Team Team August vs Team Irene

[Nie Li]

No.....sorry man. It's not valid. Not even the same author lmao

Come on, the point was about semantics, I can think of two examples in One Piece but none in FT right now. My preferences are showing.

You've been on this site for this long and you don't know that? I expect better from my favourite mod

Now you're sweet talking your way out of this.

and it's effective

 

[Ramen]

ome on, the point was about semantics, I can think of two examples in One Piece but none in FT right now. My preferences are showing.

Such bias for OP. 100YQ > Wano

Now you're sweet talking your way out of this.

and it's effective

Plus, I never take these things seriously anymore.

I just watch @Jko and @Seven777 debate. They're much better than me at this stuff.

 

[Hexbend]

Team August both rounds with August obviously being MVP

 

[Static]

I can just call headcanon since were both using it. Next.

I mean, by this logic you can say Dimaria can age seal Acnologia or Brandish can shrink him into the size of an ant since he was never shown being immune to those.

 

[Jko]

He can't use Irene's magic bcs she channels it through her staff or the ground itself. Channeling their magic through external source is all that is needed to bypass August's copy magic as shown with Gildarts.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 11, 2020, Original Post Date: Oct 11, 2020 ---

So Team Irene wins. Mice GG.

 

[Static]

He can't use Irene's magic bcs she channels it through her staff or the ground itself. Channeling their magic through external source is all that is needed to bypass August's copy magic as shown with Gildarts.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 11, 2020, Original Post Date: Oct 11, 2020 ---

So Team Irene wins. Mice GG.

Even if that is the case, he still has the abilities of 10 other Spriggans.

 

[Jko]

Even if that is the case, he still has the abilities of 10 other Spriggans.

That's speculation and would it matter if he had all S12s magic? Irene's enchantment are shown to be more versatile than all the 10 Spriggans magics combined lol. Also he wouldn't have God Serena's DS magic since he has never shown the ability to copy DS magic. First gen needs an enchantment and second gen needs a lacrima which are both external factors that August can't copy. It's the same reason he can't copy celestial magic or Cana's cards as both are necessary to produce said magic. If he could have copied DS magic he would have, but he didn't as he was never noted to be a DS.

 

[Nie Li]

That's speculation and would it matter if he had all S12s magic? Irene's enchantment are shown to be more versatile than all the 10 Spriggans magics combined lol. Also he wouldn't have God Serena's DS magic since he has never shown the ability to copy DS magic. First gen needs an enchantment and second gen needs a lacrima which are both external factors that August can't copy. It's the same reason he can't copy celestial magic or Cana's cards as both are necessary to produce said magic. If he could have copied DS magic he would have, but he didn't as he was never noted to be a DS.

August used Melt, which is one of Natsu's Fire Dragon Slayer techniques.

August can copy enchantments and slayer techniques without problem. He couldn't copy Cana's cards because he doesn't have cards of his own to enchant, but not because he can't use the magic itself.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 11, 2020, Original Post Date: Oct 11, 2020 ---

Also dragon slayer magic is a caster-type magic so there shouldn't be a debate on whether August can copy it or not.

There shouldn't really be one on copying enchantments (as in, the skill to enchant something) either, since they're still just direct spells, but absolutely not on DSM.

 

[Jko]

August used Melt, which is one of Natsu's Fire Dragon Slayer techniques.

August can copy enchantments and slayer techniques without problem. He couldn't copy Cana's cards because he doesn't have cards of his own to enchant, but not because he can't use the magic itself.

Melt is not one of Natsu's spells as Natsu has never used melt and Natsu didn't use a spell for August to copy in the first place. He can't copy people's magic by just looking at them otherwise he would already know their magic before they used them which was not the case.

He can't copy either. Both came from external factors. He can't copy's Cana's card magic even if he had her cards. If the magic is channelled through an external source then it bypases his copy magic. It is the reason, despite having already copied crash magic, he was hurt by Gildarts' crash magic.

DS magic is not simply an ordinary caster magic. Otherwise anyone can learn DS magic which is not the case. You need to be enchanted or have a lacrima in order to use DS magic. Either that or eat an actual dragon. DS is not something that can be learned in a book like the other Slayer magics.

 

[Kurumi Tokisaki]

DS is not something that can be learned in a book like the other Slayer magics.

Of course, you can. Did you forget about Elfseria? He is self-taught.

 

[Seven777]

Melt is not one of Natsu's spells as Natsu has never used melt and Natsu didn't use a spell for August to copy in the first place. He can't copy people's magic by just looking at them otherwise he would already know their magic before they used them which was not the case.

He can't copy either. Both came from external factors. He can't copy's Cana's card magic even if he had her cards. If the magic is channelled through an external source then it bypases his copy magic. It is the reason, despite having already copied crash magic, he was hurt by Gildarts' crash magic.

DS magic is not simply an ordinary caster magic. Otherwise anyone can learn DS magic which is not the case. You need to be enchanted or have a lacrima in order to use DS magic. Either that or eat an actual dragon. DS is not something that can be learned in a book like the other Slayer magics.

Gildarts has never flown around as a bunch of cubes either, doesn't change the fact that he copied crash.

If August can do it to Fairy Glitter, which came from Mavis, he can do it to DS magic, as shown in Gildarts flashback

 

[Jko]

Of course, you can. Did you forget about Elfseria? He is self-taught.

We know nothing of Elfseria so that point is moot.

Gildarts has never flown around as a bunch of cubes either, doesn't change the fact that he copied crash.

If August can do it to Fairy Glitter, which came from Mavis, he can do it to DS magic, as shown in Gildarts flashback

What does that have to do with anything I said? He got hurt by the magic he copied as soon as it was channeled through an external source.

Cana learned to use FG on her own. FG is also a spell that can be learned while DS is not.

 

[Kurumi Tokisaki]

We know nothing of Elfseria so that point is moot.

Lol, how is that moot when the Guy himself said he self learn DS? Might well as say the same thing about DE since we don't know anything about them. Saying he is not self-learned when the manga hasn't proven otherwise is nothing but your headcanon. I suggest you prove otherwise without bringing the headcanon into the manga.

 

[Jko]

Lol, how is that moot when the Guy himself said he self learn DS? Might well as say the same thing about DE since we don't know anything about them. Saying he is not self-learned when the manga hasn't proven otherwise is nothing but your headcanon. I suggest you prove otherwise without bringing the headcanon into the manga.

Bcs he was never shown to do so. Do you believe everything someone says at face value (Sting must've been stronger than Acno and killed Weisslogia in your eyes )? We don't even know what generation slayer he is so yes that point is utterly moot. Like I said if DS could be taught then there would be a lot more Dragon Slayers lol. Trying to use one guy who we have zero info as your exception to the rule is not going to cut it. He could have a lacrima or ate Dragon for all we know and that will still fall under "self taught".

 

[Nie Li]

So are we to believe that slayers are just "enchanted beings" rather than casters? That'd mean none of their strength is actually theirs unless they're the ones "enchanthing themselves" (and that would mean August should be able to enchant himself as well anyway).

It's a magic that can be learned, but the ways to learn it are considered "ancient and forgotten" just like Ultear's magic, which makes it rare and is supposed to be the reason why all DS that don't come from the past aren't first generations. However, that should not be a problem for August, who can just copy any magic spell.

Holder magic is an exception simply because it's magic that cannot be performed without the proper tool to cast it, but there's no tool in casting an enchantment or in going slayer.

 

[Kurumi Tokisaki]

We don't even know what generation slayer he is so yes that point is utterly moot. Like I said if DS could be taught then there would be a lot more Dragon Slayers lol.

This point is utterly moot. God Slayer magic can be self-taught but there is only 3 in the entire series that's even less than Dragon Slayers.

Bcs he was never shown to do so. Do you believe everything someone says at face value (Sting must've been stronger than Acno and killed Weisslogia in your eyes )?

Ya nice logic. If Killing one dragon is same being stronger than Acnologia. Might well as say all Dragon Slayers from 400 years are stronger than Acnologia. Sting. Until Mashima changes elf Seria being First or Fifth gen like you claim. I'll go with what was said the manga until Mashima changes it like he did with Sting and Rogue case. I'll take Elfseria word over yours which holds more water.

He could have a lacrima or ate Dragon for all we know and that will still fall under "self taught".

He can't be a second-gen nice try there. If he was he wouldn't have turned into a Dragon. If Second can turn into a dragon by overusing their magic Laxus would be a Dragon by now. Unless proven otherwise this is nothing but your headcanon.

And that Melt attack was shown in the background when Gildarts was explaining his logic behind August copy magic. This more than proves that he can copy DS magic.

 

[Jko]

This point is utterly moot. God Slayer magic can be self-taught but there is only 3 in the entire series that's even less than Dragon Slayers.



Ya nice logic. If Killing one dragon is same being stronger than Acnologia. Might well as say all Dragon Slayers from 400 years are stronger than Acnologia. Sting. Until Mashima changes elf Seria being First or Fifth gen like you claim. I'll go with what was said the manga until Mashima changes it like he did with Sting and Rogue case. I'll take Elfseria word over yours which holds more water.



He can't be a second-gen nice try there. If he was he wouldn't have turned into a Dragon. If Second can turn into a dragon by overusing their magic Laxus would be a Dragon by now. Unless proven otherwise this is nothing but your headcanon.

And that Melt attack was shown in the background when Gildarts was explaining his logic behind August copy magic. This more than proves that he can copy DS magic.

We know how God Slayer magic is taught and we know how DS magic is taught. So again where are all these self taught Dragon Slayers at? They would be an entirely different generation from 1st-5th if it was actually self taught (unlike GS which has zero generational differences). Maybe wait until we even know his Gen before we start saying he just up and taught himself a magic no one has just taught themselves before. Man, learning DS magic out the ass would have been useful in the Dragon war lol.

What are you talking about? We have to take that knowledge at face value by your logic lol. We don't use previously established rules and narrative to dictate logical conclusions. We just take statements at face value and believe everything someone says. Elsefaire words hold no water bcs you have zero idea of what his self taught method was.

Don't know if second gens can transform or not. Nothing in the manga was stated they can't transform. Maybe there's a trick, who knows. He also can again be a 5th gen. You don't know his methods yet you are trying to use his as some golden goose to say August can copy DS magic. August can't otherwise he would have as the Empire's goal was to fight against a dragon lmao.

Melt wasn't a DS spell. Literally not one DS has ever used the spell melt lol. And again August can't copy a magic that he has never seen before in the first place so it wasn't Natsu's magic.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 11, 2020, Original Post Date: Oct 11, 2020 ---

It can't simply be learned. "We got our powers from Dragons."- Natsu Dragneel.

Spoiler

Goes hand in hand with everything we learned of DS magic. Their powers were gifted by Dragons via an enchantment, lacrima, or eating upon their corpse. It is not something that can be simply taught out of magical textbook like GS or Ultear's Arc of Time.

 

[Kurumi Tokisaki]

We know how God Slayer magic is taught and we know how DS magic is taught. So again where are all these self taught Dragon Slayers at? They would be an entirely different generation from 1st-5th if it was actually self taught (unlike GS which has zero generational differences). Maybe wait until we even know his Gen before we start saying he just up and taught himself a magic no one has just taught themselves before. Man, learning DS magic out the ass would have been useful in the Dragon war lol.

Same for Elfseria we know he self-learned dragon slayer magic. He said it himself just like God Slayers learning self learn magic just came from the mouth of the guild master of Lamia scale. GS doesn't have generations as well. Ya, it would have been useful but no one managed to come up with a self-taught way just like Elfseia did during that time. Just because DS of that time couldn't learn DS magic on their own doesn't mean Elfseria can't as well. Unless proven otherwise in the future what says holds no value.

What are you talking about? We have to take that knowledge at face value by your logic lol. We don't use previously established rules and narrative to dictate logical conclusions. We just take statements at face value and believe everything someone says. Elsefaire words hold no water bcs you have zero idea of what his self taught method was.

Ya, If he was second gen he would have said that he has a Lacrima install inside or he ate a dragon if he was fifth-gen. He explicitly says he learned DS on his own to take on the dragon gods and was turn to dragon because of that. Unless proven otherwise I will take his words over yours.

Don't know if second gens can transform or not. Nothing in the manga was stated they can't transform. Maybe there's a trick, who knows. He also can again be a 5th gen. You don't know his methods yet you are trying to use his as some golden goose to say August can copy DS magic. August can't otherwise he would have as the Empire's goal was to fight against a dragon lmao.

The second gens so far hasn't turn into a dragon. Laxus has been using DS magic since he was a child and it's safe to assume he wouldn't turn into one.
They already had two dragons slayers in the empire. They had the means to take on a dragon. Just that all of them are fodder to Acnologia. August learning DS magic wouldn't make any difference.

Melt wasn't a DS spell. Literally not one DS has ever used the spell melt lol. And again August can't copy a magic that he has never seen before in the first place so it wasn't Natsu's magic.

If he can't then Mashima wouldn't bother showing panels of him using Melt when Gildarts was explaining the mechanism of his magic.

It can't simply be learned. "We got our powers from Dragons."- Natsu Dragneel.

Natsu is talking about the First and third gens here why would Mashima bother putting the foster parents of first gens. This shouldn't apply to Elfseria who managed to self teach himself dragon slayer magic. Just because someone couldn't manage to learn DS magic on their own in the past doesn't mean someone else can't do it on their own.

 

[Ramen]

I mean, by this logic you can say Dimaria can age seal Acnologia or Brandish can shrink him into the size of an ant since he was never shown being immune to those.

Well no because the gap between Irene and August is nowhere near the gap between Acnologia and Dimaria.

 

[Seven777]

We know nothing of Elfseria so that point is moot.


What does that have to do with anything I said? He got hurt by the magic he copied as soon as it was channeled through an external source.

Cana learned to use FG on her own. FG is also a spell that can be learned while DS is not.

It means just because August uses the magic differently to who he copied, doesn't mean it wasn't copied. August used Natsu's magic, that's why Natsu was able to negate it and it's why it was in Gildarts flashback. Besides, it's not like Natsu cant make a huge pillar of fire, August's is just bigger.

No she didn't, she was given it by Mavis, she still has the tattoo, no different to Gray. DS is magic you can learn.