sabertooth, because mainly the fight between Sting, Rogue and Jiemma in the Tartaros arc. To me, it seemed like Jiemma wasn't firing on all cylinders, and yet Sting and Rogue, after having taken a beating from Mard Geer Tartaros, managed to beat him. We haven't seen close to Jiemma's full strength, so that could very well rival Jellal's strength if Jiemma ever got serious enough. So with that in mind, Sting + Rogue vs Jellal could end in a win to Sting and Rogue, argurably Sabertooth's strongest members. And then there is Minerva who could take on Meredy and win. Of course, there is then the issue of Oracion Seis being in Crime Sorciere as well (minus Brain), so it would be interesting to see how they go. Yukino would fight Sorano/Angel to a standstill because they are sisters, Orga could fight Hoteye, and Rufus, well with hid Memory-Making Magic, he could negate Racer's magic and Midnight's nightmare would have no effect on him, meaning Rufus would be good to take on those two. Cobra could also be left to Sting and Rogue, so to me there is enough potential to possibly beat Crime Sorciere.

 

[Dranzer]

I personally think Crime Sorciere is the strongest-
-Jellal a former Wizard Saint prior to the time skip
-1 of the 7 Kin of Purgatory, (excluding Ultear)
-The full Oracion Seis, (excluding Brain/Zero)
I think when it comes to anyone that could stand up to them, it would be Sabertooth and Lamia Scale. More towards Lamia Scale.
Lamia Scale-
-Jura (5th Wizard Saint)
-The rest of team Lamia Scale
Jura himself prior to the first time skip could fight most of Oracion Seis so whats to say he can't now. But the main thing is that Jellal and Meldy are there changing the odds drastically. Lyon could barely fight Racer while teaming up with Gray, so he wouldn't make a big difference, even with the time skip assuming they both Racer and Lyon improved. The rest of Lamia Scale aren't very special/ powerful.
Sabertooth-
-Team Sabertooth
The twin dragons of Sabertooth couldn't defeat Natsu, Natsu in my opinion barely defeated Cobra, so they are kind of taken out. Rufus however I think could be an asset to Sabertooth, seeing as he can memorize magic and use it against an opponent. Orga not that much help. Yukino is on par with Lucy and Lucy has never excelled in power. Neo Minerva is a game changer though. She was always powerful, post demonification we can only assume she became even more powerful!

Altogether I do think that Crime Sorciere is the stongest guild aside from Fairy Tail, they have one of the dark guilds once part of the Balam Alliance, a former Wizard Saint and one of the members of the former strongest dark guild, Grimoire Heart.

 

[Holt]

Lyon could barely fight Racer while teaming up with Gray, so he wouldn't make a big difference, even with the time skip assuming they both Racer and Lyon improved. The rest of Lamia Scale aren't very special/ powerful.
Sabertooth-
-Team Sabertooth
The twin dragons of Sabertooth couldn't defeat Natsu, Natsu in my opinion barely defeated Cobra, so they are kind of taken out. Rufus however I think could be an asset to Sabertooth, seeing as he can memorize magic and use it against an opponent. Orga not that much help. Yukino is on par with Lucy and Lucy has never excelled in power. Neo Minerva is a game changer though. She was always powerful, post demonification we can only assume she became even more powerful!

Well you are comparing Natsu at various times and strength as though he remained the same.
When Natsu beat cobra, that was before tenrou (he got stronger still). After the 7 year timeskip, a stronger version of Natsu (that beat cobra) needed lightning flame mode to win over Max.
Natsu also needed Second origin upgrade or he would have gotten really embarrassed at the GMG. Basically, by the time sabertooth was introduced, FT had gotten a significant power boost as compared to when they fought oracion seis.

I do agree that oracion seis is indeed the strongest here (mostly thanks to Jellal and their competent fighters on a whole) but Sabertooth is superior to Lamia imo. Aside Jura, Sabertooth can dispatch the rest without much trouble. With the magic counter, Orga is about half as strong as jura. With him, Dragon force Sting/Rogue and Minerva, they can likely defeat Jura.