Discussion The 11 Supernovae

[Imitorar]

Re: The 11 Supernovas

@ Imotorar : I'm more than disappointed about your post : it is full of nonsense about the creation power.

Do you think that he can create living creatures ? The people who talk inside his body and behave as the ones we've seen in the restaurant are living (they called him father too, they moove, they talk etc ...) : it is obvious that there are humans. But you suppose that they can be created by him. So, it would mean that Capone has the power of God inside his own body/barrier dimension.

But if it is a God power, it would obviously not work out of his barrier limit which is the limit of his DF influence.
With the cavalry charge you can see these people coming out of his body and always living.
So, it would mean that in the normal dimension, out of his DF influence (the barrier limit), the living creature are moving without his power (like autonomous creatures, able to think and act as he needs to : so, it would really be a God Power (indeed, his influence out of the barrier dimension would be a normal influence, like when normal people give orders to others).

So, it would mean that his god power works always out of his barrier limit. Every creation he would put out of his body, would have a normal height and live in the normal dimension. But the gold creation power would only work inside the barrier dimension.

Does it seem realistic to have such a DF ?

No, not at all. Not in the slightest bit. A Devil Fruit that turns you into a human fortress and allows you to create miniature soldiers to man yourself? It sounds completely ludicrous. And this being One Piece, where absurd powers abound, it also seems like a plausible ability. I'm not saying that "One Piece is weird" justifies all theories, because it doesn't. But this is Devil Fruit powers, where more or less anything goes.

Yes, I think that the "barrier limit" as you called it was just his powers going back to full size. It happens at a certain distance. But that doesn't mean that he should be able to create things outside of himself. I assume that the power works by allowing Capone to create soldiers, and then release them. I think that it makes sense, there's no need to assume that he should only be able to create soldiers in the shrinking limit. The shrinking is one thing, depending on distance. And the creating of soldiers is another thing, depending on "being inside of Capone". And once created, they're created, fully functional beings. An unlimited supply of soldiers. A very powerful ability.

Though I admit, you raise some good points, and the theory that Capone can create his own soldiers doesn't seem as strong now, but like I said, I also like Razh's idea that Capone is a fortress with the ability to shrink people to man himself. Though that theory doesn't really explain why Capone also has the ability to shrink things, an ability which seems independent of his being a fortress, but it could be explained as a necessary function, having to shrink things down to fit the fortress. But to be honest, I find his creating the soldiers as a function of the fortress to be a far neater explanation, not to mention a far cooler one.

 

[Schabrak]

Re: The 11 Supernovas

Just wanted to mention, that the first time we see him in the restaurant, his man are standing outside talking to him like Nakama/Mafia.^^ Than he kills or hurts one...

He just SHOULD NOT be able to create life by himself. It's not a cool power, it's the power of biology and ...well some say the mighty god. Creating a adult human life with high intelligence is science fiction. And it would give him "two" different DF powers. -> not possible

 

[Lord Rayleigh]

Re: The 11 Supernovas

I think we can assume like Razh said, that he is a fortress man : if this power was just to shrink things, it would not mean he would be able to change his body structure.
Indeed, the more important transformations of normal bodies we have seen for the moment are cyborgs and zombies. And in all the cases, we cannot open the body of a living creature and modify it like a puppet : I mean there was a normal consistency inside : blood and flesh (#)
So, the fortress structure must have directly something to do with the DF's main characteristics and not only to a operation he was able to undergo thanks to shrinking.

We can explain the shrinking power I suppose because as a fortress man, he needs to have the exact power of a normal fortress (aim of his DF). So to be a normal fortress, the height of the things has to be smaller for his body to be able to contain what a normal fortress contains ; and to have the normal effects/impacts of a normal fortress, the things have to retake a normal size. It is how I would explain the fortress ability to shrink.

But the questions is now, how does it work ?

For me, the ability to shrink is linked to the fortress as I already said. So, it is only an ability that works with a barrier limit as the one we have seen in the manga.
As I assume that this is a fortress DF (why he is able to have such a body because a normal body would not be able to be transformed in such a way (according to #)), he cannot controle the distance of the barrier limit ; otherwise, it would have nothing to do with a fortress DF, it would only be a shrinking DF. And again, he would not be possible to have such a body.
So, this must be a fortress DF.

We can assume that if people/things can come out of his fortress body, people/things can enter in his fortress body by the sames gates/opening we have seen in the manga. So, it would mean that normal objects created in the normal dimension can go into his body. And so do the living creatures (moreover, a normal fortress can make people enter and go out).
So, it is possible that the humans and the objects are coming from the normal dimension and stock in the fortress body : what is the normal aim of a fortress.

Now, if the fortress DF has the power to create the things a normal fortress have, the shrinking ability would not be necessary. It would be useful but not necessary because the things do not have to be able to enter in his body : indeed the fortress body would be able to create the things, so they would already be in his body. The only necessary thing would be to be able to make the fortress creations come out of his body, so thanks to gates. But by definition, the fortress body has already that. So, the shrinking ability would really not be necessary and the weapons/people only have to come out of his body, what could be possible.
So, they would not need to have a normal size with the barrier limit.
So, the shrinking barrier would not be necessary for the working of the DF.

So, the question is why he has a shrinking barrier ? As I first said, it is because it has to be the power of a normal fortress. But to have it, the things/living creatures must have in reality the size they have out of the DF's distance of influence (the barrier limit). Otherwise, it would not turn into a normal size out of his body's radious of influence.
If it turns in normal size out of the barrier limit, it is because it is their size by nature (##).
So, we can conclude of it (according to ##) 2 things :
- if the fortress DF can create things, it would be inside the fortress body and their size by nature would not be the required one they have out of the barrier limit. (*)
- as the things inside the fortress body must have by nature the size of the normal dimension (to have the size they have into the normal dimension), they must come from the normal dimension (**).

With (*) and (**), we have two fundamental laws that contradict the theory of a fortress body able to create what a fortress body normally contain.

Hope I'm now more clear in my ideas and that I have well explained my view of the nature of this DF power.

 

[Razh]

Re: The 11 Supernovas

There isn't really that much to discuss.

On these pages:
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/508/02/
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/508/03/
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/508/04/
http://www.onemanga.com/One_Piece/508/05/

we can see that the inside of Capone looks like a fortress and that those same gangsters that were beside him in the restaurant are manning the guns, talking with each other, riding horses and such. So, I don't think he creates them himself.
That would be too much.

But wouldn't it be cool if he had a crewman with DF? Someone with a nice paramecia that has a long range capabilities. Imagine the surprise attack.

 

[Akainu]

Re: The 11 Supernovas

if the range of the paramecia doesn't get downsized too, then it would be. otherwise there's not much sense behind having a fruit like kidd's or law's inside.

 

[Schabrak]

Re: The 11 Supernovas

Just like the canonball shrank, the power would increase to the effectness of it's natural size outside of Capone. He would just had to stand near the end of the fortress. He is'nt called firetank capone for no reason.^^

 

[Imitorar]

Re: The 11 Supernovas

Well, I still think that Capone's powers could go either way, but I'm starting to lean more toward the theory that says that he's a fortress who can shrink things to scale. It's not the argument that him being able to create soldiers would be too over-the-top that's swaying me, because I don't think that that affects the likelihood of him having it, and it would fit with what we've seen. It's the argument that if Capone can create the soldiers, then the shrinking and enlarging power seems to be tacked on, because he should just have an army of miniature soldiers. But I haven't abandoned that theory yet, I still think it'd be cooler, and I still think that him being able to create soldiers that grow to fit the rest of the world could be made to fit, but as I said, I lean toward the fortress only side now. I still consider him creating the soldiers to be a possibility, just not the most likely one.

 

[bittman]

I'm bumping this thread out of retirement for two discussion reasons:

1) Luffy has now charged through Impel Down, and people are currently charging through Marineford and we're still yet to see so much as the corner of Drake's ginormous chin. Where could they possibly be, and how will they be freed? Or even, will they ALL be freed (hint: Supernova -> new Shichibukai)

2) A lot of the Supernova's are really nothing more than the captains with inconsequential crews. After seeing Ace's flashback of merging with Whitebeard's crew, it got me thinking: will some of the Supernova's merge with each other / another powerful crew.

Anyway, two points for discussion, many many many possibilities for answers. Be a little imaginative here and predict something beyond the next chapter or how many years it took for Whitebeard to grow his mustache and abdominal muscles.

 

[toxun]

The chance the supernova to forge allience? I think they've personally deal with the trouble in the new world alone first , and the power their faced intended to get rid of them/deminish their influence, so they need to forge alliance. If the new power actually like the newbie potency, they might walk the path of once Ace had.

 

[ofir271]

its possible we will see some of the supernovas before the new world,but my guess is that they will apear after the war. we will probably see some crushed crews and understand how powerfull the enemies in this new world really are.
some of the crashed crews may join forces join other other supernovas or other crews.
about bonny i got a guess.she will join luffys crew after being the last surviver of her old crew. she seems to have a connection with zorro.the same apatite as luffy,and some brain(kicking zoro aside).if her crew will die she will have a huge motive to revenge them.

 

[Poneglyph420]

Of the supernovae Kidd and Law are clearly the two who will play the most profound effect on the SH in the NW. If they show up before the NW it will be a big shock. I'd love to see Bonney in the SH, but if she lost or loses her crew she might blame Zoro and the SH for causing the mess in the first place and hold a grudge, making them even more entangled. For sure some of the crews are already beaten and captured by Kizaru.. maybe 6-7 crews advance to the NW...

I'd also love to see Uroge (sp) join the Kidd pirates, and maybe see Law and Hawkins make some sort of alliance

 

[GeckoMoria]

i'd like to see the 4 that got supposedly captured by kizaru make a reappearance and bust out of where ever they are being kept as a temporary team.... law and kid will make their reappearance in the NW but only after getting stronger... luffy is slowly learning about haki maybe they are too? i hope at least so they can still compete in the NW. As for Bonney... i hope she dies.... or gets pwned cuase shes my least favorite :P lol. Anyway, maybe we'll see a supernova battle royal in the NW who knows...

 

[Dark God Zeus]

Drake, Urouge, Apoo, and Hawkins will all form a temporary alliance I think. These for don't really seem to have any clear form of hate for the other NW pirate crews. Furthermore, apart from Urouge they're all pretty level headed (based on the fact that he fought with Killer in the middle of the SA), and Urouge seems to be on the lower-eschelon of power among the Supernova, so he'd want to forge an alliance. I think the strawhats/rayleigh/Kuma's actions diverged the attention from them, so they were able to go and hide.

I have no doubt Bonney and Capone made it out of the SA quite easily without encountering much. Although this leads me to the question on if there are other ship coaters...they can't get to the NW without resin.

Law/Kidd will definetly play big roles in the future as antagonistic rivals (unlike a friendly rival, of course). Just the scene where Kidd says "It's been a pleasure to meet you, but if we meet again I won't be so merciful" and then it highlights those three with a long silence in the back.

Also, just a random theory. I think that maybe Urouge was a former priest of Skypia, and left to the blue sea just before enel came into power (out of fear). So if he learns Luffy beat Enel it could be funny. This way he can have more abilities like mantra.

 

[urlaub]

I think that the supernovas are held right now on the marine headguarters, because they are very likely not imprisoned in Impel Down. So basically if Luffy and co reach their place by accident, then they have another great boost of power, because their nakamas are also there in all certainty.

 

[Razh]

I like that idea but I'm not sure if Sengoku were stupid enough to leave such a security risk in the headquarters when he's preparing for battle with Whitebeard. We're talking about 500 pirates.
If this was Bleach, I'd be convinced that the Supernovas are there, but Oda doesn't hype up characters just so he could downgrade them few chapters later.

 

[urlaub]

Where else could they be? On a navy ship? In Shabondy? Yeah it would be a little stupid from Sengoku, if he imprisoned them there. But where could they be?

I think that Oda hasn't forgotten them yet.

 

[chess4]

well of the other 9 luffy has made 2 valuable allies in kidd and law.

 

[NoLimit89]

The way I see it is that Kidd is more of a rival than an ally. Luffy's crew would probably fight against Kidd's crew in the NW.

 

[Razh]

Where else could they be? On a navy ship? In Shabondy? Yeah it would be a little stupid from Sengoku, if he imprisoned them there. But where could they be?

I think that Oda hasn't forgotten them yet.

They could be in lot of places. Marineford is not the only Marine base, and Impel Down is not the only prison. I'm guessing that Marine bases aren't that rare near Red Line, and most of them probably have some jails.
But then again, it's questionable whether those other jails have enough security to hold that kind of prisoners, so they could still be in Marineford, at least part of them.
But Sengoku should know that this battle could easily spread through the entire city, not just the bay and the square and after that, anything would be possible.

There's no way to tell until we find out more, unfortunately.

 

[beastboy]

^
They're probably in grove 21 (I think thats the marine base) awaiting judgement.. cause they do judge the prisioners.. otherwise they wouldn't need a judicial island!