Special Move Techniques Discussion

[Kaoz]

I don't feel Duke was using SSS so early on since we were yet to have it revealed to us until like a couple matches after that.

I don't think this is much of an argument since Oni used it in chapter 5.

 

[Ninomiya]

The circumstances were completely different then were they not?
We had no idea of the true strength of the best HSers, or any of their range of moves etc.
More importantly, Oni had 2 damn strings in his racket so it was crystal clear there was something special in what he was doing.

There is no indication that there was something special in what Duke was doing imho.
Konomi didn't emphasise the point in which the ball made contact with Duke's racket when he put Gin to sleep in their match.

 

[Kaoz]

More importantly, Oni had 2 damn strings in his racket so it was crystal clear there was something special in what he was doing.

Not really. If memory serves, for the longest the general consensus was that Oni was screwing around and that it was to show just how strong he was.

Anyway, there was an extra page on SSS a few months ago and Sai finally got around to translating it. Nothing spectacular, but for those that are interested:

Sai: there's actually not much info on the SSS
Sai: other than this is what allows you to hit the glowing shot
Sai: and that the super sweet spot take the 3 definitions of sweet spot and combines them into a single point
Sai: 1) The spot in which the speed of the hit ball reaches its peak
2) The spot in which the racket has the least vibration
3) The spot where the impact on the arm is the least
Sai: So basically those 3 definitions of different kinds of sweet spots
Sai: where as the super sweet spot is the point on the racket where all three hold true
Sai: and utilizing this helps you to hit the glowing shot
Sai: it allows you to maximize your power with minimaleffort

 

[Brandnewkid]

That's actually a lot of info on the SSS. Makes [no] sense.

 

[Ninomiya]

Not really. If memory serves, for the longest the general consensus was that Oni was screwing around and that it was to show just how strong he was.

Anyway, there was an extra page on SSS a few months ago and Sai finally got around to translating it. Nothing spectacular, but for those that are interested:

I see. Then I guess in all honest it depends on whether or not we think BJK uses SSS.
Out of all the 1st String level special shots, or I like... Top ranking ones, (I forgot what we called our top 2 ranking names) we've seen Mach Serve, BJK, GlowingShot, DH, Bakyuun and HDN.

Bakyuun had to be returned by BJK and MachServe was only returned due to someone's Insight and even then they still couldn't hit it specifically.
My point is that of all these top level shots, we've only had SSS confirmed for one of them.
If Oni's BJK and Tanegashima's HDN uses SSS then I'm definitely open to the belief that DH uses SSS. Otherwise I really doubt it.

 

[Kaoz]

Can't really think of any explanation for Sanada, Taira's and Hara's strings getting broken besides SSS.

 

[Hardy]

Well, Sai already did a comparission in his theory thread, and it's pretty clear that Konomi wanted to hint that a player needs to hit a SSS in order to hit a BJK.

Spoiler

But let us take a closer look here. We know that Oni was clearly hitting a SSS shot the entire time against Momoshiro because that is the only shot he was able to hit given his "JuuJi" Gut (JuuJi means Cross shape). But here we have Momo's Jack Knife:

Spoiler

When he hits it here, it's clearly off center of the racket and certainly not a SSS.

This brings us to later in the manga with the BJB Revolution. During this time, Momoshiro knows Black Jack Knife and with it:

1) He was able to prevent a gut breaking Bakyuun from destroying his racket gut
2) The power of his Jack Knife was exponentially increased

which we can see here

Spoiler

and here

Spoiler

Also note, in that first picture how Momo begins hitting the Black Jack Knife in the exact center of his racket which as opposed to the picture earlier.
 
Of course, this also means that Momoshiro, at least instinctively, can hit with the SSS even if he can't do it on command or at will.

But again, for the moment I'll say that Duke didn't hit a SSS in order to do his Homerun. There isn't a lot to really think he did, and I think that Konomi would had shown him actually hitting the ball if that was the case (instead of showing Gin flying after Duke's swing).

 

[LetalHawk]

Well, Sai already did a comparission in his theory thread, and it's pretty clear that Konomi wanted to hint that a player needs to hit a SSS in order to hit a BJK.


But again, for the moment I'll say that Duke didn't hit a SSS in order to do his Homerun. There isn't a lot to really think he did, and I think that Konomi would had shown him actually hitting the ball if that was the case (instead of showing Gin flying after Duke's swing).

Imagine Duke learned the GS and combined it with his DH

 

[Hardy]

Imagine Duke learned the GS and combined it with his DH

Lol. It would be some kind of MK fatality

I look foward to see characters mix techniques (like Sanada did in the past). 10 glowing shots would be something cool to see.

 

[Ninomiya]

Can't really think of any explanation for Sanada, Taira's and Hara's strings getting broken besides SSS.

Agreed, but there was no emphasis on the way in which their rackets hit the shot that would break their strings.
Unlike the way Oni's racket had emphasis when he wrecked Momoshiro's wrists.

Also, does this mean we are assuming Taira can use SSS? Since Bakyuun really seems like a G10 level move since its almost guaranteed to put a whole through your racket if you're lacking in the Tech dept. or just simply don't have a G10 level special move.

For that reason, I'm not too sure I wanna leant to the side of DH using SSS. Although I'm not ruling it out.

 

[Kaoz]

Also, does this mean we are assuming Taira can use SSS?

What? No. Bakyuun simply has a gut breaking property, the point is that it got reversed.

 

[Hardy]

Agreed, but there was no emphasis on the way in which their rackets hit the shot that would break their strings.

So?

Tanegashima's SSS was clearly shown, and so was Momo hitting BJK.

 

[Ninomiya]

So?

Tanegashima's SSS was clearly shown, and so was Momo hitting BJK.

What was Tanegashima's SSS? His HDN shot to nullify moves?
And what was Momoshiro's? His BJK?

Then it just supports my point that Duke's DH is very likely not an SSS shot since there was no emphasis on the shot like how Momoshiro's and Tanegashima's were...

What? No. Bakyuun simply has a gut breaking property, the point is that it got reversed.

Well you brought gut breaking into it.
I don't think gut breaking is all too essential since iirc Oni's BJK didn't break Momoshiro's racket.

The point still stands, there was no emphasis drawn on how Duke's racket made contact with the ball when he hit DH but there was for all the other examples that have been put forward in this argument. Its pretty simply at this stage.

 

[Hardy]

What was Tanegashima's SSS? His HDN shot to nullify moves?
And what was Momoshiro's? His BJK?

That shot thingy when he talked about the fishing game (he reflected Rai in that shot), lol.

Yeah, that's Momo's SSS.

Then it just supports my point that Duke's DH is very likely not an SSS shot since there was no emphasis on the shot like how Momoshiro's and Tanegashima's were...

And I agree... I already said that

---------- Post added at 06:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:47 PM ----------

Well you brought gut breaking into it.
I don't think gut breaking is all too essential since iirc Oni's BJK didn't break Momoshiro's racket.

You're not getting the point... kinda.

Remember that we're theorizing that the SSS reflects moves and that BJK has a stronger JK hit with the SSS. Now that you know that, let's proceed.

Momo reflected Bakyuun and broke his opponent's rackets (that's why Kaoz mentioned that, not because BJK itself breaks rackets).

Tanegashima reflected Rai against Sanada.

Oni reflected Momo's JK and prolly that mix of power broke the latter's wrists.

Now, Kaoz is saying ¨Is the Homerun a SSS and if that's the case, how much power is Duke's and how much is a reflection?¨. We (you and me) both agreed that Konomi didn't show Duke hitting the ball, just like he did with Tanegashima and Momoshiro, so, for the moment, there's nothing to really say ¨yeah, it's a SSS¨; even more considering how strong Duke is.

 

[Ninomiya]

You're not getting the point... kinda.

Remember that we're theorizing that the SSS reflects moves and that BJK has a stronger JK hit with the SSS. Now that you know that, let's proceed.

Momo reflected Bakyuun and broke his opponent's rackets (that's why Kaoz mentioned that, not because BJK itself breaks rackets).

Tanegashima reflected Rai against Sanada.

Oni reflected Momo's JK and prolly that mix of power broke the latter's wrists.

Now, Kaoz is saying ¨Is the Homerun a SSS and if that's the case, how much power is Duke's and how much is a reflection?¨. We (you and me) both agreed that Konomi didn't show Duke hitting the ball, just like he did with Tanegashima and Momoshiro, so, for the moment, there's nothing to really say ¨yeah, it's a SSS¨; even more considering how strong Duke is.

I actually really appreciate this.
I'm on the same page as everyone now.

 

[Hardy]

Yeah I realised you were kinda lost, lol. No problem ^^

You still think Duke can't hit an SSS then? (like I do, btw)

 

[Ninomiya]

Yeah I realised you were kinda lost, lol. No problem ^^

You still think Duke can't hit an SSS then? (like I do, btw)

Yeah that's my current stance on the matter. I don't want to rule it out because Duke has a ridiculous 27 in Base stats and is half-european which seems to count for a lot in PoT.

I feel that that just ONE stat difference in Power can make a huge difference in the impact of a Power shot.
Kawamura has a 5 in Power, Date had a 6 in Power iirc, yet Date can effortlessly send Kawamura flying and Kawamura can't make Ban's feet leave the ground.
Duke has a 7 so for the logic I explained in Kawamura/Date, it makes sense that Duke can send Gin to the "shadow realm" with just one shot.

 

[Ganonslayer101]

I think it would be important to discuss how Black Hole's time limit actually works in regards to the technique. I have a few Questions about it.
1) Is it 30 minutes of Unlimited Black Holes?
2) Does it only expect one for tally?
3) Is black hole hard to return, I.e. is the Returned shot Special?
4) Can you hit a special shot out of a Black Hole?
5) How long does a Black Hole last?
and 6) Is there a specific spot on the Black Hole that the ball has to hit, or is the whole trail viable?

 

[Kaoz]

Well, we haven't gotten that many specifics yet, but I'd think that:

- The number of black holes you open doesn't affect the time limit. Oni made no mention of it when he said that Tokugawa should've still had a lot of time left.
- A black hole probably lasts for the point it is used in? We didn't see any leftover holes before the point Byoudouin used the World Techniques in, but during that point the holes from returning Bullfighting of the Spanish and Phoenix of Egypt don't disappear.
- I don't think it matters where the ball hits the black hole, it seemed to stop instantly.
- The return itself does not seem to have any special properties. I would guess that it's technically possible to use a special move on the return, I don't think we'll ever see it happen though - special moves generally don't get combined.

 

[Ninomiya]

3) Is black hole hard to return, I.e. is the Returned shot Special?

I strongly believe so. Since Tokugawa was able to take a notable lead once he brought out Black Hole.