Nuff said, who is stronger at it current stands? and who will win if they were to face off in the main tournament? Please give your input, also Fuji Shuusuke vs Atobe Keigo as current, New Atobe vs New Fuji, Q.P vs Ryoga?
For Current Yuki vs Tezuka I think Tezuka would win. Tezuka as shown against Fuji and Volk, can enter Teni'Muho at will and thus shuts down the Yips. I can only assume the Dream Yips has the same weakness as the original. And since Tezuka stomped Atobe with his current power, I would say he can defeat Yukimura pretty handedly.
Currently, Tezuka would beat Yukimura without a single sweatdrop.
Atobe would beat Fuji as well but the difference between them shouldn't be as big.
For Q.P. vs Ryoga... I would say we don't have enough information at all -but, personally, I would give it to Echizen.
If you are interested in more match-ups, we have a tier list right here. The thread is quite dead -and a bit outdated- but it would give you a general idea of some of our opinions.
Sanada already kinda believed tezuka being stronger than Yukura since middle school, looking at their matches recently --Tezuka would win this match up.
Yukimura is stronger than people think. I will be the lone voice saying he would win.
Tezuka beat Atobe. But Yukimura probably also would beat Atobe. Yea Atobe had a lot of power ups, but Yukimura has crushed almost every opponent ever 6-0. It would be a good match to see if Atobe Kingdom is enough, but I am sure Yukimura would break it.
Yukimura easily crushed solo Frankensteiner. And the German Junior High respect Frankensteiner. So we know he is strong despite losing to a God pro.
We don't know how PoP works with Yips. We all assume PoP beats Yips because Ryoma did it. But it was still mentioned that Yips is incredibly hard to break. Ryoma PoP was just playing for fun which broke Yips. Tezyka PoP is more playing for himself his own goals, that might not break Yips who knows. If his goal is winning then he can still be drawn into worrying and Yips imo.
Unless you want to argue all PoP is about playing for fun. I really don't think Tezuka is playing for fun.
Also I am sure Yukimura has improved to fight PoP. He isn't the type to just lose to a single move and not train around it.
Sanada saying Tezuka is better is just dumb storyline stuff. Tezuka is always better until he isn't. It was already shown that Yukimura crushes national Sanada that national Tezuka struggled with. That alone proves Sanada is an idiot.
Note: Tezuka would probably win in the story. But I think Yukimura is stronger.
Yukimura is basically the new Tezuka. Measuring rod of power that will probably lose to show the opponents are strong.
I only say this because I feel like he doesn't know how to balance Yukimura.
I don't think current Yukimura would have 6-0 Atobe, no. No matter if he will break Atobe or not, I don't really care. I don't even know if the yips will kick in because Atobe can score using Atobe Kingdom. The only way I see breaking AK right now if breaking your arm like Mouri, and if Yukimura do that he's finish for every point after that anyway.
Yips, from Yolk explanation, seems to be stems from pressuring the opponent. PoP's point from the explanation is to just enjoy it. That seems to be why Yips doesn't work on Ryoma's PoP. Now, regardless of whether PoP negate Yips or prevent yips, it doesn't really matter. How can Yukimura train around PoP? PoP just raise the base stats to the point where the players turn from getting 4-0 to 6-0 the sucky captain.
National Tezuka struggle with Sanada because he wasn't prepare when Sanada was hiding two tech before the fight. Yukimura know of Sanada earlier and prepare a way to deal with it. Don't forget that even if Tezuka is unprepare, he manage to develop a whole new tech in his fight against Sanada which actually would BEAT Sanada if Yukimura didn't intervene.
Tezuka is shown to improve a lot midmatch, like Phantom, Zero Shiki, Saiki, and PoP. Yukimura so far only show to adapt to his oppo tech but never really manage to catch Ryoma serve until he slow it down aka going easy on him. He got howling, but that's a doubles tech that only kick in when he's pair with Tokugawa so eh.
In summary, the current Tezuka seems far beyond Yukimura AND his growth rate during battle is also higher.
Yukimura's identity is all about being able to return nearly every single shot. It is a dead end argument on whether or not Atobe Kingdom works or not.
Yukimuras ability to return every shot has no real explanation. Sure everyone should have an absolute unreturnable shot with AK, but it is his choice whether Yukimura can defeat it or not any given day.
But Tezuka's PoP wasn't purely enjoying tennis. It was a variation. Tezuka let go of his burden or playing for others. If he is playing only for himself he can still feel pressured.
There isn't much to say on the vs PoP front. But remember some highschoolers were not impressed when Tezuka got PoP. Presumably they know of PoP and can still win. Yukimura was called the Child of God who was defeating current 11th graders back then. If other hs can beat PoP through training surely Yuki can.
Also Ryoma broke through Yips with HIS strength not PoP according to the story.
I disagree. Yukimura destroyed every borrowed technique Ryoma stole from Muga. And we can assume those techs were stolen to win points, but they couldn't. Trails on the other hand loses points, even if he ultimately wins. Yuki just returns everything first time or not.
Yuki broke through Yips which was a big deal. You can ignore his growth if you want to say you are biased.
Talking about growth potential also doesnt help. Yukimura was the first to unlock Muga.
And he can still unlock more doors powering him up even further. Isn't it said that now he is playing more for fun than absolute victory. Sou ds like he could PoP eventually if he allowed it.
The thing is PoP IS enjoying tennis. Once Tezuka let go of his burden, he can enjoy tennis and thus use PoP. That is what it is. And there's nothing in the manga that suggests Tezuka is using a variation.
The HS probably doesn't even knows what PoP is. The only person to use PoP before Ryoma and Tezuka is Nanjoroh. This is mention in the manga, canon and confirm. Unless PoP grows like rabies from the day Ryoma unlock it, it should be the true.
And Nanjiroh beat #1 players. Who the hell are those players that beat PoP that you mention? Oh, Oni beat Kintarou? HE BEAT HIM USING POP man. rofl. Really? Or you mean Tokugawa? That player is the person who would beat #1 if the #1 doesn't injure him the night before the battle.
Acutally, Tezuka is shown use Hyakuren in 1st year of MS. It is never mention when Yukimura unlock Muga. So no, it is not confirm tha Yukimura is the first one to unlock muga. Where are you getting all these non-fact from?
And no, he got lower growth potential than Tezuka mid match. I already list Tezuka upgrade compare to Yukimura upgrade. Just because you think Yukimura might got it doesn't mean he will. And even if he did, Tezuka so far shows more growth potential so he'll get something else to beat up Yukimura with anyways.
And Yukimura beat some stupid crappy tech from muga, so what? None of the tech he beat is remotely even close to PoP. Tezuka destroys Atobe 6-0 so much he weeps on the floor. And it's not clear that Yukimura can do the same thing at all.
Ryoma slow down his serve in the manga, which is the only reason Yukimura can hit them back in the first place. Ryoma never mentions to speed up again, so easy going Ryoma beat yukimura,live with it. Yukimua didn't return everything, he almost loses to Hyakuren+Saiki combination. But luckily for him, yips kick in first. Tezuka got the same combination and PoP.
The only way for Yukimura to win is that Tezuka got hit by a bus before the match.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---
Ah yeah, to add to that, it probably never strike you because you like Yukimura so much.
But 1st time Yukimura see black aura, it ace him. First time #6 see it, he manage to hit the ball. Takes from those manga facts what you want.
Oh, btw. manga actually MEASURES how well you play, which is the reason Yukimura can return his opponent ball to begin with. When Yukimura is playing with Fuwa, who got the same base stats, Fuwa was winning some points on scene.
Tezuka got 23.5, Yukimura got 23.
Tezuka got higher base stats (23.5 vs 23), better tech (PoP+Hyakuren+Saiki+Phantom vs whatever Yips), AND better growth during the matches.
Oh, and Tezuka was training under the champion team, which is #1, as oppose to Japan team. Hmm... yeah, Yukimura needs a truck to win this. Oh, or maybe if Byoudonin hit Tezuka in the body before the match, that might help Yukimura too.
The story said Ryoma broke through Yips with his own strength, not PoP. So we still can't definitively say Pop breaks Yips.
Pretty sure Shuji said Tezuka has more to grow around the time PoP was unlocked. Regardless of when he said it, he recognized that Tezuka wasn't finished. Meaning he knows about PoP or he knows it isn't ultimate.
Growth potential doedst even matter. We are talking about who would win at a point in time. All the conjecture about evolving mid match is just hypothetics.
But Tezuka has lost points to sucky skills that Yukimura could beat. And Yukimura has grown by breaking Yips.
Fact is, Yukimura has never had any reason to grow because he was too strong.
I will give that was losing to PoHw. But Tezuka has never shown to have PoHW control like Ryoma. Yea Tezuka has Zone so he doesn't need it on his legs. But a stationary tank is a lot less scarey than a fighter jet. And we don't know if Yukimura couldn't beat PoHWRyoma if he started sweating a little.
He did lose his first point to Clutch. But if you are manhandling someone and you know all of his techs, you probably would let your guard down too. It certainly isn't good for Yukimura but he assumed it was all over. I'm not sure if it was spectators or Yukimura who said they felt bad watching, or maybe that was the Ryoka match only. But Sanada was just swinging everywhere desparately. And in the past Sanada never broke Yips.
Frankensteiner is also trained in the champion team. And was hyped up, but lost solo.
I can't find the chapter. But was is said that Oni never had PoP before? Something about remembering hos old goals and such, but I'm not sure if that is confirmed to be it was new or reawakened.
I can't find the chapter. But was is said that Oni never had PoP before? Something about remembering hos old goals and such, but I'm not sure if that is confirmed to be it was new or reawakened.
It was confirmed to be new. Momoshiro brought up the possibility of Oni having had it all along, but was quickly contradicted by the others.
Also, why are we disregarding the match those two actually had in the past here? It was a few years back, but still gives a pretty solid baseline to go off. Back then, according to Sanada, the two of them were about even and Tezuka might've been a bit stronger even. Tezuka presumably wasn't yipped in that match or he probably wouldn't have been able to keep up. In my eyes Tezuka has also made more progress since then.
You may argue that we don't have confirmation that Tezuka's TnK prevents Yips, but I think the question whether or not he'd even fall into it even without TnK is a very valid one. Like I said, he probably wasn't affected back then and he also overcame his personal yips while he was recovering from his arm injury. I think if anything it points more towards Yips not working on Tezuka.
PoP is part of Echizen strength. And now also part of Tezuka. Btw, this is all assuming that Yips can hit Tezuka. We knows they play in their 1st year and that the match is pretty even. That means Yips Tezuka can play evenly with Yukimura or Yukimura can't yips Tezuka in the first place. It's not even confirm that Tezuka will be hit by yips in the 1st place. So it's
1. Yips Tezuka can play evenly with yips Yukimura, effectively means yips is useless.
2. Tezuka doesn't get yips, effectively means yips is completely useless.
Also, it's canon that Tezuka got higher base stats than Yukimura. Yukimura strength come from his higher base stats. That's how no one else hit a ball past him. Like I say, Fuwa, who got the same base as the child of god, steal some points from Yukimura. Everyone that Yukimura is show to yips so far got lower stats than he does. Volk doesn't get yips, at all. Franken is a maybe, but Yukimura justs looks stronger than Franken from what we see so far. Yips come from pressure. How you even pressure someone who is stronger than you? That makes little to no sense at all. Maybe if Yukimura is holding a bomb switch and say if Tezuka get a point, he'll press that button?
And knowing about PoP means... what? I bet you Shuuji never plays with Nanjiroh otherwise he'll be impress as well.
Growth potential DOES matter. Tezuka is growing at faster rate than Yukimura. To think otherwise is just assumption and fact>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> assumptionn 7 days 24 hours a week.
So, from what I read. What you are saying is, "If we ignore Tezuka tremendous potential and the higher base stats and that yips might not work on Tezuka base on their past match, Yukimura stand a chance"? rofl
Without growth, there's no way Yukimura can beat Tezuka right now. He'll get own. HARD. Into next weeks, and the weeks after that, and into eternity. Tezuka that loses point was because Sanada was developing those move to beat Tezuka. It even say so in the manga. And despite developing move to beat Tezuka, Sanada would have lost. That's how OP Tezuka is.
Yukimura never state to have his guard down. Don't make stuff up. Sanada is a lot suckier than Tezuka and he beat Tezuka only because of Yukimura advice and Rikkai needs a win. Even then, he need his "ROAR" to negate Tezuka spin.
Oni never had PoP before, but it was PoP Oni that go 1-1 with PoP Kintarou. I don't see Yukimura getting 1 game from PoP Oni, but I certainly can see Tezuka doing so.
Anyways, Yukimura base stats is lower than Tezuka. That means Yukimura will lose to Tezuka in a rally. And with all those move Tezuka had, the cap is just getting bigger and bigger. Yukimura is better than Franken. But I doubt Franken even dent Tezuka.
Yeah, I'm bias. I don't think Yukimura is that weak. I don't see him getting crushed by Tezuka.
He can return the Zero-shiki stuff and break the Phantom and the Zone.
If Tezuka got Yips, I don't think he would break out of it, but I don't see it happening to him in the first place, though.
Statistically, they're about even. 23 to 23.5, right? I don''t see .5 as making a difference, anyway. And plus, statistically, you can beat your opponent in every category, but if you don't beat them on the scoreboard, it doesn't matter.
So, the deciding factor would be Pinnacle of Perfection.
If it's just plain Tezuka vs. Yukimura, I see it going 7-6 (one set match)-- anyone's ballgame.
But once Tezuka gets Pinnacle of Perfection, it's over. I think Yukimura could hang in there for a while (Remember him returning the Samurai Drive when the ball got cut in half?), but in the end, Tezuka would win.
Oh yeah, I forgot about the high probability of Tezuka's injury prone self getting injured again. Put some ice on it and walk it off, boy.
We haven't seen anything yet, but do you think Yukimura hasn't made a plan for PoP? I'm not really sure. I mean there isn't much you can do besides improve your base, but I mean Yukimura does weird stuff.
Dream Yips so far has affected many strong opponents. We just assume Tezuka is immune to everything, mostly because he is super stern and disciplined.....uhhhh Sanada is super stern and disciplined. Sanada fought Tezuka evenly at Nats but got wrecked by Yukimura not even close.
Tezuka is obviously for strong. For story purposes no one will ever be permanantly Yip'd out because it just isn't interesting to most. But the only real question is PoP counter or not.
We haven't seen anything yet, but do you think Yukimura hasn't made a plan for PoP? I'm not really sure. I mean there isn't much you can do besides improve your base, but I mean Yukimura does weird stuff.
Dream Yips so far has affected many strong opponents. We just assume Tezuka is immune to everything, mostly because he is super stern and disciplined.....uhhhh Sanada is super stern and disciplined. Sanada fought Tezuka evenly at Nats but got wrecked by Yukimura not even close.
Tezuka is obviously for strong. For story purposes no one will ever be permanantly Yip'd out because it just isn't interesting to most. But the only real question is PoP counter or not.
Great points. And yeah, personally, I think Yukimura would win. And maybe Tezuka getting Yips is possible after all. If so, I still say he wouldn't break it. The match just all depends on Tezuka getting Pinnacle of Perfection. If he can, Tezuka wins, if not Yukimura wins.
Yukimura is incredibly strong. You have to remember this is the guy that the creator of the series himself said was like a joker in a deck of cards.
Great points. And yeah, personally, I think Yukimura would win. And maybe Tezuka getting Yips is possible after all. If so, I still say he wouldn't break it. The match just all depends on Tezuka getting Pinnacle of Perfection. If he can, Tezuka wins, if not Yukimura wins.
Yukimura is incredibly strong. You have to remember this is the guy that the creator of the series himself said was like a joker in a deck of cards.
Your wrong Tezuka destroys Yukimura 6-0 he has higher base stats and POP and yips is useless against it as shown in his match with Ryoma. You do know Tezuka already has a POP and can use it at will right? Yukimura days at the top are long gone Tezuka, Ryoma and Kin-chan have surpassed him and maybe Atobe as well.
Your wrong Tezuka destroys Yukimura 6-0 he has higher base stats and POP and yips is useless against it as shown in his match with Ryoma. You do know Tezuka already has a POP and can use it at will right? Yukimura days at the top are long gone Tezuka, Ryoma and Kin-chan have surpassed him and maybe Atobe as well.
We have no clue if PoP counters Yips. That was only the first shown instance. Clearly strong will counters it.
I am sure Yukimura lost to Ryoma and was just like oh well, no point in trying to get better. I don't need to develope any new techniques like Dream.
We just assume Tezuka is immune to everything, mostly because he is super stern and disciplined.....uhhhh Sanada is super stern and disciplined. Sanada fought Tezuka evenly at Nats but got wrecked by Yukimura not even close.
As far as we know Yukimura's had Yips since forever though, which means he also had it when he faced Tezuka in the flashback. But according to Sanada, Tezuka was going at least even with Yukimura back then. Yukimura also indirectly admitted that Tezuka's troublesome when playing against Ryoma. He said that Ryoma's Hyakuren was ineffective because he didn't have a Zone to back it up, but in return this also means it should be troublesome when the opponent does have a Zone.
At least Kintarou and Atobe are below him according to Konomi - just before the Greece match (i.e. after we learned about Kintarou's victory over Yukimura and Atobe's power-up), Yukimura's intro box still described him as the no. 1 middle schooler.
At least Kintarou and Atobe are below him according to Konomi - just before the Greece match (i.e. after we learned about Kintarou's victory over Yukimura and Atobe's power-up), Yukimura's intro box still described him as the no. 1 middle schooler.
Which chapter is that intro box in since I don't remember? We all know that isn't true anyway since Tezuka and Ryoma are above him and there middle schoolers..
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