Hangout Tenkaichi Kurosuoba - Hangout Thread

[Sky]

Round 3 is live in its full beauty!

Vote and salt away till April 20th!

 

[Hermit]

Just ran a simulation of three of the battles

Shalltear v Gintoki:

Gintoki did his best...

Goku vs Zoro:

Goku stomped

Harlequin vs All Might

Pretty close, but All Might edged it out

 

[Seraph]

Goku vs Zoro:

Goku stomped

Why are you doing this to me?

 

[Lambu]

The thread closed while I was answering so will just post it here if its ok

i simply want to say that you cannot apply real life logic to fiction. We have to simply accept what the writer and directors wants to convey. If they want a character to be a planet buster or universe buster then we can only accept that.

Similarly toriko also don't follow real life logic either. They have light speed character too but why don't they destroy the planet when they can move at light speed. Thr velocity of a mass moving at light speed would have enough destructive force to destroy the planet yet they don't destroy it.

Most Fiction don't follow real life logic or explanation. These stories are for us to be entertained and not to take seriously and yet you're here talking about logic and what not.

I know that, of course the vast majority of fiction in manganime is not going to follow laws of physics. Thats why we get so many settings involving magic or divine powers, cause they are the easiest way to ignore those laws and build fantastic scenarios and characters, avoiding that complex territory that is "similitude with the real world".

The problem with Dragon Ball is that it took the "cosmic" route after the defeat of Piccolo Jr.
It decided that Goku was an alien instead of a version of Sun Wukong as it was first intended. It decided that energy defined as ki, which at first was just "Martial Arts: Superpower Edition" was actually some kind of Cosmic Force that could be measured through a scale of numbers... It went into the Sci-Fi territory, which can be a hit or a miss depending on the way the author develops it

Toriyama clearly didn't know what he was doing when he chose this path but he was quite creative at the time and improvised, making things kind of work till the end of Namek, where he just lost it for good.
He lost track of the system he had created, everything after "planetary level" became extremely abstract and difficult to define, and so he decided to not adress it. Thats why he got rid of "multipliers" like Kaioken and stuff, he messed up.
The only thing he did was say "this character is stronger than this one" no more numbers. He followed this strategy till the very end of Buu Saga and everytime he chose to be "smart" again (like Cell and his Solar System busting Kame or Babidi with Yakon) he messed up even more.

The problem was the fans, they got to see the numeric system (which made zero sense by the time of the Frieza fight) and decided to apply it to the whole series, making many ridiculous assumptions in the process. Dragon Ball has one of the most toxic fandoms for how entitled they feel to establish things as canon and giving power-levels to everything is one of its unfortunate inventions.

It might be a fun approach, but when you apply those numbers to a series that stopped working with them a long time ago we come to those crazy situations in which Goku has 8 x 10^84 power level and can delete the Milky Way with a fart, and no man, that is not how it is.


When Super was released, Toriyama decided to put a character that could destroy the "universe" (not an actual universe but a one dimension out of 12 in a proper Universe) as a ceiling but that only made the problem present in the original manga (or Z era to be precise) even more ridiculous.
Toriyama didn't learn from that mistake and followed the fans' vision making things go into an even more bizarre scaling, but that is because Tori stopped caring about DB long ago, he doesn't even remember a lot of the stuff he wrote 30 years ago and is just milking the goose that lays golden eggs till there's nothing left of it.

Therefore we cannot apply many of the "spoken facts" to characters and set them into a cosmic scale that doesn't even take itself seriously.
Can Broly destroy planets? Of course he can, characters way weaker than him could do it. Can he destroy galaxies? We dont know, no character has proved to be able to do that, not even Beerus. The last one only proved to be able to make the ""universe"" collapse by creating a rip in the space-time continuum.

On the other side Midora has proved to be able to throw punches that can destroy planets, can Broly do that? Well I dont know... maybe? Its pure speculation not a fact.

I hope I got to explain it well.

 

[Sky]

The second batch has ended as well.
Who won? Who got stomped?

Patience is king.

 

[Purity of Magi]

I mean cute and all these battle talks, but we all know Monaka one shots everyone anyway. Beyond outerverse lvl after all.


Nuff said.

 

[Seraph]

I mean cute and all these battle talks, but we all know Monaka one shots everyone anyway. Beyond outerverse lvl after all.


Nuff said.

I know you didn't nominate him out of consideration for everyone involved in this Tournament...he really would've made the Forum crash by his sheer presence alone.

 

[Lambu]

I mean cute and all these battle talks, but we all know Monaka one shots everyone anyway. Beyond outerverse lvl after all.


Nuff said.

One of the few that could have shown some resistance against El Grande Padre, but theres nothing we can do about it now...

 

[Sky]

That aside I still believe he can only eradicate angels from existence.

 

[Valhalla777]

That aside I still believe he can only eradicate angels from existence.

Like his sons and daughters, he abides by the rule that he cant meddle in mortals affairs. This rule is set for angels, and like you said if they dont follow it he will erase them.
If not prevented by law, i am pretty sure he can do whatever he wants. Heck, he can just remove certain abilities, statuses and traits from anyone he wishes. Not sure if it was stated anywhere, but since he was in charge of creating the tournament of power, its stage and rules, i can assume he removed the ability of flight from everyone. If allowed, or permitted by Zeno, i think he can erase you pretty easily.

 

[Sky]

Like his sons and daughters, he abides by the rule that he cant meddle in mortals affairs. This rule is set for angels, and like you said if they dont follow it he will erase them.
If not prevented by law, i am pretty sure he can do whatever he wants. Heck, he can just remove certain abilities, statuses and traits from anyone he wishes. Not sure if it was stated anywhere, but since he was in charge of creating the tournament of power, its stage and rules, i can assume he removed the ability of flight from everyone. If allowed, or permitted by Zeno, i think he can erase you pretty easily.

Yes but we have to judge them by their shackles as well.

 

[Valhalla777]

Yes but we have to judge them by their shackles as well.

ah, so the angel law applies here, didnt know that
but then he cant do anything, hell just forfeit the match, unless Zeno directly commands him to annihilate his opponent

 

[Sky]

ah, so the angel law applies here, didnt know that
but then he cant do anything, hell just forfeit the match, unless Zeno directly commands him to annihilate his opponent

Whis just evaded Broly. So he would just evade an enemy eternally? Unless he is broken by another kind of logic. Like Noras dance.

 

[Lambu]

Is he bound by the laws applied to the Angels tho? He's the "Father" so he kind of created them... Is he really shackeled by the laws he set on his children?

Is he even below Zeno? Isnt he like his protector like the Angels are to the Gods?
Daishinkan is a total mystery, he's in unknown territory and is impossible to measure accurately.

 

[Sky]

Is he even below Zeno?

I say yes. He is.

 

[Lambu]

I say yes. He is.

 

[Sky]

That moment when a user reacts with their own emoji...

 

[Hardy]

What's even the point in discussing if 37% Shaggy Blanco stomps with an arm behind his back.

 

[Sky]

What's even the point in discussing if 37% Shaggy Blanco stomps with an arm behind his back.

DevilArtemis Shaggy would still lose to someone packing the heat.

 

[mrsticky005]

I can't believe how many people voted for Nora. She's clearly a gag pick.

I would argue that this entire tournament is basically a gag pick.
Nora's opponent Battler was said to be able to have "plot manipulation".
Which is a pretty ridiculous ability because it breaks the fourth wall
and then you come back to the fact that we are all arguing about imaginary characters
winning imaginary battles for imaginary glory I imaginary guess.

Nora won because she's Nora friggin Scholar.

(and if you think I'm just making that up watch Twinkle Nora Rock Me because that's pretty much the story in a nutshell.)

Nora vs Kefka is going to be very interesting because Kefka I would say is chaotic evil while Nora is chaotic "good".
I say "good" in quotation marks because the morality in the Noraverse is pretty much "Nora is the hero because she is."

 

[Jammin]

Well I know I'm more interested to hear about this "Nora-verse" than I am these DBZ super characters. For whatever that's worth.