Hangout Tenkaichi Kurosuoba - Hangout Thread

[Sky]

Everything is ready! The fighting has ceased!
Come on over and join us at the Award Ceremony!

 

[Arjuna]

I also agree with the notion of that being "God" doesn't mean they are unbeatable.In fact in many series God's are hardly mountain level or such...

It depends upon the series.

 

[Battou]

Spoiler

She isn't just a god in name. She can kill everybody in this game by looking at them and is immortal herself in multiple ways. She's not just strong. She's functionally unbeatable. She can do virtually anything. Goku would die instantly. Anybody not immortal would.

Spoiler

As a counterargument, she´s not even the strongest in her own universe, SO She's equal in power to ariel for example.

 

[Sky]

Spoiler

Yeah, with Battou on this
Not all gods are unbeatable - and even those that are called 'immortal' can arguably be beaten, through creative means
and arguing is what this is all about, surely?

As far as I can see, Sky's being pretty forgiving with what's allowed in this tournament - allowing OP nominations, to hopefully lead to interesting and creative arguments to get around their 'OP' powers

... and, for those truly OP characters, we have the ban list (but, more fun not to have that list too populous, eh?)

Now I don't know Kumo Desu ga, Nani ka?, but, from the little you spoilered, I don't think that's quite enough to force a ban

Exactly that.
I see no point in just saying “nope can’t be beaten”. We do want to have some arguments beyond “my reiatsu is stronger than yours” (I will use any opportunity to sh*t on Kubo, yes.) after all.

 

[Jammin]

I get why we had to ban Milim because her abilities are something you can’t take away or overpower unless you are Zeno or Othinus. I don’t want to ban someone who is just very powerful by in universe abilities though. Just to keep that in mind.

I fully appreciate that. I still think she needs to be banned. She's not even playing by the same rules as everybody else. It's not even a matter of strength. Your game, your rules. But remember that I tried to warn you.

 

[z.5]

Spoiler

She can do virtually anything

Does sound potentially ban-worthy, however

How

Spoiler

virtually

is

Spoiler

virtually

exactly?

Spoiler

Goku would die instantly

Her and everyone else's mum - It's funny how non-OP Goku is in this game

Spoiler

Anybody not immortal would

What about those who

Spoiler

are immortal

?
Can she be beaten by other means?
Absorbed, for example?
Tired out?
Can she harm herself?
Would something akin to Gennosuke Kōga's Doujutsu work against her?

I reckon there could potentially be ways to argue for an immortal to lose - but, as I said, this all depends on the powers that she has (I repeat my lack of knowledge about her character/powers)

 

[Sky]

Could also counter her eyes with Uchiha shenanigans. Probably.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 15, 2021, Original Post Date: Mar 15, 2021 ---

Goku is only a benchmark for raw power after all.

 

[Jammin]

Does sound potentially ban-worthy, however

How

Spoiler

virtually

is

Spoiler

virtually

exactly?


Her and everyone else's mum - It's funny how non-OP Goku is in this game


What about those who

Spoiler

are immortal

?
Can she be beaten by other means?
Absorbed, for example?
Tired out?
Can she harm herself?
Would Gennosuke Kōga's Doujutsu work against her, for example?

I reckon there could potentially be ways to argue for an immortal to lose - but, as I said, this all depends on the powers that she has (I repeat my lack of knowledge about her character/powers)

Spoiler

Well, she is immortal and exists separately from her physical body so all physical type attacks are out but using soul destruction is possible to destroy her. Except it's not because she can respawn from her spiders. So you'd have to kill her and every spider of hers in existence at the same time all with attacks that destroy souls.

She can heal and gain stamina and magic from her spiders across the world at all times. She nullifies abnormal status so something like that Doujutsu would not work. Even if it somehow could each spider is a fully functioning independent self. Destroying one does nothing. And she has multiple minds which makes mental attacks fairly useless.

 

[GrySun]

Hm from reading more here I'm not sure whether Giorno should be allowed..

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 15, 2021, Original Post Date: Mar 15, 2021 ---

Is the main criteria that the person "is beatable" within their own universe? One could make an argument that Giorno is not beatable.

 

[Sky]

Hm from reading more here I'm not sure whether Giorno should be allowed..

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 15, 2021, Original Post Date: Mar 15, 2021 ---

Is the main criteria that the person "is beatable" within their own universe? One could make an argument that Giorno is not beatable.

Where I first drew the line was at reality warping or rather reality destruction. Basically no matter if Milim or Shiraori, Zeno or Othinus or even Haruhi could wipe them from existence by wanting to do so. There is no effective counter.

What is fine is if for example even if you are unbeatable in your own universe, another character from a different one could still defeat you with its own shenanigans.

 

[Lambu]

Is the main criteria that the person "is beatable" within their own universe?

This would be a good criteria for the next time I guess. Reading the list of entries I can see the hax bunch dominating till they meet each other in the branch.

 

[GrySun]

Where I first drew the line was at reality warping or rather reality destruction. Basically no matter if Milim or Shiraori, Zeno or Othinus or even Haruhi could wipe them from existence by wanting to do so. There is no effective counter.

What is fine is if for example even if you are unbeatable in your own universe, another character from a different one could still defeat you with its own shenanigans.

Haha then Giorno is definitely not legit as he has exactly what you're describing with manipulating reality, making anything "not happen". Nvm then, will look for someone less broken.

 

[Arjuna]

Where I first drew the line was at reality warping or rather reality destruction.

Okay i don't know but Battler highly fits this though

Spoiler

Battler used Multiplanar World Collapsation" technique to deny that the battle between Beatrice and Virgilia happened in the first place, collapsing infinite possibilities into a single scenario where it never occured


Battler can manipulate kakera, which are crystallizations of lower worlds that record and contain infinite possibilities, as well as their fate and plot, encompassing higher dimensional structures alongside countless spiritual / mental realms, as well as nothingness devoid of space and time entirely.

He also can manipulate the concepts of the Human Domain, which are visualized as physical objects on his level of existence, and create several concepts on the level of a higher-order world, such as gravity, out of his thoughts.

All taken from VS Battle wiki.

 

[Erinyes]

Where I first drew the line was at reality warping or rather reality destruction. Basically no matter if Milim or Shiraori, Zeno or Othinus or even Haruhi could wipe them from existence by wanting to do so. There is no effective counter.

What is fine is if for example even if you are unbeatable in your own universe, another character from a different one could still defeat you with its own shenanigans.

I guess this one is ban-able too , right ?

 

[Sky]

I guess this one is ban-able too , right ?

Well there is a reason we call her Godoka. XD

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 15, 2021, Original Post Date: Mar 15, 2021 ---

Okay i don't know but Battler highly fits this though

Spoiler

Battler used Multiplanar World Collapsation" technique to deny that the battle between Beatrice and Virgilia happened in the first place, collapsing infinite possibilities into a single scenario where it never occured


Battler can manipulate kakera, which are crystallizations of lower worlds that record and contain infinite possibilities, as well as their fate and plot, encompassing higher dimensional structures alongside countless spiritual / mental realms, as well as nothingness devoid of space and time entirely.

He also can manipulate the concepts of the Human Domain, which are visualized as physical objects on his level of existence, and create several concepts on the level of a higher-order world, such as gravity, out of his thoughts.

All taken from VS Battle wiki.

I leave that decision to @MarmaladeSky

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 15, 2021 ---

Haha then Giorno is definitely not legit as he has exactly what you're describing with manipulating reality, making anything "not happen". Nvm then, will look for someone less broken.

Well I wouldn’t know but I trust your judgement.

 

[GrySun]

Let's just say if your character can win without actually fighting the opponent they probably shouldn't be nominated here..

 

[Jammin]

@zi here I took a tiny bit of the wikia page to give you a little better idea what Battou will have unleashed.

Spoiler: Extreme levels of Kumo Spoilers in here.

• Physical Strength beyond the System: As a god, Shiraori's stats are above the System's limit.[22] Even a right straight delivered by Shiraori can penetrate Ariel's Physical Nullification and give her a bleeding nose.[24]
• Fluoroscopy: An ability that allows Shiraori to see with closed eyes.[20] It also grants her vision in 360 degrees, through and around walls, and more. She has no blind-spots.[25]
• Transformation: Shiraori can freely switch between a human form and her previous Arachne form with just a thought.[20]
• Thread Manipulation: Due to her spider heritage, Shiraori can produce and manipulate spider threads.[20] Her threads are so durable that even Ariel, with her nearly maxed strength, cannot break them with brute force. Their only vulnerability was to fire - and even then only high-ranking fire magic. However, with time, she overcame even this weakness; See: Dimensional Magecraft.[22]
• Immortality & Regeneration: As a god Shiraori is immortal. She will never die of old age.[26] Destroying her body is meaningless because the true form of a god is its soul, even destroying the head will only cause her to momentarily lose the ability to think. In this sense, their bodies are simply vessels for their souls. There are only two ways to kill a god. The first is to wear them down until they lack the energy for regeneration. The second is to use magecraft to directly destroy their soul.[27] Even if one has soul-destroying magecraft this isn't easy; according to Ariel it would require hundreds of users of Soul Break to affect Güliedistodiez.[23]
• Barriers: Shiraori can create magical and physical barriers around herself[28] and others.[29]
• Foresight: Even after becoming a god, Shiraori is still able to use this skill.[22] It strengthens the user’s predictive abilities. Furthermore, it allows the user to see the possible outcomes of the immediate future.
• Evil Eyes: Shiraori developed new versions of her Evil Eye Skills after becoming a god.[30] Due to her having multiple pupils within her eyes thanks to her spider heritage, she can use all of them at once and due to her vision-enhancing Skills she can effectively use them in any direction thanks to Fluoroscopy.
  • Evil Eye of Analysis: An Evil Eye which analyzes the energy of an opponent's soul, giving a rough estimate of their strength.[31]
  • Evil Eye of Grudge: Shiraori has developed a Magecraft version of this Evil Eye.[30] It continually weakens all of the recipient’s stats while damaging their HP, MP, and SP, it also adds the drained HP, Mana and SP to herself.
  • Evil Eye of Panic: Strikes Fear into the enemies in her view.[32] The only people that were proven to be able to resist this are Güllie and Ariel, so it even works against high-grade fear resistance. By reversing the effects of the Evil Eye of Panic. Shiraori can grant the target serenity instead of fear.[33]
  • Evil Eye of Static: Paralyzes the opponent making them completely unable to move. The skill doesn't only paralyze the body but also shuts down the mind making the opponent unable to remember what happened while paralyzed.[34] Shiraori once described it as "King Crimson! Not quite the same though".[35]
  • Evil Eye of Attraction and Repulsion: An Evil Eye that automatically repels and eliminates any attack in her field of view.[25]
  • Evil Eye of Extinction: A Rot Attribute Evil Eye, that instantly disintegrates the target.[36]
  • Evil Eye of Gluttony: An Evil Eye inspired by the Gluttony ruler skill. Using this Shiraori can decompose and absorb the energy of any magic within her field of view. This way she can even decompose and absorb the power of Anti-Magic Fields.[37]
  • Evil Eye of Past Sight: An Evil Eye that lets Shiraori see the past; noted to be comparable to detective vision.[38]
• Hacking the System: Shiraori can hack the System through clones sent to Sariel. Of course, she could do it herself as well, but she has better things to do. By interfering with the System she can change various things. For example, she attempted to eradicate the Herotitle this way. Shiraori wants to eventually reach the point of being able to destroy the System.
  • Soul Shelter: Shiraori has control over the System's Soul Shelter, which allows her to temporarily remove souls from the cycle of reincarnation.[39] Resulting in protection in case of System collapse.[40]
  • Regenerating the Soul: Shiraori demonstrated being able to heal a soul that is about to be destroyed. This requires System access.[41]
  • Message Overview: While she can no longer receive messages from the system due to no longer being a user, she can directly search and review the logs
• Resurrecting the Dead: Shiraori can resurrect the dead. However, this is only possible in a world within the System.[42]
• Dimensional Magecraft: Shiraori specializes in dimensional magecraft, and its many capabilities. She can use an enhanced version of teleport that allows her to teleport anywhere she wants, even to other worlds.[43] Furthermore, she can sense and interfere with the teleportation of others to make them teleport to unintended areas.[44] Shiraori can create vast pocket dimensions and can manipulate the flow of time within them to a certain degree.[45] She can teleport entire armies[46] and uses this at times to teleport opponents into her pocket dimensions. Touching is not required for teleportation. To aim the dimensional magecraft one can either aim at a certain place, like normal, or also just designate the person one wishes to affect, in which case knowledge of the location of the target is unnecessary.[47]
  • Threads: Shiraori's spider threads are laced with space. More specifically every thread is at the same time a pocket dimension of its own, making them practically indestructible unless one can destroy space itself.[25]
  • Dimensional Fissures: Shiraori can create dimensional fissures. She uses them to defend against attacks by opening up a portal into a different dimension and then redirecting the attack with a second portal. She also hides her clones in pocket dimensions, opening up portals in a web-like pattern to attack with her custom Evil Eyes.[48]
• Division: Shiraori's aptitude for splitting her consciousness into multiple bodies emerges as one of her most subtle, yet powerful, Skills in the form of division. By creating innumerable tiny spider clones implanted with her consciousness, she has nearly super-computer levels of multi-tasking ability. Shiraori uses this immense ability to partition her effort into researching new abilities and hacking the System, as well as gathering information by sending out her spider-clones to track key individuals and locations throughout the world. It is, in fact, this massive information network that she has created that is one of the most instrumental assets in her arsenal. She currently has over ten thousand clones all over the world and in various pocket dimensions.[49]Should her main body die she can simply transfer her soul into one of the clones, making them all extra lives. Her clones generally have the same skills as herself, though their base abilities are reduced.
  • Mind Control: Shiraori can mind control people by having a small clone crawl into their ear and connect to their brain.[50]
  • Exponential Spider Summoning: Shiraori can summon a great number of clones from her shadow. Each clone can then summon even more clones, resulting in an exponential number of spiders appearing.[28]

Pay special attention to the fact that all of her Evil Eye skills can be used simultaniously and with her eyes closed at all angles and through walls. With no blind spots.

 

[HereNThere]

Giorno was someone I considered, but I knew that wouldn't be fair, lol.

 

[Sachsenhesse]

Haha then Giorno is definitely not legit as he has exactly what you're describing with manipulating reality, making anything "not happen". Nvm then, will look for someone less broken.

Correct me if i am wrong, but if he gets speedblitzed so that he cant react, this wont help him.

 

[Sky]

@Copy Panda just one please :3

 

[Copy Panda]

If neither has been nominated yet, I think I'll go with Aizen!